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Topic: Gotta give them a pass

Topic: Gotta give them a pass

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FlashGary
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Gotta give them a pass

Posted: 3/15/2025 6:07:30 PM

Well, a season with such promise went down in flames. Granted the team was flawed in an area or two, but I truly believe they could have/would have been in the MAC title game if the season hadn't been sabotaged by injuries. So I'm giving them a pass. Yes, injuries are a part of the game. But to lose four starters--Mitchell, Clayton, Hadaway, Brown--for extended periods of time is a lot to overcome. This shows the importance of bringing in freshmen who can contribute something in their first season. If sophomores can't contribute, we recruited the wrong guys. Program-building has taken on a new dimension with teams able to literally go from last to first if they hit the jackpot in the portal. Sooo, looking ahead, I think we'll be fine next year, IF... We should/can lose two players to the portal as long as Hadaway stays. If he leaves, that creates a huge problem. We must get an experienced center, at least 6-9/6-10 with length, who is a rim protector. We need a second center with length as a reserve; this guy can be a high-schooler we'd look to develop as long as he's capable of playing some meaningful minutes. Do that, then let's run it back!!!

Last Edited: 3/15/2025 6:10:35 PM by FlashGary

FearLeon
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RE: Gotta give them a pass

Posted: 3/16/2025 8:59:44 AM

FlashGary wrote:

Injuries happen to all teams. Yes, it hit us harder than most in the conference. The one guy we couldn�t afford to lose at any point this year was Captain Chaos. It was a position where Boals failed to have depth with his roster construction. I find it hard to believe that anyone on this coaching staff felt Evans could give this team 10-15 minutes per game his freshman year when they signed him. The inability of Ben Nicol not being ready to play as a redshirt sophomore was atrocious and hurt this team�s depth immensely when the injuries piled up.

Boals mismanaged the roster construction and if he hasn�t learned anything from the last two years, then he should be feeling the seat getting warm. He�s the highest paid coach in the league and the results after six seasons don�t warrant the salary. 11-1 Tod K is his daddy�Groce (aka Mr. March) is in another stratosphere�and Steele has resurrected Miami hoops and they are a massive problem moving forward. There should be a clause in Boals contract if he doesn�t get out of the MAC Quaterfinals he gives back 100k to the 1804 NIL collective. We know that will never happen.

It�s onto portal season. There should be at least three current players on scholarship looking for a fresh start elsewhere. At least I hope so. If not, Boals needs to lead them there immediately. The world of college athletics sucks and these are now one-year contracts. A team can go from worst to first with a total roster reconstruction overhaul through the portal. This staff has a lot of work to do.

Fully ready to never discuss the 2024-2025 season again.

Last Edited: 3/19/2025 6:14:20 PM by FearLeon

#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

BobcatSports
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Member Since: 2/2/2006
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RE: Gotta give them a pass

Posted: 3/16/2025 11:08:55 AM

I�m afraid Fear that this staff appears to look no further than Reynoldsburg for able bodies. I think the announcers in last night�s MAC championship game were touting Groce�s ability to construct a roster recruiting the whole state of Ohio. Just sayin!

Victory
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RE: Gotta give them a pass

Posted: 3/16/2025 1:05:46 PM

The whole though process, "next man up", in actual evaluation of a season drive me nuts. Sure, coaches, MUST say that to keep a team playing as hard as it can. But no sane GM or AD is going to think like that. Injuries matter and are often just bad luck. I think after a very unlucky start injury wise, our football team got very lucky injury wise over the last 8 or 9 games and that was part of the reason why we finally got a MACC.

There is no doubt that this team was hurt by injuries more that most. But this was a flawed team to begin with. It was never going 26-6 with the best of injury luck. The lack of size everywhere was a problem. I don't look as this team where they were probably in the 95th percentile in terms of injuries like has happened to the women several times recently. This was probably more like a 80th percentile injury season and that was far from the whole story on the disappointment

bobcat 2000
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RE: Gotta give them a pass

Posted: 3/16/2025 5:24:21 PM

travis steele might be the next charlie coles for miami. we certainly need to st6art recruiting bigger stronger players. we also need to our current players into a year round routine of strength and conditioning in the weight room too.

