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Topic: Does this make sense?

Topic: Does this make sense?

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Monroe Slavin
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Does this make sense?

Posted: 1/6/2016 8:02:12 PM

Let's say that we hire a new coach for ones. Let's say that there's some buzz about this coach, that he or she seems to have had success elsewhere. And that he or she is paid pretty well (compared to other coaches at OHIO and in the MAC).

Let's admit that the MAC is a relatively weak conference. I think that's true for most sports when comparing all of the D1 conferences.

Let's say that coach doesn't bring home a MAC title for many years.

Have there been many coaches like that at Ohio recently?

How would people feel about that, espec vs. recently hired OHIO coaches who have won a MAC recently?

Clearly, I'm describing Solich. I think that, if people will take remove their prejudices, that the situation as I've described it is reasonably, objectively true.

The almost 100% free pass that Solich gets--I just don't understand it.

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mid70sbobcat
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RE: Does this make sense?

Posted: 1/7/2016 7:54:25 AM

Let's see ...

Solich 57% win percentage
Knorr 24%
Grobe 50%
Lichtenberg 14%
Bryant 18%
Burke 48%
Kappes 27%

Well, we've gone back 40 years and Frank has won 14% MORE games than any other coach. If we go back further we see Hess was at 54%, approaching Frank. So that encompasses almost 60 years.

So I don't think your post makes any sense. Rather just yet one MORE post that is merely rewording what you've posted for a long, long time. Maybe you'd rather roll the dice and see if we can go back to someone who wins less than 20% of their games.

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Does this make sense?

Posted: 1/7/2016 12:10:48 PM

Is the hiring criteria win a greater % than a lot of coaches who were not very good or win a MAC title?

I'm trying for a level headed discussion here. I'm sorry that you seem to bring all the heat from other discussions here.

Baseball, volleyball, women's hoops are three programs that I can think of where new coaches came in and won a MAC title quite quickly. Volleyball had a pretty strong tradition but baseball and women's hoops were coming off down periods.

Solich was hailed yet hasn't brought a MAC title.

You didn't argue with my thesis that the MAC is a rather weak league.

Using a take-the-emotion out look, is the very high regard that almost all who post on these threads seem to have for Solich appropriate?

cc-cat
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RE: Does this make sense?

Posted: 1/7/2016 12:26:13 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

The almost 100% free pass that Solich gets--I just don't understand it.

We know you don't get it - that's okay.

And as has been discussed over and over regardless of one's view of the current state of the program....It is not a "free pass" - it is currently a $1.4 million pass. So cough up $1.4 to Schaus and then you can have a seat at the table.

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Does this make sense?

Posted: 1/7/2016 1:53:26 PM

I get that cc. I doubt that any of us has $1.4mm. So, there's no discussion there.

That's not what I'm trying to get at. I'm wondering what it is about Solich and football that seem to bring special treatment. If you're not interested in that, that's okay.

I am. I'm truly, dispassionately trying to find out what seems to make football different.

Would people be okay with no MAC in 11 years in the other sports?

mid70sbobcat
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RE: Does this make sense?

Posted: 1/7/2016 2:04:46 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

No Monroe I bring FACTS (as in current and past coaches win percentage). As usual you like to cherry pick numbers (in this case MACC).

As far as MAC strength .. the MAC is the MAC. Whether it's weak, mediocre, average or whatever is irrelevant. We are competing against similar schools and going after a lot of the same athletes. Just as the SEC (ACC, fill in any other) competes against like teams. All conferences have weak teams.

Last FACT Monroe ... Frank has done more for Ohio football than anyone else in the last half century.

Frank has 11 years here. There are 13 teams in the MAC for football. So on average how often might one expect a MACC? Once every 13 years? So he has another couple years. Not sure of your obsession and fixation on a MACC. Lots of other ways to assess a team.

I've suggested you contact McDavis and self nominate yourself to replace Frank. While you're at it maybe tell him Schaus is doing a bad job too since you're so unhappy with the status of football.

mid70sbobcat
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RE: Does this make sense?

Posted: 1/7/2016 2:07:52 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

I'm wondering what it is about Solich and football that seem to bring special treatment. If you're not interested in that, that's okay.

I am. I'm truly, dispassionately trying to find out what seems to make football different.

Would people be okay with no MAC in 11 years in the other sports?

