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Topic:  No More Cleveland Indians

Topic:  No More Cleveland Indians
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rpbobcat
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Member Since: 4/28/2006
Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
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  Message Not Read  No More Cleveland Indians
   Posted: 12/14/2020 6:53:15 AM 
According to the news out here,they will announce today
that they are dropping the team name.

No indication whether they have selected a new name yet,or
if they'll just be the "Cleveland Baseball Team" for now.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: No More Cleveland Indians
   Posted: 12/14/2020 8:34:44 AM 
It sounds to me like this will be a phased plan; step one is to scrub away reference to the Indians, and then step two is to decide on a new name. It sounds like Spiders is gaining steam, as that was their name from 1877 - 1899.
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Alan Swank
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Location: Athens, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: No More Cleveland Indians
   Posted: 12/14/2020 10:58:13 AM 
Cleveland Rocks would be a big hit for many.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM-IEMlJyak
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mf279801
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Member Since: 8/6/2010
Location: Newark, DE
Post Count: 2,461

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  Message Not Read  RE: No More Cleveland Indians
   Posted: 12/14/2020 11:17:40 PM 
A few friends and I have been kicking around ideas. (Note: not all of us are Cleveland fans). Ideas include:

Great Lakers
Cleveland Rocks
Cleveland Rolls
Cleveland Grovers
Cleveland Steamers (because of their history as a Great Lakes port, not for any other reason why are you even asking I don't know what you're talking about stop giggling)
Yankees (Lets see if the NY Yankees have enough friends among MLB owners to block another team from taking the same name)
RedHawks
(And, yes, Spiders)

Last Edited: 12/14/2020 11:20:45 PM by mf279801
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rpbobcat
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Member Since: 4/28/2006
Location: Rochelle Park, NJ
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  Message Not Read  RE: No More Cleveland Indians
   Posted: 12/15/2020 6:57:50 AM 
Chris Bumbaca (USA Today) has an interesting article (its up on Muckrack.com)
about possible names.

Goes into some names that have been used in the past,like the Negro League Cleveland Buckeyes.

Also found it interesting that Paul Dolan said they will keep the Indians name until they come up with a new one.

No "interim" name.
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spongeBOB CATpants
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Member Since: 8/16/2016
Post Count: 989

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  Message Not Read  RE: No More Cleveland Indians
   Posted: 12/22/2020 4:57:05 PM 
The best suggestion I've seen by far is the Cleveland Guardians. I like this name for a couple reasons. Its catch and "-dians" makes is sound similar to Indians. Think that would provide a smoother transition.

Another reason I really like this is how the name Guardians connects to the city and the Hope Memorial Bridge.

The Hope Memorial Bridge (formerly the Lorain–Carnegie Bridge) is a 5,865-foot-long art deco truss bridge crossing the Cuyahoga River in Cleveland, Ohio. The bridge connects Lorain Avenue on Cleveland's west side and Carnegie Avenue on the east side, terminating just short of Progressive Field. Pairs of statues designed by sculptor Henry Hering and architect Frank Walker – officially named the "Guardians of Traffic" stand on pylons at each end of the viaduct, symbolizing progress in transportation.

That was copied and pasted from Wikipedia but I'd love the logo to be based on these Guardian sculptures.

The Cleveland Guardians just makes sense.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: No More Cleveland Indians
   Posted: 12/23/2020 6:54:50 AM 
spongeBOB CATpants wrote:
The best suggestion I've seen by far is the Cleveland Guardians. I like this name for a couple reasons. Its catch and "-dians" makes is sound similar to Indians. Think that would provide a smoother transition.

Another reason I really like this is how the name Guardians connects to the city and the Hope Memorial Bridge.

The Hope Memorial Bridge (formerly the Lorain–Carnegie Bridge) is a 5,865-foot-long art deco truss bridge crossing the Cuyahoga River in Cleveland, Ohio. The bridge connects Lorain Avenue on Cleveland's west side and Carnegie Avenue on the east side, terminating just short of Progressive Field. Pairs of statues designed by sculptor Henry Hering and architect Frank Walker – officially named the "Guardians of Traffic" stand on pylons at each end of the viaduct, symbolizing progress in transportation.

That was copied and pasted from Wikipedia but I'd love the logo to be based on these Guardian sculptures.

The Cleveland Guardians just makes sense.


Or Guardians could be named after the newly created Space Force.
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OUPride
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Member Since: 9/21/2010
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  Message Not Read  RE: No More Cleveland Indians
   Posted: 12/23/2020 7:17:54 AM 
The Cleveland River Flames.

