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Topic:  Recruiting Bigs

Topic:  Recruiting Bigs
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  Recruiting Bigs
   Posted: 11/25/2024 2:56:34 PM 
In an attempt to get away from the hyperbole in the Fire Boals/Rock Bottom threads, thought I'd start a more specific discussion about an area of roster building everybody agrees is a challenge.

Boals and staff really seem to have struggled recruiting bigs. If you look at Boals recruits (and not guys he inherited) you see a very low success rate recruiting bigs. You've basically got Dwight Wilson & AJ Clayton (who, you know, probably isn't big enough) as Tier 1 guys. After that, things get bleak quickly and you struggle to find rotation players, let alone difference makers: Wiz, Sam Towns, Colin Granger, IJ, and Nolan Foster.

More recently, you have a few of incompletes with Searls, Evans, and Kuany. Searls is a big body, but hasn't really put a dent in our rebounding challenges. Neither Evans nor Kuany are likely to make an impact this year.

I'm very curious as to why folks think this is. The common refrain is that in the portal, decent bigs are expensive. And there's enough smoke there that I'm sure there's some fire, too. But what strikes me as very odd is that if you look over on the recruiting page, we basically don't offer true Centers out of high school, either: https://bobcatattack.com/messageboard/forum.asp?PID=4 . There are only a handful of bigs with offers, and they're basically all PFs. If the consensus is that we can't get bigs in the portal because they're too expensive, you'd think we'd be much harder after high school bigs. But that doesn't seem to be the case at all.

Anybody have the inside scoop? Are we recruiting bigs hard that aren't showing on the recruiting page? Is there a strategy/plan to actually fix the problem that anybody us aware of? Is it possible Boals doesn't want true 5s, and is trying to go small on-purpose?

Last Edited: 11/25/2024 3:03:01 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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FJC31
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  Message Not Read  RE: Recruiting Bigs
   Posted: 11/25/2024 3:08:37 PM 
I’ll copy and paste what I wrote in the game thread since it addresses this similarly. I’m sure the true center whiffs have factored, but it might come down to style of play. I’m not sure Boals and staff like the idea of a Jon Smith-type (defense/rebounding) if they cannot shoot the 3.

As someone who follows the portal closely, there have been plenty of bigs or guys who play big that could have helped us from all levels of college hoops. They just don’t have the offensive profile Boals seems to target so I think it’s less about cost and more style of play.

This isn’t an NIL hurdle, it’s bending on a lesser offensive profile/outside shooter that knows his role is cleaning up inside, defense, and rebounding.

This by no means has to be a true center. Smith (best example I have) was 6’6 but played like a center.

“This. At the end of the day, this is Boals ball and his roster. It's position-less with a heavy emphasis on 3PT shooting. Like SBH said, for better or worse.

I tend to lean towards the latter, since it's glaring we need guys in the paint who aren't the prototypical Boals player. Even Kuany and Evans who have size, also have the ability hit the 3. I'm not sure Boals is looking at a kid at this point if he can't to some extent.

Just look at our recruiting tab on here. There's only two total "bigs" on the first page we offered for 2025 in Scantlebury and Alan Gballou. Our current class consists of more (bigger) wings/guards. Mosley is the closest thing to potential post player by default given he's 6'7. That's it. Doesn't exactly solve anything for next season.

It's not an NIL issue, this how Boals prefers to build his roster. The Myles Fosters of the portal world cost a premium, but we don't need that. We need guys who man the paint, crash boards, and can be disruptive on defense. A slash of 5-6ppg, 5-8rpg, and 1-2bpg. You know why that doesn't cost $200K? Because that's currently our old friend Seth Towns. 6ppg/7rpg/1.5bpg.

Players with this skill-set are littered throughout the landscape from HS, JUCO, D2, and D3. I really just don't think Boals is looking at them because it's not his style. It's almost like he's trying to outsmart the basketball world with his position-less preference and 3pt shooting, while neglecting rebounding and physical play.

