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Topic:  Last scholarship for 2016

Topic:  Last scholarship for 2016
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FlashGary
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  Message Not Read  Last scholarship for 2016
   Posted: 11/25/2015 5:48:38 PM 
It seems to me that getting a post player, a center, needs to be considered with the last 2016 scholarship. If not, with Tony and Wadley being seniors next season, that would leave us counting on a freshman or a junior college player in 2017--when the rest of the team figures to be ready to do some serious damage. I'm basing this on envisioning Doug Taylor and Ellis Dozier as forwards, which I really can't know. Bringing in a transfer big who would sit out next season--while learning the system and practicing against our big guys-could be the way to go, if such a player materializes.

Last Edited: 11/25/2015 5:52:10 PM by FlashGary
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The Optimist
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  Message Not Read  RE: Last scholarship for 2016
   Posted: 11/26/2015 10:27:57 AM 
From how we are playing this year, I think Saul is trying to go for a bunch of hybrid forwards who are big but offensively are capable of stepping out and hitting threes (a la kaminski) as opposed to more of a true center (like wadly)

So far, I think this years team has shown the positives and negatives of that. We are gonna score like crazy but defense is concerning.

Many have mentioned a PG for that last spot because other than Jaaron it is just kinda some guys who "can" run point but aren't true points... Would not shock me if Saul goes for another wing though... You would think that is overloaded but look at this years' team... We have Harley starting at SG and he is really a 6-9 wing. Would not shock me if Saul eventually tries to start 5 guys who are basically just wings eventually. Some with post abilities, some with guard abilities.

I've seen crazier things happen.

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bigtillyoopsupsideurhead
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  Message Not Read  RE: Last scholarship for 2016
   Posted: 11/27/2015 1:26:43 PM 
I think Doug Taylor is difinitely more of a Center than a PF, but either way I would just go best available player here.

We don't have any glaring holes so I think Saul can wait for the best possible player to fall into our lap, possibly a transfer even.
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FlashGary
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  Message Not Read  RE: Last scholarship for 2016
   Posted: 11/27/2015 7:57:35 PM 
The need for a center doesn't mean he can't be a stretch, a guy like Tony Campbell, who can step outside and pop. But it does mean he has to have a strong post presence, for without that in the lineup, opponents can defend the perimeter because they won't have to worry that much about someone fouling out their bigs in one-on-one play. My rationale, and it's my reasoning only, is that coach Phillips insists he's going to stay here for quite a while. I believe him. I would think his ultimate goal is more than just compiling a bunch of MAC championships and making an occasional run at the Sweet 16. The deeper you get into the Big Dance, the more perimeter shooters and post play becomes a factor. Quality size does matter. We saw that playing against Tulsa and Florida State. So it will be interesting to see what happens. I'm certainly for taking the best player available at a position of need. The good news is we won't really have to deal with this until after next season.
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Casper71
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  Message Not Read  RE: Last scholarship for 2016
   Posted: 12/2/2015 10:05:03 AM 
I think the most glaring weakness of most all MAC teams when they get to the dance is the lack of quality big men. This is often the differentiating factor when going against Top 30 or so programs. Every once in a while a big one develops in the MAC but seldom does one fall in your lap.
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Last scholarship for 2016
   Posted: 12/2/2015 11:31:26 AM 
Casper71 wrote:
I think the most glaring weakness of most all MAC teams when they get to the dance is the lack of quality big men. This is often the differentiating factor when going against Top 30 or so programs. Every once in a while a big one develops in the MAC but seldom does one fall in your lap.




That's an interesting thought, and one I hadn't considered. I always think of being sure of guard play being at a high level.

I don't know what a normal strategy is with regard to balancing classes? I pondered about this over the holiday weekend, and have kind of figured that a few scenarios come into play. First, they wanted a guard/wing/big in the early signing period, and he chose elsewhere. Or maybe they're holding onto that last one until the spring when they really know what they want/need. Let's be honest, it's not crucial to use this scholarship for 2016 given that everyone but Setty seems set to return next year. So maybe they're thinking of waiting til next year with using it.
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OUVan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Last scholarship for 2016
   Posted: 12/2/2015 11:49:57 AM 
Casper71 wrote:
I think the most glaring weakness of most all MAC teams when they get to the dance is the lack of quality big men. This is often the differentiating factor when going against Top 30 or so programs. Every once in a while a big one develops in the MAC but seldom does one fall in your lap.


