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Topic:  "Ohio University’s outgoing president let the school fall in the toilet, trustees told"

Topic:  "Ohio University’s outgoing president let the school fall in the toilet, trustees told"
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RPO R6V
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  Message Not Read  "Ohio University’s outgoing president let the school fall in the toilet, trustees told"
   Posted: 9/2/2016 8:32:37 AM 
http://www.thecollegefix.com/post/28846 /

Last Edited: 9/2/2016 8:33:04 AM by RPO R6V
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Jeff Johnson
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  Message Not Read  RE: "Ohio University’s outgoing president let the school fall in the toilet, trustees told"
   Posted: 9/3/2016 8:58:00 AM 
Sixty-four views and no comments? I would have thought this article would have raised some hackles here. I took the article as an unworthy hit piece by a college student who didn't bother to do any serious research.

My observations, from afar, are that McDavis has done a reasonably good job of running the University given the subsidy cuts dictated by the state legislature, and other economic winds that have caused us all headaches.

Jeff Johnson '67, Albuquerque, New Mexico
Back in the Land of Enchantment

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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: "Ohio University’s outgoing president let the school fall in the toilet, trustees told"
   Posted: 9/3/2016 10:46:57 AM 
Jeff Johnson wrote:
Sixty-four views and no comments? I would have thought this article would have raised some hackles here. I took the article as an unworthy hit piece by a college student who didn't bother to do any serious research.

My observations, from afar, are that McDavis has done a reasonably good job of running the University given the subsidy cuts dictated by the state legislature, and other economic winds that have caused us all headaches.


The article's author is far from a college student. That said, there have been some good things and not so good things during the past 13 years. The one do over would be to establish the Appalachian scholars program first rather than the Urban scholars program.

Greg Piper
Associate Editor
Greg spent several years as a technology policy reporter and editor for Warren Communications News in Washington, D.C., and guest host on C-SPAN’s “The Communicators.” Previously he led media and public relations at Seattle’s Discovery Institute, a free-market think tank. Greg is developing a Web series about a college newspaper, COPY, whose pilot episode was a semifinalist in the TV category for the Scriptapalooza competition in 2012. He graduated in 2001 with a B.A. from Seattle Pacific University, where he co-founded the alternative newspaper PUNCH and served as a reporter, editor and columnist for The Falcon.

Last Edited: 9/3/2016 10:48:16 AM by Alan Swank
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Jeff Johnson
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  Message Not Read  RE: "Ohio University’s outgoing president let the school fall in the toilet, trustees told"
   Posted: 9/3/2016 2:42:11 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
Jeff Johnson wrote:
Sixty-four views and no comments? I would have thought this article would have raised some hackles here. I took the article as an unworthy hit piece by a college student who didn't bother to do any serious research.

My observations, from afar, are that McDavis has done a reasonably good job of running the University given the subsidy cuts dictated by the state legislature, and other economic winds that have caused us all headaches.


The article's author is far from a college student. That said, there have been some good things and not so good things during the past 13 years. The one do over would be to establish the Appalachian scholars program first rather than the Urban scholars program.

Greg Piper
Associate Editor
Greg spent several years as a technology policy reporter and editor for Warren Communications News in Washington, D.C., and guest host on C-SPAN’s “The Communicators.” Previously he led media and public relations at Seattle’s Discovery Institute, a free-market think tank. Greg is developing a Web series about a college newspaper, COPY, whose pilot episode was a semifinalist in the TV category for the Scriptapalooza competition in 2012. He graduated in 2001 with a B.A. from Seattle Pacific University, where he co-founded the alternative newspaper PUNCH and served as a reporter, editor and columnist for The Falcon.


My mistake, although the masthead (The College Fix: Student Reported...etc.) is therefore a bit misleading and I did not observe that the editors are not students.

By the way, I agree that it would have been better to establish the Appalachian Scholars program first.