It reminds me a lot of Bengals and how Zac Taylor has built his team. The Bengals have been dubbed as a Pac12 team trying to play in Big10. All Finesse and no physicality. That's pretty much our brand of basketball.”

Last Edited: 11/25/2024 3:30:37 PM by FJC31
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Victory
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  Message Not Read  RE: Recruiting Bigs
   Posted: 11/25/2024 3:08:54 PM 
I'm sure that most centers out of high school don't come cheap either but are probably a little cheaper when less proven. I'd say that type of money is a risk that he is usually unwilling to take.
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M.D.W.S.T
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  Message Not Read  RE: Recruiting Bigs
   Posted: 11/25/2024 3:24:11 PM 
We recruited a pretty highly ranked big, he's just not getting minutes in the veteran front-court.

I keep saying it, but I think we need to force feed him minutes in these games that in all honesty are glorified scrimmages.
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FJC31
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  Message Not Read  RE: Recruiting Bigs
   Posted: 11/25/2024 3:32:45 PM 
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
We recruited a pretty highly ranked big, he's just not getting minutes in the veteran front-court.

I keep saying it, but I think we need to force feed him minutes in these games that in all honesty are glorified scrimmages.


This + we have a 6’7 forward who apparently still isn’t good enough to even rebound after a redshirting year.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Recruiting Bigs
   Posted: 11/25/2024 3:34:28 PM 
FJC31 wrote:
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
We recruited a pretty highly ranked big, he's just not getting minutes in the veteran front-court.

I keep saying it, but I think we need to force feed him minutes in these games that in all honesty are glorified scrimmages.


This + we have a 6’7 forward who apparently still isn’t good enough to even rebound after a redshirting year.


Is he a big? I've always thought of him as basically a long wing.


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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Recruiting Bigs
   Posted: 11/25/2024 3:35:07 PM 
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
We recruited a pretty highly ranked big, he's just not getting minutes in the veteran front-court.

I keep saying it, but I think we need to force feed him minutes in these games that in all honesty are glorified scrimmages.


Is there any reason to think Boals wouldn't be giving him minutes if he was the best option?
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Recruiting Bigs
   Posted: 11/25/2024 4:03:07 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
In an attempt to get away from the hyperbole in the Fire Boals/Rock Bottom threads, thought I'd start a more specific discussion about an area of roster building everybody agrees is a challenge.

Boals and staff really seem to have struggled recruiting bigs. If you look at Boals recruits (and not guys he inherited) you see a very low success rate recruiting bigs. You've basically got Dwight Wilson & AJ Clayton (who, you know, probably isn't big enough) as Tier 1 guys. After that, things get bleak quickly and you struggle to find rotation players, let alone difference makers: Wiz, Sam Towns, Colin Granger, IJ, and Nolan Foster.

More recently, you have a few of incompletes with Searls, Evans, and Kuany. Searls is a big body, but hasn't really put a dent in our rebounding challenges. Neither Evans nor Kuany are likely to make an impact this year.

I'm very curious as to why folks think this is. The common refrain is that in the portal, decent bigs are expensive. And there's enough smoke there that I'm sure there's some fire, too. But what strikes me as very odd is that if you look over on the recruiting page, we basically don't offer true Centers out of high school, either: https://bobcatattack.com/messageboard/forum.asp?PID=4 . There are only a handful of bigs with offers, and they're basically all PFs. If the consensus is that we can't get bigs in the portal because they're too expensive, you'd think we'd be much harder after high school bigs. But that doesn't seem to be the case at all.

Anybody have the inside scoop? Are we recruiting bigs hard that aren't showing on the recruiting page? Is there a strategy/plan to actually fix the problem that anybody us aware of? Is it possible Boals doesn't want true 5s, and is trying to go small on-purpose?


Clayton was not recruited as a BIG, he’s just big, and didn’t play it in HS. True centers are costin 6 figures. Money we don’t have.
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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  RE: Recruiting Bigs
   Posted: 11/25/2024 4:21:30 PM 
FJC31 wrote:
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
We recruited a pretty highly ranked big, he's just not getting minutes in the veteran front-court.

