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Topic: And the beat goes on and gets louder

Topic: And the beat goes on and gets louder

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Alan Swank
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Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
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And the beat goes on and gets louder

Posted: 11/3/2019 10:18:28 AM

Front page of today's Dispatch with a 21 pica by 28 pica four color picture of the deceased student in a paw shirt AND the landing page for dispatch.com

https://gatehousenews.com/brokenpledge/code-of-silence-we... /

Last Edited: 11/3/2019 3:20:15 PM by Alan Swank

OhioCatFan
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 14,164

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RE: And the beat goes on and gets louder

Posted: 11/3/2019 12:06:06 PM

Alan Swank wrote:

Front page of today's Dispatch with a 21 pica by 28 pica four color picture of the deceased student in a paw shirt AND the landing page for dispatch.com

https://www.dispatch.com

clicked the link. The stories not there now.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

Deciduous Forest Cat
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Location: Ohio
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RE: And the beat goes on and gets louder

Posted: 11/3/2019 12:39:09 PM

Sorry, but f**k the dispatch. I know they want to be considered old school hard news, but they're just a tabloid when it comes to all things Ohio and Athens. They can eat a bag of d****.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Member Since: 7/30/2010
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RE: And the beat goes on and gets louder

Posted: 11/3/2019 12:52:54 PM

Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:

Sorry, but f**k the dispatch. I know they want to be considered old school hard news, but they're just a tabloid when it comes to all things Ohio and Athens. They can eat a bag of d****.

What about this story do you disagree with?

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: And the beat goes on and gets louder

Posted: 11/3/2019 12:55:43 PM

OhioCatFan wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

Front page of today's Dispatch with a 21 pica by 28 pica four color picture of the deceased student in a paw shirt AND the landing page for dispatch.com

https://www.dispatch.com

clicked the link. The stories not there now.

Since like 40% of users here don't know how links work, here's the link to the actual story itself: https://gatehousenews.com/brokenpledge/code-of-silence-we... /

On the home page, it's below the fold. It's getting the same billing as a memorial golf tournament for Payne Stewart and a very tall Oak Tree in Logan. It's not surprising you didn't notice it.

I think some people here may just be a tad bit oversensitive when it comes to press about our alma mater.

OhioCatFan
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
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RE: And the beat goes on and gets louder

Posted: 11/3/2019 1:45:26 PM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

Front page of today's Dispatch with a 21 pica by 28 pica four color picture of the deceased student in a paw shirt AND the landing page for dispatch.com

https://www.dispatch.com

clicked the link. The stories not there now.

Thanks for supplying the direct link, oh wizard of the web! :

That's actually not a bad story. A lot of good information in it, and it does recognize that the problem is not unique to our alma mater. However, I stand by my position the way the university administration handled this was too broad brushed and was not done with any sense of proportion.

As much as I hate to quote someone from the Hell Hole of Ohio, especially this week, this dude had it exactly right:

Butler County Prosecutor Michael Gmoser said he has no tolerance for hazing that abuses students or anyone else.

He said there is a difference between rites of passages — such as cadets being made to scrub floors or polish shoes at military academies — and hazing that abuses or injures someone.

“Having the snot beat out of them is not a rite of passage,” Gmoser said.

“There’s no place for it, not in Ohio. They can take their fraternal organizations the hell off of these college campuses,” Gmoser said.

I would just amend it to say that his last line doesn't apply to all Greek groups, just those that go beyond the types of "hazing" he refers to at military academies.

Last Edited: 11/3/2019 1:49:34 PM by OhioCatFan

Deciduous Forest Cat
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RE: And the beat goes on and gets louder

Posted: 11/3/2019 2:50:31 PM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:

Sorry, but f**k the dispatch. I know they want to be considered old school hard news, but they're just a tabloid when it comes to all things Ohio and Athens. They can eat a bag of d****.

What about this story do you disagree with?

I didn't read it. I'm talking about the dispatch's propensity for only caring on what's going on in Athens when it's something bad. I stand by my dinner invitation.

Alan Swank
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Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,073

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RE: And the beat goes on and gets louder

Posted: 11/3/2019 3:24:28 PM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

Front page of today's Dispatch with a 21 pica by 28 pica four color picture of the deceased student in a paw shirt AND the landing page for dispatch.com

https://www.dispatch.com

clicked the link. The stories not there now.

When I posted the link, it was "above the fold" and on the landing page. Like most websites, that changes throughout the day. In the print edition which doesn't change, it's on page one above the fold.

