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General Ohio University Discussion/Alumni Events
Topic:  Housing-gate continues

Topic:  Housing-gate continues
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Alan Swank
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Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,072

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  Message Not Read  Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 8/31/2015 6:20:32 PM 
This just in:

http://www.athensnews.com/news/campus/state-inspector-gen...

Last Edited: 8/31/2015 6:21:41 PM by Alan Swank
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Recovering Journalist
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Member Since: 8/17/2010
Location: Cleveland, OH
Post Count: 1,839

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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 12/7/2015 7:56:17 AM 
And another.

http://www.athensnews.com/news/campus/inspector-general-w...
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Alan Swank
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Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,072

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 12/7/2015 2:30:14 PM 
Recovering Journalist wrote:
And another.

http://www.athensnews.com/news/campus/inspector-general-w...


I see where one of our regular posters and former trustees is mentioned in this report. Just provide the info, tell the truth and let's move on folks. This has gone on for over a year now.
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TWT
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Alexandria, VA
Post Count: 5,001

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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 12/8/2015 3:27:05 AM 
It's the handling of housing gate by the administration that's been the problem. They had negotiated a price with a local business man for a property they valued. A price above appraised value but it was negotiated between the university and the owner. The owner at one time had a conversation with the athletic department that when he sells his house he'll catch up on back pledges and $200,000 additional contribution. Media finds out and the administration buckles to pressure and backs off on the purchase yet leaves the president renting the house. OIG is notified and wants to review the correspondence and the administration hands over redacted information. If the owner was to donate to the school and receive commercial benefit then its self dealing. A donation + home sale are two separate non-commercial exchanges. The administration should have executed the deal and take questions later.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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Bobcatbob
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Member Since: 12/21/2004
Location: Coolville, OH
Post Count: 1,344

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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 12/9/2015 11:18:00 AM 
Uncle Wes wrote:
...If the owner was to donate to the school and receive commercial benefit then its self dealing. A donation + home sale are two separate non-commercial exchanges. The administration should have executed the deal and take questions later.


I'm not sure how a home sale constitutes a non-commercial exchange but, regardless, are you saying that the the Foundation should have gone ahead with the purchase even after the minimal known facts were discovered?

My own belief is that the "handling" should have started with the McDavis', Golding, the Foundation and even Jim Schaus running away from Wharton as fast as they could. Keeping this thing alive by honoring the lease is only the most recent mis-step and one I find baffling. Who are they trying to impress by playing this thing as wholly above board and who is ever going to believe them even if it's true?
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Alan Swank
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Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,072

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 12/9/2015 4:39:30 PM 
Uncle Wes wrote:
It's the handling of housing gate by the administration that's been the problem. They had negotiated a price with a local business man for a property they valued. A price above appraised value but it was negotiated between the university and the owner. The owner at one time had a conversation with the athletic department that when he sells his house he'll catch up on back pledges and $200,000 additional contribution. Media finds out and the administration buckles to pressure and backs off on the purchase yet leaves the president renting the house. OIG is notified and wants to review the correspondence and the administration hands over redacted information. If the owner was to donate to the school and receive commercial benefit then its self dealing. A donation + home sale are two separate non-commercial exchanges. The administration should have executed the deal and take questions later.


There is a big difference between a contribution where something is expected in return and a donation where one gives something of value without expectation or consideration or benefit. The fact you only get an 80% deduction on obc contributions bears that out unless you choose to forgo all benefits associated with you money that you are giving. Return benefits were expected in this case for every dollar given.
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bobcat695
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Parkersburg, WV
Post Count: 1,345

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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 12/10/2015 8:54:55 AM 
There is zero chance I would ever pursue a high-level job in academia. This public argument shows how ignorant people can be about basic financial matters.

There was a housing issue that needed addressed, and a long-time supporter of the university had a property available for immediate occupancy that met all of their needs. (Virtually every successful person in Athens can be classified as a long-time supporter of Ohio University.) Using property tax assessment records to determine fair market value is absurd since those values are highly discounted and used for tax purposes only. Plus, the home was furnished. There are virtually no comps in Athens at that price point either. If people want to complain about a complete waste of OU's money spent on real estate, they should start with Punchcard Park.