I keep saying it, but I think we need to force feed him minutes in these games that in all honesty are glorified scrimmages.


This + we have a 6’7 forward who apparently still isn’t good enough to even rebound after a redshirting year.


The development of Benny N is a disappointment. If Benny N can't get on the floor in these seven games....then when????? He could be punching his ticket to USC Aiken next year.

Last Edited: 11/25/2024 4:23:27 PM by FearLeon

#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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100%Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Recruiting Bigs
   Posted: 11/25/2024 4:31:01 PM 
FearLeon wrote:
FJC31 wrote:
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
We recruited a pretty highly ranked big, he's just not getting minutes in the veteran front-court.

I keep saying it, but I think we need to force feed him minutes in these games that in all honesty are glorified scrimmages.


This + we have a 6’7 forward who apparently still isn’t good enough to even rebound after a redshirting year.


The development of Benny N is a disappointment. If Benny N can't get on the floor in these seven games....then when????? He could be punching his ticket to USC Aiken next year.


I was really hoping he could end up as a larger/longer version of a Travis Wilkins type. Low volume/high percentage shooter. Time will tell, but I'm really surprised/disappointed he hasn't seen floor time yet this season.
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FJC31
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  Message Not Read  RE: Recruiting Bigs
   Posted: 11/25/2024 5:53:30 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
FJC31 wrote:
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
We recruited a pretty highly ranked big, he's just not getting minutes in the veteran front-court.

I keep saying it, but I think we need to force feed him minutes in these games that in all honesty are glorified scrimmages.


This + we have a 6’7 forward who apparently still isn’t good enough to even rebound after a redshirting year.


Is he a big? I've always thought of him as basically a long wing.




He’s just a bigger body. Figured he’d be able to help in come capacity this year coming into the season.
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OUcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Recruiting Bigs
   Posted: 11/25/2024 5:59:55 PM 
FJC31 wrote:
I’ll copy and paste what I wrote in the game thread since it addresses this similarly. I’m sure the true center whiffs have factored, but it might come down to style of play. I’m not sure Boals and staff like the idea of a Jon Smith-type (defense/rebounding) if they cannot shoot the 3.

As someone who follows the portal closely, there have been plenty of bigs or guys who play big that could have helped us from all levels of college hoops. They just don’t have the offensive profile Boals seems to target so I think it’s less about cost and more style of play.

This isn’t an NIL hurdle, it’s bending on a lesser offensive profile/outside shooter that knows his role is cleaning up inside, defense, and rebounding.

This by no means has to be a true center. Smith (best example I have) was 6’6 but played like a center.

“This. At the end of the day, this is Boals ball and his roster. It's position-less with a heavy emphasis on 3PT shooting. Like SBH said, for better or worse.

I tend to lean towards the latter, since it's glaring we need guys in the paint who aren't the prototypical Boals player. Even Kuany and Evans who have size, also have the ability hit the 3. I'm not sure Boals is looking at a kid at this point if he can't to some extent.

Just look at our recruiting tab on here. There's only two total "bigs" on the first page we offered for 2025 in Scantlebury and Alan Gballou. Our current class consists of more (bigger) wings/guards. Mosley is the closest thing to potential post player by default given he's 6'7. That's it. Doesn't exactly solve anything for next season.

It's not an NIL issue, this how Boals prefers to build his roster. The Myles Fosters of the portal world cost a premium, but we don't need that. We need guys who man the paint, crash boards, and can be disruptive on defense. A slash of 5-6ppg, 5-8rpg, and 1-2bpg. You know why that doesn't cost $200K? Because that's currently our old friend Seth Towns. 6ppg/7rpg/1.5bpg.

Players with this skill-set are littered throughout the landscape from HS, JUCO, D2, and D3. I really just don't think Boals is looking at them because it's not his style. It's almost like he's trying to outsmart the basketball world with his position-less preference and 3pt shooting, while neglecting rebounding and physical play.

It reminds me a lot of Bengals and how Zac Taylor has built his team. The Bengals have been dubbed as a Pac12 team trying to play in Big10. All Finesse and no physicality. That's pretty much our brand of basketball.”




