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General Ohio University Discussion/Alumni Events
Topic:  Always Remember

Topic:  Always Remember
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rpbobcat
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Member Since: 4/28/2006
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  Message Not Read  Always Remember
   Posted: 5/4/2023 6:29:51 AM 
May 4,1970
Kent State
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Bobcat Jerry
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  Message Not Read  RE: Always Remember
   Posted: 5/4/2023 9:52:46 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:
May 4,1970
Kent State


Yep, I was there with the tear gas and massive crowds. We coeds were sent home early for the summer and got pass or fail grades for each class. (no finals) The best part was the summer jobs were plentiful being out of school early.

Last Edited: 5/4/2023 9:53:29 AM by Bobcat Jerry
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Cellis033
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Location: Powell, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Always Remember
   Posted: 5/4/2023 12:41:51 PM 
I recently visited Kent since my younger sister attends there and did the audio tour / walked the same route the students when they were protesting. I'm still on the side of it was an egregious decision to fire on the crowd. I cannot imagine how frightening it was for people there when they suddenly opened fire. A few of the students killed / injured were just walking to class.

They have a picture at Alden that shows the protest that took place on College Green soon after that happened.

Last Edited: 5/4/2023 12:42:24 PM by Cellis033

Chase
OU Engineering Technology and Management '24
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Kant read, Kant write
Bowling Green Normie School
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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Always Remember
   Posted: 5/4/2023 1:53:14 PM 
It was an egregious decision to allow the guard on campus with loaded weapons, period. But our governor wanted to pander to the 1970 MAGA crowd so he could be elected to the U.S. Senate.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Always Remember
   Posted: 5/4/2023 2:53:05 PM 
Cellis033 wrote:
I recently visited Kent since my younger sister attends there and did the audio tour / walked the same route the students when they were protesting. I'm still on the side of it was an egregious decision to fire on the crowd. I cannot imagine how frightening it was for people there when they suddenly opened fire. A few of the students killed / injured were just walking to class.

They have a picture at Alden that shows the protest that took place on College Green soon after that happened.


All students killed were just walking to class. They also all had one other thing in common.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Always Remember
   Posted: 5/4/2023 2:53:50 PM 
SBH wrote:
It was an egregious decision to allow the guard on campus with loaded weapons, period. But our governor wanted to pander to the 1970 MAGA crowd so he could be elected to the U.S. Senate.






You ever seen the footage of the interviews with Gov. Rhodes and others in the immediate aftermath? Absolutely sickening!!!!
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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: Always Remember
   Posted: 5/4/2023 9:48:29 PM 
Not sure if he's MAGA, but a GOP candidate for the next governor of NC, Mark Robinson, believes the victims at Kent St. got what they deserved.

“The shooting that happened at Kent State now, I don’t know how much you know about that shooting at Kent State, but people have got to understand it,” Robinson said on one podcast in 2018. “We have the constitutional right to peacefully assemble. Now peacefully assemble does not mean you could throw bricks at National Guardsmen, bust out windows and block traffic. Once you cross that line into violence and the disruption of public transportation and public services and start blocking the entrances of a federal building, you are no longer a protestor.”

His rise to prominence in the GOP also centers around viciously mocking and attacking teenage survivors of the 2018 shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, for their advocacy for gun control measures.
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MonroeClassmate
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  Message Not Read  RE: Always Remember
   Posted: 5/9/2023 10:15:24 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
Cellis033 wrote:


All students killed were just walking to class.


May 4th is part of our state of OHIO history. Please keep it accurate as possible.

Taken from Kent State M4Y Website: THE MAY 4 SHOOTINGS AT KENT STATE UNIVERSITY: THE SEARCH FOR HISTORICAL ACCURACY.

"In May 1970, at Kent State University in Ohio, National Guardsmen confronted student antiwar protestors with a tear gas barrage. Soon afterward, with no provocation, soldiers opened fire into a group of fleeing students. Four young people were killed, shot in the back, including two women who had been walking to class." (Norton et al., 1994, p. 732) Unfortunately, this short description contains four factual errors: (1) some degree of provocation did exist; (2) the students were not fleeing when the Guard initially opened fire; (3) only one of the four students who died, William Schroeder, was shot in the back; and (4) one female student, Sandy Scheuer, had been walking to class, but the other female, Allison Krause, had been part of the demonstration."

