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Topic:  RE: Ohio OOC Schedule

Topic:  RE: Ohio OOC Schedule
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catfan28
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  Message Not Read  RE: Ohio OOC Schedule
   Posted: 7/13/2011 5:42:30 PM 
This is nothing like being an Auburn or O$U. At least theoretically, we are on the same level (Division I, FBS football) that they are.

Division III is, well, Division III. This is more like an MLB team playing a single A team. We play under different rules and have very different philosophies.

And there is no way that Marietta is better than many low DI teams. Schedule 10 exhibitions against those types of teams and Marietta MAYBE wins one game. Think of it this way: how many recruits do you see choosing Division III over Division I?

Last Edited: 7/13/2011 5:45:28 PM by catfan28
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MariettaCatFanatic
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  Message Not Read  RE: Ohio OOC Schedule
   Posted: 7/13/2011 7:16:53 PM 
BobcatBigFish wrote:
This is nothing like being an Auburn or O$U. At least theoretically, we are on the same level (Division I, FBS football) that they are.

Division III is, well, Division III. This is more like an MLB team playing a single A team. We play under different rules and have very different philosophies.

And there is no way that Marietta is better than many low DI teams. Schedule 10 exhibitions against those types of teams and Marietta MAYBE wins one game. Think of it this way: how many recruits do you see choosing Division III over Division I?



I used to think exactly the same way you did. In football, I totally agree. The difference between Division 1 and 3 is light years in difference. In basketball, I don't believe the gap is all that far from the bottom of Division 1 and top teams in D3. I watched A LOT of Division 3 basketball last year and came away very impressed by the overall quality of basketball played.

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brucecuth
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  Message Not Read  RE: Ohio OOC Schedule
   Posted: 7/13/2011 8:47:42 PM 
Actually, I wouldn't mind fewer non conference home games if it meant we'd play more quality, name brand opponents on the road.  that raises the bar, though.  you cannot constantly go into their gyms and let them kick you in the can.  you must consistently play close and win one once in a while, and maybe you get the rpi up a bit higher.   So let's go to Butler, let's go to Dayton, let's go to Xavier without requiring any return visit. hell, let's even go to  Cleveland State...we'd certainly get more out of that game than playing Marietta (and no disrespect, my dad was a Marietta alum).
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UpSan Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Ohio OOC Schedule
   Posted: 7/13/2011 10:03:08 PM 
BobcatBigFish wrote:
This is nothing like being an Auburn or O$U. At least theoretically, we are on the same level (Division I, FBS football) that they are.

Division III is, well, Division III. This is more like an MLB team playing a single A team. We play under different rules and have very different philosophies.

And there is no way that Marietta is better than many low DI teams. Schedule 10 exhibitions against those types of teams and Marietta MAYBE wins one game. Think of it this way: how many recruits do you see choosing Division III over Division I?



I don't think that's true. Division II Findlay defeated Ohio State in an exhibition game a few years ago. I know II and III are different (scholarships being the key). Ohio State was not a powerhouse that year, but Findlay was not a powerhouse D-II team either. They won the national championship last year, however. But it does show that the talent differential isn't that huge from one level to the next.

There are a fair number of athletes who pick a D-III school over a D-I school. One I know of is Greg Micheli, who led Mount Union football to the national championship game three times as quarterback (and he was the punter as a freshman). He got offers from FCS schools but passed on them because of Mount Union's tradition and because of academics. Every year, there are D-III players who get drafted into the NFL. It's rarer in the NBA, but there are very good D-III basketball players who certainly could play D-I.

And even if that weren't true, what's the difference if we play Marrietta or if we play Norfolk State? To me, we're likely to draw slightly better attendance by playing Marrietta and it won't hurt the RPI. There's a place on the schedule to go up against a team you're probably going to blow out, and to me, that's a best-case scenario for filling that kind of role on the schedule.

Now I do agree I'd like to see a slightly better overall schedule, but this one game in particular isn't the issue.
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Ohio OOC Schedule
   Posted: 7/13/2011 10:03:30 PM 
Gentleman Jim used to schedule Wooster College and the like . . . but he also regularly scheduled home games with Louisville, Loyola (Chicago), and various Big Ten teams.  It's a matter of balance.  I don't mind a good Marietta College team, but I do object to the totality of our schedule -- particularly the home schedule. 

For the Whippersnappers among us: Loyola was a powerhouse back in the day, and won the national championship (NCAA Tournament) once in the 1960s. 