Last Edited: 9/3/2016 2:44:19 PM by Jeff Johnson

Jeff Johnson '67, Albuquerque, New Mexico
Back in the Land of Enchantment

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Pete Chouteau
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  Message Not Read  RE: "Ohio University’s outgoing president let the school fall in the toilet, trustees told"
   Posted: 9/5/2016 6:05:58 PM 
“If we don’t have a diverse faculty and staff, we can’t diversify the student body,” this person said. (I’m not naming “them” – preferred pronoun – because “they” refuse to capitalize “their” name, which is about as self-obsessed as you get.)
---
This direct copy from the piece completely voids any salient point the author set out to make.

It's quite clear there's some agenda being served.
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Jeff McKinney
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  Message Not Read  RE: "Ohio University’s outgoing president let the school fall in the toilet, trustees told"
   Posted: 9/6/2016 10:44:51 AM 
Reads like a propaganda piece to me.
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Toast
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  Message Not Read  RE: "Ohio University’s outgoing president let the school fall in the toilet, trustees told"
   Posted: 9/13/2016 2:22:05 PM 
looks like a bunch of garbage... and that's being nice.

Ohio University-the original OU

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TWT
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  Message Not Read  RE: "Ohio University’s outgoing president let the school fall in the toilet, trustees told"
   Posted: 9/13/2016 10:12:30 PM 
Ohio has always been a mid tier school with strong liberal arts. One of the issues with attracting better freshman is a perception the school is too liberal. Liberal arts is associated with lower paying career fields in the minds of many middle class parents who want to see junior in business school. The truth is that African History major will end up opening his mind to the third world, decide to go to med school and join the army medical command as a physician going overseas. At the same time that preppy Ohio State business grad can't find a job after college. Ohio's professional programs are good will always be overshadowed by the liberal arts focus. Liberal arts, bohemian college town, liberal on the partying. Ohio will not to be confused with a conservative bible college or corporate thinking Big Ten degree factory.

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2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: "Ohio University’s outgoing president let the school fall in the toilet, trustees told"
   Posted: 9/16/2016 10:51:53 PM 
Not sure, Wes, exactly what you mean here. OHIO has been moving away from the liberal arts focus for several decades. Look where the growth has been -- health sciences, various communication disciplines, engineering, etc.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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TWT
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  Message Not Read  RE: "Ohio University’s outgoing president let the school fall in the toilet, trustees told"
   Posted: 9/17/2016 10:04:03 AM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
Not sure, Wes, exactly what you mean here. OHIO has been moving away from the liberal arts focus for several decades. Look where the growth has been -- health sciences, various communication disciplines, engineering, etc.


Your perspective is that professional programs are a better gage for university strength and since Ohio has a higher percentage of professional programs today that makes it better than a liberal arts college. For Ohio HS Counselors ranked it #117, Business #133, Engineering #135 and overall #146. None of those rankings are bad but the academic reputation by counselors exceeds the professional programs. Cincinnati is rated #84 in Engineering, #114 in Business, #135 in Overall and #173 by HS Counselors. In the case of UC their professional programs exceed the overall reputation of the school. At Ohio between the strong liberal arts and the liberal college town environment it overshadows the professional schools. I was a professional major but I picked Ohio because I liked that it had a liberal arts college atmosphere. Today's typical helicopter parent that sends their kid to Ohio State attended a small liberal arts college, got into sales where their career leveled off wishing they had a business degree from OSU. Parents are linking the Big Ten corporate brand with higher paying corporate salaries over the traditional liberal arts education that once had prestige but "failed" the corporate ladder.

Last Edited: 9/17/2016 10:05:42 AM by TWT

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2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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DelBobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: "Ohio University’s outgoing president let the school fall in the toilet, trustees told"
   Posted: 9/19/2016 11:44:52 AM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
Not sure, Wes, exactly what you mean here. OHIO has been moving away from the liberal arts focus for several decades. Look where the growth has been -- health sciences, various communication disciplines, engineering, etc.


Ohio does have good professional programs, but it still has a very strong liberal arts focus. Our degree requirements provide a broader education than those at the other state institutions, and that is a very good thing. I think the liberal arts nature of our education at Ohio creates thoughtful, caring, productive members of society.

BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012
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DelBobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: "Ohio University’s outgoing president let the school fall in the toilet, trustees told"
   Posted: 9/19/2016 11:47:17 AM 
Pete Chouteau wrote:
“If we don’t have a diverse faculty and staff, we can’t diversify the student body,” this person said. (I’m not naming “them” – preferred pronoun – because “they” refuse to capitalize “their” name, which is about as self-obsessed as you get.)
---
This direct copy from the piece completely voids any salient point the author set out to make.