Having worked in public high schools for over 35 years, I can only share what I have heard many times. "My parents won't let me go to OU." Stories in print editions that older folks read only lend to that feeling.

And as for the three sororities, OU closed its investigations "for lack of evidence." Face meet pie.

Last Edited: 11/3/2019 3:26:33 PM by Alan Swank

OU_Country
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Member Since: 12/6/2005
Location: On the road between Athens and Madison County
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RE: And the beat goes on and gets louder

Posted: 11/3/2019 6:10:25 PM

Cue up the Donald Trump Administration "Witch Hunt" quotes.

The Optimist
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Member Since: 3/16/2007
Location: CLE
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RE: And the beat goes on and gets louder

Posted: 11/3/2019 9:34:35 PM

OU_Country wrote:

Cue up the Donald Trump Administration "Witch Hunt" quotes.

I'm looking forward to an anti-administration candidate in the student senate election being accused of being a Russian agent.

I've seen crazier things happen.

OhioCatFan
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
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RE: And the beat goes on and gets louder

Posted: 11/3/2019 10:38:24 PM

The Optimist wrote:

OU_Country wrote:

Cue up the Donald Trump Administration "Witch Hunt" quotes.

I'm looking forward to an anti-administration candidate in the student senate election being accused of being a Russian agent.

Didn't you get the memo? Accusing people of being Russian agents is so pre-Mueller Report. Now, you are suppose to pivot and turn your attention to alleged Ukrainian monkey business. No need to fret, though, I'm sure student senate got the memo! However, by next semester, they'll be a new memo, once the current stratagems fails. Somewhere Joe McCarthy is smiling!

BillyTheCat
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RE: And the beat goes on and gets louder

Posted: 11/3/2019 10:50:43 PM

Alan Swank wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

Front page of today's Dispatch with a 21 pica by 28 pica four color picture of the deceased student in a paw shirt AND the landing page for dispatch.com

https://www.dispatch.com

clicked the link. The stories not there now.

Lack of evidence? In 2004 they hazed, I saw it, so must be real today.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Member Since: 7/30/2010
Post Count: 3,472

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RE: And the beat goes on and gets louder

Posted: 11/4/2019 7:32:07 AM

BillyTheCat wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

Front page of today's Dispatch with a 21 pica by 28 pica four color picture of the deceased student in a paw shirt AND the landing page for dispatch.com

https://www.dispatch.com

clicked the link. The stories not there now.

Lack of evidence? In 2004 they hazed, I saw it, so must be real today.

You know what the difference between our reactions over the last three weeks is?

I wouldn't have to be ashamed of the things I've said were Colin Wiant's parents to hear them. You on the other hand? Well, we both know you wouldn't behave this way in front of them.

What's that say about you, do you think?

SBH
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
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RE: And the beat goes on and gets louder

Posted: 11/4/2019 8:09:28 AM

Alan Swank wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

Front page of today's Dispatch with a 21 pica by 28 pica four color picture of the deceased student in a paw shirt AND the landing page for dispatch.com

https://www.dispatch.com

clicked the link. The stories not there now.

Did you read the story? The part about the code of silence? It's no surprise that folks suddenly clammed up about incidents. Did you also note that OSU suspended all of its fraternities a few years ago?

I have zero problem with this approach. We owe it to that young man's parents, and, frankly, to all parents who send their kids to Athens, to put these organizations on alert about unacceptable behavior. If my sons were looking for schools today, I'd be MORE inclined to send them to OU knowing that the administration isn't going to put up with this shit.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: And the beat goes on and gets louder

Posted: 11/4/2019 8:09:39 AM

OhioCatFan wrote:

When you can't defend the behavior, accuse the accusers of bias. Weird how relevant that is to so many conversations here.

Alan Swank
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Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,073

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RE: And the beat goes on and gets louder

Posted: 11/4/2019 9:13:30 AM

SBH wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

Front page of today's Dispatch with a 21 pica by 28 pica four color picture of the deceased student in a paw shirt AND the landing page for dispatch.com

https://www.dispatch.com

clicked the link. The stories not there now.

Read the whole thing and by and large I can't disagree with most of that. That said, perhaps there truly was no evidence and the original charge was false or hearsay. I would however make one big change that Buffalo has done. No pledging first semester. Let the students adjust to college, make friends and begin to figure out what college is supposed to be about. Pledging in the first month or too often does not allow that to happen and young impressionable 18 and 19 year olds get caught up in group think.