If the OU Foundation (which is run by a bunch of visionary, successful people) thought it was a fair deal, then they should be trusted to make that decision. Is the next step for the public to start insisting on having a say in the investment management decisions of the Foundation's portfolio? I'll start by suggesting 50% in JCPenny stock/30% in a Greece REIT/20% in gold. Those are all cheap right now, which is how most of the vocal, editorial complainers think things should be solved.

"You can't un-fist a fist pump." - Saul Phillips 1/24/15

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BillyTheCat
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Member Since: 10/6/2012
Post Count: 9,797

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 12/12/2015 8:55:18 AM 
Can't we all just get along.

Last Edited: 12/12/2015 9:05:20 AM by BillyTheCat
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Alan Swank
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Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,072

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 1/25/2016 2:17:44 PM 
bobcat695 wrote:
There is zero chance I would ever pursue a high-level job in academia. This public argument shows how ignorant people can be about basic financial matters.

There was a housing issue that needed addressed, and a long-time supporter of the university had a property available for immediate occupancy that met all of their needs. (Virtually every successful person in Athens can be classified as a long-time supporter of Ohio University.) Using property tax assessment records to determine fair market value is absurd since those values are highly discounted and used for tax purposes only. Plus, the home was furnished. There are virtually no comps in Athens at that price point either. If people want to complain about a complete waste of OU's money spent on real estate, they should start with Punchcard Park.

If the OU Foundation (which is run by a bunch of visionary, successful people) thought it was a fair deal, then they should be trusted to make that decision. Is the next step for the public to start insisting on having a say in the investment management decisions of the Foundation's portfolio? I'll start by suggesting 50% in JCPenny stock/30% in a Greece REIT/20% in gold. Those are all cheap right now, which is how most of the vocal, editorial complainers think things should be solved.


Not sure this was a fair deal. Any lease agreement I've ever read includes taxes and maintenance in it. Apparently not this one.

http://www.thepostathens.com/news/ohio-university-provide...

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rpbobcat
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Member Since: 4/28/2006
Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
Post Count: 3,547

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 1/26/2016 7:06:00 AM 
Alan Swank wrote:
bobcat695 wrote:
There is zero chance I would ever pursue a high-level job in academia. This public argument shows how ignorant people can be about basic financial matters.

There was a housing issue that needed addressed, and a long-time supporter of the university had a property available for immediate occupancy that met all of their needs. (Virtually every successful person in Athens can be classified as a long-time supporter of Ohio University.) Using property tax assessment records to determine fair market value is absurd since those values are highly discounted and used for tax purposes only. Plus, the home was furnished. There are virtually no comps in Athens at that price point either. If people want to complain about a complete waste of OU's money spent on real estate, they should start with Punchcard Park.

If the OU Foundation (which is run by a bunch of visionary, successful people) thought it was a fair deal, then they should be trusted to make that decision. Is the next step for the public to start insisting on having a say in the investment management decisions of the Foundation's portfolio? I'll start by suggesting 50% in JCPenny stock/30% in a Greece REIT/20% in gold. Those are all cheap right now, which is how most of the vocal, editorial complainers think things should be solved.


Not sure this was a fair deal. Any lease agreement I've ever read includes taxes and maintenance in it. Apparently not this one.

http://www.thepostathens.com/news/ohio-university-provide...



Depends on the lease.
I lease the building where I have my office.
I have to pay for all maintaince and minor repairs plus property taxes.

I'm sure if you don't,it just increases the monthly rent.
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MedinaCat
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Lakewood, OH
Post Count: 741

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 1/26/2016 8:38:44 AM 
At the very least I would expect the front doors to be painted some shade of bobcat green.
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Alan Swank
General User

Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,072

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 1/31/2016 1:37:53 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
bobcat695 wrote:
There is zero chance I would ever pursue a high-level job in academia. This public argument shows how ignorant people can be about basic financial matters.