It's quite clear there's some agenda being served.


This made me curious about the LGBT Director so I did some googling. delfin bautista is their name. I wonder why no capitalization?

BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: "Ohio University’s outgoing president let the school fall in the toilet, trustees told"
   Posted: 9/19/2016 12:22:30 PM 
DelBobcat wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Not sure, Wes, exactly what you mean here. OHIO has been moving away from the liberal arts focus for several decades. Look where the growth has been -- health sciences, various communication disciplines, engineering, etc.


Ohio does have good professional programs, but it still has a very strong liberal arts focus. Our degree requirements provide a broader education than those at the other state institutions, and that is a very good thing. I think the liberal arts nature of our education at Ohio creates thoughtful, caring, productive members of society.


Sorry,but if I'm hiring an engineer,I want someone with enough technical background to be able to do their job when they're hired.

To me,getting a job in your field makes you a productive member of society.

Thoughtful and caring sounds nice,unless other graduates,with the same degree, who could concentrate on classes their field,are able to get the best jobs.

If a student wants to take non technical classes,that's fine.
But I am against forcing science and engineering students to take a number of liberal arts classes,rather then courses related to their field.

That,is nothing more then a "liberal arts professors' full employment act".



Last Edited: 9/19/2016 12:23:14 PM by rpbobcat
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TWT
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  Message Not Read  RE: "Ohio University’s outgoing president let the school fall in the toilet, trustees told"
   Posted: 9/19/2016 10:18:10 PM 
What they say at Virginia Tech is that engineering school is business school. If you want to make it in construction starting out as a civil engineer is the way to go. Likewise Mechanical Engineering for manufacturing, or Electrical Engineering for technology. Ohio might be best to put all of its extra resources into the Engineering school to build a reputation as a strong science university because strong liberal arts at Ohio will never be in question. Already 20% at Ohio are in a STEM major above the national average of 14% but if they could throw up a nice amount of impressive new buildings for the sciences it could make Ohio thought of as a place to be. Take additional OU Foundation money to sponsor research instead of having to compete all the time with other universities for grants.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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DelBobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: "Ohio University’s outgoing president let the school fall in the toilet, trustees told"
   Posted: 9/20/2016 11:44:09 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:
DelBobcat wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Not sure, Wes, exactly what you mean here. OHIO has been moving away from the liberal arts focus for several decades. Look where the growth has been -- health sciences, various communication disciplines, engineering, etc.


Ohio does have good professional programs, but it still has a very strong liberal arts focus. Our degree requirements provide a broader education than those at the other state institutions, and that is a very good thing. I think the liberal arts nature of our education at Ohio creates thoughtful, caring, productive members of society.


Sorry,but if I'm hiring an engineer,I want someone with enough technical background to be able to do their job when they're hired.

To me,getting a job in your field makes you a productive member of society.

Thoughtful and caring sounds nice,unless other graduates,with the same degree, who could concentrate on classes their field,are able to get the best jobs.

If a student wants to take non technical classes,that's fine.
But I am against forcing science and engineering students to take a number of liberal arts classes,rather then courses related to their field.

That,is nothing more then a "liberal arts professors' full employment act".



I don't think it has to be either/or. Bobcats are graduating with engineering degrees and are just as qualified as any other grads from other schools, but they also have the strong liberal arts focus that many others don't. If I'm interviewing candidates that well-rounded education is going to shine through. It goes the other way too. People with humanities degrees have to take some science classes, because we should all have some level of science knowledge.

A university education is about more than just getting a job though. It is about bettering ourselves. I disagree that thoughtful and caring are just nice to haves. If we were all a little more thoughtful and caring, we'd be better off as a society. Also, getting back to employment, being able to think things through rationally and deliberately is the number one skill I want from any job applicant--no matter the field.

BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: "Ohio University’s outgoing president let the school fall in the toilet, trustees told"
   Posted: 9/20/2016 2:05:03 PM 
DelBobcat wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
DelBobcat wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Not sure, Wes, exactly what you mean here. OHIO has been moving away from the liberal arts focus for several decades. Look where the growth has been -- health sciences, various communication disciplines, engineering, etc.