I'm old school when it comes to this stuff: A post man should play in the post. I understand why mids want the 'stretch 4' guy playing in the post. But to me that does two negative things. 1) You have no post presence, especially vs. P5s that demand a defender stays close to the basket. And 2) for all a 'stretch 4' post guy may give you in terms of 3-point shooting, those guys are rarely quality rebounders, rarely get opposing post guys in foul trouble and rarely go to the line.

Making a couple 3-pointers a game from these guys, in my mind, is fools gold. That said, finding a true 6-9 or bigger post player with the girth to hold his own inside is a true unicorn at this level. But there are some big-butt 6-7 types who could serve the same purpose, and I think those guys are being under-recruited because they don't ... 'stretch the floor.'

Let the guards and wings shoot the 3-pointers. Find a guy who likes to work on the block and gets the four-point play (basket, free throw, opponent foul) should not be a lost art, but it is fast becoming so and I just don't understand it.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Recruiting Bigs
   Posted: 11/25/2024 6:10:18 PM 
Are we sure Boals is only targeting bigs who can stretch the floor? We've had plenty pass through the program that couldn't stretch the floor (DWIII, Wiz, and basically everybody else not named Clayton).

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Recruiting Bigs
   Posted: 11/25/2024 6:13:24 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:


Clayton was not recruited as a BIG, he’s just big, and didn’t play it in HS. True centers are costin 6 figures. Money we don’t have.


Not really sure how to interpret this given my post. Are you saying we're no longer trying to recruit 5s because they all cost 100k?
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Recruiting Bigs
   Posted: 11/25/2024 9:22:29 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:


Clayton was not recruited as a BIG, he’s just big, and didn’t play it in HS. True centers are costin 6 figures. Money we don’t have.


Not really sure how to interpret this given my post. Are you saying we're no longer trying to recruit 5s because they all cost 100k?


No, I’m saying Clayton was not recruited as a post.

And we are trying to recruit a traditional style BIG. We just lose out on the financial. I mean we have to have gold outings to raise money as it is, not like our programs are flush with cash.
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M.D.W.S.T
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  Message Not Read  RE: Recruiting Bigs
   Posted: 11/25/2024 10:41:37 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
M.D.W.S.T wrote:
We recruited a pretty highly ranked big, he's just not getting minutes in the veteran front-court.

I keep saying it, but I think we need to force feed him minutes in these games that in all honesty are glorified scrimmages.


Is there any reason to think Boals wouldn't be giving him minutes if he was the best option?


Rewarding veterans with playing time? Lack of confidence in freshman philosophically?

I suspect he doesn’t look as good in practice as a couple 23/24 year olds, that’s why we should hit fast forward a bit in these early games.
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FormerMember
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  Message Not Read  RE: Recruiting Bigs
   Posted: 11/26/2024 9:41:08 AM 
FJC31 wrote:
It's not an NIL issue, this how Boals prefers to build his roster. The Myles Fosters of the portal world cost a premium, but we don't need that. We need guys who man the paint, crash boards, and can be disruptive on defense. A slash of 5-6ppg, 5-8rpg, and 1-2bpg. You know why that doesn't cost $200K? Because that's currently our old friend Seth Towns. 6ppg/7rpg/1.5bpg.

Players with this skill-set are littered throughout the landscape from HS, JUCO, D2, and D3. I really just don't think Boals is looking at them because it's not his style. It's almost like he's trying to outsmart the basketball world with his position-less preference and 3pt shooting, while neglecting rebounding and physical play.


As in most things in life, there's a middle ground to this. It's not entirely NIL related as we've seen solid bigs at other mid-majors in similar situations to us financially but it definitely plays a role.

A player like Sam Towns went to Bowling Green because he wasn't satisfied with his role at Ohio. Do you think he enjoys scoring 6 ppg/7 rpg at BGSU? He's probably happier than he was at OU but he was definitely hoping to contribute more at BG than he has.