There was a housing issue that needed addressed, and a long-time supporter of the university had a property available for immediate occupancy that met all of their needs. (Virtually every successful person in Athens can be classified as a long-time supporter of Ohio University.) Using property tax assessment records to determine fair market value is absurd since those values are highly discounted and used for tax purposes only. Plus, the home was furnished. There are virtually no comps in Athens at that price point either. If people want to complain about a complete waste of OU's money spent on real estate, they should start with Punchcard Park.

If the OU Foundation (which is run by a bunch of visionary, successful people) thought it was a fair deal, then they should be trusted to make that decision. Is the next step for the public to start insisting on having a say in the investment management decisions of the Foundation's portfolio? I'll start by suggesting 50% in JCPenny stock/30% in a Greece REIT/20% in gold. Those are all cheap right now, which is how most of the vocal, editorial complainers think things should be solved.


Not sure this was a fair deal. Any lease agreement I've ever read includes taxes and maintenance in it. Apparently not this one.

http://www.thepostathens.com/news/ohio-university-provide...



Depends on the lease.
I lease the building where I have my office.
I have to pay for all maintaince and minor repairs plus property taxes.

I'm sure if you don't,it just increases the monthly rent.







Agreed and this is very common for commercial space. Residential space in Athens is quite a different story particularly in what is a fairly new home.
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Recovering Journalist
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Member Since: 8/17/2010
Location: Cleveland, OH
Post Count: 1,839

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 2/29/2016 8:18:19 AM 
http://www.athensnews.com/news/campus/confirmed-ou-under-...
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rpbobcat
General User

Member Since: 4/28/2006
Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
Post Count: 3,547

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 2/29/2016 10:19:24 AM 
Maybe its me,but when any Government agency requires documents to be submitted to them,that's an "investigation".

Reading the State's January 2016 letter,it seems they are merely expanding their records request to include emails.

Taken on its face,the request doesn't say much,other then asking for additional documents.

You can read into it whatever you want.
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Bobcatbob
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Member Since: 12/21/2004
Location: Coolville, OH
Post Count: 1,344

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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 3/1/2016 1:35:53 PM 
When this kind of thing happens to political candidates, they send the money back to bolster the perception that they want no part of the controversy. As painful as that might be, this could be a case where that should be happening.

Each year, I get a nice brochure from the AD telling me what is expected of me as a donor/booster/fan/Bobcat so I don't cause an NCAA scandal. I don't know that the NCAA rules explicitly cover "publicly embarrassing the University, the Board, the President, the Athletic Director and his staff" but they probably should.

I also understand (don't I?) that the latest, promised $200K was never paid but I can't decide if that is more damning or less.

Besides all that, I have to think that the only good thing about this so far is that the Dispatch or some Columbus TV station hasn't assigned an "investigative" reporter to get to the bottom of this.
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Alan Swank
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Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,072

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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 3/1/2016 3:41:07 PM 
Bobcatbob wrote:
When this kind of thing happens to political candidates, they send the money back to bolster the perception that they want no part of the controversy. As painful as that might be, this could be a case where that should be happening.

Each year, I get a nice brochure from the AD telling me what is expected of me as a donor/booster/fan/Bobcat so I don't cause an NCAA scandal. I don't know that the NCAA rules explicitly cover "publicly embarrassing the University, the Board, the President, the Athletic Director and his staff" but they probably should.

I also understand (don't I?) that the latest, promised $200K was never paid but I can't decide if that is more damning or less.

Besides all that, I have to think that the only good thing about this so far is that the Dispatch or some Columbus TV station hasn't assigned an "investigative" reporter to get to the bottom of this.


NCAA rules only pertain to violations that involve athletes. This had nothing to do with athletes so it is nothing the NCAA will even be looking at. As state employees we are looking at possible ethics violations and the corresponding penalties.
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The Optimist
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Member Since: 3/16/2007
Location: CLE
Post Count: 5,561

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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 3/1/2016 6:51:02 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcatbob wrote:
When this kind of thing happens to political candidates, they send the money back to bolster the perception that they want no part of the controversy. As painful as that might be, this could be a case where that should be happening.

