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We will get by. We will get by. We will get by. We will survive. Back to Top TWT General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Alexandria, VA Post Count: 5,149 Status: Offline     RE: Athens County the poorest in the state    Posted: 1/22/2018 3:03:08 PM  People who are visiting Athens on college trips are not seeing that much of the poverty on the way in. From Cincinnati they are taking US32 which is under populated. Dayton US35/32. Columbus US33 the new 4 lane expressway. Northeast Ohio some are taking I-77 and US50. I don't think they are really seeing the poverty. What they are seeing is when they try to book a visit for a college trip on a fall Saturday online is they can't find a hotel room. Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended 2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round 2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl 2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086 Back to Top DelBobcat General User Member Since: 8/26/2010 Location: Cincinnati, OH Post Count: 1,135 Status: Offline     RE: Athens County the poorest in the state    Posted: 1/22/2018 4:14:03 PM  Pataskala wrote: USAT ran a story today about the poorest county in each state and Athens in now the poorest in Ohio: https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/economy/2018/01/22/u... / Besides the obvious effects regarding fundraising, attendance at paid events,etc., any thoughts about how this might impact the university in such areas as recruiting, student enrollment, etc.? I saw this today as well. It's actually been the case for a long time. I work with demographics and I can tell you that Athens is skewed precisely because the university's enrollment makes up such a large proportion of the population. Looking at some different measures of income: Per capita - Athens ranks last Median Household - Athens ranks last Median Family - There are 9 counties lower than Athens Athens has some real poverty problems but the numbers are skewed to make it look worse because of the students. They show up big time in the first two calculations, but are less likely to be counted in the third. Compare it to Adams County, a county with a poverty problem that isn't skewed by students. Athens - Median Household Income: $34221 Median Family Income: $51,101 Adams- Median Household Income: $34709 Median Family Income: $41,904 See the difference? A gap of $7,195 for Adams and $16,880 for Athens. That's the effect you get from the student population. Now that's not to say that Athens County doesn't have a poverty problem, it does. But the statistics are definitely skewed because of the student population. BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012 Back to Top UpSan Bobcat General User Member Since: 8/30/2005 Location: Upper Sandusky, OH Post Count: 3,809 Status: Offline     RE: Athens County the poorest in the state    Posted: 1/22/2018 4:35:13 PM  DelBobcat, I think that's a good breakdown. Certainly all of southeast Ohio is poor, but I think you're right that the numbers are thrown off by the student count in Athens County. I think Athens probably is among the "least poor" counties in southeast Ohio because of the university. An indication from the article that shows Athens County isn't really that poor is its 4.6 percent unemployment rate, which is only slightly worse than the state average and better than nearly every other county in southeast Ohio. Back to Top TWT General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Alexandria, VA Post Count: 5,149 Status: Offline     RE: Athens County the poorest in the state    Posted: 1/22/2018 7:01:12 PM  I can remember the days before welfare reform in the 90s when every county in SE Ohio was solidly double digit unemployment counties. With Athens sitting at 4.6 percent unemployment today its at a high water mark economically over the past 30 years. Poverty in Athens County is hundreds of years old. Ask Alan Swank about how 40 years ago making your way from the East Coast to OU was to drive through places in Appalachia that were a scene out of Deliverance. The OP that Athens County has slipped from respectable to destitute in recent years makes no sense. Then with the highway improvements what poverty there is less visible than ever before. Has anyone besides me noticed the improvements on campus and in and around Athens from how it was 20 years ago? The one improvement we need but do not have is a few really nice hotels in town. Driving down Richland and seeing a Westin parents are going to be looking at Athens in a different light. In these days of online marking the regional tourism base is there for nicer hotels to work. They would bring a few more jobs into the county and help the tax base too. Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended 2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round 2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl 2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086 Back to Top TWT General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Alexandria, VA Post Count: 5,149 Status: Offline     RE: Athens County the poorest in the state    Posted: 1/22/2018 7:17:52 PM  DelBobcat wrote: Pataskala wrote: USAT ran a story today about the poorest county in each state and Athens in now the poorest in Ohio: https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/economy/2018/01/22/u... / Besides the obvious effects regarding fundraising, attendance at paid events,etc., any thoughts about how this might impact the university in such areas as recruiting, student enrollment, etc.? Athens - Median Household Income: $34221 Median Family Income: $51,101 Adams- Median Household Income: $34709 Median Family Income: $41,904 See the difference? A gap of $7,195 for Adams and $16,880 for Athens. That's the effect you get from the student population. Now that's not to say that Athens County doesn't have a poverty problem, it does. But the statistics are definitely skewed because of the student population. Then Adams County has a population of 28,000 compared to 65,000. With the difference in unemployment rate Athens County has about 3 times the amount of total jobs. Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended 2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round 2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl 2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086 Back to Top Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame General User Member Since: 7/30/2010 Post Count: 3,981 Status: Offline     RE: Athens County the poorest in the state    Posted: 1/22/2018 7:54:38 PM  Uncle Wes wrote: I can remember the days before welfare reform in the 90s when every county in SE Ohio was solidly double digit unemployment counties. With Athens sitting at 4.6 percent unemployment today its at a high water mark economically over the past 30 years. Poverty in Athens County is hundreds of years old. Ask Alan Swank about how 40 years ago making your way from the East Coast to OU was to drive through places in Appalachia that were a scene out of Deliverance. The OP that Athens County has slipped from respectable to destitute in recent years makes no sense. Then with the highway improvements what poverty there is less visible than ever before. Has anyone besides me noticed the improvements on campus and in and around Athens from how it was 20 years ago? The one improvement we need but do not have is a few really nice hotels in town. Driving down Richland and seeing a Westin parents are going to be looking at Athens in a different light. In these days of online marking the regional tourism base is there for nicer hotels to work. They would bring a few more jobs into the county and help the tax base too. I haven't been to Athens in over a decade but when I was there I often drove to Virginia from Athens, which required I drive south on 33 towards Ravenswood/77. I'm not super clear on where Athens County ends and Meigs begins, but there are towns south on 33 that still look like a scene out of Deliverance. And I can only imagine they're worse off now as the highway lets you drive around them instead of through them. Back to Top OhioCatFan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 14,618 Status: Offline     RE: Athens County the poorest in the state    Posted: 1/22/2018 7:56:44 PM  DelBobcat wrote: Pataskala wrote: USAT ran a story today about the poorest county in each state and Athens in now the poorest in Ohio: https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/economy/2018/01/22/u... / Besides the obvious effects regarding fundraising, attendance at paid events,etc., any thoughts about how this might impact the university in such areas as recruiting, student enrollment, etc.? I saw this today as well. It's actually been the case for a long time. I work with demographics and I can tell you that Athens is skewed precisely because the university's enrollment makes up such a large proportion of the population. Looking at some different measures of income: Per capita - Athens ranks last Median Household - Athens ranks last Median Family - There are 9 counties lower than Athens Athens has some real poverty problems but the numbers are skewed to make it look worse because of the students. They show up big time in the first two calculations, but are less likely to be counted in the third. Compare it to Adams County, a county with a poverty problem that isn't skewed by students. Athens - Median Household Income: $34221 Median Family Income: $51,101 Adams- Median Household Income: $34709 Median Family Income: $41,904 See the difference? A gap of $7,195 for Adams and $16,880 for Athens. That's the effect you get from the student population. Now that's not to say that Athens County doesn't have a poverty problem, it does. But the statistics are definitely skewed because of the student population. Good analysis, Del. I might add that it's not just OU students that skew the numbers, because Hocking College students do as well. There should be some way to exclude students from these calculations. The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA "It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right." Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org Back to Top MedinaCat General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Lakewood, OH Post Count: 743 Status: Offline     RE: Athens County the poorest in the state    Posted: 1/22/2018 8:07:34 PM  Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote: Uncle Wes wrote: I can remember the days before welfare reform in the 90s when every county in SE Ohio was solidly double digit unemployment counties. With Athens sitting at 4.6 percent unemployment today its at a high water mark economically over the past 30 years. Poverty in Athens County is hundreds of years old. Ask Alan Swank about how 40 years ago making your way from the East Coast to OU was to drive through places in Appalachia that were a scene out of Deliverance. The OP that Athens County has slipped from respectable to destitute in recent years makes no sense. Then with the highway improvements what poverty there is less visible than ever before. Has anyone besides me noticed the improvements on campus and in and around Athens from how it was 20 years ago? The one improvement we need but do not have is a few really nice hotels in town. Driving down Richland and seeing a Westin parents are going to be looking at Athens in a different light. In these days of online marking the regional tourism base is there for nicer hotels to work. They would bring a few more jobs into the county and help the tax base too. I haven't been to Athens in over a decade but when I was there I often drove to Virginia from Athens, which required I drive south on 33 towards Ravenswood/77. I'm not super clear on where Athens County ends and Meigs begins, but there are towns south on 33 that still look like a scene out of Deliverance. And I can only imagine they're worse off now as the highway lets you drive around them instead of through them. Appalachia much? Back to Top Alan Swank General User Member Since: 12/11/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 7,194 Status: Offline     RE: Athens County the poorest in the state    Posted: 1/23/2018 3:00:55 PM  Uncle Wes wrote: I can remember the days before welfare reform in the 90s when every county in SE Ohio was solidly double digit unemployment counties. With Athens sitting at 4.6 percent unemployment today its at a high water mark economically over the past 30 years. Poverty in Athens County is hundreds of years old. Ask Alan Swank about how 40 years ago making your way from the East Coast to OU was to drive through places in Appalachia that were a scene out of Deliverance. The OP that Athens County has slipped from respectable to destitute in recent years makes no sense. Then with the highway improvements what poverty there is less visible than ever before. Has anyone besides me noticed the improvements on campus and in and around Athens from how it was 20 years ago? The one improvement we need but do not have is a few really nice hotels in town. Driving down Richland and seeing a Westin parents are going to be looking at Athens in a different light. In these days of online marking the regional tourism base is there for nicer hotels to work. They would bring a few more jobs into the county and help the tax base too. That's funny that you mention that Wes. I remember when I was the RD in Pickering from 79 - 81, one of our RA's who was from Basking Ridge, NJ, told me about his family's trip out here to check out OU. Admissions routed them across 70 from PA to Zanesville then down 22, to 93, to 13 to Athens. There were several times driving down that curvy two lane hour road that they almost turned around and went back to NJ to choose another school. Back to Top Deciduous Forest Cat General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Ohio Post Count: 4,457 Status: Offline     RE: Athens County the poorest in the state    Posted: 1/23/2018 4:04:55 PM  Can someone offer evidence that students are actually counted as part of this analysis? Doesn't make any sense that they would be unless they had permanent addresses in Athens. I can't imagine anyone living in a dorm would (or should) impact the statistics for Athens county. There are plenty of small towns that host large universities. Do