What? Too soon?
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OhioCatFan
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 14,163

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  Message Not Read  RE: No More Cleveland Indians
   Posted: 12/23/2020 11:42:29 PM 
I'd prefer the Cleveland Spiders. It would tie the team into a little of Cleveland baseball history. As I understand it, this is one of the names under serious consideration.

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Deciduous Forest Cat
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Ohio
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  Message Not Read  RE: No More Cleveland Indians
   Posted: 12/24/2020 4:27:43 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
I'd prefer the Cleveland Spiders. It would tie the team into a little of Cleveland baseball history. As I understand it, this is one of the names under serious consideration.


Guardians is a big no, because they'll be unintentionally affiliated with the joke that is space force.

All in for the Cleveland Spiders.
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UpSan Bobcat
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Member Since: 8/30/2005
Location: Upper Sandusky, OH
Post Count: 3,799

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  Message Not Read  RE: No More Cleveland Indians
   Posted: 12/29/2020 4:30:16 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
It sounds to me like this will be a phased plan; step one is to scrub away reference to the Indians, and then step two is to decide on a new name. It sounds like Spiders is gaining steam, as that was their name from 1877 - 1899.


It wasn't actually the Indians' name ever. It was the name of a separate franchise. The current Indians franchise moved to Cleveland from Grand Rapids, Michigan, after the Spiders folded. The American League team in Grand Rapids was known as the the Rustlers and then the Lake Shores, Bluebirds, Broncos and Naps over the course of 15 years before becoming the Indians in 1915.

The seperate Cleveland Spiders were a National League team (after two years in the American Association). The last year of the Spiders they were probably the worst team in the history of major league baseball. They went 20-134. They averaged 145 fans per home game and eventually started playing all games on the road.
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longtiimelurker
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Member Since: 2/2/2017
Post Count: 587

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  Message Not Read  RE: No More Cleveland Indians
   Posted: 1/2/2021 10:33:02 AM 
UpSan Bobcat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
It sounds to me like this will be a phased plan; step one is to scrub away reference to the Indians, and then step two is to decide on a new name. It sounds like Spiders is gaining steam, as that was their name from 1877 - 1899.


It wasn't actually the Indians' name ever. It was the name of a separate franchise. The current Indians franchise moved to Cleveland from Grand Rapids, Michigan, after the Spiders folded. The American League team in Grand Rapids was known as the the Rustlers and then the Lake Shores, Bluebirds, Broncos and Naps over the course of 15 years before becoming the Indians in 1915.

The seperate Cleveland Spiders were a National League team (after two years in the American Association). The last year of the Spiders they were probably the worst team in the history of major league baseball. They went 20-134. They averaged 145 fans per home game and eventually started playing all games on the road.


UpSan , That is excellent history. I love the migration of Pro franchises. Thank you.
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spongeBOB CATpants
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Member Since: 8/16/2016
Post Count: 989

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  Message Not Read  RE: No More Cleveland Indians
   Posted: 1/4/2021 11:28:39 AM 
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
I'd prefer the Cleveland Spiders. It would tie the team into a little of Cleveland baseball history. As I understand it, this is one of the names under serious consideration.


Guardians is a big no, because they'll be unintentionally affiliated with the joke that is space force.

All in for the Cleveland Spiders.



I tend to agree that it would be brought up, still don't think they should let that deter their choice.

What if Space force was never created? Would Guardians still be a no for you?
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ohiocatfan1
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Member Since: 9/6/2016
Post Count: 330

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  Message Not Read  RE: No More Cleveland Indians
   Posted: 2/3/2021 3:52:29 PM 
This world has lost its collective mind. Offended by a team name? Give me a break.

Last Edited: 2/3/2021 3:53:51 PM by ohiocatfan1
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: No More Cleveland Indians
   Posted: 2/3/2021 4:02:30 PM 
ohiocatfan1 wrote:
This world has lost its collective mind. Offended by a team name? Give me a break.


FYI, no one made the ownership do this on their own.

FYI, somewhere there was a white dude in 1961 cheering the Washington Redskins for being the only team not to draft an African American, I think maybe that was you.
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ohiocatfan1
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Member Since: 9/6/2016
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  Message Not Read  RE: No More Cleveland Indians
   Posted: 2/3/2021 4:09:17 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
ohiocatfan1 wrote:
This world has lost its collective mind. Offended by a team name? Give me a break.


FYI, no one made the ownership do this on their own.

FYI, somewhere there was a white dude in 1961 cheering the Washington Redskins for being the only team not to draft an African American, I think maybe that was you.


Really? The race card?
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: No More Cleveland Indians
   Posted: 2/7/2021 2:19:17 PM 
ohiocatfan1 wrote:
This world has lost its collective mind. Offended by a team name? Give me a break.