Ohio does have good professional programs, but it still has a very strong liberal arts focus. Our degree requirements provide a broader education than those at the other state institutions, and that is a very good thing. I think the liberal arts nature of our education at Ohio creates thoughtful, caring, productive members of society.


Sorry,but if I'm hiring an engineer,I want someone with enough technical background to be able to do their job when they're hired.

To me,getting a job in your field makes you a productive member of society.

Thoughtful and caring sounds nice,unless other graduates,with the same degree, who could concentrate on classes their field,are able to get the best jobs.

If a student wants to take non technical classes,that's fine.
But I am against forcing science and engineering students to take a number of liberal arts classes,rather then courses related to their field.

That,is nothing more then a "liberal arts professors' full employment act".



I don't think it has to be either/or. Bobcats are graduating with engineering degrees and are just as qualified as any other grads from other schools, but they also have the strong liberal arts focus that many others don't. If I'm interviewing candidates that well-rounded education is going to shine through. It goes the other way too. People with humanities degrees have to take some science classes, because we should all have some level of science knowledge.

A university education is about more than just getting a job though. It is about bettering ourselves. I disagree that thoughtful and caring are just nice to haves. If we were all a little more thoughtful and caring, we'd be better off as a society. Also, getting back to employment, being able to think things through rationally and deliberately is the number one skill I want from any job applicant--no matter the field.


First off,I'm not saying that an engineering degree shouldn't include any Liberal Arts classes.
What I do see is that,in many Universities,the core Liberal Arts classes account for about 1/4 of the total degree credit hours.
To me,that's too many for an engineering or science degree.

As far being "qualified",lets say it takes "x" amount of credit hours to get an engineering degree at school "A" and school "B".
School "A" requires more credit hours in Liberal Arts then school "B".
To me,if a student from school "B" has taken more technical courses related to his major,he has a leg up on getting a job in his/her field then the student who didn't.

The dilution of engineering degrees with Liberal Arts classes has gotten so bad that there is push to require engineering graduates to get either a Masters Degree or complete 30 hours of graduate level courses (B+30) to qualify to take the exams needed to become licensed as a Professional Engineer.

I also have a different opinion on the purpose of getting a university education.
I busted my hump to get my engineering degrees for one purpose,a career.

I chair F.D.U's Industrial Advisory Committee For Civil and Construction Engineering Technology.
The issue of how many Liberal Arts classes should be required for an Engineering Degree is a topic that comes up,every time we have to review a program's course breakdown.

One of the things we do is invite representatives of companies to our meetings to inquire what they are looking for when they hire new graduates.

Never heard anyone mention that they wanted an applicant being "well rounded".
What we do hear is that,at least for graduates just entering the work force, they want to know what engineering classes they took and,almost as important,what kind of work ethic do they have,including did they spend their summers working in something related to their field,or "at the beach".

As far as being able to think rationally and deliberately,that's pretty much the definition of an engineer.


Last Edited: 9/20/2016 2:07:10 PM by rpbobcat
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: "Ohio University’s outgoing president let the school fall in the toilet, trustees told"
   Posted: 9/20/2016 10:55:16 PM 
FDU - would that be Fairly reDiculous University? Couldn't resist because that's what we used to call it in the 70's and 80's.

As for 1/4 liberal arts classes, there is no substitute for the ability to read, write, speak, and compute and to be a creative problem solver. Those folks are in great demand today. In fact, I need four of them.
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: "Ohio University’s outgoing president let the school fall in the toilet, trustees told"
   Posted: 9/21/2016 7:05:12 AM 
Alan Swank wrote:
FDU - would that be Fairly reDiculous University? Couldn't resist because that's what we used to call it in the 70's and 80's.

As for 1/4 liberal arts classes, there is no substitute for the ability to read, write, speak, and compute and to be a creative problem solver. Those folks are in great demand today. In fact, I need four of them.


Allan,
Actually,that's what a lot of people out here still call F.D.U.
At one time the University sold tee shirts that said it.

