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Topic: Youth Sports

Topic: Youth Sports

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rpbobcat
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Youth Sports

Posted: 7/29/2019 10:38:05 AM

Was listening to The Sports Edge on WFAN yesterday morning.

The subject was a Commissioner of Youth Sports.

It was interesting topic.

The Commissioner would bring some consistency to youth sports,including travel teams.

The Commissioner would also be able to develop informational programs for sports parents.
They would go into things like specializing in one sport at an early age,likelyhood of playing a sport in college,including scholarships.

The host felt that,given what has been described as a somewhat "chaotic" system in youth sports,including the explosion of "pay to play" travel teams a Commissioner was overdue.

I don't have any kids,but the idea of putting some control of youth sports,and
providing parents with information about specialization and future opportunities in sports made sense to me.

I just wonder who/how it would be administered.

Just wondered what other people thought.

The Optimist
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Location: CLE
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RE: Youth Sports

Posted: 7/29/2019 1:15:56 PM

Unless I�m misunderstanding, I don�t see how this role is different than what most youth sports already have now as �commissioner� in the sense there is a president of youth (name sport here)

If you�re talking one commissioner that would rule over all the other sports presidents, I don�t think that is likely. Most sports are already a mess of this league and that league who each do their own thing and the national associations don�t have much success in standardizing anything. I�m most familiar with youth soccer, where you�ve got two presidents of different associations with teams and leagues under them playing by their own rules... and those groups fight over EVERYTHING

I've seen crazier things happen.

rpbobcat
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RE: Youth Sports

Posted: 7/29/2019 1:44:32 PM

The Optimist wrote:

From what it sounded like,there is a push for 1 Commissioner to set up rules,guidelines,etc.,that would apply to all youth sports.

I like the idea in principal.
All youth sports including travel teams and AAU having to follow the same rules.
I just don't see individual entities giving up power,unless they were forced to.

I also like the idea of producing educational materials for sports parents on things like specializing,sports beyond youth,especially college.

Thing is,would parents even listen (read).

cbus cat fan
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RE: Youth Sports

Posted: 7/29/2019 5:53:13 PM

A very interesting discussion started by our esteemed poster RpBobcat. Talk about changes in youth sports since I played. Sometimes I think if anything there should a Commissioner of Reality in youth sports. My kids play sports and to their credit, they and most of their friends seem grounded in reality. Yet, there are way too many kids playing on travelling squads who are in the 3rd and 4th grade. One kid in our neighborhood plays on a hockey travelling squad which takes him to Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cincinnati and Nashville on the weekends. The day after Christmas until early January he will be in Ontario and Quebec for a tournament. His dad told me that about half the kids and their parents think they surely will be getting their tickets punched to the NHL. As he put it, they aren't going to play college hockey let alone in the NHL.

Another neighbor who is hardly a jock told me that after 3 years of shelling out $2,500 a year on some sort of elite hockey camp, his son informed him he's not going to try out for the local high school team when he enters high school this fall because he's just not good enough. Way too many kids and or their parents are under the delusion that they are the next big thing. This same neighbor told me of a kid who was on the Columbus Crew futures team (apparently they have tutors but they don't go to their local school?) He decided to leave that behind and go back for his senior year of high school, because he felt like he was missing out on being a high school teenager and missing his friends, schools dances etc.

A realtor told me stories of a couple area kids moving with one of their parents to south Florida for one of those Nick Bollittieri style tennis camps. After renting and or buying an expensive condo, it didn't take long for the mom or dad to see that some of the Florida kids, let alone the Russian and Croatian kids were leaving their kid in the dust. Like I said, maybe we need a commissioner of reality.

Finally one of the local soccer academy owners told me that he recently addressed some sort of sports conference put on by Dick's Sports (in Dallas I think.) He was quizzed by the company as to why sports sales are down for kids who are high school age compared to those a few years back. He relayed to them that too many travelling leagues of every sport are burning out kids, which results in them quitting when they are teenagers. Youth sports should be local in nature and school driven, he stated. He went on to say that the elite athletes are easy to spot. My guess is that his advice to any youth commissioner would be to pare down these travelling squads to the truly elite athletes. For many kids, organizers and sports academies are simply making money off them and their parents hopes and dreams, because there will be no professional or college career that will come out of all of their hard earned money and time .