What special treatment? How many coaches have we FIRED that had decent winning percentages? I can't think of any but I won't waste my time.

cc-cat
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RE: Does this make sense?

Posted: 1/7/2016 2:23:29 PM

I know of five reasons why is makes sense - and I'm sure there are more:

1). our long, long, long, painful history of complete and utter incompetence in the sport has set the bar very low. Folks have posted the W/L records for the past 50 years. The fact we have winning records under Frank is a startling historic situation. You echo the "past 40 months", sorry chap, last 40 years trumps your pain with most others - none of whom give a flying rip that you don't like the the quality of the wins or who they are against. "Ball State sucks? Well they did when I was in school as well - yet they still kicked our ass. Thank God Frank is winning games."

2). There is limited passion for football at the school and, therefore with alumni. There are fans, but it is not a life/death relationship ala at a factory, or even a school with a tradition in the sport (App State would be such an example). "Okay the bands done, let's go."

3). it is a social sport for many - note the departure at halftime - limited angst if we win or lose. Many alum come to games to return to Athens - the place they love, not live and die with the team.

4). The fact that we are on TV and going to bowl games presents (whether die hard fans buy it or not) that the program is quite healthy. I made the prediction in another thread and stand by it -- if we surveyed 100 casual alumni/fans, I would bet that the vast majority are pleased with program, and believe that Frank has won at least one MACC - why? "I see them on TV now and we are going to bowl games, we never did that while I was in school. Hell we were in Sports Illustrated a couple years ago."

5). the growth of the overall infrastructure also is attributed to Frank and his success.

Consequently, Frank gets (in your perspective) a "pass." Wheres the majority of fans look at it and say, "hell, he's done better than anyone else ever did - and people I talk to actually know who he is."

Finally, because of the points above (and I'm sure there are more), any major boosters we have isn't going to direct dollars to the removal of Frank, and even if there was an inquiry, Schaus would redirect the funds to a more needed infrastructure need. Why? See points 1-5.

What you generally "don't get" is that you don't want the above to be accurate - but it is. And you want to try to convince others otherwise - which you can't (on this board and certainly not beyond). 40 years out weighs 40 months.

Now compare the above points to hoops: where there is a history of success, where we consider ourselves more of a "basketball school." Where it is more than social, not as many fans, but more passionate and involved. And the fact that only one team from the MAC makes the dance. There is first and everyone else.

So, that's why. You can not like it, you can rail on it, but you can't change history and you can't change OUr culture.

Now does it make sense?

Last Edited: 1/7/2016 2:46:11 PM by cc-cat

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Does this make sense?

Posted: 1/7/2016 4:24:35 PM

mid70's: I asked that the emotion be taken out. It appears that you don't go that way. Even in your response, somewhat ironically, you admit that Solich is an average MAC coach and not the paragon that so many on the football threads think he is.

cc--For the very greater part, your response gives an answer to my 'why.' I think though that it's fair to say--significantly for the reasons you state and others that others may add--that football and Solich are viewed differently from other sports.

To me, it doesn't make much sense. We spend the most money on football and it would seem that the first and foremost goal is a MAC title.

It's quite interesting to me that those who post on this board--those people whose attitude we're discussing, whose attitudes are discernible-- would, in theory, be the most avid fans. The fans most hungry for a MACC. But apparently not. Apparently the things you state, cc, are more valued than a MACC.

Robert Fox
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RE: Does this make sense?

Posted: 1/7/2016 5:00:23 PM

Maybe not winning a MACC won't make our fans sore.
Maybe, just maybe, Ohio Football means a little bit more.

Alan Swank
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RE: Does this make sense?

Posted: 1/7/2016 5:21:01 PM

cc-cat wrote:

2). There is limited passion for football at the school and, therefore with alumni. There are fans, but it is not a life/death relationship ala at a factory, or even a school with a tradition in the sport (App State would be such an example). "Okay the bands done, let's go."

3). it is a social sport for many - note the departure at halftime - limited angst if we win or lose. Many alum come to games to return to Athens - the place they love, not live and die with the team.

These are very accurate and astute observations = especially the "social" comment - something to do four to six times a year. Another couple of average years and I'm afraid the same may happen in basketball.

cc-cat
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RE: Does this make sense?

Posted: 1/7/2016 5:34:07 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

It's quite interesting to me that those who post on this board--those people whose attitude we're discussing, whose attitudes are discernible-- would, in theory, be the most avid fans. The fans most hungry for a MACC. But apparently not. Apparently the things you state, cc, are more valued than a MACC.