OUcat
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RE: Gotta give them a pass

Posted: 3/16/2025 6:37:00 PM

bobcat 2000 wrote:

If I were to Tier MAC Programs going into 2025-26:

Tier 1

Akron
Miami
Umass???

Tier 3
Ohio
Toledo
Kent
EMU???

Tier 4
WMU
CMU
BSU
BG

Tier 5
NIU
Buffalo

Note: There is no Tier 2 because all the Tier 1 teams are putting quality $$$ into their NIL/Programs and the rest of the MAC is not.

Tier 3 teams all have quality coaches (EMU???) who can get more out of less, but in the long haul likely can't match Tier 1 teams when it counts (MAC Tournament).

Tier 4 and Tier 5 teams are either coach and/or talent deficient, or (CMU) more of a travel/AAU team with talent than a MAC team.

Tier 3 teams can get lucky with a Portal recruit from time to time, but it will be short-lived and hard to replicate regularly.

To be a Tier 1 team you must (A) have a proven program with a proven identity (B) have at least MAC-Average NIL, (C) have a proven head coach and (D) be true to 'A' no matter what the rest of the league does.

That's my opinion.

I remember back when almost all the MAC was caught up in the 'motion offense' craze. Every game looked the same. But the MAC changed for the better when Majerus stepped in at Ball State, then Marshall came in with it's athleticism, and Kent stepped up with its more defensive style. Suddenly the league became a whole lot different. Matchups became tougher. Officials couldn't just take games off.

I'm afraid, after what Akron and Miami did this season (shooting almost 50-percent of their field goals from 3) the copycats will come out of the woodwork. Hopefully, the better coaches stick to their identity and recruit better players to it.

We'll see.

Casper71
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RE: Gotta give them a pass

Posted: 3/16/2025 9:15:33 PM

Newsflash everyone� College basketball has become a three-point shooting game. If you don�t have shooters, you will not win. I have consistently said guard the three-point line and let them shoot two pointers.

BillyTheCat
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RE: Gotta give them a pass

Posted: 3/16/2025 9:20:23 PM

OUcat wrote:

bobcat 2000 wrote:

UMass?

SBH
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RE: Gotta give them a pass

Posted: 3/17/2025 10:16:24 AM

BobcatSports wrote:

Insert image of checkbook here.

Andrew Ruck
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RE: Gotta give them a pass

Posted: 3/17/2025 10:58:14 AM

As stated elsewhere, I am not down on pinning everything on injuries. It was really only 2 injuries, Reef in the 1st half and Hadaway in the 2nd. Clayton/Brown/James were each just 3 games I believe. This just does not seem like a crazy high amount of absences to me and with a 9 man rotation, you should be able to survive.

Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

M.D.W.S.T
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RE: Gotta give them a pass

Posted: 3/17/2025 11:35:30 AM

Andrew Ruck wrote:

Losing your 4 and 5 man (who is the leading scorer and rebounder) is a death wish for anyone, especially for a team that is small to begin with. AJC's last 10 games he averaged 10 points and 4 rebounds. I get what you're saying - his body was there, therefor it's not a high amount of absences, but his game wasn't there.

Add in injuries to your best player, and early parts of the season without your senior guard and you have a recipe for disaster.

And to further it, Elmore just has never seemed 'right' since last season. He played a lot of games, yes, but there was a stretch there of like 6-7 games when he only went for 20 min or less a night. Just doesn't feel like he regained his confidence or his legs.

And Sheldon might be legally blind.

Last Edited: 3/17/2025 11:39:46 AM by M.D.W.S.T

brucecuth
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RE: Gotta give them a pass

Posted: 3/17/2025 4:21:03 PM

Casper71 wrote:

Not necessarily. I can't think of a more offensively challenged big-time team than Michigan St., yet I'll be surprised if they don't make the Elite 8. They can't shoot 3s and I don't think they hit 50% of their other shots. But they defend the crap out of you on defense. They bloody and bruise you on the boards. It's the Izzo way. If they had any offensive capabilities at all, they'd win the whole thing. Hitting three-pointers certainly help, but if you can't play defense you'll be at a disadvantage...unless you're playing another team that can't defend either.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: Gotta give them a pass

Posted: 3/17/2025 4:38:59 PM

Casper71 wrote:

You're mostly right, but missing a key piece: protecting the rim. There are two efficient shots in basketball -- threes and shots at the rim. You've got to be able to defend both.