I agree 100% that it is essential that all students have the ability to read,write speak and compute.

As I said before,I do believe that an engineering program should include some non technical classes like English,History and Government .My problem is that forcing students to take a lot non technical classes dilutes their major.
This can put them at a disadvantage in the job market.

One thing we're tying to do at F.D.U. is combine certain of the above skills into classes related to engineering.

For example,engineering students have to a take a class in technical (specification/contract) writing.
They also,as part of their design classes,are taught how to give oral presentations on their projects.

One approach is having lecturers from other departments work with students on their writing and speaking skills as part of those classes.

To me its about finding a balance.

I was lucky,when I was at F.D.U. you were allowed to substitute a technical elective for an elective liberal arts class.
I figured with what they charged per credit hour,the technical elective was more cost effective.

F.D.U. also had a program where graduates could audit any class for free.
After I got my degrees I audited a number of Liberal Arts classes,including a really great one on Shakespeare.
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OUPride
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  Message Not Read  RE: "Ohio University’s outgoing president let the school fall in the toilet, trustees told"
   Posted: 9/21/2016 3:25:34 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
DelBobcat wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Not sure, Wes, exactly what you mean here. OHIO has been moving away from the liberal arts focus for several decades. Look where the growth has been -- health sciences, various communication disciplines, engineering, etc.


Ohio does have good professional programs, but it still has a very strong liberal arts focus. Our degree requirements provide a broader education than those at the other state institutions, and that is a very good thing. I think the liberal arts nature of our education at Ohio creates thoughtful, caring, productive members of society.


Sorry,but if I'm hiring an engineer,I want someone with enough technical background to be able to do their job when they're hired.

To me,getting a job in your field makes you a productive member of society.

Thoughtful and caring sounds nice,unless other graduates,with the same degree, who could concentrate on classes their field,are able to get the best jobs.

If a student wants to take non technical classes,that's fine.
But I am against forcing science and engineering students to take a number of liberal arts classes,rather then courses related to their field.

That,is nothing more then a "liberal arts professors' full employment act".





Then go to DeVry because what you want is vocational training not a university education.

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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: "Ohio University’s outgoing president let the school fall in the toilet, trustees told"
   Posted: 9/21/2016 4:27:38 PM 
OUPride wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
DelBobcat wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Not sure, Wes, exactly what you mean here. OHIO has been moving away from the liberal arts focus for several decades. Look where the growth has been -- health sciences, various communication disciplines, engineering, etc.


Ohio does have good professional programs, but it still has a very strong liberal arts focus. Our degree requirements provide a broader education than those at the other state institutions, and that is a very good thing. I think the liberal arts nature of our education at Ohio creates thoughtful, caring, productive members of society.


Sorry,but if I'm hiring an engineer,I want someone with enough technical background to be able to do their job when they're hired.

To me,getting a job in your field makes you a productive member of society.

Thoughtful and caring sounds nice,unless other graduates,with the same degree, who could concentrate on classes their field,are able to get the best jobs.

If a student wants to take non technical classes,that's fine.
But I am against forcing science and engineering students to take a number of liberal arts classes,rather then courses related to their field.

That,is nothing more then a "liberal arts professors' full employment act".





Then go to DeVry because what you want is vocational training not a university education.


As far as I know,DeVry doesn't offer B.S. degrees in Engineering.
They also don't offer B.S. degrees in Civil,Construction or Mechanical Engineering Technology.

I also don't think that trying to belittle an engineering degree,absent an over abundance of Liberal Arts classes, by referring to it as wanting "vocational training" is appropriate.

From my perspective,the purpose of my getting a "University Education" was to prepare me to be able to get a job in my field of study.
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TWT
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  Message Not Read  RE: "Ohio University’s outgoing president let the school fall in the toilet, trustees told"
   Posted: 9/21/2016 7:27:57 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
OUPride wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
DelBobcat wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Not sure, Wes, exactly what you mean here. OHIO has been moving away from the liberal arts focus for several decades. Look where the growth has been -- health sciences, various communication disciplines, engineering, etc.


Ohio does have good professional programs, but it still has a very strong liberal arts focus. Our degree requirements provide a broader education than those at the other state institutions, and that is a very good thing. I think the liberal arts nature of our education at Ohio creates thoughtful, caring, productive members of society.