Could we use that type of player at Ohio? Absolutely but also realize that we had a log jam at the top of our roster with Clayton/Hadaway, a talented 3 star forward commit and a guard oriented roster. How many players are going to commit to a mid-major for lesser money for a role they'll have to earn and compete for. In hindsight, it's easy to see we lack at forward but Boals was probably banking on continued growth by Hadaway and Searls stepping up.

The athletes now want guaranteed money and playing time. Is Boals falling short in his efforts to recruit better forwards? Yes, but that's also why he switched from heavily targeting the portal to targeting Evans/Kuany last year.

We have a pair of young bigs with a bunch of potential. They're just not ready yet based on what Boals is seeing in practice. Forwards take more time to develop and unfortunately, when you're a team with high expectations that's underachieving, it's hard to be patient.

Last Edited: 11/26/2024 10:02:42 AM by FormerMember
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Recruiting Bigs
   Posted: 11/26/2024 1:06:04 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:


No, I’m saying Clayton was not recruited as a post.

And we are trying to recruit a traditional style BIG. We just lose out on the financial. I mean we have to have gold outings to raise money as it is, not like our programs are flush with cash.


Oh, okay. On the recruiting page, we do not seem to be in on many 5s. I see we offered the French PF, lost a PF to Penn, and have offers to a couple of class of 2027 PFs.

But in terms of Centers, we lost one 2024 offer to NIU and have one offer oou in the class of 2026. We do not seem to be recruiting true 5s at nearly the volume I'd expect given the current roster construction.
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FormerMember
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  Message Not Read  RE: Recruiting Bigs
   Posted: 11/26/2024 1:35:25 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:


No, I’m saying Clayton was not recruited as a post.

And we are trying to recruit a traditional style BIG. We just lose out on the financial. I mean we have to have gold outings to raise money as it is, not like our programs are flush with cash.


Oh, okay. On the recruiting page, we do not seem to be in on many 5s. I see we offered the French PF, lost a PF to Penn, and have offers to a couple of class of 2027 PFs.

But in terms of Centers, we lost one 2024 offer to NIU and have one offer oou in the class of 2026. We do not seem to be recruiting true 5s at nearly the volume I'd expect given the current roster construction.


To be fair, true centers are a dying breed in basketball regardless of the level.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Recruiting Bigs
   Posted: 11/26/2024 1:55:38 PM 
FormerMember wrote:


To be fair, true centers are a dying breed in basketball regardless of the level.


I'm not really sure that's true. They just have to be more mobile, and there's now a strong preference that they can shoot a bit. But everybody at every level wants rim protection and rebounding.
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FormerMember
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  Message Not Read  RE: Recruiting Bigs
   Posted: 11/26/2024 2:49:24 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
FormerMember wrote:


To be fair, true centers are a dying breed in basketball regardless of the level.


I'm not really sure that's true. They just have to be more mobile, and there's now a strong preference that they can shoot a bit. But everybody at every level wants rim protection and rebounding.


I agree with your point about mobility and shooting but you often lose rim protection and rebounding when young players are more focused on those skills than being tough down low. Maybe what Boals needs to do is sacrifice shooting/extending the floor in favor of getting bruisers in the paint on both sides of the court.

You can't reach the NBA by being exclusively a back to the basket kind of player. Young players model their game off the people at the top. Everyone is trying to stretch the floor and wants to put up shots from deep.

That's why Boals recruits the way he does. Clayton/Evans/Hadaway are all in that mold because that's what young players want to be and they were all 3 star recruits for that reason.

Sure, you can still find traditional centers but there's not a ton of them out there and the ones available at the mid-major level are typically raw and need more time to develop. Wiz was once high regarded. The miss rate on centers at our level is really high.

A lot of players that do extend the court typically aren't as solid down low. A big reason why coaches recruit the better shooting forwards is because they're more skilled and have higher upside than a lot of players than can only succeed near the hoop.

We definitely need more balance in that regard but would you rather recruit lesser players just because they're marginally better in the paint? What Boals needs to do better is develop his big men better and develop a tougher mentality down low. It doesn't need to just be fixed by recruiting. Coaching plays a role too.