We couldn't defend either.

BillyTheCat
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RE: Gotta give them a pass

Posted: 3/17/2025 8:42:09 PM

Andrew Ruck wrote:

Missed games, but how healthy and effective were they when they came back?

Last Edited: 3/17/2025 8:42:45 PM by BillyTheCat

Casper71
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RE: Gotta give them a pass

Posted: 3/17/2025 11:01:45 PM

Love, my point is very simple. You have to guard against the three-point shot more than the two point shot. Again, any day I�ll give somebody a lay up rather than a wide open three. How many times this year did you see us with three guys in the line defending against the rim or short two point shot just to have the ball passed out to a wide open three that goes in?

spongeBOB CATpants
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RE: Gotta give them a pass

Posted: 3/18/2025 9:10:33 AM

Casper71 wrote:

You'd rather them get a lay up than take a wide open 3? Just making sure I read that right. Stop ball. That's the foundation of defense in this game.

GraffZ06
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RE: Gotta give them a pass

Posted: 3/18/2025 2:29:42 PM

Casper71 wrote:

You might want to look into statistical percentages of shots taken by area of the court and expected points per shot.

Hint: Dunks and close 2s yield more points per shot than 3s. That's the LAST shot you want to give up.

Plus driving to the hoop/getting offensive rebounds/low post touches induce fouls which lead to foul shots, which also provide more points per shot than 3s.

Now if you mean give up 3s vs mid to long range 2s (Pavs bread and butter) then I agree with you - chase them off the 3pt line.

Any good offense will operate under the goal to get Dunks/layups, free throws and 3s. In that order.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: Gotta give them a pass

Posted: 3/18/2025 3:11:16 PM

GraffZ06 wrote:

Casper71 wrote:

Look at that, you almost made an entire post without criticizing Pavs. You're getting there. Maybe the next one.

GraffZ06
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RE: Gotta give them a pass

Posted: 3/18/2025 6:52:01 PM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

Look at that, you almost made an entire post without criticizing Pavs. You're getting there. Maybe the next one.

Lol. Hey we all have our things to work on.

I honestly don't hate the kid. He's just the antithesis of basically everything I look for in a PG and by rate stats he was the 4th or 5th best player on our team yet played the most minutes, took the most shots, had the most turnovers and scored the most points.

He'd be a perfectly fine bench option.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: Gotta give them a pass

Posted: 3/18/2025 7:24:25 PM

GraffZ06 wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

Look at that, you almost made an entire post without criticizing Pavs. You're getting there. Maybe the next one.

I almost get what you're saying. But actually, I think you kind of just made up your mind too early and didn't notice what he became this season.

Not sure what rate stats you're looking at, but here's where Pavs ranked in a bunch of advanced stats:

TS% - 4th
Free Throw Rate -- 3rd (2nd amongst guys actually in the rotation)
Rebound rate -- 7th (best guard aside from Elliott, and his rebound rate was basically identical to Evans)
Assist Rate - 1st (by a massive margin)
Usage -- 2nd
Offensive Win Shares -- Tied 1
WS/40 - 5th
Box Plus/Minus - 5th

But the thing is that Pavs basically had two seasons. He was straight up bad in during non-conference play. He averaged 11.9 pts, 5.9 assists, and 4.3 rebounds shooting 42% from the field, 31% from 3, 45% from 2, and an eFG rate of .453.

But in conference play, he was much, much better: shot 57% from the field, 63% from 2, 33% from three, 60% efg, and averaged 15 pts, 4.1 assists, 4 rebounds.

Casper71
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RE: Gotta give them a pass

Posted: 3/18/2025 9:33:58 PM

Not sure why I can�t get this point across. If I shoot three from I get nine points. In order to do that inside the three point line, I would have to get five baskets out of ten shots. I simply think more teams shoot better than 33% from outside the arc than shoot 50% from inside the arc.