OR

Wikipedia: Jeffrey Miller. "Miller had taken part in the protests that day and had thrown a tear gas canister back at the Ohio National Guardsmen who had originally fired it." "Miller was unarmed when he was shot; he had been facing the Guardsmen while standing in an access road leading into the Prentice Hall parking lot at a distance of approximately 265 feet."



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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Always Remember
   Posted: 5/10/2023 11:22:58 AM 
13 were shot, I believe. Two of those killed, Sandy Scheuer and Bill Schroeder, were walking to class. Schroeder, ironically, was active in the school's ROTC program.

A number of the other victims, including Dean Kahler, were not actively protesting.

I work with the daughter of one of the Guardsmen. Total coverup.

Last Edited: 5/10/2023 11:23:49 AM by SBH
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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: Always Remember
   Posted: 5/10/2023 12:51:34 PM 
MonroeClassmate wrote:
Unfortunately, this short description contains four factual errors: (1) some degree of provocation did exist; (2) the students were not fleeing when the Guard initially opened fire; (3) only one of the four students who died, William Schroeder, was shot in the back; and (4) one female student, Sandy Scheuer, had been walking to class, but the other female, Allison Krause, had been part of the demonstration."


Any of the above justify the lethal response?
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Always Remember
   Posted: 5/10/2023 1:12:23 PM 
bobcatsquared wrote:
MonroeClassmate wrote:
Unfortunately, this short description contains four factual errors: (1) some degree of provocation did exist; (2) the students were not fleeing when the Guard initially opened fire; (3) only one of the four students who died, William Schroeder, was shot in the back; and (4) one female student, Sandy Scheuer, had been walking to class, but the other female, Allison Krause, had been part of the demonstration."


Any of the above justify the lethal response?


Absolutely NOT!!!!

MonroeClassmate: Krause was shot in the side of the shoulder, and it entered her chest, she was walking across the green area. She was also shot at a distance of at least 330', so she was NOT a threat to anyone.
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MonroeClassmate
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  Message Not Read  RE: Always Remember
   Posted: 5/10/2023 1:54:15 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
bobcatsquared wrote:
MonroeClassmate wrote:
Unfortunately, this short description contains four factual errors: (1) some degree of provocation did exist; (2) the students were not fleeing when the Guard initially opened fire; (3) only one of the four students who died, William Schroeder, was shot in the back; and (4) one female student, Sandy Scheuer, had been walking to class, but the other female, Allison Krause, had been part of the demonstration."


Any of the above justify the lethal response?


Absolutely NOT!!!!

MonroeClassmate: Krause was shot in the side of the shoulder, and it entered her chest, she was walking across the green area. She was also shot at a distance of at least 330', so she was NOT a threat to anyone.


The search for historical accuracy—Kent M4Y strives for it.

“All students killed were walking to class” is not historically accurate.

Why is this in the Football thread? Move it to discussion thread please Moderator.

Last Edited: 5/10/2023 2:02:34 PM by MonroeClassmate
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greencat
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Member Since: 3/12/2005
Post Count: 2,237

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  Message Not Read  RE: Always Remember
   Posted: 5/10/2023 3:09:34 PM 
SBH wrote:
13 were shot, I believe. Two of those killed, Sandy Scheuer and Bill Schroeder, were walking to class. Schroeder, ironically, was active in the school's ROTC program.

A number of the other victims, including Dean Kahler, were not actively protesting.

I work with the daughter of one of the Guardsmen. Total coverup.



Three of the four students fatally shot on May 4, 1970, by the Ohio National Guard at Kent State University in Kent, Ohio were Jewish: Allison Krause, Sandra Lee Scheuer, and Jeffrey Miller. Nixon (notorious anti-semite) must have been delighted that Rhodes slaughtered some innocent Jewish kids for him.
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OhioCatFan
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Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 14,163

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  Message Not Read  RE: Always Remember
   Posted: 5/10/2023 7:47:13 PM 
greencat wrote:
SBH wrote:
13 were shot, I believe. Two of those killed, Sandy Scheuer and Bill Schroeder, were walking to class. Schroeder, ironically, was active in the school's ROTC program.

A number of the other victims, including Dean Kahler, were not actively protesting.

I work with the daughter of one of the Guardsmen. Total coverup.



Three of the four students fatally shot on May 4, 1970, by the Ohio National Guard at Kent State University in Kent, Ohio were Jewish: Allison Krause, Sandra Lee Scheuer, and Jeffrey Miller. Nixon (notorious anti-semite) must have been delighted that Rhodes slaughtered some innocent Jewish kids for him.