Last Edited: 7/13/2011 10:04:57 PM by OhioCatFan

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Jeff McKinney
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  Message Not Read  RE: Ohio OOC Schedule
   Posted: 7/14/2011 11:33:48 AM 
But OCF, college basketball scheduling is light years different than it was during Coach Snyder's tenure.  There is very little grounds for comparison, IMO.  Money (television) plays a much great role today. 
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Jeff McKinney
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  Message Not Read  RE: Ohio OOC Schedule
   Posted: 7/14/2011 11:34:27 AM 
MariettaCatFanatic wrote:
BobcatBigFish wrote:
This is nothing like being an Auburn or O$U. At least theoretically, we are on the same level (Division I, FBS football) that they are.

Division III is, well, Division III. This is more like an MLB team playing a single A team. We play under different rules and have very different philosophies.

And there is no way that Marietta is better than many low DI teams. Schedule 10 exhibitions against those types of teams and Marietta MAYBE wins one game. Think of it this way: how many recruits do you see choosing Division III over Division I?



I used to think exactly the same way you did. In football, I totally agree. The difference between Division 1 and 3 is light years in difference. In basketball, I don't believe the gap is all that far from the bottom of Division 1 and top teams in D3. I watched A LOT of Division 3 basketball last year and came away very impressed by the overall quality of basketball played.


I love it.  We're gonna drive Ruck crazy this year! 
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JSF
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  Message Not Read  RE: Ohio OOC Schedule
   Posted: 7/14/2011 3:39:04 PM 
Jeff McKinney wrote:
But OCF, college basketball scheduling is light years different than it was during Coach Snyder's tenure.  There is very little grounds for comparison, IMO.  Money (television) plays a much great role today. 


Groce has to schedule in the space occupying the distance between a rock and a hard place while those two things are slowly coming together. It's almost a minor miracle we've been able to avoid playing schools like Marietta on a yearly basis.

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OUWoo
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  Message Not Read  RE: Ohio OOC Schedule
   Posted: 7/14/2011 4:42:05 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
Gentleman Jim used to schedule Wooster College and the like . . . but he also regularly scheduled home games with Louisville, Loyola (Chicago), and various Big Ten teams.  It's a matter of balance.  I don't mind a good Marietta College team, but I do object to the totality of our schedule -- particularly the home schedule. 

For the Whippersnappers among us: Loyola was a powerhouse back in the day, and won the national championship (NCAA Tournament) once in the 1960s. 


College of Wooster, people would kill you up here haha :)
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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: Ohio OOC Schedule
   Posted: 7/14/2011 9:34:46 PM 
JSF wrote:
Jeff McKinney wrote:
But OCF, college basketball scheduling is light years different than it was during Coach Snyder's tenure.  There is very little grounds for comparison, IMO.  Money (television) plays a much great role today. 


Groce has to schedule in the space occupying the distance between a rock and a hard place while those two things are slowly coming together. It's almost a minor miracle we've been able to avoid playing schools like Marietta on a yearly basis.


No, Jeff.  We should be able with ease to do whatever our fanbase desires, however rational or not the fanbase's expectations may be.

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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Ohio OOC Schedule
   Posted: 7/14/2011 11:36:04 PM 
Jeff McKinney wrote:
But OCF, college basketball scheduling is light years different than it was during Coach Snyder's tenure.  There is very little grounds for comparison, IMO.  Money (television) plays a much great role today. 


Believe it not Jeff, we actually had TV back then -- though it wasn't HiDef!

Ah yes, I knew it was the College of Wooster . . . sorry for the error. 

Monroe, as has been pointed out, other MAC teams are doing a better job at scheduling than we have been doing recently.  There is room for improvement by the folks in the Roundhouse on Richland.  And, I'm not saying that in a way that implies that I don't think improvement will come.  It's just too slow for my liking. 

Last Edited: 7/14/2011 11:36:58 PM by OhioCatFan

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Andrew Ruck
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  Message Not Read  RE: Ohio OOC Schedule
   Posted: 7/15/2011 1:21:58 PM 
Jeff McKinney wrote:
MariettaCatFanatic wrote:

In basketball, I don't believe the gap is all that far from the bottom of Division 1 and top teams in D3. I watched A LOT of Division 3 basketball last year and came away very impressed by the overall quality of basketball played.


I love it.  We're gonna drive Ruck crazy this year! 


Just because they play quality basketball doesn't mean they can beat us or other D1 teams.   Pretty much any kid that can get on a D1 roster goes that route...That means 3,000 kids were picked before these guys.  I know the top recruits don't always turn out to be the best players, but it is OK to admit that these teams are inferior and every D1 team should pound them and be disappointed if they don't.  Talking up the D3 opponent as if it would be acceptable to lose to them is not necessary...McKinney.