To be honest, the 50 on this board are irrelevant in the scheme of the overall fan base. So I am discussing the overall fan base - they are greater in number and greater in financial value (though I think this board generally thinks the same). Yes, Athens, culture, school pride, friends, tailgating, consistently winning games for the first time in 1/2 century, seeing Ohio on TV, having folks know who OHIO is... are valued by soooooooo many more than you and a few others on this board - because of the points I highlighted. You always seem to want to make it into an issue ("more valued" - so as to set with disdain anyone who doesn't curse the years without an MACC). Would all like to see the Cats lift a trophy in Detroit? Sure (and many probably think we have), but they are not obsessing over it. Compared to our history....Hell As a point of reference, when my father was alive he followed the Cats because I went to Ohio. He said he used to look for the score by looking at the right column of the scores in the paper.

I would say the attitude is more, "Hey we're pretty successful, They'll win one. Honestly, I thought they had. Fire Coach because he hasn't won a what did call it...MACC? Who would think that? We're Ohio, Not LSU. Besides, don't we keep kicking Miami's ass?"

cc-cat
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RE: Does this make sense?

Posted: 1/7/2016 5:55:57 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

To me, it doesn't make much sense. We spend the most money on football and it would seem that the first and foremost goal is a MAC title.

Honestly Monroe, this statement makes me wonder whether you grasps/embrace/remember the ethos and overall culture of the University and the community. That is a statement an accountant living in CA would make, not a statement that someone who has called Athens home would make.

Maybe you have been away from Athens for too long.

Last Edited: 1/7/2016 6:24:52 PM by cc-cat

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Does this make sense?

Posted: 1/7/2016 8:23:39 PM

Well, do we recruit with a pitch that 'you could win a MAC title, 'cause that's what we play for' or do we recruit based on those other things.

cc--you're getting into the emotion again that people who don't share my point of view carry. Just make your points; no need to needle me.

(FWIW, I think a lot of my terse remarks over the years have been in response to those who didn't like my points of view but couldn't find holes in my facts and logic and, so, resulted to venom.)**

Truly, if we are not concerned about a MAC title, for the money being spent, I say end football and pour the saved money (re-direct the scholarships, etc) to academics.

Don't (hello, Alan Swank) charge the students fees to support football. I'm very dubious as to whether the program even breaks even based on true football costs and revenues, apart from student fees and money that we have discretion to move to the program.

If we're not about MAC football championships, then let's be about academic championships. Let's raise our academic standing in a big way.

cc, your parents may follow OHIO FOOTBALL because of you, but I'll bet the number of parents of prospective students who consider academics absolutely dwarfs the number who care about how OHIO FOOTBALL does (though I think a MAC title would add some to the pool of folks who would consider OHIO at all).

**I guarantee you that I lead this website on the number of reasonable, specific, factual questions asked but ignored by people who don't want to admit that my facts and my theories which flow from those facts are correct (for the facts) and make sense (for the theories).

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Does this make sense?

Posted: 1/7/2016 8:28:38 PM

cc-cat wrote:

Monroe Slavin wrote:

To me, it doesn't make much sense. We spend the most money on football and it would seem that the first and foremost goal is a MAC title.

I won't argue what what you say about how people view the program--other than to say that you'll see A WHOLE LOT MORE PEOPLE excited about the University if we do win a title.

But it makes no sense to have a program in a league and not have winning the league title as a goal. Start here: Why keep game scores in that case?

cc-cat
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RE: Does this make sense?

Posted: 1/7/2016 9:52:36 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

Well, do we recruit with a pitch that 'you could win a MAC title, 'cause that's what we play for' or do we recruit based on those other things.

I know for a fact we recruit with a pitch the total Ohio, coaches, environment, academics, community, playing time and yes, you COULD win an MACC and be in bowl games.

Monroe Slavin wrote:

cc--you're getting into the emotion again that people who don't share my point of view carry. Just make your points; no need to needle me.

Sorry to hurt your feelings, but the reality is most fans would think the thought of firing Frank as absurd.

Monroe Slavin wrote:

(FWIW, I think a lot of my terse remarks over the years have been in response to those who didn't like my points of view but couldn't find holes in my facts and logic and, so, resulted to venom.

I use remarks and sarcasm to get my point across - it was simply to drive home that overall fans see no reason to get rid of Frank. not even on their radar screen for the reasons I provided.