Another very valid approach to your opinion here is that you're very correct that team names don't matter a ton. And that that applies to both parties here.

So if you think it's absurd that a team name offends somebody, your own outrage about the change is equally absurd. Because it's a team name, which by your own logic just isn't that big of a deal.

From my perspective, the Indians name doesn't offend me personally. But I'm happy to take Native Americans at their word that they're offended, and have no problem with a name change. Because as you point out, it's just a team name.

Since it's not, in your mind, worth offense and doesn't matter a ton, there's a very easy high road that involves changing it because it does clearly offend some people.

It's very weird to me that your stance here is outrage that this meaningless thing could cause outrage. You're outraged, right? It's either meaningless or it's not. You seem to want it to be meaningless to the people it offends, while still insisting it carries enough meaning that changing it makes you angry.

Feels pretty hypocritical, but maybe I'm missing something.
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Pataskala
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Member Since: 7/8/2010
Location: At least six feet away from anybody else
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  Message Not Read  RE: No More Cleveland Indians
   Posted: 2/7/2021 3:58:07 PM 
I have a friend who is part Cherokee and she was extremely offended by the "Redskins" team name. Equated it to the "N" word. "Indians" itself might not be as offensive but it's often the way it's used. The goofy-looking "Chief Wahoo" was a highly offensive caricature to many Native Americans and incited much of the protest through the years. Some are pushing for the Chiefs to change their name, in part because they use the "tomahawk chop" and chant that Florida State uses. Seminoles are ok with FSU's use of it because FSU has dropped its mascot and provides scholarships to Seminole kids. FSU's logos are developed with input from the Seminole Tribe. Something like at CMU, where Chippewa kids get free tuition in exchange for CMU's use of some tribal land.

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JSF
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Location: Houston, TX
Post Count: 6,427

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  Message Not Read  RE: No More Cleveland Indians
   Posted: 2/7/2021 7:43:49 PM 
It would be really easy for the Chiefs to distance themselves from Native American appropriation and keep almost everything intact; "chief" is a term used worldwide.

They could also go with Chefs.

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

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ohiocatfan1
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Member Since: 9/6/2016
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  Message Not Read  RE: No More Cleveland Indians
   Posted: 2/8/2021 10:53:51 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
ohiocatfan1 wrote:
This world has lost its collective mind. Offended by a team name? Give me a break.


Another very valid approach to your opinion here is that you're very correct that team names don't matter a ton. And that that applies to both parties here.

So if you think it's absurd that a team name offends somebody, your own outrage about the change is equally absurd. Because it's a team name, which by your own logic just isn't that big of a deal.

From my perspective, the Indians name doesn't offend me personally. But I'm happy to take Native Americans at their word that they're offended, and have no problem with a name change. Because as you point out, it's just a team name.

Since it's not, in your mind, worth offense and doesn't matter a ton, there's a very easy high road that involves changing it because it does clearly offend some people.

It's very weird to me that your stance here is outrage that this meaningless thing could cause outrage. You're outraged, right? It's either meaningless or it's not. You seem to want it to be meaningless to the people it offends, while still insisting it carries enough meaning that changing it makes you angry.

Feels pretty hypocritical, but maybe I'm missing something.


You're wrong I'm not offended by the name change and never said I was. I just think changing the name is stupid.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: No More Cleveland Indians
   Posted: 2/8/2021 10:56:12 AM 
ohiocatfan1 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
ohiocatfan1 wrote:
This world has lost its collective mind. Offended by a team name? Give me a break.


Another very valid approach to your opinion here is that you're very correct that team names don't matter a ton. And that that applies to both parties here.

So if you think it's absurd that a team name offends somebody, your own outrage about the change is equally absurd. Because it's a team name, which by your own logic just isn't that big of a deal.

From my perspective, the Indians name doesn't offend me personally. But I'm happy to take Native Americans at their word that they're offended, and have no problem with a name change. Because as you point out, it's just a team name.

Since it's not, in your mind, worth offense and doesn't matter a ton, there's a very easy high road that involves changing it because it does clearly offend some people.

It's very weird to me that your stance here is outrage that this meaningless thing could cause outrage. You're outraged, right? It's either meaningless or it's not. You seem to want it to be meaningless to the people it offends, while still insisting it carries enough meaning that changing it makes you angry.

Feels pretty hypocritical, but maybe I'm missing something.


You're wrong I'm not offended by the name change and never said I was. I just think changing the name is stupid.


Sure you do, being of a non-minority group what would you possibly understand about being offended?