Last Edited: 11/26/2024 3:04:02 PM by FormerMember
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Recruiting Bigs
   Posted: 11/26/2024 3:24:39 PM 
FormerMember wrote:


I agree with your point about mobility and shooting but you often lose rim protection and rebounding when young players are more focused on those skills than being tough down low. Maybe what Boals needs to do is sacrifice shooting/extending the floor in favor of getting bruisers in the paint on both sides of the court.

You can't reach the NBA by being exclusively a back to the basket kind of player. Young players model their game off the people at the top. Everyone is trying to stretch the floor and wants to put up shots from deep.

That's why Boals recruits the way he does. Clayton/Evans/Hadaway are all in that mold because that's what young players want to be and they were all 3 star recruits for that reason.


You're the second person to suggest that Evans is in that mold. Is he a shooter? I just watched as many highlight videos as I could find, and none of them involved touches outside. They're just short clips from last year though, and may not be comprehensive. I would have thought Evans' best case is more of a Jon Smith/Flomo type. Not a big body, but long enough to rebound and change shots.


FormerMember wrote:

Sure, you can still find traditional centers but there's not a ton of them out there and the ones available at the mid-major level are typically raw and need more time to develop. Wiz was once high regarded. The miss rate on centers at our level is really high.


This is definitely true. Agree with you here. A guy who is 6'11 is basically a top 100 recruit, and it means nothing.

What I'd like to see is more big bodies, even if those bodies aren't that tall. Texas State wasn't a tall team, but they were much stronger than us. I think we're going to continue to struggle despite our talent for basically as long as we all have to pretend that Aiden Hadaway is a "big." He was a wing in high school and recruited as a wing. He's not quite skilled enough as a wing, so we have him playing up a position.

FormerMember wrote:

We definitely need more balance in that regard but would you rather recruit lesser players just because they're marginally better in the paint? What Boals needs to do better is develop his big men better and develop a tougher mentality down low. It doesn't need to just be fixed by recruiting. Coaching plays a role too.


It feels like a false premise to suggest that my stance is we need to recruit lesser players. But we seem to consistently load up on wings and guards, and plenty of them don't hit. Last year, Cornish was basically a wasted roster spot. Ben Nicol hasn't played a minute. Burris is injured, but in that same wing mold. Our recruiting class next year includes two small forwards and two shooting guards.

I get we're not gonna get the 7 footer unless he's a project. But we need more strength. It doesn't have to be a blue chip guy, and he doesn't have to be particularly talented. But somebody who can protect the paint and rebound at this point's far preferable to another 6'7 (in recruiting world, but actually 6'4) wing who is 180lbs.

The team has had the exact same deficit for 2 seasons now. Just hoping Boals acknowledges that, and this isn't just a symptom of Boals ball.

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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  RE: Recruiting Bigs
   Posted: 11/26/2024 5:12:23 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
FormerMember wrote:


I agree with your point about mobility and shooting but you often lose rim protection and rebounding when young players are more focused on those skills than being tough down low. Maybe what Boals needs to do is sacrifice shooting/extending the floor in favor of getting bruisers in the paint on both sides of the court.

You can't reach the NBA by being exclusively a back to the basket kind of player. Young players model their game off the people at the top. Everyone is trying to stretch the floor and wants to put up shots from deep.

That's why Boals recruits the way he does. Clayton/Evans/Hadaway are all in that mold because that's what young players want to be and they were all 3 star recruits for that reason.


You're the second person to suggest that Evans is in that mold. Is he a shooter? I just watched as many highlight videos as I could find, and none of them involved touches outside. They're just short clips from last year though, and may not be comprehensive. I would have thought Evans' best case is more of a Jon Smith/Flomo type. Not a big body, but long enough to rebound and change shots.


FormerMember wrote:

Sure, you can still find traditional centers but there's not a ton of them out there and the ones available at the mid-major level are typically raw and need more time to develop. Wiz was once high regarded. The miss rate on centers at our level is really high.


This is definitely true. Agree with you here. A guy who is 6'11 is basically a top 100 recruit, and it means nothing.