I don't know if that is true. Take a look at the last few years. Akron had Zeke Marshall, Western had Shane Whittington, Buffalo had Justin Moss and Xavier Ford. Kent had Haminn Quaintance. We didn't have dominant big men yet we won in the tournament behind good guard play. Obviously our big men helped a bunch but I'm not sure you need great big men.
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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: Last scholarship for 2016
   Posted: 12/2/2015 2:29:55 PM 
Those examples are teams with one quality big man. On the other hand, consider what I believe to be one of the MAC's all-time best frontlines. The 1983 Bobcats of John Devereaux, Eddie Hicks, Victor Alexander and Nate Cole could go up against frontlines from bigger schools/conferences.

That is . . . until they had to play the twin towers of UK in the second round of the NCAA tournament.

Last Edited: 12/2/2015 2:30:15 PM by bobcatsquared
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Last scholarship for 2016
   Posted: 12/2/2015 2:48:12 PM 
OUVan wrote:
Casper71 wrote:
I think the most glaring weakness of most all MAC teams when they get to the dance is the lack of quality big men. This is often the differentiating factor when going against Top 30 or so programs. Every once in a while a big one develops in the MAC but seldom does one fall in your lap.


I don't know if that is true. Take a look at the last few years. Akron had Zeke Marshall, Western had Shane Whittington, Buffalo had Justin Moss and Xavier Ford. Kent had Haminn Quaintance. We didn't have dominant big men yet we won in the tournament behind good guard play. Obviously our big men helped a bunch but I'm not sure you need great big men.



True, and Akron really had no PG that year, and I don't think WMU had a good one. Buffalo had two pretty good ones, and that Kent team had veteran guards, and both teams lost.

I still honestly believe that in the tournament, good guards are most important. Having bigs that can at least competitively defend and rebound, and occasionally keep the opponent honest on offense is important though, which is why I gave credit and hadn't considered it.
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Mark Lembright '85
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  Message Not Read  RE: Last scholarship for 2016
   Posted: 12/2/2015 8:05:55 PM 
OU_Country wrote:
OUVan wrote:
Casper71 wrote:
I think the most glaring weakness of most all MAC teams when they get to the dance is the lack of quality big men. This is often the differentiating factor when going against Top 30 or so programs. Every once in a while a big one develops in the MAC but seldom does one fall in your lap.


I don't know if that is true. Take a look at the last few years. Akron had Zeke Marshall, Western had Shane Whittington, Buffalo had Justin Moss and Xavier Ford. Kent had Haminn Quaintance. We didn't have dominant big men yet we won in the tournament behind good guard play. Obviously our big men helped a bunch but I'm not sure you need great big men.



True, and Akron really had no PG that year, and I don't think WMU had a good one. Buffalo had two pretty good ones, and that Kent team had veteran guards, and both teams lost.

I still honestly believe that in the tournament, good guards are most important. Having bigs that can at least competitively defend and rebound, and occasionally keep the opponent honest on offense is important though, which is why I gave credit and hadn't considered it.



Groce always thought good point guards were the key.
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Casper71
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  Message Not Read  RE: Last scholarship for 2016
   Posted: 12/4/2015 1:41:45 PM 
Folks, I said we lacked good big men against NCAA teams. The MAC is definitely a different story. MOST biggs that MAC teams get are NOT at all dominant. Duke, KY, UNC, etc., their big men destroy MAC big men. And I know this is a generalization and there are exceptions. I'm just stating the norm.

Last Edited: 12/4/2015 1:42:51 PM by Casper71
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PhiTau74
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  Message Not Read  RE: Last scholarship for 2016
   Posted: 12/4/2015 4:04:38 PM 
I remember the 2010 loss to Tenn in the NCAA tournament and they absolutely killed us with their size. They actually had a team size wise like our current starting five all 6'8" to 6'10" and about 6-7 of them. You can only get so far on three point shots and when you get cold it's all over.
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bornacatfan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Last scholarship for 2016
   Posted: 12/5/2015 10:21:33 AM 
PhiTau74 wrote:
I remember the 2010 loss to Tenn in the NCAA tournament and they absolutely killed us with their size. They actually had a team size wise like our current starting five all 6'8" to 6'10" and about 6-7 of them. You can only get so far on three point shots and when you get cold it's all over.


Tennessee went 5 11 6 2 6 7 67 6 9
We went 5 11 6 2 6 5 6 6 6 8 6 8 6 10

I don't think Chism, Hopson or keely were close to their stat sheets But Devo KVK and others were pretty accurate
.

on Ken Pom their effective height was 38th and ours was 53rd in the NCAA that year. I don't see a huge disparity....except that KVK couldn't leap over an empty toilet paper roll.

Tenn Personnel
Bench Minutes: 39.6% 20 31.0%
Experience: 1.94 yrs 97 1.70
Effective Height: +2.2 38 0.0
Average Height: 78.0" 19 76.5"



Ohio Personnel
Bench Minutes: 28.7% 226 31.0%
Experience: 1.37 yrs 287 1.70
Effective Height: +1.9 54 0.0
Average Height: 76.8" 138 76.5"

never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer.....