they have similar rankings? Back to Top Alan Swank General User Member Since: 12/11/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 7,194 Status: Offline     RE: Athens County the poorest in the state    Posted: 1/23/2018 5:00:25 PM  Deciduous Forest Cat wrote: Can someone offer evidence that students are actually counted as part of this analysis? Doesn't make any sense that they would be unless they had permanent addresses in Athens. I can't imagine anyone living in a dorm would (or should) impact the statistics for Athens county. There are plenty of small towns that host large universities. Do they have similar rankings? https://www.census.gov/newsroom/blogs/random-samplings/20... Back to Top ou79 General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Post Count: 660 Status: Offline     RE: Athens County the poorest in the state    Posted: 1/27/2018 9:55:42 AM  I agree with Uncle Wes about the motel/hotel issue. It amazes me that I can call the Hampton, Fairfield Inn, Holiday Inn Express and O.U. Inn in the Fall of one year and be told by ALL of them that their rooms for the next Fall are already booked. And when I say ALL, I not only mean All of these businesses, I also mean EVERY room they have. Of course I am then informed that I can go on a "waiting list" to be called if something becomes available. But, if I do get a room, I have to agree to stay for two (2) nights at double or 2x's what the normal room rate actually is for a stay. Bottom line, I try not to spend too much time in Athens and leave when whatever I am there for concludes. Translated, Athens does not get my money. I suspect others approach Athens the same way. Back to Top Alan Swank General User Member Since: 12/11/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 7,194 Status: Offline     RE: Athens County the poorest in the state    Posted: 1/28/2018 11:35:28 AM  ou79 wrote: I agree with Uncle Wes about the motel/hotel issue. It amazes me that I can call the Hampton, Fairfield Inn, Holiday Inn Express and O.U. Inn in the Fall of one year and be told by ALL of them that their rooms for the next Fall are already booked. And when I say ALL, I not only mean All of these businesses, I also mean EVERY room they have. Of course I am then informed that I can go on a "waiting list" to be called if something becomes available. But, if I do get a room, I have to agree to stay for two (2) nights at double or 2x's what the normal room rate actually is for a stay. Bottom line, I try not to spend too much time in Athens and leave when whatever I am there for concludes. Translated, Athens does not get my money. I suspect others approach Athens the same way. They aren't really booked, it's that they will not sell rooms for weekends in September or October until the football schedule is released. That said, I just checked the Hampton for the last weekend in September (UMass) and they have rooms available with a two night stay at $534.60 for two night. Please see below including the 30 day in advance cancellation policy. Rate Details HONORS DISCOUNT EXCLUSIVE HONORS MEMBER SAVINGS WHEN YOU BOOK DIRECT. PLUS, HILTON HONORS MEMBERS GET FREE STANDARD WI-FI HILTON HONORS POINTS TOWARDS FREE NIGHTS, CHOOSE YOUR ROOM AND MORE ALL WHEN YOU BOOK DIRECT THROUGH HILTON. WI-FI IS NOT FREE IN MEETING SPACES OR PROPERTIES WITH A RESORT CHARGE Room: 1 KING HEARING ACCESSIBLE W/SOFABED NOSMOK Adults: 1 Children: 0 DATE PRICE PER NIGHT (USD) 28 Sep 2018 236.55 29 Sep 2018 236.55 Room Subtotal 473.10 Taxes 13.00 % per room per night 61.50 Total for stay 534.60 Rules & Restrictions Taxes 13.00 % per room per night Guarantee Policy This reservation requires a credit card deposit of $534.60 USD which will be charged to your card. If you use a debit/credit card to check in, a hold may be placed on your card account for the full anticipated amount to be owed to the hotel, including estimated incidentals, through your date of check-out and such hold may not be released for 72 hours from the date of check-out or longer at the discretion of your card issuer. Cancellation Policy If you wish to cancel, please do so 30 days prior to arrival to avoid cancellation penalties. At check in, the front desk will verify your check-out date. Rates quoted are based on check-in date and length of stay. Should you choose to depart early, price is subject to change. We reserve the right to cancel or modify reservations where it appears that a customer has engaged in fraudulent or inappropriate activity or under other circumstances where it appears that the reservations contain or resulted from a mistake or error. Totals listed here are estimated based on current taxes and exchange rates (if applicable) and do not include additional fees/charges that may be incurred during your stay. Optional services for an additional charge Parking