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GoCats105
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| So Now What? |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 8:18:29 AM |
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Another big? Another PG? A slasher?
I will say one thing that this staff likes to keep things close to the vest, and I have no freaking clue which rabbit they're going to pull out their hat next.
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The Optimist
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| RE: So Now What? |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 8:38:29 AM |
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I think Teyvion is our starting PG next year.
I think Butler ultimately ends up as a SG but he should be able to play PG minutes as needed. With that said, I'd go best available.
I've seen crazier things happen.
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Bobcat1998
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| RE: So Now What? |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 10:05:42 AM |
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Could we go after the kid from Howard now? It appears Alstork will probably stay in the draft if Michigan went with Jaaron. I would still go after a wing like LePear Toles. We have some pieces back and some interesting newbies. I think if we go the grad transfer area again we don't have a lot of options left do we? An undergrad transfer from a big school? I don't know. Is Robotham available?
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OU_Country
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| RE: So Now What? |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 11:20:39 AM |
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I think if it were me, unless there's a transfer they can grab, I'm holding that 13th scholarship for next fall's signing period.
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GoCats105
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| RE: So Now What? |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 11:25:41 AM |
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| Bobcat1998 wrote: | |
| Could we go after the kid from Howard now? It appears Alstork will probably stay in the draft if Michigan went with Jaaron. I would still go after a wing like LePear Toles. We have some pieces back and some interesting newbies. I think if we go the grad transfer area again we don't have a lot of options left do we? An undergrad transfer from a big school? I don't know. Is Robotham available? |
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If we want to keep the classes even we go after another grad transfer for a one year rental who can play right away.
The whole wild card in this entire situation is James Gollon in my opinion. We didn't see enough of him as a freshman to see what he would really be like and he's coming off an injury. I'm curious to see where he stands in this lineup, especially with Kirk and Butler coming in. From the looks of the roster and body types, we almost have four combo guards (Dartis, Gollon, Kirk and Butler). I actually like that.
If those four guys can handle the ball, then take a shot at another grad transfer slashing wing or big. If not, I agree with Optimist getting the best available we can get within the realm of this team.
Last Edited: 4/25/2017 11:25:57 AM by GoCats105
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| RE: So Now What? |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 12:01:37 PM |
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| OU_Country wrote: | |
I think if it were me, unless there's a transfer they can grab, I'm holding that 13th scholarship for next fall's signing period.
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I wouldn't fill the scholarship just to use it, but we will have two more scholys available come fall so I am not too worried about holding this one back.
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OU_Country
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| RE: So Now What? |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 12:56:19 PM |
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| bigtillyoopsupsideurhead wrote: | |
| OU_Country wrote: | |
I think if it were me, unless there's a transfer they can grab, I'm holding that 13th scholarship for next fall's signing period.
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I wouldn't fill the scholarship just to use it, but we will have two more scholys available come fall so I am not too worried about holding this one back. |
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I guess that's kind of what I meant. Unless injuries become problems, depth shouldn't be an issue. (I know, we've all said this before)
So, unless there's someone who could be a homerun kind of player, I say hold it for someone who is, or Tony Campbell if he miraculously wins the appeal.
My line of thinking is that it seems to me it's more likely to find a difference maker in the fall than at this point in the game. Maybe I'm off base there though.
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Jeff McKinney
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| RE: So Now What? |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 1:31:26 PM |
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Maybe a grad transfer PG who could come in for a year to mentor our freshmen PGs? Who knows, I don't have a clue.
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OhioCatFan
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| RE: So Now What? |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 11:57:33 PM |
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| Bobcat1998 wrote: | |
| Could we go after the kid from Howard now? . . . |
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+1
I like this idea.
The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA
"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."
Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org
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bornacatfan
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| RE: So Now What? |
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Posted: 4/26/2017 7:49:20 AM |
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| Bobcat1998 wrote: | |
| Could we go after the kid from Howard now? |
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That statement just jumped out at me. Seems like this staff is all about fit first. In the past I have heard, "best available" and "where is he in our scheme". Groce, oddly enough changed the tenor and recruited kids from good families. The section went from Ms Tillman and the Walthers to Kelloggs, Taylors, Offutts, McKinley, Baltics...even Kinneys who had a son who stumbled and a slew of people who are still part of the program to this day...Now comes Saul and Co who really look at a recruit to see if they are going to fit in with the team and be a part of the locker room.
So....your question intrigued me, as, my perception is tinted.... when standing at a weekend tourney or ball game I have gone from watching a kid like Des Bane on the court to keeping watching him as he goes to the bench...how he treats his team mates, his manager, his coach and after the game who and how he interacts with the public. I don't think watching a kid or reading a stat line and going after "best available" as some staffs in the past have done is gonna get it done...got to dig a little deeper if the kid is going to be a Bobcat.
never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer.....
The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game
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UpSan Bobcat
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| RE: So Now What? |
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Posted: 4/26/2017 10:26:49 AM |
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| Jeff McKinney wrote: | |
| Maybe a grad transfer PG who could come in for a year to mentor our freshmen PGs? Who knows, I don't have a clue. |
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That would make sense. If it's a grad transfer, it doesn't even have to be a player who will start, just someone who can be a good influence.
I agree with others that a freshman recruit should only be a high-potential player. We'd be better off holding the scholarship than offering it to someone just to fill a spot.
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OU_Country
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| RE: So Now What? |
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Posted: 4/26/2017 11:47:12 AM |
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| bornacatfan wrote: | |
| Bobcat1998 wrote: | |
| Could we go after the kid from Howard now? |
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That statement just jumped out at me. Seems like this staff is all about fit first. In the past I have heard, "best available" and "where is he in our scheme". Groce, oddly enough changed the tenor and recruited kids from good families. The section went from Ms Tillman and the Walthers to Kelloggs, Taylors, Offutts, McKinley, Baltics...even Kinneys who had a son who stumbled and a slew of people who are still part of the program to this day...Now comes Saul and Co who really look at a recruit to see if they are going to fit in with the team and be a part of the locker room.
So....your question intrigued me, as, my perception is tinted.... when standing at a weekend tourney or ball game I have gone from watching a kid like Des Bane on the court to keeping watching him as he goes to the bench...how he treats his team mates, his manager, his coach and after the game who and how he interacts with the public. I don't think watching a kid or reading a stat line and going after "best available" as some staffs in the past have done is gonna get it done...got to dig a little deeper if the kid is going to be a Bobcat.
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Using this thought process, it wouldn't seem to be a coincidence that there haven't been any notable off court "issues" within the basketball program since Saul's staff arrived.
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OUVan
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| RE: So Now What? |
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Posted: 4/26/2017 12:00:13 PM |
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Personally, I say we go with what we've got and use the remaining scholarships on next year's crop. We have 5 new players coming in and that doesn't include James Gollon. Even with Simmons departure we have 12 players under scholarship. We are most likely not going to have more than a 9 man rotation so we are already having three of our scholarship players riding the pine. With Saul's record in recruiting we can expect three of our four freshman to be able to contribute right away.
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Bobcat1998
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| RE: So Now What? |
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Posted: 4/26/2017 12:55:57 PM |
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| OUVan wrote: | |
| Personally, I say we go with what we've got and use the remaining scholarships on next year's crop. We have 5 new players coming in and that doesn't include James Gollon. Even with Simmons departure we have 12 players under scholarship. We are most likely not going to have more than a 9 man rotation so we are already having three of our scholarship players riding the pine. With Saul's record in recruiting we can expect three of our four freshman to be able to contribute right away. |
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I would think that Butler and Kirk will play right away and one of either Vander Plas and Gareri, although Vander Plas, from what people say on here and from his film, looks more ready physically as a stretch 4 than Gareri has a primarily inside player. Gareri needs to add some muscle and he will be just fine. But...a lot of us said that about Carter last year and the kid was outstanding when Tone went down. Wouldn't it be nice to allow Gollon to ease back into the rotation this year and let Ellis continue to be a great teammate? A 10-man rotation would not be awful.