Sorry,but if I'm hiring an engineer,I want someone with enough technical background to be able to do their job when they're hired.

To me,getting a job in your field makes you a productive member of society.

Thoughtful and caring sounds nice,unless other graduates,with the same degree, who could concentrate on classes their field,are able to get the best jobs.

If a student wants to take non technical classes,that's fine.
But I am against forcing science and engineering students to take a number of liberal arts classes,rather then courses related to their field.

That,is nothing more then a "liberal arts professors' full employment act".





Then go to DeVry because what you want is vocational training not a university education.


As far as I know,DeVry doesn't offer B.S. degrees in Engineering.
They also don't offer B.S. degrees in Civil,Construction or Mechanical Engineering Technology.

I also don't think that trying to belittle an engineering degree,absent an over abundance of Liberal Arts classes, by referring to it as wanting "vocational training" is appropriate.

From my perspective,the purpose of my getting a "University Education" was to prepare me to be able to get a job in my field of study.


Math and physics are part of College of Arts and Sciences. Engineering is applied science, math and physics classes tailored for a specific area. In some cases you'll take classes out right from the math and physics department. Engineering was a math and physics professors employment act if anything. Engineering schools prepare you for research. Technology degrees are quite different. They don't prepare you to research but qualify you more as a technical manager as a specialized business degree. It has nothing to do with the trades. Most engineers work as managers or consultants in their industries but if they are really good they work in design.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: "Ohio University’s outgoing president let the school fall in the toilet, trustees told"
   Posted: 9/22/2016 7:27:26 AM 
Uncle Wes wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
OUPride wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
DelBobcat wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Not sure, Wes, exactly what you mean here. OHIO has been moving away from the liberal arts focus for several decades. Look where the growth has been -- health sciences, various communication disciplines, engineering, etc.


Ohio does have good professional programs, but it still has a very strong liberal arts focus. Our degree requirements provide a broader education than those at the other state institutions, and that is a very good thing. I think the liberal arts nature of our education at Ohio creates thoughtful, caring, productive members of society.


Sorry,but if I'm hiring an engineer,I want someone with enough technical background to be able to do their job when they're hired.

To me,getting a job in your field makes you a productive member of society.

Thoughtful and caring sounds nice,unless other graduates,with the same degree, who could concentrate on classes their field,are able to get the best jobs.

If a student wants to take non technical classes,that's fine.
But I am against forcing science and engineering students to take a number of liberal arts classes,rather then courses related to their field.

That,is nothing more then a "liberal arts professors' full employment act".





Then go to DeVry because what you want is vocational training not a university education.


As far as I know,DeVry doesn't offer B.S. degrees in Engineering.
They also don't offer B.S. degrees in Civil,Construction or Mechanical Engineering Technology.

I also don't think that trying to belittle an engineering degree,absent an over abundance of Liberal Arts classes, by referring to it as wanting "vocational training" is appropriate.

From my perspective,the purpose of my getting a "University Education" was to prepare me to be able to get a job in my field of study.


Math and physics are part of College of Arts and Sciences. Engineering is applied science, math and physics classes tailored for a specific area. In some cases you'll take classes out right from the math and physics department. Engineering was a math and physics professors employment act if anything. Engineering schools prepare you for research. Technology degrees are quite different. They don't prepare you to research but qualify you more as a technical manager as a specialized business degree. It has nothing to do with the trades. Most engineers work as managers or consultants in their industries but if they are really good they work in design.



First off,engineering is math.
That's one thing that,at least at F.D.U.,is stressed from day one.

I'm a Civil/Environmental Engineer.
I use some form of higher level math every day.

The only math I've never had to use is Calculus.
Mechanical and Electrical engineers do.

Still,pretty much all engineering programs make you take 2 years of Calculus.
They're considered "weed out" classes.

A working knowledge of Physics is important,primarily mechanics and thermodynamics.
Engineering majors at F.D.U. take 1 year of "University" Physics.
That means they need to use Calculus.