The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game

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PhiTau74
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  Message Not Read  RE: Last scholarship for 2016
   Posted: 12/5/2015 2:13:36 PM 
Why do you show 7 players for us but the starting 5 for them? My point was they had 6-7 guys 6'8"-6'10" but you only show their starting 5. You proved my point by showing their bench played 40% of the time meaning they kept rotating in big guys and we didn't have but one really.

Just to show apples to apples our starting 5 played almost the entire game, only Keely played 10 minutes and Sayles played 7 minutes. Their 3 starting guards were 6'7", 6'7" and 6'3". Our starting guards were 5'11", 6'2" and 6'5" so a total mismatch. There center 6'10" and forward 6'9" and us 6'10" and 6'8". Bassett and Cooper played the entire 40 minutes and Washington 38, KV 33 and Freeman 32 so going back to my point we had no quality size back up or depth and they killed us with size as they rotated in 6'6" Tatum and 6'8" Hall and a few others. So I was correct, 2- 6'7" guys, 6'8", 6'9", 6'10" and 6' 6". Would you care to retract your information.

One other point, I said Tenn reminded me of the current Bobcats and I was dead on. Ohio now, 6'1, 6'8", 6'8", 6'9" and 6'10". Tenn then, 6'3", 6'7, 6'7, 6'9" and 6'10". Doesn't get any closer and is exactly the same when you add the heights.

Last Edited: 12/5/2015 3:08:43 PM by PhiTau74
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OUVan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Last scholarship for 2016
   Posted: 12/7/2015 11:04:43 AM 
PhiTau74 wrote:

One other point, I said Tenn reminded me of the current Bobcats and I was dead on. Ohio now, 6'1, 6'8", 6'8", 6'9" and 6'10". Tenn then, 6'3", 6'7, 6'7, 6'9" and 6'10". Doesn't get any closer and is exactly the same when you add the heights.



I think that underscores what I was saying. Their size bothered DJ and Armon but it wasn't the frontcourt size it was their backcourt size. Tommy had a huge game though if I recall. Having 6'7" wings is something he had seen all the time. But there weren't too many athletic 6'3", 6'7" backcourts in the MAC.
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bornacatfan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Last scholarship for 2016
   Posted: 12/7/2015 11:49:15 AM 
I just looked it up in a hurry because I did not remember TN being all that different height wise. I put Sayles and Keely in there because I remembered the offense for defense thing and them playing some minutes in a key stretch. I did not include Baltic because I did not remember his 6'8 getting off the bench much that game. I had to look up the height on Kenpm bcause I honestly did not remeber it being a huge difference. The numbers, out of 341 D1 colleges are as close as I thought they were. As I said, I did not think the heights Pearl listed were accurate . THe reserves I remember were Pearl, Goins and Tatum at 6'5 and 6 foot ish. Don't remeber seeing the the other bigs as a factor or getting meaningful time on the floor. I don;t see a 6 10 kid that played for them in the box http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/boxscores/2010-03-20-... . I usually look at sizes during warm ups and figure out the mismatches. I really did not see mismatch disparity in person pre game and still don't in my mind. I think the rosters in the box below bear that out. Chism is like Leon. Listed as 6'8/9 but not really when you stand next to him. Devo is a true 6 8 but is listed from 6 7 to 6 9. My eyeball says there was not a ton of disparity here compared to schools on our schedule and across the NCAA. Just my opinion and certainly not where I felt they "they absolutely killed us with their size" . Thieir length, speed and penetration were a challenge as well as the season schedule that had prepared them for us.

That said I can retract it all if there is a huge disparity in your eyes.
Van you are right. Tommy had 23 that game.I asked what Pearl had taken so long talking to him about in the handshake line....he said "kid, you're a hell of a shooter, hope we never see you again".....presumably before he hatched plans to try and make a play for our PG.

never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer.....

The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game

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colobobcat66
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  Message Not Read  RE: Last scholarship for 2016
   Posted: 12/16/2015 12:30:37 PM 
I have heard that we have our eyes open for a great transfer like Kamimski who can fit our needs. Makes sense to me, although if he is not a graduate, he would sit out a year.
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Last scholarship for 2016
   Posted: 12/16/2015 4:00:11 PM 
colobobcat66 wrote:
I have heard that we have our eyes open for a great transfer like Kamimski who can fit our needs. Makes sense to me, although if he is not a graduate, he would sit out a year.


It would fit the program well though, because Kenny graduates, and said transfer becomes eligible.
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