Each year, I get a nice brochure from the AD telling me what is expected of me as a donor/booster/fan/Bobcat so I don't cause an NCAA scandal. I don't know that the NCAA rules explicitly cover "publicly embarrassing the University, the Board, the President, the Athletic Director and his staff" but they probably should.

I also understand (don't I?) that the latest, promised $200K was never paid but I can't decide if that is more damning or less.

Besides all that, I have to think that the only good thing about this so far is that the Dispatch or some Columbus TV station hasn't assigned an "investigative" reporter to get to the bottom of this.


NCAA rules only pertain to violations that involve athletes. This had nothing to do with athletes so it is nothing the NCAA will even be looking at. As state employees we are looking at possible ethics violations and the corresponding penalties.


I recall at least one article from the A-News somehow tying in Wharton's donation to the Academic Center.

I've seen crazier things happen.

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Bobcatbob
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Location: Coolville, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 3/2/2016 9:50:16 AM 
Alan Swank wrote:

NCAA rules only pertain to violations that involve athletes. This had nothing to do with athletes so it is nothing the NCAA will even be looking at. As state employees we are looking at possible ethics violations and the corresponding penalties.



Yes, and what I mean to say is that we impose all these restrictions on donors when the NCAA is looking over our shoulder but somehow this stink is OK because athletes aren't directly involved? I'm throwing the bu&^%$#! flag on that. Leadership starts at the top.
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D.A.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 3/2/2016 4:48:07 PM 
The Optimist wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcatbob wrote:
When this kind of thing happens to political candidates, they send the money back to bolster the perception that they want no part of the controversy. As painful as that might be, this could be a case where that should be happening.

Each year, I get a nice brochure from the AD telling me what is expected of me as a donor/booster/fan/Bobcat so I don't cause an NCAA scandal. I don't know that the NCAA rules explicitly cover "publicly embarrassing the University, the Board, the President, the Athletic Director and his staff" but they probably should.

I also understand (don't I?) that the latest, promised $200K was never paid but I can't decide if that is more damning or less.

Besides all that, I have to think that the only good thing about this so far is that the Dispatch or some Columbus TV station hasn't assigned an "investigative" reporter to get to the bottom of this.


NCAA rules only pertain to violations that involve athletes. This had nothing to do with athletes so it is nothing the NCAA will even be looking at. As state employees we are looking at possible ethics violations and the corresponding penalties.


I recall at least one article from the A-News somehow tying in Wharton's donation to the Academic Center.


From the articles, assuming you can believe the reporting, the commitment was (paraphrasing): When I (Wharton) sell this house I own, I will have the free cash flow to pay my outstanding pledge to the Walter of $100k in full, and will also have the free cash flow to make an additional donation in full for $100k to the Sook.

Last Edited: 3/2/2016 4:49:20 PM by D.A.

The Few, The Proud, The Bobcats!

And for the record, I hate tOSU, and Ricordati and Torgerson are DB's.

"This isn't just another walkover from the MAC." Kirk Herbstreit, another DB, on College Football Gameday
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Alan Swank
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Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,072

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 3/3/2016 6:27:43 PM 
D.A. wrote:
The Optimist wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcatbob wrote:
When this kind of thing happens to political candidates, they send the money back to bolster the perception that they want no part of the controversy. As painful as that might be, this could be a case where that should be happening.

Each year, I get a nice brochure from the AD telling me what is expected of me as a donor/booster/fan/Bobcat so I don't cause an NCAA scandal. I don't know that the NCAA rules explicitly cover "publicly embarrassing the University, the Board, the President, the Athletic Director and his staff" but they probably should.

I also understand (don't I?) that the latest, promised $200K was never paid but I can't decide if that is more damning or less.

Besides all that, I have to think that the only good thing about this so far is that the Dispatch or some Columbus TV station hasn't assigned an "investigative" reporter to get to the bottom of this.