PG: Kirk to Butler
SG: Dartis to Laster
SF: Block to Vander Plas
PF: Carter to Gareri
C: Taylor to Mickle
Obviously some of the pieces are interchangeable but I still love Laster off the bench playing starter's minutes. And we haven't even met the new player with the open scholly yet so who knows? I do like our depth after having four schollies out injured last year.
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TWT
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| RE: So Now What? |
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Posted: 4/27/2017 12:40:40 AM |
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Go with a grad transfer PG as an insurance policy against injuries.
Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086
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Deciduous Forest Cat
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| RE: So Now What? |
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Posted: 4/27/2017 9:49:24 AM |
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| OUVan wrote: | |
| We are most likely not going to have more than a 9 man rotation so we are already having three of our scholarship players riding the pine. |
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When have we ever had more than a nine-man rotation?
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OUVan
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| RE: So Now What? |
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Posted: 4/27/2017 10:08:10 AM |
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| Deciduous Forest Cat wrote: | |
| OUVan wrote: | |
| We are most likely not going to have more than a 9 man rotation so we are already having three of our scholarship players riding the pine. |
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When have we ever had more than a nine-man rotation?
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Only found one instance since 2001 that we had more than 9 players average 10 minutes a game and that was 2013. I'd forgotten how little TOS used his bench. He went with an 8 man rotation most of the years he was here and even had a 7 man rotation one year.
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| RE: So Now What? |
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Posted: 4/27/2017 11:25:43 AM |
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| OUVan wrote: | |
| Deciduous Forest Cat wrote: | |
| OUVan wrote: | |
| We are most likely not going to have more than a 9 man rotation so we are already having three of our scholarship players riding the pine. |
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When have we ever had more than a nine-man rotation?
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Only found one instance since 2001 that we had more than 9 players average 10 minutes a game and that was 2013. I'd forgotten how little TOS used his bench. He went with an 8 man rotation most of the years he was here and even had a 7 man rotation one year. |
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In 2014 we had 10 guys averaging at least 20% of the game played. Up until Ricardo got hurt at least.
Also in 2013 as mentioned we had a 10 person rotation.
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OUVan
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| RE: So Now What? |
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Posted: 4/27/2017 10:39:15 PM |
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Jason Arkley tweeted that the open scholarship is being saved for Campbell and if he isn't granted a waiver they will use it for a 2018 player.
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bornacatfan
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| RE: So Now What? |
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Posted: 4/27/2017 11:34:26 PM |
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| bigtillyoopsupsideurhead wrote: | |
In 2014 we had 10 guys averaging at least 20% of the game played. Up until Ricardo got hurt at least.
Also in 2013 as mentioned we had a 10 person rotation. |
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Groce talked in the early days about wanting to be able to play "10 deep" in order to play fast. He liked the idea of pace and tempo being sped uo
never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer.....
The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game
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allen
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| RE: So Now What? |
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Posted: 4/28/2017 12:26:24 AM |
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| bornacatfan wrote: | |
| bigtillyoopsupsideurhead wrote: | |
In 2014 we had 10 guys averaging at least 20% of the game played. Up until Ricardo got hurt at least.
Also in 2013 as mentioned we had a 10 person rotation. |
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Groce talked in the early days about wanting to be able to play "10 deep" in order to play fast. He liked the idea of pace and tempo being sped uo
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+1
Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes
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GoCats105
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| RE: So Now What? |
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Posted: 4/28/2017 7:52:55 AM |
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| OUVan wrote: | |
| Jason Arkley tweeted that the open scholarship is being saved for Campbell and if he isn't granted a waiver they will use it for a 2018 player. |
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If that's the case, here's hoping they grant that scholarship to one of the walk-ons for the year if Campbell isn't granted the waiver.