On the topic of "We have become what we hate"...I see what you are saying to a certain extent, but I think the great majority wants to see a good mix.  Like I proposed earlier in the thread, I would like to see our OOC schedule split up evenly by 3 categories, programs bigger/better...programs similiar...and programs smaller/worse. 

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OUVan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Ohio OOC Schedule
   Posted: 7/15/2011 1:52:59 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:

Monroe, as has been pointed out, other MAC teams are doing a better job at scheduling than we have been doing recently. 


Who?
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BattleCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Ohio OOC Schedule
   Posted: 7/15/2011 5:51:49 PM 
Andrew Ruck wrote:
Jeff McKinney wrote:
MariettaCatFanatic wrote:

In basketball, I don't believe the gap is all that far from the bottom of Division 1 and top teams in D3. I watched A LOT of Division 3 basketball last year and came away very impressed by the overall quality of basketball played.


I love it. We're gonna drive Ruck crazy this year!


Just because they play quality basketball doesn't mean they can beat us or other D1 teams. Pretty much any kid that can get on a D1 roster goes that route...That means 3,000 kids were picked before these guys. I know the top recruits don't always turn out to be the best players, but it is OK to admit that these teams are inferior and every D1 team should pound them and be disappointed if they don't. Talking up the D3 opponent as if it would be acceptable to lose to them is not necessary...McKinney.

On the topic of "We have become what we hate"...I see what you are saying to a certain extent, but I think the great majority wants to see a good mix. Like I proposed earlier in the thread, I would like to see our OOC schedule split up evenly by 3 categories, programs bigger/better...programs similiar...and programs smaller/worse.



You sir just effectively ended no less than TWO Jeff McKinney post next season about the strength of DIII teams.
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Jeff McKinney
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  Message Not Read  RE: Ohio OOC Schedule
   Posted: 7/16/2011 1:29:57 PM 
Well, I'll have to admit that there is a large gulf between Div. I and Div. III.  Wooster last season was in the Div. III Final Four, but I think we beat them by over 30 in an exhib. game. 

A very good Div. III team, however, could possibly beat one of the lesser teams in Div. I if they got some breaks.  But generally, Div. III teams cannot stay on the court with Div. I teams. 
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Andrew Ruck
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  Message Not Read  RE: Ohio OOC Schedule
   Posted: 7/18/2011 3:57:09 PM 
Jeff McKinney wrote:
But generally, Div. III teams cannot stay on the court with Div. I teams. 


Might have to make this quote my new signature...Make it last!

Andrew Ruck
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Bobcatbob
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  Message Not Read  RE: Ohio OOC Schedule
   Posted: 7/19/2011 4:38:02 PM 
Andrew Ruck wrote:
Jeff McKinney wrote:
But generally, Div. III teams cannot stay on the court with Div. I teams. 


Might have to make this quote my new signature...Make it last!


Please, no. As if there isn't already enough pressure for this to be a "must win", every chest thumping post in this thread turns up the heat a litlle more.
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Ohio OOC Schedule
   Posted: 7/20/2011 3:23:49 PM 
OUVan wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:

Monroe, as has been pointed out, other MAC teams are doing a better job at scheduling than we have been doing recently. 


Who?


Oxford Tech, for one.  And that's a crying shame.

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JSF
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  Message Not Read  RE: Ohio OOC Schedule
   Posted: 7/20/2011 4:23:49 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
OUVan wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:

Monroe, as has been pointed out, other MAC teams are doing a better job at scheduling than we have been doing recently. 


Who?


Oxford Tech, for one.  And that's a crying shame.


No. Miami arguably schedules worse than every other D-I school.

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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Ohio OOC Schedule
   Posted: 7/20/2011 11:27:24 PM 
Here's the most recent past schedule posted on their horrible not-up-to-date web site.  It's from 2009-10.  This is the worst OOC scheduling in the MAC?  In D-1? We better start looking in the mirror, before we cast stones like that.