NCAA rules only pertain to violations that involve athletes. This had nothing to do with athletes so it is nothing the NCAA will even be looking at. As state employees we are looking at possible ethics violations and the corresponding penalties.


I recall at least one article from the A-News somehow tying in Wharton's donation to the Academic Center.


From the articles, assuming you can believe the reporting, the commitment was (paraphrasing): When I (Wharton) sell this house I own, I will have the free cash flow to pay my outstanding pledge to the Walter of $100k in full, and will also have the free cash flow to make an additional donation in full for $100k to the Sook.


Wow! And I bet you think one of the three stooges "debating" on tv tonight is fit to be president. This was a pay to play deal if I ever saw one.
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D.A.
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Location: Georgetown, ME
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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 3/3/2016 9:44:02 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
D.A. wrote:
The Optimist wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcatbob wrote:
When this kind of thing happens to political candidates, they send the money back to bolster the perception that they want no part of the controversy. As painful as that might be, this could be a case where that should be happening.

Each year, I get a nice brochure from the AD telling me what is expected of me as a donor/booster/fan/Bobcat so I don't cause an NCAA scandal. I don't know that the NCAA rules explicitly cover "publicly embarrassing the University, the Board, the President, the Athletic Director and his staff" but they probably should.

I also understand (don't I?) that the latest, promised $200K was never paid but I can't decide if that is more damning or less.

Besides all that, I have to think that the only good thing about this so far is that the Dispatch or some Columbus TV station hasn't assigned an "investigative" reporter to get to the bottom of this.


NCAA rules only pertain to violations that involve athletes. This had nothing to do with athletes so it is nothing the NCAA will even be looking at. As state employees we are looking at possible ethics violations and the corresponding penalties.


I recall at least one article from the A-News somehow tying in Wharton's donation to the Academic Center.


From the articles, assuming you can believe the reporting, the commitment was (paraphrasing): When I (Wharton) sell this house I own, I will have the free cash flow to pay my outstanding pledge to the Walter of $100k in full, and will also have the free cash flow to make an additional donation in full for $100k to the Sook.


Wow! And I bet you think one of the three stooges "debating" on tv tonight is fit to be president. This was a pay to play deal if I ever saw one.



What about "assuming you can believe the reporting" wasn't clear to you?

The Few, The Proud, The Bobcats!

And for the record, I hate tOSU, and Ricordati and Torgerson are DB's.

"This isn't just another walkover from the MAC." Kirk Herbstreit, another DB, on College Football Gameday
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rpbobcat
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Member Since: 4/28/2006
Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
Post Count: 3,547

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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 3/4/2016 7:00:24 AM 
Quote:


Wow! And I bet you think one of the three stooges "debating" on tv tonight is fit to be president. This was a pay to play deal if I ever saw one.



No question,3 of the debaters came off very badly last night.

But do you honestly think that Laurel,everything will be free,and Hardy,orange jump suits will make me look thinner,are any better ?



Last Edited: 3/4/2016 9:08:31 AM by Ryan Carey
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The Optimist
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Member Since: 3/16/2007
Location: CLE
Post Count: 5,561

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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 3/4/2016 9:07:44 AM 
D.A. wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
D.A. wrote:
The Optimist wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
Bobcatbob wrote:
When this kind of thing happens to political candidates, they send the money back to bolster the perception that they want no part of the controversy. As painful as that might be, this could be a case where that should be happening.

Each year, I get a nice brochure from the AD telling me what is expected of me as a donor/booster/fan/Bobcat so I don't cause an NCAA scandal. I don't know that the NCAA rules explicitly cover "publicly embarrassing the University, the Board, the President, the Athletic Director and his staff" but they probably should.

I also understand (don't I?) that the latest, promised $200K was never paid but I can't decide if that is more damning or less.

Besides all that, I have to think that the only good thing about this so far is that the Dispatch or some Columbus TV station hasn't assigned an "investigative" reporter to get to the bottom of this.


NCAA rules only pertain to violations that involve athletes. This had nothing to do with athletes so it is nothing the NCAA will even be looking at. As state employees we are looking at possible ethics violations and the corresponding penalties.