What I'd like to see is more big bodies, even if those bodies aren't that tall. Texas State wasn't a tall team, but they were much stronger than us. I think we're going to continue to struggle despite our talent for basically as long as we all have to pretend that Aiden Hadaway is a "big." He was a wing in high school and recruited as a wing. He's not quite skilled enough as a wing, so we have him playing up a position.

FormerMember wrote:

We definitely need more balance in that regard but would you rather recruit lesser players just because they're marginally better in the paint? What Boals needs to do better is develop his big men better and develop a tougher mentality down low. It doesn't need to just be fixed by recruiting. Coaching plays a role too.


It feels like a false premise to suggest that my stance is we need to recruit lesser players. But we seem to consistently load up on wings and guards, and plenty of them don't hit. Last year, Cornish was basically a wasted roster spot. Ben Nicol hasn't played a minute. Burris is injured, but in that same wing mold. Our recruiting class next year includes two small forwards and two shooting guards.

I get we're not gonna get the 7 footer unless he's a project. But we need more strength. It doesn't have to be a blue chip guy, and he doesn't have to be particularly talented. But somebody who can protect the paint and rebound at this point's far preferable to another 6'7 (in recruiting world, but actually 6'4) wing who is 180lbs.

The team has had the exact same deficit for 2 seasons now. Just hoping Boals acknowledges that, and this isn't just a symptom of Boals ball.



Extremely well thought out analysis of the current lack of "bigs" problem with this program.

Last Edited: 11/26/2024 5:13:32 PM by FearLeon

#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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FJC31
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  Message Not Read  RE: Recruiting Bigs
   Posted: 11/26/2024 8:44:43 PM 
FormerMember wrote:
FJC31 wrote:
It's not an NIL issue, this how Boals prefers to build his roster. The Myles Fosters of the portal world cost a premium, but we don't need that. We need guys who man the paint, crash boards, and can be disruptive on defense. A slash of 5-6ppg, 5-8rpg, and 1-2bpg. You know why that doesn't cost $200K? Because that's currently our old friend Seth Towns. 6ppg/7rpg/1.5bpg.

Players with this skill-set are littered throughout the landscape from HS, JUCO, D2, and D3. I really just don't think Boals is looking at them because it's not his style. It's almost like he's trying to outsmart the basketball world with his position-less preference and 3pt shooting, while neglecting rebounding and physical play.


As in most things in life, there's a middle ground to this. It's not entirely NIL related as we've seen solid bigs at other mid-majors in similar situations to us financially but it definitely plays a role.

A player like Sam Towns went to Bowling Green because he wasn't satisfied with his role at Ohio. Do you think he enjoys scoring 6 ppg/7 rpg at BGSU? He's probably happier than he was at OU but he was definitely hoping to contribute more at BG than he has.

Could we use that type of player at Ohio? Absolutely but also realize that we had a log jam at the top of our roster with Clayton/Hadaway, a talented 3 star forward commit and a guard oriented roster. How many players are going to commit to a mid-major for lesser money for a role they'll have to earn and compete for. In hindsight, it's easy to see we lack at forward but Boals was probably banking on continued growth by Hadaway and Searls stepping up.

The athletes now want guaranteed money and playing time. Is Boals falling short in his efforts to recruit better forwards? Yes, but that's also why he switched from heavily targeting the portal to targeting Evans/Kuany last year.

We have a pair of young bigs with a bunch of potential. They're just not ready yet based on what Boals is seeing in practice. Forwards take more time to develop and unfortunately, when you're a team with high expectations that's underachieving, it's hard to be patient.



I’m not sure how to answer whether or not Towns is happy with his current statistical production — that’s on him and his ability. However, he’s putting up those numbers playing 28mpg. So, I’m sure he’s content with his role.

It’s wild to suggest that players at the HS, JUCO, D2, and D3 levels wouldn’t commit to a mid-major because they’d have to earn playing time. Searls and Evans are just that.

If competing for playing time is such an issue, why are so many guards/wings committing to us?

I’m with BLSS that finding guys who can play big isn’t a direct correlation of recruiting lesser players. It’s a choice of roster build and style.