Last Edited: 3/19/2025 10:17:44 PM by Casper71

ohiocatfan1
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RE: Gotta give them a pass

Posted: 3/19/2025 12:52:49 PM

FearLeon wrote:

FlashGary wrote:

Injuries happen to all teams. Yes, it hit us harder than most in the conference. The one guy we couldn�t afford to lose at any point this year was Captain Chaos. It was a position where Boals failed to have depth with his roster construction. I find it hard to believe that anyone on this coaching staff felt Evans could give this team 10-15 per game his freshman year when they signed him. The inability of Ben Nicol not being ready to play as a redshirt sophomore was atrocious and hurt this team�s depth immensely when the injuries piled up.

Boals mismanaged the roster construction and if he hasn�t learned anything from the last two years, then he should be feeling the seat getting warm. He�s the highest paid coach in the league and the results after six seasons don�t warrant the salary. 11-1 Tod K is his daddy�Groce (aka Mr. March) is in another stratosphere�and Steele has resurrected Miami hoops and they are a massive problem moving forward. There should be a clause in Boals contract if he doesn�t get out of the MAC Quaterfinals he gives back 100k to the 1804 NIL collective. We know that will never happen.

It�s onto portal season. There should be at least three current players on scholarship looking for a fresh start elsewhere. At least I hope so. If not, Boals needs to lead them there immediately. The world of college athletics sucks and these are now one-year contracts. A team can go from worst to first with a total roster reconstruction overhaul through the portal. This staff has a lot of work to do.

Fully ready to never discuss the 2024-2025 season again.

100% on all. A redshirt sophomore unable to contribute is a complete whiff. Nobody is expecting to challenge for a national championship but competing in our league is a more than reasonable expectation.

OhioCatFan
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RE: Gotta give them a pass

Posted: 3/19/2025 4:15:06 PM

To be blunt, our problem this year was NOT primarily injuries. In fact, we played some of our better games when we had starters out due to injuries. Our problems were related to talent (especially underneath) and coaching. I'm not sure how to weigh those two factors, but they're somewhat interrelated, since coaches are responsible for recruiting. Fully healthy were were not a good D1 basketball team. Individually, we have some talent, but it all seems to be centered around outside shooters and perimeter players and not those with a consistent inside game, save for fast breaks, at which we were pretty good. Once settled into a half-court offense, we just didn't have a dominating inside presence. Just my two-cents worth.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

TWT
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RE: Gotta give them a pass

Posted: 3/19/2025 6:02:48 PM

ohiocatfan1 wrote:

FearLeon wrote:

FlashGary wrote:

Injuries happen to all teams. Yes, it hit us harder than most in the conference. The one guy we couldn�t afford to lose at any point this year was Captain Chaos. It was a position where Boals failed to have depth with his roster construction. I find it hard to believe that anyone on this coaching staff felt Evans could give this team 10-15 per game his freshman year when they signed him. The inability of Ben Nicol not being ready to play as a redshirt sophomore was atrocious and hurt this team�s depth immensely when the injuries piled up.

Boals mismanaged the roster construction and if he hasn�t learned anything from the last two years, then he should be feeling the seat getting warm. He�s the highest paid coach in the league and the results after six seasons don�t warrant the salary. 11-1 Tod K is his daddy�Groce (aka Mr. March) is in another stratosphere�and Steele has resurrected Miami hoops and they are a massive problem moving forward. There should be a clause in Boals contract if he doesn�t get out of the MAC Quaterfinals he gives back 100k to the 1804 NIL collective. We know that will never happen.

It�s onto portal season. There should be at least three current players on scholarship looking for a fresh start elsewhere. At least I hope so. If not, Boals needs to lead them there immediately. The world of college athletics sucks and these are now one-year contracts. A team can go from worst to first with a total roster reconstruction overhaul through the portal. This staff has a lot of work to do.

Fully ready to never discuss the 2024-2025 season again.

The team made Cleveland with a decent 5 seed and wins over #1 Akron and #2 Miami down the stretch. I would say that is competitive enough but barely.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

OUcats82
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RE: Gotta give them a pass

Posted: 3/20/2025 9:34:47 AM

bobcat 2000 wrote:

I was kind of hoping that maybe Miami would win the MAC this year and maybe even a tourney game then someone would wisk him away and bring them back down to where they have been most of this century.

Ohio-The State University

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