F.D.U. also requires 1 semester of Chemistry.
A basic knowledge of Chemistry is needed for your classes on water and sewage treatment.
I don't know why,but Chemistry presents all kinds of problems to engineering students.
In fact,we've moved it from the second to seventh semester of the curriculum.

I can only speak to Civil/Environmental Engineers.In those disciplines,most engineers I know started out doing design.This is due in part to the fact that, to qualify to take the exams needed to get a Professional Engineer's License, you need a minimum (usually 5 years) of "acceptable" design experience.
"Acceptable" is the key.
I know people who had to work for 15 years to get 5 years of experience deemed "acceptable" by the state licensing board.

Over time,P.E.'s tend to move up to more supervisory roles.

Engineering technology grads tend to be more "hands on".They are more along the lines of Project Managers,Estimators,etc.,rather then designers.
In most states,you can pursue a P.E. with an Engineering Technology Degree.But you usually need at least 2 more years of "acceptable" experience then with an Engineering Degree.

The majority of Mechanical,Electrical and Industrial Engineers don't pursue a P.E. license so they tend to have a different career path.







Last Edited: 9/22/2016 8:17:55 AM by rpbobcat
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: "Ohio University’s outgoing president let the school fall in the toilet, trustees told"
   Posted: 9/22/2016 10:50:52 AM 
rpbobcat, et al:

I believe the following is at least partially germane to the subject at hand: My father was a math professor, most of his career was spent at OHIO, though he taught for about four years at the United States Naval Postgraduate School after serving in the U.S. Navy in WWII. Though he taught a lot of engineers calculus and other math subjects over the years he often said that he didn't like to teach engineers. He said that, as a general rule, most engineers were only interested in the applications of the math concepts he was teaching and not the theoretical basis behind those concepts. Dad was in his element when he was teaching why a particular formula worked or the reasoning that went into the development of a mathematical construct. He said that most engineers only wanted to understand how to use a formula not why the formula worked. Dad was a "why guy." [He was also an early and forceful voice within the national mathematics association speaking out against the "new math" craze of the 1960s and 70s. That's a subject for another day.]

Last Edited: 9/22/2016 10:54:57 AM by OhioCatFan

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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: "Ohio University’s outgoing president let the school fall in the toilet, trustees told"
   Posted: 9/22/2016 8:26:26 PM 
Rp - on my next trip to New Jersey I'll have to stop by your office. I have the feeling we are very much on the same page. In every field there are basic skills that a person needs to enter the field. From my experience though once a person enters a particular position in a particular company, that company has a way of doing things. That's one of the reasons I believe a broad liberal arts education with an intense concentration in one area best prepares one for a career. If that career doesn't work out, at least they have the skill set to function in society and move to something else.
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TWT
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  Message Not Read  RE: "Ohio University’s outgoing president let the school fall in the toilet, trustees told"
   Posted: 9/22/2016 9:27:15 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
rpbobcat, et al:

I believe the following is at least partially germane to the subject at hand: My father was a math professor, most of his career was spent at OHIO, though he taught for about four years at the United States Naval Postgraduate School after serving in the U.S. Navy in WWII. Though he taught a lot of engineers calculus and other math subjects over the years he often said that he didn't like to teach engineers. He said that, as a general rule, most engineers were only interested in the applications of the math concepts he was teaching and not the theoretical basis behind those concepts. Dad was in his element when he was teaching why a particular formula worked or the reasoning that went into the development of a mathematical construct. He said that most engineers only wanted to understand how to use a formula not why the formula worked. Dad was a "why guy." [He was also an early and forceful voice within the national mathematics association speaking out against the "new math" craze of the 1960s and 70s. That's a subject for another day.]


That's because engineers have to go from a graduate level theoretical math class and turn around with 5 more heavy duty classes where the Math major is taking 3 math classes and a bunny degree requirement class. Part of engineering is the ability to grind out work and make deadlines. I have an Uncle who is a long time VP of a construction firm and was a good consulting engineer before that and he spends his time delivering for customers. What he's achieved to be a VP of a construction company was nothing uncommon for a Civil Engineer with 25+ years of experience. Some in liberal arts career paths have no clue as to what an industry career actually is. What to expect from someone at 5, 10, 15 years of experience working in industry. They don't understand it at all.

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