Last Edited: 7/29/2019 5:57:42 PM by cbus cat fan

Alan Swank
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RE: Youth Sports

Posted: 7/29/2019 10:10:37 PM

Played golf with a fellow from Richland County in late June whose 11 year old daughter played on a travel softball team. They had already played 50 games.

rpbobcat
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RE: Youth Sports

Posted: 7/30/2019 10:37:17 AM

Alan Swank wrote:

Played golf with a fellow from Richland County in late June whose 11 year old daughter played on a travel softball team. They had already played 50 games.

From what they were saying,there are virtually no restrictions on travel teams when it comes to games,practice, etc..

They talk about travel teams a lot on this show.

Apparently teams hold "open" tryouts at $150. or so per kid,knowing they
only need 1 or 2 players.

The coaches also talk up the players to their parents to keep them on the team,and the money coming in.

They also talk about how kids who specialize in one sport at an early age,then play year round,can burn out mentally and physically before they get to high school.

A lot of the ones who don't burn out,find that their travel team coaches inflated their abilities.Then when they find out they're not going to be the next ______(insert pro athlete's name) they quit.

Last Edited: 7/30/2019 10:46:14 AM by rpbobcat

Robert Fox
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RE: Youth Sports

Posted: 7/30/2019 10:52:33 AM

It's not just the travel leagues doing it. In soccer, colleges do something similar with "ID camps." Kids get emails "inviting" them to attend the camp, which normally costs $100-$200. My daughter attended a camp at Western Michigan. She was one of over 200 girls in attendance.

On the other hand, this is a money maker for these programs. If they are forced to cut them, they'll have to find resources somewhere else.

Bottom line: Parents have to be smart about this stuff. There is no shortage of opportunists out there who will tell you your son or daughter has "unbelievable talent!!!!"

Andrew Ruck
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RE: Youth Sports

Posted: 7/30/2019 11:14:02 AM

If I understand you right, you're saying this discussion was concerning perhaps a federally appointed position/department to govern youth sports? It is an interesting concept. The Surgeon General can ban products scientifically proven to be harmful, perahps "Federal Commissioner" could step in and ban certain youth sports practices? I don't see how you could have this position govern actual rules and guidelines though. They could make recommendations, but as others have said, they will just create their own and not follow whatever sanctions these would be. This stuff already happens all the time.

I am the Commissioner for Worthington Coach Pitch baseball and have a blast running it. I set the rosters, schedule, rules for the league all on my own. I've talked to other Columbus area commissioners and compared rules and there are definitely some differences. In the end though, it's still baseball and the rules aren't really a huge deal.

I coach a 12U travel team and my son is on a 10U team. They each play about 30 games total including tournament games. They each do 1 out of town tourney per season just for the experience. Fees are $400 per year. We do a little in the fall, and some indoor work Jan-Mar. We have a 90 day blackout period mid-Oct thru mid-Jan. In my biased opinion, this is what travel sports should look like.

I've come across several families doing much crazier things. Playing almost exclusively tournaments...many out of town. There are PLENTY of appropriate teams in Central Ohio. I've seen fees of 2-3k, teams with 60 games, and year-round practicing with little to no wiggle room to play other sports. I don't have elite level future pro boys, just solid ballplayers...so maybe my thoughts would be different if I had a kid who was extra special and turning heads.

Need Ted Thompson to weigh in on this one, he has a lot of experience with multiple kids/sports.

Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

Alan Swank
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RE: Youth Sports

Posted: 7/31/2019 3:59:07 PM

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/07/here-are-your-odds-of-be...

That's one reason I'm not a fan of these "signing" pictures in local newspapers. Usually it's some kid who made all league and is going to try out at some D 3 or NAIA school that doens't give athletic scholarships. It gives a false impression. My daughter made all league and all district in volleyball and played four years at Marietta. She did not "sign" to play at Marietta.

Last Edited: 7/31/2019 4:03:18 PM by Alan Swank

rpbobcat
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RE: Youth Sports

Posted: 8/1/2019 8:58:53 AM

Alan Swank wrote:

This is another topic that gets a lot of air time on The Sports Edge.

The host has on a number of college coaches and people who work with
high school athletes in determining how to best move forward with
their academic/sports careers.

One of the things everyone stresses is managing expectations,especially parents'.