Monroe Slavin wrote:

Truly, if we are not concerned about a MAC title, for the money being spent, I say end football and pour the saved money (re-direct the scholarships, etc) to academics.

"Not concerned" Who said not concerned? The point was that others are not obsessed by it for the reasons I presented. Per your other post, where did I or anyone say it was NOT A GOAL? Please show me where that is stated? You asked why it was not the Holy Grail to others, I explained in very real terms why. And you interpret that as NOT A GOAL.

Regarding funds - Feel free to redirect your funds as you see fit.

Monroe Slavin wrote:

cc, your parents may follow OHIO FOOTBALL because of you, but I'll bet the number of parents of prospective students who consider academics absolutely dwarfs the number who care about how OHIO FOOTBALL does (though I think a MAC title would add some to the pool of folks who would consider OHIO at all).

This statement takes the story I told about my deceased father and twists it to prospective students. I'm sure you have a point, but...

Monroe Slavin wrote:

I guarantee you that I lead this website on the number of reasonable, specific, factual questions asked but ignored by people who don't want to admit that my facts and my theories which flow from those facts are correct (for the facts) and make sense (for the theories).

I'll concede the ignored part as true. Their reasoning I'll leave to them.

In closing, I rally think you have lost touch with the ethos and overall culture of the University and the community. Find your way home Monroe. A stroll through College Green and down Court Street does wonders for the soul.

Last Edited: 1/7/2016 11:09:26 PM by cc-cat

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Does this make sense?

Posted: 1/8/2016 2:19:07 AM

Okay. You and all your extraneous stuff win.

Solich can stay here forever and never be held responsible for bringing home a MAC title.

Your comments about me and the culture of Athens are absurd and irrelevant.

Solich was hired to do a job at, likely, the highest employee of the University. I'm evaluating him on that--because it's appropriate.

Have fun with all your off-issue stuff.

Last thought, cc: My understanding is that you own/run a business (right?). I wonder if you let your hires fall back on such as 'culture' if they don't meet goals stated at the time of hire?

I promise you that I'll not post again in this thread.

rpbobcat
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RE: Does this make sense?

Posted: 1/8/2016 8:49:20 AM

I went to O.U. in the mid 1970's and have followed the Bobcats ever since,including when they had that loooong losing streak.

A MAC championship would be nice,but to me its not the "be all/end all" in judging the program.

How I look at O.U. football with FS as head coach:

1.Respectability

2.People going to games for more then the 110

3.Relatively consistent winning seasons

4.Bowl games/T.V.exposure

5.An IPF

6.A new Academic Center

7.Players making it to the NFL

To me,Frank's positives for the program far out weigh any negatives.

Last Edited: 1/8/2016 8:49:56 AM by rpbobcat

mid70sbobcat
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RE: Does this make sense?

Posted: 1/8/2016 11:13:45 AM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

What emotion? I stated FACTS. Please re-read them. PLEASE do. Then point out what you see as emotion!

And it was YOU who stated Frank is getting special treatment, correct? I merely asked what coaches we've fired who had consistent winning percentages. I see you didn't reply to that. So again, HOW is Frank getting special treatment. And for the record your statement is not FACT but an opinion (that he's getting special treatment).

And last, please re-read your posts ... and I hope you'll be able to see that you may have some facts the majority of your posts typically are opinion.

D.A.
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RE: Does this make sense?

Posted: 1/8/2016 12:01:06 PM

Monroe, I know I am not going to sway your opinion, nor am I going to try, but let me make an analogy that is one I feel does an excellent job of addressing your concern. And allow me to posit that you are just taking a position of obstinance and you indeed completely understand why Coach is being retained, and because that is not acceptable from YOUR POV, you are going to continue to make your plea until there is a groundswell of support for your POV that will translate to Jim/Rod feeling pressured by I don't know who to then have Jim/Rod in turn decide to terminate coach.

Since 1985, there has been a somewhat arbitrary rating system for excellence in higher education known as Public Ivy. I personally feel Public Ivy is a rating that OHIO should effort to attain. As long as OHIO is competing in the field of higher education, I feel that being considered as one of the best among your peer institutions is what we should be doing EVERY DAY. Presently, there is one MAC peer and one other Ohio public university that has attained Public Ivy status. I am envious that we are not part of that group of select institutions. Many of the broader group of Public Ivies are state named and state flagship universities, so why shouldn't OHIO strive to be a part of that peer group? This seems very logical to me.