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| RE: So Now What? |
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Posted: 4/28/2017 10:23:03 AM |
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| bornacatfan wrote: | |
| bigtillyoopsupsideurhead wrote: | |
In 2014 we had 10 guys averaging at least 20% of the game played. Up until Ricardo got hurt at least.
Also in 2013 as mentioned we had a 10 person rotation. |
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Groce talked in the early days about wanting to be able to play "10 deep" in order to play fast. He liked the idea of pace and tempo being sped uo
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In 2010 we were all set to have a 10 man rotation until Coleman and Kinney went AWOL then we were knocked back down to an 8 man rotation, but it worked out in the end.
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The Optimist
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| RE: So Now What? |
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Posted: 5/3/2017 1:39:23 AM |
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I recall looking at the average minutes guys got for Saul at NDSU when we hired him to determine if he favored large or small rotations... I couldn't find a trend. It seemed to me Saul varied it entirely year to year based on what he had.
I think the shell shock of all these transfers has a lot of people overlooking just how much depth we have returning. Dartis averaged 35mpg as a true sophomore last year. Block averaged 28. While I loved Culver's potential and thought he would develop nicely for us, with Laster getting the bulk of the minutes over the last 10 games and really cementing himself as our lockdown defender, the writing was on the wall that next year wasn't going to be the year Culver would get his shot for big minutes.
Dartis: 35
Block: 30
Laster: 25
Carter: 25
Kirk: 25
Mickle: 20
Taylor: 15
=175: I think most of these are self-explainatory. The reason I think Mickle averages a little more than Taylor is because Mickle already appears to be the best low-post defender on this roster. If Block is able to add a little more bulk, I could see Saul running with Block at the 4 a la Kaminski. If we do that Mickle and Carter create more matchup problems for opponents while Taylor gives us more of a traditional center. I could see each of those guys contributing at varying levels based on the matchups.
I could see any of the other 3 freshman contributing next year. Each gives us some options we wouldn't have otherwise. Who knows with Gollon and Dozier. Don't forget Dozier has a 7-0 wingspan. In addition to his redshirt year, he went to prep school for a year. He will be 22 before next year and only a sophomore for us.
I've seen crazier things happen.
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OU_Country
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| RE: So Now What? |
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Posted: 5/3/2017 12:16:53 PM |
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| The Optimist wrote: | |
I recall looking at the average minutes guys got for Saul at NDSU when we hired him to determine if he favored large or small rotations... I couldn't find a trend. It seemed to me Saul varied it entirely year to year based on what he had.
I think the shell shock of all these transfers has a lot of people overlooking just how much depth we have returning. Dartis averaged 35mpg as a true sophomore last year. Block averaged 28. While I loved Culver's potential and thought he would develop nicely for us, with Laster getting the bulk of the minutes over the last 10 games and really cementing himself as our lockdown defender, the writing was on the wall that next year wasn't going to be the year Culver would get his shot for big minutes.
Dartis: 35
Block: 30
Laster: 25
Carter: 25
Kirk: 25
Mickle: 20
Taylor: 15
=175: I think most of these are self-explainatory. The reason I think Mickle averages a little more than Taylor is because Mickle already appears to be the best low-post defender on this roster. If Block is able to add a little more bulk, I could see Saul running with Block at the 4 a la Kaminski. If we do that Mickle and Carter create more matchup problems for opponents while Taylor gives us more of a traditional center. I could see each of those guys contributing at varying levels based on the matchups.
I could see any of the other 3 freshman contributing next year. Each gives us some options we wouldn't have otherwise. Who knows with Gollon and Dozier. Don't forget Dozier has a 7-0 wingspan. In addition to his redshirt year, he went to prep school for a year. He will be 22 before next year and only a sophomore for us.
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The only thing I'd add to this is the likelihood that Gareri and/or Vanden Plas will get some big PT. They seem like such accomplished HS players that I expect it to happen.
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