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General Ohio University Discussion/Alumni Events

Topic: "New" South (No longer new)

Topic: "New" South (No longer new)

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Sean Gallagher
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Member Since: 12/6/2012
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"New" South (No longer new)

Posted: 5/20/2017 10:04:40 PM

Time marches on. I watched Cady, Foster and Brough come down last year. This summer it's Martzolff, O'Blennes and Fenzel. The fences for demolition are already up. http://www.athensnews.com/news/campus/demo-of-more-south-...

I lived in both 226 and 218 Martzolff in '75 to '76. Great times. I'm sure a lot of Bobcats have "new" south memories from when "new" south wasn't "dirty" south.

cbus cat fan
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Member Since: 12/2/2011
Post Count: 1,169

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RE: "New" South (No longer new)

Posted: 5/20/2017 10:23:57 PM

Thanks for the sober update Sean. I didn't realize that my former Sophomore and Junior homes on South Green were leveled. I already feel like an old man telling neighborhood kids familiar with dorm life about non-air conditioned rooms in spring quarter, which went until June and winter time dorm rooms which were either too hot or too cold.

rpbobcat
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Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
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RE: "New" South (No longer new)

Posted: 5/22/2017 6:41:26 AM

When I was at O.U. New South were the only co-ed dorms.

I remember the radical concept of "common areas" for guys and girls (we didn't use the word woman or female back then).

To cbus's comment on A/c in dorms.
I work with F.D.U.
We built a new dorm complex a few years ago.
I've seen hotels with less amenities.

74 Cat
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Member Since: 2/23/2005
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RE: "New" South (No longer new)

Posted: 5/22/2017 7:01:28 AM

Remember when the "new south" dorms did not have names? They were numbered. To figure out which building you wanted to go to, you started at the clock tower and counted buildings until you reached your number.

rpbobcat
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Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
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RE: "New" South (No longer new)

Posted: 5/22/2017 7:30:54 AM

74 Cat wrote:

I completely forgot about that.

Also remember the elevated walkways between the buildings.

When I was at O.U. there were 2 Nelson Commons.
Old Nelson and New Nelson.

My freshman year we ate at Shively after that,Nelson.

(cue Barbara Streisand's "The Way We Were)

Jeff McKinney
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RE: "New" South (No longer new)

Posted: 5/22/2017 1:21:09 PM

I lived in Hoover in 1977, my freshman year. Then spent the next two years on the East Green, my favorite area.

rpbobcat
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Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
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RE: "New" South (No longer new)

Posted: 5/22/2017 1:44:22 PM

Jeff McKinney wrote:

I lived in Hoover in 1977, my freshman year. Then spent the next two years on the East Green, my favorite area.

The East Green was/is beautiful.
Actually have a picture of it as wallpaper on all my computors.

I spent my 3 years at O.U. in Gamertsfelder.
Where did you live ?

Jeff McKinney
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RE: "New" South (No longer new)

Posted: 5/22/2017 5:04:04 PM

Lincoln, at the bottom of Jeff Hill.

akroncat
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Member Since: 7/23/2010
Location: Akron, OH
Post Count: 190

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RE: "New" South (No longer new)

Posted: 5/22/2017 5:07:19 PM

Graduated in 1971. Was a Bushman for 3 years. Great area to live. Those were the days my friend.

rpbobcat
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Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
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RE: "New" South (No longer new)

Posted: 5/23/2017 7:29:44 AM

Was just looking at a listing of Residence Halls on O.U.'s website.

They include Bryan,Voigt and Scott Quad in the East Green.

When I was at O.U. in the mid 70's ,Bryan and Voigt were considered on the College Green.

Scott Quad was kind of like "no man's land".

DelBobcat
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Member Since: 8/26/2010
Location: Cincinnati, OH
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RE: "New" South (No longer new)

Posted: 5/23/2017 10:59:23 AM

rpbobcat wrote:

Interesting. Not sure why the website says that. You're closer to correct than it is. Officially, Bryan and Scott Quad are on College Green--and Voigt is on "North Green."

https://www.ohio.edu/master-plan/upload/Final-CMP-2016-Do...

BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012

mcbin
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Columbus, OH
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RE: "New" South (No longer new)

Posted: 5/28/2017 11:40:29 AM

I'm pretty sure we've covered this in year(s) past, and I'm guessing it's all about $$, but I'm still head scratching a bit about tearing down buildings built in the 70s. My home is around 120 years old, my previous one was ~130, and I remember conversations talking to Mike Johnson about places in Europe that are 600 or so old. Oh well. Hope the ones they build next aren't huge POS that these apparently were.

Smith/Aktinson were my Freshman/Sophomore dorms. I'm assuming they're on the hit-list also.

rpbobcat
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RE: "New" South (No longer new)

Posted: 5/28/2017 2:34:31 PM

mcbin wrote:

I know O.U. said one issue was flooding.
The buildings' living areas were elevated,but the ground levels could be flooded.
Apparently that caused damage.