They point out just how low the percentage of high school athletes
going on to play any level college sports is.

The percentage gets even lower,when you look how many kids get any athletic
scholarship many.

Then,except for D1 football and basketball,the number of full athletic scholarships is minuscule.

They also talk about whether you want to "ride the bench" in a D1 program or
actually play at a lower level.

The other universal theme is that you should chose a college based on academics first.
They talked about one kid who worked so hard to get an athletic scholarship,he
and is parents never realized the college he was going to didn't offer what he
wanted to major in.

BillyTheCat
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RE: Youth Sports

Posted: 8/2/2019 6:54:57 AM

The reason all these travel teams exist is because the people did not like the regulations and limits placed on them. This is why you�ve seen the decline in Little League, American Legion, etc.

Kevin Finnegan
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RE: Youth Sports

Posted: 8/2/2019 9:18:34 AM

I feel that there could be almost a reversal of the trend coming within a generation. I've often thought that a fun concept for a summer baseball camp or summer league would be to have parents drop off their kids, there's equipment and snacks, but other than that, it's a free-for-all sandlot camp. Instead of having parents dictate lineups, positions, innings pitched, strategy, and everything else where they try to live through their child's experience, let them just be kids. Let them fight and argue, figure things out, have fun, get dirty, and learn the rules through each other rather than from that of a barking coach.

This problem (which nearly everybody recognizes, even those involved in club/travel teams) is driven by the parents, not the kids. These children are over-managed, over-scrutinized, and sucking some of the fun out these games.

Alan Swank
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RE: Youth Sports

Posted: 8/4/2019 10:34:46 AM

finnOhio wrote:

Sounds like the 50s and 60s in a spare neighborhood lot. Can't remember the last time I saw a bunch of kids playing pickup baseball or football.

OhioCatFan
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RE: Youth Sports

Posted: 8/4/2019 12:42:11 PM

Alan Swank wrote:

finnOhio wrote:

Sounds like the 50s and 60s in a spare neighborhood lot. Can't remember the last time I saw a bunch of kids playing pickup baseball or football.

Yes, helicopter parenting is a real societal problem these days. One small example: There's a school bus stop by our house. Every day when school isin session several parents sit in their cars to pick up their kids when they get off the bus. These poor snowflakes can't walk a few houses down the street on their own. In one case the driveway is only two away from our driveway and the kid could throw a rock from the school bus stop to his driveway.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

Jeff McKinney
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RE: Youth Sports

Posted: 8/4/2019 5:08:31 PM

Alan--when I was a kid, we played sandlot baseball and football all the time. No parents ever got involved. We usually had a lot of fun.

cc-cat
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RE: Youth Sports

Posted: 8/4/2019 6:58:26 PM

BillyTheCat wrote:

The reason all these travel teams exist is because the people did not like the regulations and limits placed on them. This is why you�ve seen the decline in Little League, American Legion, etc.

They Don't like the limits because they are 1). convinced their child is the next Mike Trout - spoiler - they are not....not even close. or 2). they see their friends / neighbors / others they strive to rival in the community placing their son or daughter in travel ball and do so as well to keep up with the Joneses - spoiler - your friends / neighbors / others kid is not the next Mike Trout either.

2 stories - was out in driveway pitching to my son when he was young (8 or so). Neighbor kid (10 or so at the tine) came by. Had him pick up a bat. Hit the ball a ton - told him he should play some baseball. Told me his father wouldn't let him - soccer only - He (like his older brothers before him) quit soccer by 13 - no fun anymore. Coached my kids soccer team when he was U8 - everyone thought their kid was the next big thing, Had one kid that you could see was a natural - had real coordination and speed - all others were pedestrian. Most spent the next 8 years paying for travel ball - thousands a year. Natural kid played one season at UNC-Wilmington on very partial scholarship and then quit - rest of players too good. Only kid I saw better than him was Steve Smith's kid - who played a year at DePaul before giving game up as well.

Met so many parents that were convinced their kid would play (at least) college ball and paid year after year in travel ball costs to prep the kid - almost none play college and parent ends up paying way more than any scholarship covers.