We’ve both referred to Jon Smith as a profile example. These types aren’t lesser players nor are they impossible to land, but necessary to balance out a team relying heavily on 3PT shooting and playing smaller.

The potential of both Evans and Kuany is intriguing, sure. However, I expect Boals to know his roster well enough to determine if it makes sense to prioritize future potential over immediate need, or find a happy medium of both.
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FormerMember
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Member Since: 1/7/2022
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  Message Not Read  RE: Recruiting Bigs
   Posted: 11/27/2024 2:10:59 AM 
FJC31 wrote:
FormerMember wrote:
FJC31 wrote:
It's not an NIL issue, this how Boals prefers to build his roster. The Myles Fosters of the portal world cost a premium, but we don't need that. We need guys who man the paint, crash boards, and can be disruptive on defense. A slash of 5-6ppg, 5-8rpg, and 1-2bpg. You know why that doesn't cost $200K? Because that's currently our old friend Seth Towns. 6ppg/7rpg/1.5bpg.

Players with this skill-set are littered throughout the landscape from HS, JUCO, D2, and D3. I really just don't think Boals is looking at them because it's not his style. It's almost like he's trying to outsmart the basketball world with his position-less preference and 3pt shooting, while neglecting rebounding and physical play.


As in most things in life, there's a middle ground to this. It's not entirely NIL related as we've seen solid bigs at other mid-majors in similar situations to us financially but it definitely plays a role.

A player like Sam Towns went to Bowling Green because he wasn't satisfied with his role at Ohio. Do you think he enjoys scoring 6 ppg/7 rpg at BGSU? He's probably happier than he was at OU but he was definitely hoping to contribute more at BG than he has.

Could we use that type of player at Ohio? Absolutely but also realize that we had a log jam at the top of our roster with Clayton/Hadaway, a talented 3 star forward commit and a guard oriented roster. How many players are going to commit to a mid-major for lesser money for a role they'll have to earn and compete for. In hindsight, it's easy to see we lack at forward but Boals was probably banking on continued growth by Hadaway and Searls stepping up.

The athletes now want guaranteed money and playing time. Is Boals falling short in his efforts to recruit better forwards? Yes, but that's also why he switched from heavily targeting the portal to targeting Evans/Kuany last year.

We have a pair of young bigs with a bunch of potential. They're just not ready yet based on what Boals is seeing in practice. Forwards take more time to develop and unfortunately, when you're a team with high expectations that's underachieving, it's hard to be patient.



I’m not sure how to answer whether or not Towns is happy with his current statistical production — that’s on him and his ability. However, he’s putting up those numbers playing 28mpg. So, I’m sure he’s content with his role.

It’s wild to suggest that players at the HS, JUCO, D2, and D3 levels wouldn’t commit to a mid-major because they’d have to earn playing time. Searls and Evans are just that.

If competing for playing time is such an issue, why are so many guards/wings committing to us?

I’m with BLSS that finding guys who can play big isn’t a direct correlation of recruiting lesser players. It’s a choice of roster build and style.

We’ve both referred to Jon Smith as a profile example. These types aren’t lesser players nor are they impossible to land, but necessary to balance out a team relying heavily on 3PT shooting and playing smaller.

The potential of both Evans and Kuany is intriguing, sure. However, I expect Boals to know his roster well enough to determine if it makes sense to prioritize future potential over immediate need, or find a happy medium of both.


It comes down to whether you believe Boals is stubborn and not targeting those type of bigs or if he's been unable to attract them to come to Ohio.

I'm certain that Boals realizes the current configuration of the roster is lacking when it comes to forwards. That's why I think he's had legitimate issues recruiting big men because I choose to believe he's not blind to the problems we've had down low the past few years.

Just because Jon Smith types don't put up big numbers doesn't mean they're easy to recruit to schools like Ohio either. The reasons I say the things I say about the recruiting aspect is because I've had three D1 head coaches reiterate that to me multiple times over the past year.

Last Edited: 11/27/2024 2:12:00 AM by FormerMember
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