Oxford, Ohio W, 82-65
11/08/09 vs. Saginaw Valley State ^ Oxford, Ohio W, 70-48
11/13/09 at Towson Towson, Md. L, 82-71
11/16/09 at Kentucky TV Lexington, Ky. L, 72-70
Basketball Travelers Tournament
11/20/09 vs. Louisiana Tech Albuquerque, N.M. L, 74-62
11/21/09 vs. Nicholls State Albuquerque, N.M. W, 69-58
11/22/09 at New Mexico Albuquerque, N.M. L, 85-60
11/28/09 vs. Evansville Oxford, Ohio W, 82-58
12/02/09 vs. Dayton TV Oxford, Ohio L, 65-58
12/08/09 vs. Temple Oxford, Ohio L, 64-42
12/10/09 at Cincinnati TV Cincinnati, Ohio (U.S. Bank Arena) L, 63-59
12/13/09 vs. Wright State Oxford, Ohio W, 56-55
12/19/09 at Milwaukee Milwaukee, Wis. L, 68-61
12/23/09 at Xavier TV Cincinnati, Ohio L, 70-67
01/05/10 at Colorado TV

Last Edited: 7/20/2011 11:29:08 PM by OhioCatFan

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OUVan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Ohio OOC Schedule
   Posted: 7/21/2011 10:58:04 AM 
OhioCatFan wrote:

Oxford Tech, for one.  And that's a crying shame.


They play a harder schedule to be sure but that doesn't make it better.  Getting walloped on the road doesn't do your players any good and it kills any kind of interest your fans have in the season.  That kind of schedule is fine if you have the team to compete in it but they never do.
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Ten Win Tim
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  Message Not Read  RE: Ohio OOC Schedule
   Posted: 7/21/2011 12:09:29 PM 
OUVan wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:

Oxford Tech, for one.  And that's a crying shame.


They play a harder schedule to be sure but that doesn't make it better.  Getting walloped on the road doesn't do your players any good and it kills any kind of interest your fans have in the season.  That kind of schedule is fine if you have the team to compete in it but they never do.


I have to agree. My point has been that the program should have Marshall, Duquense, West Virginia, Pitt and Ohio State on the basketball schedule yearly to convince local fans that we are a legit D1 program. After that if we want to play the little sisters of the poor at home it doesn't really matter. Miami already has Xavier, Dayton, UC, Wright State on the schedule. They are going overboard on the schedule with Kentucky, Colorado and New Mexico. There is no point of having the schedule too strong but this isn't football either where 2 extra wins makes a difference in getting into a bowl game. A similarly weak hoop schedule can't be justified especially when there are 12-14 non-con games these days. With such a large non-conference there is no reason why the program isn't playing at least 3 BCS schools a year on the schedule. If the program loses all 3 it doesn't really hurt anything but if the team can win 1 or 2 games that helps immensely with post season selection and seeding.

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catfan28
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  Message Not Read  RE: Ohio OOC Schedule
   Posted: 7/21/2011 1:32:19 PM 
The home games with Dayton, Xavier and UC are great. We could not get any of those schools to play in the Convo. But I agree, playing Duke, UCLA, or dare I say, Kansas, on the road is not what the MAC should be doing.
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Ten Win Tim
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  Message Not Read  RE: Ohio OOC Schedule
   Posted: 7/21/2011 2:15:28 PM 
BobcatBigFish wrote:
The home games with Dayton, Xavier and UC are great. We could not get any of those schools to play in the Convo. But I agree, playing Duke, UCLA, or dare I say, Kansas, on the road is not what the MAC should be doing.


Why play Duke, UCLA, or Kansas when you have in an 8 hour driving radius Indiana, Purdue, Ohio State, Pitt, Kentucky, Tennessee, Louisville, Maryland, Georgetown, Syracuse UVA, North Carolina. Playing 3 schools on the road at that level along with a prestigous preseason tourney would be good for the recruiting and the fans. Then play better to have solid mid majors at home through bracketbuster for 2 more quality names yearly.

Imagine if the schedule was Louisville, Georgetown, North Carolina, Marshall, Old Dominion(BB), Witchita State(BB), and then lets say in a tourney we play Santa Clara, Hawaii and USC. The other 5-6 games could be tune ups at home against low majors. The formula maybe is 3 regional BCS schools on the road, a pretigous tourney, Marshall, and good home and return bracketbuster opponents. This year we are looking at only 1 BCS school in Louisville, Marshall, and a medicore return bracketbuster game. Granted we are hurting ourselves even more by losing to low majors in the Convo but eitherway the schedule Is not strong enough. 

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colobobcat66
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  Message Not Read  RE: Ohio OOC Schedule
   Posted: 7/21/2011 7:02:20 PM 
OUVan wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:

Oxford Tech, for one.  And that's a crying shame.


They play a harder schedule to be sure but that doesn't make it better.  Getting walloped on the road doesn't do your players any good and it kills any kind of interest your fans have in the season.  That kind of schedule is fine if you have the team to compete in it but they never do.


I would suggest you look at the Miami results befor eyou start talking about getting walloped on the road.  Looks to me like that really only happened at New Mexico.  2 point loss to Kentucky in Lexington-a walloping?
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