Last Edited: 8/4/2019 6:58:50 PM by cc-cat

BillyTheCat
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RE: Youth Sports

Posted: 8/4/2019 7:46:35 PM

OhioCatFan wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

finnOhio wrote:

Sounds like the 50s and 60s in a spare neighborhood lot. Can't remember the last time I saw a bunch of kids playing pickup baseball or football.

Probably because the parents are concerned of the old folks in their neighborhood yelling at their kids to get off their lawn;-)

And the irony, the same person complaining about parents not allowing kids to walk happens to be same person who complained about a lack of a department provided shuttle bus.

Buck.Cat
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RE: Youth Sports

Posted: 8/4/2019 8:39:04 PM

Not sure how much lower it can get when children are being called snowflakes by old men.

mid70sbobcat
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RE: Youth Sports

Posted: 8/4/2019 11:45:50 PM

Buck.Cat wrote:

Not sure how much lower it can get when children are being called snowflakes by old men.

You sound offended. Are you a snowflake? I'd bet yes .... based on your posting history.

OhioCatFan
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RE: Youth Sports

Posted: 8/5/2019 10:12:48 AM

mid70sbobcat wrote:

Buck.Cat wrote:

Not sure how much lower it can get when children are being called snowflakes by old men.

You sound offended. Are you a snowflake? I'd bet yes .... based on your posting history.

+1

He or she also seems to be an ageist based on posting history.

[BTC, your memory is failing you; it was my wife who called for the shuttles, not me. You�ve been killing the messenger for years.]

Last Edited: 8/5/2019 10:13:25 AM by OhioCatFan

UpSan Bobcat
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RE: Youth Sports

Posted: 8/5/2019 8:40:16 PM

Buck.Cat wrote:

Not sure how much lower it can get when children are being called snowflakes by old men.

It's probably more often than not the parents who are the ones insisting the kids be picked up from the bus stop rather than walking, so in that sense, it's kind of not fair to put a name to the kids.

bobcatsquared
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RE: Youth Sports

Posted: 8/5/2019 9:19:40 PM

Alan Swank wrote:

Sounds like the 50s and 60s in a spare neighborhood lot. Can't remember the last time I saw a bunch of kids playing pickup baseball or football.

And into the 70s on the neighborhood little league field. Very little evidence of this now.

However, I spent the weekend at a 12U baseball tournament in Warsaw, OH. The games were played on 3 fields that were part of a little community park, including a swimming pool, basketball/tennis courts, pavilion with band stage, shelter houses, etc.. Very old-school Americana. I had a nice conversation not unlike the topic on this thread with the tournament organizer and he told me that a day/night doesn't go by during the summer when the fields aren't being used by local kids for pickup games. Maybe because it's Amish country, maybe not. But what some of us did 40-60 years ago isn't entirely a thing of the past.

On a side note, the Newark team, which is made up of Rec League players, beat a travel team from East Holmes 2 times Sunday to take home the tournament championship.

Last Edited: 8/5/2019 9:20:55 PM by bobcatsquared

OhioCatFan
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RE: Youth Sports

Posted: 8/5/2019 10:04:31 PM

UpSan Bobcat wrote:

Buck.Cat wrote:

Not sure how much lower it can get when children are being called snowflakes by old men.

If you notice I put the blame on the helicopter parents. It's the parents who are making the kids into snowflakes. So I think we are actually in agreement here.

Buck.Cat
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RE: Youth Sports

Posted: 8/6/2019 9:02:23 PM

No, you directly called children (I'm assuming elementary age) snowflakes. As far as parents dropping off and picking up kids at bus stops, this is not unique to Athens but occurs in a lot of school districts. I do not understand why parents are not allowed to have piece of mind that their children are safely picked up and dropped off from school. Maybe someone should inform these same parents that a man in their neighborhood leers out his window at their children.

Snowflakes seems to be a common insult among a segment of the population. Here's a recent example -

https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2019/08/ohio-lawmaker-bla...

OhioCatFan
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RE: Youth Sports

Posted: 8/6/2019 9:46:28 PM

I implied that the parents were turning them into snowflakes by their helicopter parenting. That�s quite clear if you read what I wrote in context. I know it occurs all over the place. I don�t see this out my window. I see it when I�m out walking around the neighborhood. Some old guys can still walk. In fact, I�m writing this after running up and down the basketball court for about an hour and half. Perhaps, you need to rethink a few of your ageist stereotypes. Just saying . . .

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