And let me be perfectly clear - hazing in fthe form of alcohol abuse, drug use, physical or mental harm is not something that I support or would tolerate. Never have and never will. That said, pledges answering the phone (if there still is a house phone), doing weekly cleanup duty, raking the house leaves and mowing the grass because they are pledges is not hazing to me (I'm sure there are other things that could be included in that list).

Last Edited: 11/4/2019 9:34:43 AM by Alan Swank

OhioCatFan
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Location: Athens, OH
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RE: And the beat goes on and gets louder

Posted: 11/4/2019 9:33:39 AM

Alan Swank wrote:

SBH wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

Front page of today's Dispatch with a 21 pica by 28 pica four color picture of the deceased student in a paw shirt AND the landing page for dispatch.com

https://www.dispatch.com

clicked the link. The stories not there now.

Can't disagree with most of that. I would however make one big change that Buffalo has done. No pledging first semester. Let the students adjust to college, make friends and begin to figure out what college is supposed to be about. Pledging in the first month or too often does not allow that to happen and young impressionable 18 and 19 year olds get caught up in group think.

And let me be perfectly clear - hazing in fthe form of alcohol abuse, drug use, physical or mental harm is not something that I support. Never have and never will. That said, pledges answering the phone (if there still is a house phone), doing weekly cleanup duty, raking the house leaves and mowing the grass because they are pledges is not hazing to me (I'm sure there are other things that could be included in that list).

Agree, Alan, with what you say here. BTW, when I was an undergraduate fraternities had what you are talking about. They called it "deferred rush." Sororities did not, as females were assumed to be more mature at that age.

Kevin Finnegan
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Location: Rockton, IL
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RE: And the beat goes on and gets louder

Posted: 11/4/2019 9:47:51 AM

How is it that the stat of 80 students dead from fraternity hazing system in the last 15 years not something we are seeing as a major issue?

From the article:

"In the last 15 years, 80 college students have died in connection with the Greek system, according to Hank Nuwer, a professor at Franklin College in Franklin, Indiana, near Indianapolis. He tracks hazing deaths and wrote the book �Hazing: Destroying Young Lives.�

Nuwer�s research shows that at least one student has died from hazing-related activity every year since 1959."

This is not an OHIO issue as much as an American university issue. Imagine if 80 college football players (or any sport) had died in the last 15 years from injuries related to the game. It's hard to fathom that the sport would be allowed to continue at the collegiate level.

I was relatively indifferent to the suspension of the fraternities. But a statistic like this makes me think that a serious message needs to be sent. Make them all re-evaluate their practices. Make the university re-evaluate their relationship with them.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: And the beat goes on and gets louder

Posted: 11/4/2019 10:18:41 AM

finnOhio wrote:

That is a very glaring number. It's made all the more glaring when you consider that nobody seems capable of making any sort of cogent argument as to what this is all for. There's tons of debate as to whether or not the specific accusations here warrant the approach taken by OU and plenty of debate about how serious the accusations are.

But I feel like there's a first principle question nobody is asking. What is any of this for? What purpose does this hazing -- regardless of what end of the severity spectrum it falls on -- serve?

Plenty of people here seem more than willing to tolerate varying degrees of this sort of behavior. Why? What purpose does any of it serve?

Last Edited: 11/4/2019 10:20:35 AM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

bobcatsquared
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RE: And the beat goes on and gets louder

Posted: 11/4/2019 10:32:24 AM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

When you can't defend the behavior, accuse the accusers of bias. Weird how relevant that is to so many conversations here.

Also relevant on the national stage (looking east toward Washington, DC).

Last Edited: 11/4/2019 10:39:07 AM by bobcatsquared

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: And the beat goes on and gets louder

Posted: 11/20/2019 2:18:03 PM

OhioCatFan wrote:

The Optimist wrote:

OU_Country wrote:

Cue up the Donald Trump Administration "Witch Hunt" quotes.

I'm looking forward to an anti-administration candidate in the student senate election being accused of being a Russian agent.

This aged well.

JSF
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Member Since: 1/29/2005
Location: Houston, TX
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RE: And the beat goes on and gets louder

Posted: 11/25/2019 6:03:25 PM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

The Optimist wrote:

OU_Country wrote:

Cue up the Donald Trump Administration "Witch Hunt" quotes.

I'm looking forward to an anti-administration candidate in the student senate election being accused of being a Russian agent.

This aged well.

From a professor of journalism, no less.

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

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