I recall at least one article from the A-News somehow tying in Wharton's donation to the Academic Center.


From the articles, assuming you can believe the reporting, the commitment was (paraphrasing): When I (Wharton) sell this house I own, I will have the free cash flow to pay my outstanding pledge to the Walter of $100k in full, and will also have the free cash flow to make an additional donation in full for $100k to the Sook.


Wow! And I bet you think one of the three stooges "debating" on tv tonight is fit to be president. This was a pay to play deal if I ever saw one.



What about "assuming you can believe the reporting" wasn't clear to you?


I almost felt about adding a similar statement to my post when I mentioned A-News...

I take everything I read their with a certain grain of salt. They present some interesting stories that other Athens papers miss out on but sometimes it feels very tabloid-like in that they seem to just throw stuff around to drum up views and see what sticks...

I've seen crazier things happen.

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Recovering Journalist
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Member Since: 8/17/2010
Location: Cleveland, OH
Post Count: 1,839

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 3/4/2016 9:34:35 AM 
Attacking the messenger (in this case, the A-News) is such a lazy cop out when one doesn't like the implications of a story. A blanket statement of how "the media sucks" or journalists lie is just another ad hominem attack. Most people on this thread aren't even in Athens, yet they question the validity of these stories just based on the source. I don't know enough to say that they've had flawless reporting, but I've read all the stories and they have done the basics, including repeatedly trying to get the administration's side of the story both through interviews and FOIA requests. I get that many fans don't like the implications of this story, but trying to tear down the source doesn't change the basic realities of the case.

A McMansion on Coventry Lane could not possibly be worth $1.2 million on any open market. The most expensive Zillow estimate on Coventry right now is $338,000. The most expensive house for sale in all of Athens is less than $600,000 now. The stonewalling on information since it all came to light is not exactly a sign that everything was on the up and up either. I'm as big a fan as anyone, but I am with Alan on this one until the administration offers a better explanation.

Last Edited: 3/4/2016 9:35:52 AM by Recovering Journalist
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The Optimist
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Member Since: 3/16/2007
Location: CLE
Post Count: 5,561

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  Message Not Read  RE: Housing-gate continues
   Posted: 3/4/2016 10:49:25 AM 
Recovering Journalist wrote:
Attacking the messenger (in this case, the A-News) is such a lazy cop out when one doesn't like the implications of a story. A blanket statement of how "the media sucks" or journalists lie is just another ad hominem attack. Most people on this thread aren't even in Athens, yet they question the validity of these stories just based on the source. I don't know enough to say that they've had flawless reporting, but I've read all the stories and they have done the basics, including repeatedly trying to get the administration's side of the story both through interviews and FOIA requests. I get that many fans don't like the implications of this story, but trying to tear down the source doesn't change the basic realities of the case.

A McMansion on Coventry Lane could not possibly be worth $1.2 million on any open market. The most expensive Zillow estimate on Coventry right now is $338,000. The most expensive house for sale in all of Athens is less than $600,000 now. The stonewalling on information since it all came to light is not exactly a sign that everything was on the up and up either. I'm as big a fan as anyone, but I am with Alan on this one until the administration offers a better explanation.


A blanket statement defending all journalists is much lazier than what I posted.

As I mentioned, the A-News does post some interesting stories that go missed by the Messenger and the Post. Why? In many cases, I think they cover a different type of story than those two outlets do... More of a tabloid type vibe trying to stir up controversy. In SOME cases, the controversy turns out to be warranted. I didn't draw this conclusion about the A-News based on this one story... In fact I think this one story is one of the better cases of investigative journalism they have done.
I believe it is OCF who pointed out that the A-News tends to re-hash the same articles year after year... As far as quality reporting goes, I'd put them below the Messenger in the Athens market. There is nothing wrong with that... The Messenger is a subscription based paper... The A-News is a free paper that generates revenue a different way... NOTHING wrong with that. Tabloids serve as a valuable entertainment outlet in this country.

I've seen crazier things happen.

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