A little, very interesting, IMHO, perspective on Nixon and his anti-Semitism:
https://www.jta.org/2018/05/07/politics/richard-nixon-ant...

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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greencat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Always Remember
   Posted: 5/10/2023 8:48:20 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
greencat wrote:
SBH wrote:
13 were shot, I believe. Two of those killed, Sandy Scheuer and Bill Schroeder, were walking to class. Schroeder, ironically, was active in the school's ROTC program.

A number of the other victims, including Dean Kahler, were not actively protesting.

I work with the daughter of one of the Guardsmen. Total coverup.



Three of the four students fatally shot on May 4, 1970, by the Ohio National Guard at Kent State University in Kent, Ohio were Jewish: Allison Krause, Sandra Lee Scheuer, and Jeffrey Miller. Nixon (notorious anti-semite) must have been delighted that Rhodes slaughtered some innocent Jewish kids for him.


A little, very interesting, IMHO, perspective on Nixon and his anti-Semitism:
https://www.jta.org/2018/05/07/politics/richard-nixon-ant...


He may have liked (or at least tolerated) Israel...our ally and only democracy in the middle east...

But he certainly hated American Jews. It's beyond well documented...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/daily/oct9...

Last Edited: 5/10/2023 8:48:43 PM by greencat
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ohiocatfan1
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  Message Not Read  RE: Always Remember
   Posted: 5/11/2023 10:13:46 AM 
MonroeClassmate wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
bobcatsquared wrote:
MonroeClassmate wrote:
Unfortunately, this short description contains four factual errors: (1) some degree of provocation did exist; (2) the students were not fleeing when the Guard initially opened fire; (3) only one of the four students who died, William Schroeder, was shot in the back; and (4) one female student, Sandy Scheuer, had been walking to class, but the other female, Allison Krause, had been part of the demonstration."


Any of the above justify the lethal response?


Absolutely NOT!!!!

MonroeClassmate: Krause was shot in the side of the shoulder, and it entered her chest, she was walking across the green area. She was also shot at a distance of at least 330', so she was NOT a threat to anyone.


The search for historical accuracy—Kent M4Y strives for it.

“All students killed were walking to class” is not historically accurate.

Why is this in the Football thread? Move it to discussion thread please Moderator.


This subject has no business in a thread for discussing athletics.
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OhioCatFan
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Always Remember
   Posted: 5/11/2023 10:30:36 AM 
greencat wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
greencat wrote:
SBH wrote:
13 were shot, I believe. Two of those killed, Sandy Scheuer and Bill Schroeder, were walking to class. Schroeder, ironically, was active in the school's ROTC program.

A number of the other victims, including Dean Kahler, were not actively protesting.

I work with the daughter of one of the Guardsmen. Total coverup.



Three of the four students fatally shot on May 4, 1970, by the Ohio National Guard at Kent State University in Kent, Ohio were Jewish: Allison Krause, Sandra Lee Scheuer, and Jeffrey Miller. Nixon (notorious anti-semite) must have been delighted that Rhodes slaughtered some innocent Jewish kids for him.


A little, very interesting, IMHO, perspective on Nixon and his anti-Semitism:
https://www.jta.org/2018/05/07/politics/richard-nixon-ant...


He may have liked (or at least tolerated) Israel...our ally and only democracy in the middle east...

But he certainly hated American Jews. It's beyond well documented...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/daily/oct9...



The article I posted didn't deny any of that, in fact, in less detail it said the same thing. My only point is that Nixon, like most people, was kind of complex and it helps to understand that complexity to understand the whole person. He hated commies too, but he opened up China to U.S. trade.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Always Remember
   Posted: 5/11/2023 11:41:31 AM 
ohiocatfan1 wrote:
MonroeClassmate wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
bobcatsquared wrote:
MonroeClassmate wrote:
Unfortunately, this short description contains four factual errors: (1) some degree of provocation did exist; (2) the students were not fleeing when the Guard initially opened fire; (3) only one of the four students who died, William Schroeder, was shot in the back; and (4) one female student, Sandy Scheuer, had been walking to class, but the other female, Allison Krause, had been part of the demonstration."


Any of the above justify the lethal response?


Absolutely NOT!!!!

MonroeClassmate: Krause was shot in the side of the shoulder, and it entered her chest, she was walking across the green area. She was also shot at a distance of at least 330', so she was NOT a threat to anyone.