Mike Johnson
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Location: North Canton, OH
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RE: "New" South (No longer new)

Posted: 5/28/2017 6:41:53 PM

mcbin wrote:

Your memory is good, Ben. In the village of Ribeauville in eastern France I've stayed many times in a home built in 1513 and it is far fr0m the oldest building in the village. My favorite hotel in the world is in Colmar,France and was built in 1609.

http://www.facebook.com/mikejohnson.author

OhioCatFan
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
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RE: "New" South (No longer new)

Posted: 5/28/2017 11:44:48 PM

My wife and I were just talking about this issue earlier today. Why do we always have to tear down old buildings and build new ones when the old ones are sound. My wife is still angry that they tore down her old freshman dormitory -- Howard Hall. It was on the corner of Union and College, across from old Baker, now Schoonover Center. She says it was a very sound building with very large rooms. It had a cafeteria, and she remembers the football team usually ate in the dorm. Back in the day she says the team got steak to eat and they got "mystery meat," but I guess that's a story for another time. This building was built in 1896. It was brick and wall-bearing. Solid as a rock. Yet, it was torn down because President Sowle didn't have the guts to stand up to the Board of Regents who determined that due to a sharp drop in enrollment, OHIO had more space than they should have according to some formula. A strong leader would have said, we'll mothball these buildings until enrollment starts to increase again, which it did a few years later. Super Hall and Ewing Hall and a few others also experienced the wrecking ball during the Sowle building destruction program. Some of these buildings did not go down until a year or two after Sowle left; however, the plans for their destruction took place under the reign of President Distructo. If Howard and Ewing were still standing, the campus would be a much more beautiful and stately looking place. They were both architectural gems.

Look and weep:

http://media.library.ohiou.edu/cdm/ref/collection/archive...

http://media.library.ohiou.edu/cdm/ref/collection/archive...

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

cbus cat fan
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Member Since: 12/2/2011
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RE: "New" South (No longer new)

Posted: 5/29/2017 12:06:13 AM

McBin, Rpbobcat, Mike Johnson, Ohio Cat Fan et al. Don't get me started; Oxford (the real deal in the old country) has buildings still standing that were there when Edwards I (Longshanks) ruled England (some 750-800 years ago.) Yet, we tear down buildings that were built when Nixon was president a mere 45 years ago. It is not as if Oxford hasn't had a flood or two in the last 750-800 years either!

This all leads to another topic about bloated capital expenditures and exorbitant salaries for a few deans, but not for the rank and file--faculty and staff. I wonder if Governor Kasich and his predecessor Governor Strickland ever pondered why university deans made more than them, let alone university presidents. The fact that Urban Meyer makes about 10-20 x what they make is really ridiculous. However, that's probably best saved for another conversation.

Last Edited: 5/29/2017 12:17:53 AM by cbus cat fan

rpbobcat
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Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
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RE: "New" South (No longer new)

Posted: 5/29/2017 9:37:32 AM

cbus cat fan wrote:

Yes,there buildings built a long time ago that are still standing.
There are also a lot that aren't.

Getting back to the 21st century,I've been involved with a number of projects where we had to determine whether to renovate or demolish and rebuild a structure.

In the case of New South, you have to look at how much damage, most notably structural,the dorms sustained from repeated flooding.
Then you look at the costs to repair that damage.

You also have to look at whether the same damage,we call it repetitive loss, will reoccur.

In many cases, especially if future damage can't be prevented,the most prudent/cost effective approach is to demolish and rebuild.

In my opinion, New South never should have been built in a flood plane.

As for some of the other buildings on campus.

They may have been structurally sound. But, when you renovate a public building,they have to be brought up to current codes and standards.
That means sprinklers, barrier free access, including elevators, and bathrooms.
You'll also need central A/C.
Again, in a lot of cases its not cost effective.

Don't get me wrong, I love preserving old strutures ,its just that, when you look at them objectively, some can't be saved.

Last Edited: 5/29/2017 9:42:26 AM by rpbobcat

OhioCatFan
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Location: Athens, OH
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RE: "New" South (No longer new)

Posted: 5/29/2017 3:56:08 PM

Ewing, Howard and Super were not torn down to rebuild, but because of short-sighted panic due to the large enrollment declines of the early to mid '70s. It was almost criminal in my book. And, don't get me started on the tearing down of the Berry Hotel!

BillyTheCat
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Post Count: 9,798

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RE: "New" South (No longer new)

Posted: 5/29/2017 5:09:30 PM

Excuse my ignorace, but weren't the dorms on new south built after the river was redirected? I'm not aware of flood waters reaching that area after the redirect.

rpbobcat
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Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
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RE: "New" South (No longer new)

Posted: 5/29/2017 5:40:08 PM

BillyTheCat wrote:

Excuse my ignorace, but weren't the dorms on new south built after the river was redirected? I'm not aware of flood waters reaching that area after the redirect.