OHIO has employed three Presidents since the Public Ivy distinction was created, and additionally has employed numerous provosts, division heads and the like, not to mention dozens of Trustees and Foundation Board members cycling in and out of service. And to my knowledge, not once has any of them been terminated over OHIO not achieving Public Ivy status.

Now why would that be? I mean, we are competing against those schools every day to succeed at being an elite organization of higher education. I'm not even asking OHIO to be better than those 30 schools, I just feel OHIO needs to be one of those 30. (actually would need to be expanded to 31 to incorporate OHIO) I cannot believe that heads haven't rolled because OHIO hasn't been able to be considered among that peer group. And yet year over year, faculty to administration continue to not achieve the goal of Public Ivy that I feel they should attain, and they all continue to be retained.

It is unconscionable to me that these people clearly must not retain my same vision for the University, because if we are going to compete in the business of higher education, how can we not strive to be on the same level of Miami and tOSU, not to mention exceed their success? How can we not hold ourselves to a standard that says if they are not reaching Public Ivy, then we are failing as an academic program, and in turn institute changes at the top so we can achieve what I feel is the standard OHIO should be achieving annually.

If we are going to be in the business of being a university, then why would we continue to do so with the same faculty and administration year over year if we are not winning a Public Ivy distinction, because after all, isn't that the only measure of success? All I am asking is that we are considered among a peer group of 30, not actually beating those 30!

Now you know the reason why people are not being terminated because we are not winning Public Ivy. It is because that is MY vision/definition of ultimate success for the University, not the vision of those who are tasked with running the organization. And it is clearly not the only definition of success for those running the University, not to mention they do not view not being a Public Ivy as a terminal offense. Beyond that, I have no knowledge of whether or not Public Ivy is on anyone's success metric dashboard at the University, let alone their critical operating task.

The spectrum of wants/desires/expectations to the ultimate measures of success in life are broad and subjective, not to mention a middle of the pack budget Mid American Conference football program that operates in the shadow of arguably the most successful college football program in the history of the sport. Until you know what Coach's performance review and COT's look like and can determine if winning a MACC game is the only/primary objective for the program, and he is not being terminated for not winning it, you are expressing anger and frustration at the wrong people. And after all, we are an academic institution that happens to also participate in D-I sports, and with very meager budgets relative to our peers to boot, so is it really that difficult for you to envision our administration not viewing the MACC in FB as the only metric to gauge the program's success? If so then you need to call Cutler Hall and the Convo. You don't have to answer that, because it clearly is. I am sorry it is causing you so much pain and consternation, and wish for better days for you.

Last Edited: 1/8/2016 2:28:25 PM by D.A.

The Few, The Proud, The Bobcats!

And for the record, I hate tOSU, and Ricordati and Torgerson are DB's.

"This isn't just another walkover from the MAC." Kirk Herbstreit, another DB, on College Football Gameday

cc-cat
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RE: Does this make sense?

Posted: 1/8/2016 12:05:52 PM

mid70sbobcat wrote:

Monroe Slavin wrote:

What special treatment? How many coaches have we FIRED that had decent winning percentages? I can't think of any but I won't waste my time.

"I would like to call Joe Carbone to the witness stand."

"Mr. Carbone, is it correct that 15 years after you last won a MACC and with a lifetime w/l percentage of .530 you finished your career at Ohio" -- "yes that is correct"

"Now for the record. Were you fired, or did you retire?" -- "I retired? It was under my terms"

"Thank you."

Alan Swank
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RE: Does this make sense?

Posted: 1/8/2016 12:19:38 PM

D.A. wrote:

Monroe, I know I am not going to sway your opinion, nor am I going to try, but let me make an analogy that is one I feel does an excellent job of addressing your concern. And allow me to posit that you are just taking a position of obstinance and you indeed completely understand why Coach is being retained, and because that is not acceptable from YOUR POV, you are going to continue to make your plea until there is a groundswell of support for your POV that will translate to Jim/Rod feeling pressured by I don't know who to then have Jim/Rod in turn decide to terminate coach.