The search for historical accuracy—Kent M4Y strives for it.

“All students killed were walking to class” is not historically accurate.

Why is this in the Football thread? Move it to discussion thread please Moderator.


This subject has no business in a thread for discussing athletics.



Actually this "thread" which is what this is, is NOT about athletics, but rather about May 4th, 1970.
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greencat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Always Remember
   Posted: 5/12/2023 2:17:18 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
greencat wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
greencat wrote:
SBH wrote:
13 were shot, I believe. Two of those killed, Sandy Scheuer and Bill Schroeder, were walking to class. Schroeder, ironically, was active in the school's ROTC program.

A number of the other victims, including Dean Kahler, were not actively protesting.

I work with the daughter of one of the Guardsmen. Total coverup.



Three of the four students fatally shot on May 4, 1970, by the Ohio National Guard at Kent State University in Kent, Ohio were Jewish: Allison Krause, Sandra Lee Scheuer, and Jeffrey Miller. Nixon (notorious anti-semite) must have been delighted that Rhodes slaughtered some innocent Jewish kids for him.


A little, very interesting, IMHO, perspective on Nixon and his anti-Semitism:
https://www.jta.org/2018/05/07/politics/richard-nixon-ant...


He may have liked (or at least tolerated) Israel...our ally and only democracy in the middle east...

But he certainly hated American Jews. It's beyond well documented...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/daily/oct9...



The article I posted didn't deny any of that, in fact, in less detail it said the same thing. My only point is that Nixon, like most people, was kind of complex and it helps to understand that complexity to understand the whole person. He hated commies too, but he opened up China to U.S. trade.


You know who else was complex? Mussolini. Mussolini’s government passed anti-Semitic laws in Italy that discriminated against Jews in all sectors of public and private life and prepared the way for the deportation of some 20 percent of Italy’s Jews to German death camps during the war. But-but-but...he was complex.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Always Remember
   Posted: 5/12/2023 3:24:37 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
greencat wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
greencat wrote:
SBH wrote:
13 were shot, I believe. Two of those killed, Sandy Scheuer and Bill Schroeder, were walking to class. Schroeder, ironically, was active in the school's ROTC program.

A number of the other victims, including Dean Kahler, were not actively protesting.

I work with the daughter of one of the Guardsmen. Total coverup.



Three of the four students fatally shot on May 4, 1970, by the Ohio National Guard at Kent State University in Kent, Ohio were Jewish: Allison Krause, Sandra Lee Scheuer, and Jeffrey Miller. Nixon (notorious anti-semite) must have been delighted that Rhodes slaughtered some innocent Jewish kids for him.


A little, very interesting, IMHO, perspective on Nixon and his anti-Semitism:
https://www.jta.org/2018/05/07/politics/richard-nixon-ant...


He may have liked (or at least tolerated) Israel...our ally and only democracy in the middle east...

But he certainly hated American Jews. It's beyond well documented...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/daily/oct9...



The article I posted didn't deny any of that, in fact, in less detail it said the same thing. My only point is that Nixon, like most people, was kind of complex and it helps to understand that complexity to understand the whole person. He hated commies too, but he opened up China to U.S. trade.


Complex? Nixon was paranoid and self-destructive due to his insecurity. I do not call that complex.
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greencat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Always Remember (NT)
   Posted: 5/12/2023 11:36:16 PM 

Last Edited: 5/13/2023 4:00:26 AM by greencat
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OhioCatFan
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Location: Athens, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Always Remember
   Posted: 5/13/2023 3:04:39 PM 
greencat wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
greencat wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
greencat wrote:
SBH wrote:
13 were shot, I believe. Two of those killed, Sandy Scheuer and Bill Schroeder, were walking to class. Schroeder, ironically, was active in the school's ROTC program.

A number of the other victims, including Dean Kahler, were not actively protesting.

I work with the daughter of one of the Guardsmen. Total coverup.



Three of the four students fatally shot on May 4, 1970, by the Ohio National Guard at Kent State University in Kent, Ohio were Jewish: Allison Krause, Sandra Lee Scheuer, and Jeffrey Miller. Nixon (notorious anti-semite) must have been delighted that Rhodes slaughtered some innocent Jewish kids for him.


A little, very interesting, IMHO, perspective on Nixon and his anti-Semitism:
https://www.jta.org/2018/05/07/politics/richard-nixon-ant...