Last Edited: 2/8/2021 10:57:31 AM by BillyTheCat
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74 Cat
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Member Since: 2/23/2005
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  Message Not Read  RE: No More Cleveland Indians
   Posted: 2/8/2021 11:50:44 AM 
The Kansas City Chiefs were named after a Mayor of Kansas City, H. Roe Bartle, whose nickname was 'The Chief'. Their imagery could use some scrutiny, however.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: No More Cleveland Indians
   Posted: 2/8/2021 11:56:39 AM 
ohiocatfan1 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
ohiocatfan1 wrote:
This world has lost its collective mind. Offended by a team name? Give me a break.


Another very valid approach to your opinion here is that you're very correct that team names don't matter a ton. And that that applies to both parties here.

So if you think it's absurd that a team name offends somebody, your own outrage about the change is equally absurd. Because it's a team name, which by your own logic just isn't that big of a deal.

From my perspective, the Indians name doesn't offend me personally. But I'm happy to take Native Americans at their word that they're offended, and have no problem with a name change. Because as you point out, it's just a team name.

Since it's not, in your mind, worth offense and doesn't matter a ton, there's a very easy high road that involves changing it because it does clearly offend some people.

It's very weird to me that your stance here is outrage that this meaningless thing could cause outrage. You're outraged, right? It's either meaningless or it's not. You seem to want it to be meaningless to the people it offends, while still insisting it carries enough meaning that changing it makes you angry.

Feels pretty hypocritical, but maybe I'm missing something.


You're wrong I'm not offended by the name change and never said I was. I just think changing the name is stupid.


Ah yes, you're not at all outraged, you just think "the world has lost it's collective mind" because people find the name of a sports team offensive. Whenever I'm feeling non-plussed and neutral about something, I always insist the world has lost it's mind, too.

Just this morning, my wife asked if I wanted coffee or tea. Didn't have a strong preference, but did make sure she knew that anybody who drinks tea in the morning has lost their mind.


Last Edited: 2/8/2021 2:30:31 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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ohiocatfan1
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Member Since: 9/6/2016
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  Message Not Read  RE: No More Cleveland Indians
   Posted: 2/8/2021 1:30:21 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
ohiocatfan1 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
ohiocatfan1 wrote:
This world has lost its collective mind. Offended by a team name? Give me a break.


Another very valid approach to your opinion here is that you're very correct that team names don't matter a ton. And that that applies to both parties here.

So if you think it's absurd that a team name offends somebody, your own outrage about the change is equally absurd. Because it's a team name, which by your own logic just isn't that big of a deal.

From my perspective, the Indians name doesn't offend me personally. But I'm happy to take Native Americans at their word that they're offended, and have no problem with a name change. Because as you point out, it's just a team name.

Since it's not, in your mind, worth offense and doesn't matter a ton, there's a very easy high road that involves changing it because it does clearly offend some people.

It's very weird to me that your stance here is outrage that this meaningless thing could cause outrage. You're outraged, right? It's either meaningless or it's not. You seem to want it to be meaningless to the people it offends, while still insisting it carries enough meaning that changing it makes you angry.

Feels pretty hypocritical, but maybe I'm missing something.


You're wrong I'm not offended by the name change and never said I was. I just think changing the name is stupid.


Sure you do, being of a non-minority group what would you possibly understand about being offended?


Why do you assume I'm not a member of a minority group?
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BillyTheCat
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Member Since: 10/6/2012
Post Count: 9,797

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: No More Cleveland Indians
   Posted: 2/8/2021 2:45:53 PM 
ohiocatfan1 wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
ohiocatfan1 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
ohiocatfan1 wrote:
This world has lost its collective mind. Offended by a team name? Give me a break.


Another very valid approach to your opinion here is that you're very correct that team names don't matter a ton. And that that applies to both parties here.

So if you think it's absurd that a team name offends somebody, your own outrage about the change is equally absurd. Because it's a team name, which by your own logic just isn't that big of a deal.

From my perspective, the Indians name doesn't offend me personally. But I'm happy to take Native Americans at their word that they're offended, and have no problem with a name change. Because as you point out, it's just a team name.

Since it's not, in your mind, worth offense and doesn't matter a ton, there's a very easy high road that involves changing it because it does clearly offend some people.

It's very weird to me that your stance here is outrage that this meaningless thing could cause outrage. You're outraged, right? It's either meaningless or it's not. You seem to want it to be meaningless to the people it offends, while still insisting it carries enough meaning that changing it makes you angry.

Feels pretty hypocritical, but maybe I'm missing something.


You're wrong I'm not offended by the name change and never said I was. I just think changing the name is stupid.


Sure you do, being of a non-minority group what would you possibly understand about being offended?


Why do you assume I'm not a member of a minority group?



Your total lack of empathy, and if you are in a minority class, you clearly represent the 2% that does not feel the struggle today. Which in itself is sad.
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