I went to O.U. after they moved the Hocking River.
I never saw the area where the dorms are on New South flood.

There have been a number of stories in The Post about severe flooding,in the area around Peden.Based on the severity and duration of that flooding,I can see those types of floods affecting the ground floors of the New South dorms.

I also looked up the FEMA FIRM Flood Maps for Athens.
They're hard to read,even when "zoomed",but it looks like the New South is still located in a 100 year Flood Zone.

Last Edited: 5/29/2017 6:39:09 PM by rpbobcat

The Optimist
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Location: CLE
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RE: "New" South (No longer new)

Posted: 5/29/2017 8:56:26 PM

BillyTheCat wrote:

Excuse my ignorace, but weren't the dorms on new south built after the river was redirected? I'm not aware of flood waters reaching that area after the redirect.

From clicking on the individuals houses at this link, it looks like most of these dorms went up between 68 and 70. The flood of 68 appears to be what prompted the reroute and it was completedin 71.
https://www.ohio.edu/athens/greens/sgreen.html

From my experience long after the river was moved, South Green was still extremely "wet" to the point I could envision structural damage. The inside of those dorms weren't well up-kept, but that might just be the West Green elitist in me talking.

I've seen crazier things happen.

rpbobcat
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Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
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RE: "New" South (No longer new)

Posted: 5/30/2017 7:23:28 AM

The Optimist wrote:

From my experience long after the river was moved, South Green was still extremely "wet" to the point I could envision structural damage. The inside of those dorms weren't well up-kept, but that might just be the West Green elitist in me talking.

The issue of the South Green being "wet" brought a couple of more things to mind.
(Engineers love this stuff)

Being close to the Hocking,there's going to be high ground water,especially in the spring and fall.
That alone can cause foundation damage.

An additional problem is the underlying soil.
The Post had articles this year about the problems with settlement at Ping,due to the underlying soil being clay.

Clay,in and of itself has stability issues.
Clay acts like a sponge,so add in groundwater and now you have a building sitting on jello.

Mike Johnson
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RE: "New" South (No longer new)

Posted: 5/30/2017 10:19:05 AM

BillyTheCat wrote:

Excuse my ignorace, but weren't the dorms on new south built after the river was redirected? I'm not aware of flood waters reaching that area after the redirect.

Correct. The river was re-routed before New South was built.

In a chat with Rod McDavis about the planned razing of New South - postponed for a year, he said, because of higher enrollment - he cited "slipshod" construction of the New South dorms. Not exactly built to last.

http://www.facebook.com/mikejohnson.author

Mike Johnson
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RE: "New" South (No longer new)

Posted: 5/30/2017 10:36:26 AM

OhioCatFan wrote:

World travels have caused me to conclude that regional or local cultures greatly influence preserve versus raze.

When Europeans first arrived in what we now know as the U.S., there was the knowledge that a person could - and often did - move west. So why expend the effort and expense of building with massive ceiling beams and tile roofs meant to last 200 or more years?

By contrast, in Europe there was no west to move to. Builders knew that solidly built structures would be used for many generations to come.

Some examples that come to mind: Once while in the French village of Ribeauville I was invited to go to the local elementary school on the day when students would be displaying projects. In approaching the building, it was clear that the school was built in the 1800s. Inside? Signs of wear for more than a century - worn floors, scarred doors and some peeling paint. But the exterior? It was virtually pristine. I'm thinking that school will remain in use for at least another century.

My longest standing international friend is a Brit named Peter Bloomfield. We met in 1979 and have visited each other often. He is an alum of Christ's Hospital School that was founded by King Edward VI in 1552 to serve poor boys. (Poor girls were first admitted in 1563.) The initial location was in central London. As enrollment grew and more buildings and land were needed, what is called the "new campus" saw construction begin in the 1890s with the official opening in 1902. Peter, a proud and involved alum, showed me the new campus a few years ago. Today it serves 820 boys and girls. I asked Peter how those 120-year-old buildings could be adequately educating today's youths. They would be deprived of modern science labs, cable hook-ups, etc.

Peter smiled. Not so, he said. In recent years, he related, those buildings had been gutted and re-configured to accommodate modern technology.

"Was any thought given to razing them and building anew?" I asked.

Peter was aghast. "Never!"

http://www.facebook.com/mikejohnson.author

Robert Fox
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Location: Knoxville, TN
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RE: "New" South (No longer new)

Posted: 5/30/2017 12:17:57 PM

OhioCatFan wrote:

Thanks for posting this. I always wondered what Howard Hall looked like (didn't even know that was the name). I once heard a rumor that the building was burned down during the Vietnam protests. Obviously, that's not true. It was a good looking building and would have made that intersection dramatically different in appearance. Would like to see another building go in at that location.

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