Since 1985, there has been a somewhat arbitrary rating system for excellence in higher education known as Public Ivy. I personally feel Public Ivy is a rating that OHIO should effort to attain. As long as OHIO is competing in the field of higher education, I feel that being considered as one of the best among your peer institutions is what we should be doing EVERY DAY. Presently, there is one MAC peer and one other Ohio public university that has attained Public Ivy status. I am envious that we are not part of that group of select institutions. Many of the broader group of Public Ivies are state named and state flagship universities, so why shouldn't OHIO strive to be a part of that peer group? This seems very logical to me.

OHIO has employed three Presidents since the Public Ivy distinction was created, and additionally has employed numerous provosts, division heads and the like, not to mention dozens of Trustees and Foundation Board members cycling in and out of service. And to my knowledge, not once has any of them been terminated over OHIO not achieving Public Ivy status.

Now why would that be? I mean, we are competing against those schools every day to succeed at being an elite organization of higher education. I'm not even asking OHIO to be better than those 30 schools, I just feel OHIO needs to be one of those 30. (actually would need to be expanded to 31 to incorporate OHIO) I cannot believe that heads haven't rolled because OHIO hasn't been able to be considered among that peer group. And yet year over year, faculty to administration continue to not achieve the goal of Public Ivy that I feel they should attain, and they all continue to be retained.

It is unconscionable to me that these people clearly must not retain my same vision for the University, because if we are going to compete in the business of higher education, how can we not strive to be on the same level of Miami and tOSU, not to mention exceed their success? How can we not hold ourselves to a standard that says if they are not reaching Public Ivy, then we are failing as an academic program, and in turn institute changes at the top so we can achieve what I feel is the standard OHIO should be achieving annually.

If we are going to be in the business of being a university, then why would we continue to do so with the same faculty and administration year over year if we are not winning a Public Ivy distinction, because after all, isn't that the only measure of success? All I am asking is that we are considered among a peer group of 30, not actually beating those 30!

Now you know the reason why people are not being terminated because we are not winning Public Ivy. It is because that is MY vision/definition of ultimate success for the University, not the vision of those who are tasked with running the organization. And it is clearly not the only definition of success for those running the University, not to mention they do not view not being a Public Ivy as a terminal offense. Beyond that, I have no knowledge of whether or not Public Ivy is on anyone's success metric dashboard at the University, let alone their critical operating task.

The spectrum of wants/desires/expectations to the ultimate measures of success in life are broad and subjective, not to mention a middle of the pack budget Mid American Conference football program that operates in the shadow of arguably the most successful college football program in the history of the sport. Until you know what Coach's performance review and COT's look like and can determine if winning a MACC game is the only/primary objective for the program, and he is not being terminated for not winning it, you are expressing anger and frustration at the wrong people. And after all, we are an academic institution that happens to also participate in D-I sports, and with very meager budgets relative to our peers to boot, so is it really that difficult for you to envision our administration not viewing the MAAC in FB as the only metric to gauge the program's success? If so then you need to call Cutler Hall and the Convo. You don't have to answer that, because it clearly is. I am sorry it is causing you so much pain and consternation, and wish for better days for you.

Larry Hunter and Greg Werner were fired and they both had very successful winning percentages.

cc-cat
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Member Since: 4/5/2006
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RE: Does this make sense?

Posted: 1/8/2016 2:17:22 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

You asked why folks are not joining you with torches and pitchforks. I gave you some historical and cultural reasons why. I said you would not like them. And wow! I was right.

you're a smart guy - DA is correct - you completely understand why Coach is being retained, and because that is not acceptable from YOUR POV... it is dismissed - as for example - "off-issue stuff.

Whatever - the decision is Schaus' - give him your thoughts - mailto:schaus@ohio.edu

Oh, and to answer your question...allow employees to "fallback" on culture...No, but they better understand it and contribute to it. In fact I have fired folks who have met their metrics, but were damaging/ignorant to the culture. And it was an easy decision each time.

Last Edited: 1/8/2016 2:45:58 PM by cc-cat

D.A.
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RE: Does this make sense?

Posted: 1/8/2016 2:36:23 PM

I have another analogy Monroe, this from the financial sector. You are an astute businessman, so you probably know that Amazon.com has never turned a profit. (http://www.investopedia.com/stock-analysis/031414/amazon-... ) Despite that, the perception is that Amazon is a wildly successful business. They WIN..EVERY DAY! They kill it with top line growth year over year, and the average Joe feels that Amazon is wildly successful. However, most companies will rely on positive measures of RONA/ROIC/etc for a true measure of delivering shareholder value, attempting to increase profits (bottom line) faster than sales. (top line)

So, you are operating a new venture. Hopefully it is proving successful from your perspective. How do you measure success? Now, if you are not measuring it the way Jeff Bezos is, and you actually want to have positive EBITAE and show balance sheet profit, would Jeff Bezos be wrong if he told you you were failing because you were not following the Amazon model?