He may have liked (or at least tolerated) Israel...our ally and only democracy in the middle east...

But he certainly hated American Jews. It's beyond well documented...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/daily/oct9...



The article I posted didn't deny any of that, in fact, in less detail it said the same thing. My only point is that Nixon, like most people, was kind of complex and it helps to understand that complexity to understand the whole person. He hated commies too, but he opened up China to U.S. trade.


You know who else was complex? Mussolini. Mussolini’s government passed anti-Semitic laws in Italy that discriminated against Jews in all sectors of public and private life and prepared the way for the deportation of some 20 percent of Italy’s Jews to German death camps during the war. But-but-but...he was complex.


So, you are drawing a comparison between Mussolini and Nixon? Seems a little bit of stretch. Nixon was paranoid and handled the Vietnam War very badly, but so did LBJ, who was another complex person who did some good things while in office.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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greencat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Always Remember
   Posted: 5/13/2023 9:55:23 PM 
On 6 August 1965 President Lyndon B. Johnson signed the Voting Rights Act into law. The Civil Rights Act, signed into law by President Lyndon Johnson on July 2, 1964, prohibited discrimination in public places, provided for the integration of schools and other public facilities, and made employment discrimination illegal. It was the most sweeping civil rights legislation since Reconstruction.

On the contrary, Nixon and pro-apartheid Reagan were yucking it up over their racism.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/07/ronald-... /
https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/how-a-historian-un...
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OhioCatFan
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Location: Athens, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Always Remember
   Posted: 5/14/2023 12:21:37 AM 
greencat wrote:
On 6 August 1965 President Lyndon B. Johnson signed the Voting Rights Act into law. The Civil Rights Act, signed into law by President Lyndon Johnson on July 2, 1964, prohibited discrimination in public places, provided for the integration of schools and other public facilities, and made employment discrimination illegal. It was the most sweeping civil rights legislation since Reconstruction.

On the contrary, Nixon and pro-apartheid Reagan were yucking it up over their racism.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/07/ronald-... /
https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/how-a-historian-un...


I said that LBJ did some good things. You outlined some of them. He also did some horrendous things, particularly his egomaniac handling of the Vietnam War. I knew several people who died in that needless war -- both those I served with and friends back home. Though I was in the service at that time I was never sent to Vietnam, but some people I trained with were. Some never returned. A ship that I was stationed on, the USS Newport News (CA-148), was sent to Vietnam after I was ordered off of it. So, in my mind LBJ, just like Nixon, was a mixed bag of good and bad. That's what I meant by saying they were complex people. I was not comparing either one to any European dictator.

And, as you probably know, LBJ had a very racist past, before he became president. So, it's also important to view people in the context of their entire life, and not take one period or a few isolated quotes and try to imply that they give a total picture of the person. Having said that, Nixon deserved to be removed from office if he hadn't resigned, but that doesn't mean that he didn't do some laudable things as president or that he was somehow evil to his core. And, as you pointed out, LBJ achieved some important milestones in the area of civil rights despite his racist past, but these important accomplishments are tarred by his escalation of the Vietnam War in a way that made it into a major conflict that was further mucked up when Nixon took over with his ridiculous "secret plan" to end the war. But, the basic onus for the Vietnam War was on LBJ. Many of us who were alive at the time feel that even though JFK sent advisors to Vietnam he would have had the sense not to send U.S. troops to Southeast Asia. I guess we'll never know the answer to that one for sure due to Lee Harvey Oswald, and whoever was behind that maniac. [Insert your favorite conspiracy theory here.]

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming . . .

Last Edited: 5/14/2023 12:41:31 AM by OhioCatFan

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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greencat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Always Remember
   Posted: 5/14/2023 1:46:37 PM 
LBJ didn't run for reelection. Nixon did. And to pander to conservative pro-war hawks, he didn't settle for a peace agreement until 1973 that was within grasp in 1968 when he was first elected by a scant margin of the popular vote.

Through back channels, he advised the South Vietnamese government to withdraw from peace talks, to refuse to deal with Johnson because if he was elected, they would get a "much better deal."

Of the 58,000+ U.S. fatalities between 1965 and 1973 (even though American casualties continued until 1975 due to Nixon's/Ford's crooked dishonest foot dragging)...a huge number of them were between '68 and '73 when Nixon had to finally step down in utter disgrace.

Last Edited: 5/14/2023 1:47:47 PM by greencat
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