charges: Self parking - Complimentary, Unsecured lighted. All guests get free standard Wi-Fi in-room and in the lobby. Back to Top BillyTheCat General User Member Since: 10/6/2012 Post Count: 10,284 Status: Offline     RE: Athens County the poorest in the state    Posted: 1/28/2018 1:26:25 PM  Alan Swank wrote: ou79 wrote: I agree with Uncle Wes about the motel/hotel issue. It amazes me that I can call the Hampton, Fairfield Inn, Holiday Inn Express and O.U. Inn in the Fall of one year and be told by ALL of them that their rooms for the next Fall are already booked. And when I say ALL, I not only mean All of these businesses, I also mean EVERY room they have. Of course I am then informed that I can go on a "waiting list" to be called if something becomes available. But, if I do get a room, I have to agree to stay for two (2) nights at double or 2x's what the normal room rate actually is for a stay. Bottom line, I try not to spend too much time in Athens and leave when whatever I am there for concludes. Translated, Athens does not get my money. I suspect others approach Athens the same way. They aren't really booked, it's that they will not sell rooms for weekends in September or October until the football schedule is released. That said, I just checked the Hampton for the last weekend in September (UMass) and they have rooms available with a two night stay at $534.60 for two night. Please see below including the 30 day in advance cancellation policy. Rate Details HONORS DISCOUNT EXCLUSIVE HONORS MEMBER SAVINGS WHEN YOU BOOK DIRECT. PLUS, HILTON HONORS MEMBERS GET FREE STANDARD WI-FI HILTON HONORS POINTS TOWARDS FREE NIGHTS, CHOOSE YOUR ROOM AND MORE ALL WHEN YOU BOOK DIRECT THROUGH HILTON. WI-FI IS NOT FREE IN MEETING SPACES OR PROPERTIES WITH A RESORT CHARGE Room: 1 KING HEARING ACCESSIBLE W/SOFABED NOSMOK Adults: 1 Children: 0 DATE PRICE PER NIGHT (USD) 28 Sep 2018 236.55 29 Sep 2018 236.55 Room Subtotal 473.10 Taxes 13.00 % per room per night 61.50 Total for stay 534.60 Rules & Restrictions Taxes 13.00 % per room per night Guarantee Policy This reservation requires a credit card deposit of $534.60 USD which will be charged to your card. If you use a debit/credit card to check in, a hold may be placed on your card account for the full anticipated amount to be owed to the hotel, including estimated incidentals, through your date of check-out and such hold may not be released for 72 hours from the date of check-out or longer at the discretion of your card issuer. Cancellation Policy If you wish to cancel, please do so 30 days prior to arrival to avoid cancellation penalties. At check in, the front desk will verify your check-out date. Rates quoted are based on check-in date and length of stay. Should you choose to depart early, price is subject to change. We reserve the right to cancel or modify reservations where it appears that a customer has engaged in fraudulent or inappropriate activity or under other circumstances where it appears that the reservations contain or resulted from a mistake or error. Totals listed here are estimated based on current taxes and exchange rates (if applicable) and do not include additional fees/charges that may be incurred during your stay. Optional services for an additional charge Parking charges: Self parking - Complimentary, Unsecured lighted. All guests get free standard Wi-Fi in-room and in the lobby. I can get the same weekend at the Greenbrier Resort for $278.00 per night. What a sham!!!!! For those rates, I'd expect a free shuttle service (NO pun intended here). Back to Top OhioCatFan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 14,618 Status: Offline     RE: Athens County the poorest in the state    Posted: 1/28/2018 1:49:23 PM  BillyTheCat wrote: I can get the same weekend at the Greenbrier Resort for $278.00 per night. What a sham!!!!! For those rates, I'd expect a free shuttle service (NO pun intended here). When our younger daughter was a student at UMich and we stayed at a Hampton Inn in Ann Arbor there was a free shuttle to the stadium! ;-) Also, at the Greenbrier once my wife, on her birthday got a free carriage ride. Better than a shuttle any day! I'll have to agree you get more for you money at the Greenbrier, but then you don't get OHIO football, either. The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA "It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right." Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org Back to Top BillyTheCat General User Member Since: 10/6/2012 Post Count: 10,284 Status: Offline     RE: Athens County the poorest in the state    Posted: 1/28/2018 2:28:15 PM  OhioCatFan wrote: BillyTheCat wrote: I can get the same weekend at the Greenbrier Resort for $278.00 per night. What a sham!!!!! For those rates, I'd expect a free shuttle service (NO pun intended here). When our younger daughter was a student at UMich and we stayed at a Hampton Inn in Ann Arbor there was a free shuttle to the stadium! ;-) Also, at the Greenbrier once my wife, on her birthday got a free carriage ride. Better than a shuttle any day! I'll have to agree you get more for you money at the Greenbrier, but then you don't get OHIO football, either. In West Layaffette several mid range hotels offer free game day shuttles. Back to Top Alan Swank General User Member Since: 12/11/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 7,194 Status: Offline     RE: Athens County the poorest in the state    Posted: 1/28/2018 4:23:55 PM  BillyTheCat wrote: OhioCatFan wrote: BillyTheCat wrote: I can get the same weekend at the Greenbrier Resort for $278.00 per night. What a sham!!!!! For those rates, I'd expect a free shuttle service (NO pun intended here). When our younger daughter was a student at UMich and we stayed at a Hampton Inn in Ann Arbor there was a free shuttle to the stadium! ;-) Also, at the Greenbrier once my wife, on her birthday got a free carriage ride. Better than a shuttle any day! I'll have to agree you get more for you money at the Greenbrier, but then you don't get OHIO football, either. In West Layaffette several mid range hotels offer free game day shuttles. We used to offer "gator shuttles" to Peden from the Green and White tailgates. Back to Top TWT General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Alexandria, VA Post Count: 5,149 Status: Offline     RE: Athens County the poorest in the state    Posted: 1/28/2018 8:47:41 PM  Typical Athens where the local business community squeezes every dollar they possibly can out of their captive audience. There was a proposal in 2016 for a downtown hotel built on the upper floors of the Athens County museum which has since relocated. The plan was 2 new floors to 4 stories (downtown zoning permits up to 6 stories) but with no parking added to a 30 room hotel. Instead of doing it right and razing the site to build underground parking they wanted to valet parking offsite. Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended 2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round 2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl 2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086 Back to Top DelBobcat General User Member Since: 8/26/2010 Location: Cincinnati, OH Post Count: 1,135 Status: Offline     RE: Athens County the poorest in the state    Posted: 1/29/2018 12:09:36 PM  Deciduous Forest Cat wrote: Can someone offer evidence that students are actually counted as part of this analysis? Doesn't make any sense that they would be unless they had permanent addresses in Athens. I can't imagine anyone living in a dorm would (or should) impact the statistics for Athens county. There are plenty of small towns that host large universities. Do they have similar rankings? As Alan's link pointed out, students in dorms aren't the problem because they are considered "group quarters" population, just like folks who are in jail. They're not in "households" or "families" at all, by the Census Bureau's definition. But students in off-campus housing count as "households" and not "families." This is because they all live under the same residential roof (in a non-group quarters situation) BUT they are not related. So they drag down the household income number and not the family income number (unless they ARE related, then they'd be counted in both). It just so happens that because Athens County is a sparsely populated county even by college town standards this effect is exaggerated. For example, it's less of an issue in Oxford because Butler County is way more populous. And yes, other rural college towns like State College see this effect to some degree as well. EDIT: I should note that the Census Bureau is interested in where people actually live, not their permanent address. They want to know where your head is hitting the pillow at night. These numbers are used for funding formulas for all kinds of things. If I'm trying to figure out how much money to give counties for roadway projects I don't care if a student's parents live in Cleveland. That student is in Athens for most of the year and they are using Athens roads, so the money should follow their physical presence. Last Edited: 1/29/2018 12:11:55 PM by DelBobcat BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012 Back to Top Showing Replies:   1 - 20  of 20 Posts Jump to Page:   1 View Other 'General Ohio University Discussion/Alumni Events' Topics                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               WHO'S ONLINE There are 278 Active Visitors on BobcatAttack.com 278 Guests 0 Registered Users There are no other users looking at this page.

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