Last Edited: 1/8/2016 2:53:30 PM by D.A.

D.A.
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RE: Does this make sense?

Posted: 1/8/2016 7:03:44 PM

I�m not certain why I feel as though I should help you understand why most don�t hold the same disdain for the present state of the football program and your subsequent frustration Monroe, perhaps because I believe it must mean a lot to you. So allow me to tell you my personal story of connection with OHIO, and how it has changed over the last decade.

I was marginally associated with OHIO after graduation. I�m from Lancaster, so it has always been easy for me to find reasons to spend a little time in Athens year over year despite living around the country. I gave my first gift to OHIO, albeit modest, the year after I graduated, and havd given modestly year over year since graduation. I have never intentionally missed a year of giving. But with that, I was never ENGAGED with OHIO. I didn�t maintain relationships with faculty and staff, didn�t have connections with other alumni in any significant way, I was truly appreciating Athens from afar. I had always held the opinion that OHIO was a nice, little regional university of which I was proud to attend. I wore the gear, I waxed poetically about bygone times and was always supportive of alma mater, but I never gave back in a meaningful way in �time� nor �talent�.

I was a student athlete at OHIO, but was by no means a success or integral to my team. I RARELY missed a basketball game while in school, and only attended one half of an OHIO football game while at OHIO, and as was tradition left after the 110 performance, missing the come from behind victory against Marshall that was the only victory of the team that season, and one of seven victories during my time on campus. After graduation, I always followed OHIO athletics on the crawl, but only attended a handful of OHIO games in person in the seventeen years after I graduated, those that were regionally convenient. I gave a couple of minor gifts to OHIO athletics after the Victory with Honor campaign was launched, primarily because I felt the mantra was aspirational, and conveyed the way I felt OHIO should pursue its participation in intercollegiate athletics�With Honor.

My entire engagement with OHIO changed the night of September 9th, 2005. I flew up from Tampa to take in this game, which in my mind was seemingly impossible for my alma mater to schedule: an ESPN network broadcast in prime time against a Big East opponent. I wanted to see this new coach in person, a former Big Eight coach. It was inconceivable to me that my proud little regional university could actually have the chutzpah to hire someone who had been a head football coach at such a nationally prominent football powerhouse. And then this happened�https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RN4qpzZ3XEY . I had never attended a game in Peden from start to finish�ever. The team went 4-7. I couldn�t care less if they finished with a losing record that season, and the reason for my indifference on the record: We were now on the national radar. It took balls to make that hire. It took balls to spend the money in an attempt to change the paradigm for OHIO football weekends.

Football is important in the state of Ohio. Every fall Saturday, residents in Ohio have turned to the occupants of the Horseshoe to entertain themselves, and for several decades the leadership in Cutler Hall was more than happy to treat the ICA�s anchor fall sport as an afterthought. They allowed OUr alumni�s interest and disposable income to matriculate to the banks of the Scioto without concern for the long term detrimental impact on OHIO alumni engagement for several decades. This was happening at the very time that the state share of instruction was being reduced, and at the very time that the University could have most benefited from a strong level of engagement with its potential donors. The opportunity for three months each fall to engage your alumni, to bring them back to campus, to foster long term affinity and sow it into donations to build an endowment, completely wasted. Cutler Hall totally whiffed for over two generations.

With the Solich hire, I felt OHIO was sending a holistic message that the institution was now ready to compete on a National scale. And there was now a guy in Cutler Hall in Rod McDavis that, love him or hate him, took on a personal mission to see OHIO transition from a regional institution to a national one. My interests were piqued, and an increase in engagement soon followed. All of the sudden, I wanted to be a part of what was going on in Athens, both athletically and academically. I wanted to be part of the mission in a more tangible and meaningful way.

I really knew very little about our ICA programs, and suddenly I found myself traveling to road games FOR FOOTBALL, a sport that I only supported for about two hours one Saturday in the 1980�s. I experienced the program going from being a complete non-entity to suddenly being covered by national media, not only because of the notoriety of the coach, but also because the results on the field improved. . All the while I was gaining more of an appreciation for the fact that OHIO had never committed a major NCAA violation, and we were really taking our contract with student athletes seriously that we wanted them to come out of college with a degree, and as transformed people. We were competing in a fashion in which I could feel pride. I then became an annual donor to the Bobcat Club and a season ticket holder for football and basketball. I made donations to facility improvement projects and brand new facilities. I had never attended Homecoming in Athens in my life, and evolved to rarely missing it. I attended NCAA tournament games in Providence and Nashville, and I made a planned estate gift to OHIO athletics. These things from a guy who was passively engaged for seventeen years.

Beyond OHIO athletics, I had never attended an alumni event in seventeen years of being an alumnus, and within four years of my reengagement in 2005, I was heading an alumni chapter which was winning national awards for organization and programming. I was attending the Alumni Leaders Conference, during which I was learning more about the academic mission of the University and its desire to increase its national prominence and grown its endowment to achieve greater financial independence. I was nominated for and elected to serve on the Alumni Association�s Board of Directors and asked to serve as Regional Chair for the Promise Lives Campaign. I hosted student forums on campus, hosted student �Dinners with 12 Strangers�, I worked college fairs and housed OHIO students who were on summer internships. And I made a planned estate gift to OHIO to establish an Appalachian Scholarship, and recently helped the Massachusetts Chapter endow a scholarship to benefit a student attending OHIO from New England.

So why am I making such a short story long as it relates to Coach? Because without all the context, the conclusion carries far less gravitas. I am certain most of Coach�s supporter�s stories vary from mine, but that night in 2005 literally changed my life. I have gotten to know some really great people over the last twelve years of re-engagement with OHIO. Dawn Werry, Drew Ossakow, Jim Harris, Rob Norris, Chuck Williams, Pete Chouteau, Ben Shoemaker, Ted Thompson, Tom Freeman, Jeffrey Drozek Fitzwater, Alex Norris, Aaron Stone, Aaron Gary, Terry Lee, Harry White, Tim Merrifield, Kenny Kerr, Lou Horvath, Russ Eisenstein, Rob Cornelius, Evan Shaw, Matt Morton, Jim Schaus, Rod McDavis�AND Frank Solich (for brevity I am leaving out a host of others who shouldn�t feel slighted): all people I really like and have made an impact on my life, and likely none of whom I would have met had Frank not taken the position as head coach. However, beyond the serendipitous nature of Frank and OHIO�s aligning at just the right time to allow me to meet those people, in my humble opinion, Frank has done a phenomenal job at OHIO. And in my humble opinion, the measure of his success is far broader than winning a Mid-American Conference Football Championship game.

To be quite �frank�, my measure for success of the football program has very little to do with winning championships when you consider from where the program has come since 1968. The program is, and continues to be considered nationally relevant. It is indeed now a PROGRAM, not just a team. The program means far more to me than titles. As it relates to the 2015�s season, I felt that the season was both a success, as well as disappointing on some levels. SPOILER ALERT: so does the team! Have we had a few real clunkers over the last two season�s�SURE! But I was more upset about the state of the program when we were having the locker room issues that we were in 2013 than I have been the last two years, when the culture is solid but we are just missing a couple of puzzle pieces to allow us to achieve at a high level. Now if we were experiencing repeated 4-7 seasons such as the one in 2005 and there was clear and absolute turmoil within the program of which I was not proud, I am certain I would be expressing an entirely different sentiment.

We would likely not have the benefit of watching OHIO on ESPN broadcast television as much as we do if Frank was not our coach. The facilities that are in place right now, and those in the works, likely would not have been planned and built without his influence. Homecoming is a much larger event weekend than it was in the decades prior to Frank being our head coach. Attendance and season ticket sales have gone from being a complete non-factors to being MAC leading enterprises. Alumni engagement is up significantly over the last decade, as well as the level of donations, and to some extent that can be attributed to what has happed over twelve, or thirteen, or fourteen weeks each fall over the last decade. But the fact that I didn�t get to see the team carry a trophy to the locker room in Ford Field by no means diminishes the achievements made during the season and over Frank�s tenure, and the profound impact the last decade has had on my life. We�ll win a title, but there are far bigger fish to fry. That is of course, in my humble opinion.

And in full disclosure, my wife and I donated a locker in Frank�s name during the football locker room renovation project as a thank you to all he has done for us, and for OHIO Football.

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