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Topic: OT-UT paying for their athletes

Topic: OT-UT paying for their athletes

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Kinggeorge4
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Member Since: 12/22/2004
Location: Guysville, OH
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OT-UT paying for their athletes

Posted: 9/17/2024 3:41:24 PM

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/41302985...

GO BOBCATS
GEORGE

greencat
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Member Since: 3/12/2005
Post Count: 2,237

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RE: OT-UT paying for their athletes

Posted: 9/17/2024 5:11:14 PM

They've been paying athletes for at least 50 years.

And that's not all...

Here's a classic...

https://www.espn.com/ncaa/s/2003/1006/1632218.html

M.D.W.S.T
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Member Since: 12/23/2021
Post Count: 2,260

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RE: OT-UT paying for their athletes

Posted: 9/17/2024 6:03:49 PM

We don�t have many avenues to NIL cash, It�s something we should consider.

100%Cat
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Member Since: 1/17/2013
Post Count: 2,533

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RE: OT-UT paying for their athletes

Posted: 9/18/2024 10:31:52 AM

Can we stop calling it NIL at this point? This started out as players profiting from endorsements and advertising type things, which seemed true to "NIL." If we're taking ticket sales money and paying players with it, this is pay-to-play, to me.

Let me be clear, I don't care that players get money from this avenue. I have a problem with calling it "NIL" if it's not. Just call it what it is.

Chris Galloway
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 59

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RE: OT-UT paying for their athletes

Posted: 9/18/2024 11:56:27 AM

M.D.W.S.T wrote:

We don�t have many avenues to NIL cash, It�s something we should consider.

100% agree. Add 10-20% or earmark the parking fees. Something. Anything.

Go Bobcats!

Deciduous Forest Cat
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Ohio
Post Count: 4,378

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RE: OT-UT paying for their athletes

Posted: 9/18/2024 12:55:01 PM

Chris Galloway wrote:

M.D.W.S.T wrote:

We don�t have many avenues to NIL cash, It�s something we should consider.

100% agree. Add 10-20% or earmark the parking fees. Something. Anything.

If we could simply charge more without losing attendance, I'm certain we would have tried that just to support the department. Why would we do it now just to pay players when we have bills to pay, scholarships to support, facilities to maintain/fix?

greencat
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Member Since: 3/12/2005
Post Count: 2,237

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RE: OT-UT paying for their athletes

Posted: 9/18/2024 1:49:29 PM

greencat wrote:

They've been paying athletes for at least 50 years.

And that's not all...

Here's a classic...

https://www.espn.com/ncaa/s/2003/1006/1632218.html

THIS was always a hoot, hence "if the vols get caught cheating one more time, the NCAA is gonna give SMU the death penalty again, and this time they mean it!"
https://www.thefulmercup.com/standings /

M.D.W.S.T
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Member Since: 12/23/2021
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RE: OT-UT paying for their athletes

Posted: 9/18/2024 2:24:55 PM

Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:

Chris Galloway wrote:

M.D.W.S.T wrote:

We don�t have many avenues to NIL cash, It�s something we should consider.

100% agree. Add 10-20% or earmark the parking fees. Something. Anything.

Well for starters, you know or are at least told directly where the money is going, where increases - or even donations - are often ambiguous.

A ticket increase for shits is much different than "we're increasing your tickets because we want to put this best product on the field and maintain our position in the conference".

And/or parking. Park in lots X, Y and Z and $10 of your cost goes directly to the athletes.

Deciduous Forest Cat
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Ohio
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RE: OT-UT paying for their athletes

Posted: 9/18/2024 2:50:44 PM

M.D.W.S.T wrote:

Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:

Chris Galloway wrote:

M.D.W.S.T wrote:

We don�t have many avenues to NIL cash, It�s something we should consider.

100% agree. Add 10-20% or earmark the parking fees. Something. Anything.

A ticket increase for shits is much different than "we're increasing your tickets because we want to put this best product on the field and maintain our position in the conference".

Since you brought it up, designating an increase for improving the bathrooms is a great idea.

Alan Swank
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Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,072

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RE: OT-UT paying for their athletes

Posted: 9/18/2024 7:56:18 PM

Done. Glad I can go watch high school games (unless the OHSAA screws that up).

Pataskala
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Member Since: 7/8/2010
Location: At least six feet away from anybody else
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RE: OT-UT paying for their athletes

Posted: 9/18/2024 10:01:50 PM

Just one more fee on a ticket, like the Ticketmaster fee, the local entertainment tax, the seat license, etc. I'm sure Tenn's fans will continue to fork over their hard-earned dollars so long as Tenn still beats a team like Kent 71-0. Student tickets actually go up 25%, from $20 to $25 after a 100% increase this season.

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

OhioBobcat
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Member Since: 1/20/2006
Post Count: 1,605

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RE: OT-UT paying for their athletes

Posted: 9/19/2024 11:15:25 AM

100%Cat wrote:

Concerning Tennessee's new "talent fee," it is complete BS that this idea directly falls on the alum and fans to pay the frickin' players. I find it utterly insulting and outrageous. Look, I was open to the idea of NIL as the Olympic Sport model it was presented to us as all from the start (student athletes could profit from their name, image and likeness with jersey sales, signing autographs, doing commercials, etc). However, that cover was a farce based on how Collectives operate under NIL. Still, whether you like NIL or not, or give/gave to Collectives or not, you as a fan/alum don't/didn't have to buy into it (literally or figuratively). But the important thing was - you could make a choice. You could do it, or you could not. The choice was yours. You could still go to games and support the program with your paid admission, paid parking, paid concessions, etc. But you weren't forced to also pay them players.

Now, in the case of UT, they are going to raise ticket prices to DIRECTLY pay the players. Tennessee doesn't want to use the gobs of money it brings in to pay its own players. It wants to pass the buck - literally - to the alums and fans who have already been giving money, to do it for them. Tennessee isn't asking those who go to the game if they want to give money to the UT players, they are now telling you that you will. Complete BS! Let's not sugarcoat it here. Tennessee is rolling player payment into their ticket prices. In 2025, you will buy a game ticket for $100. The fan/alum will chalk this up as the price of admission, but Tennessee will process this as a $90 sale and a $10 player payment. The "true" admission fee would be $90. But you would be turned away and not allowed to enter until you paid $10 more to also directly pay the players - that you already spent $90 to watch. It's complete hor$eshit. And sadly, it's probable going to catch on and be used by many others.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: OT-UT paying for their athletes

Posted: 9/19/2024 11:17:52 AM

100%Cat wrote:

Don't we already know that it's going to become revenue share directly from the universities to the players? There have been some challenges to that settlement, but it feels inevitable to me that that's the route.

BillyTheCat
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Member Since: 10/6/2012
Post Count: 9,796

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RE: OT-UT paying for their athletes

Posted: 9/19/2024 4:24:13 PM

Alan Swank wrote:

Done. Glad I can go watch high school games (unless the OHSAA screws that up).

Like the NCAAits the state legislatures and judges �screwing� what you remember as sports up. Today there are 13 exceptions to having to sit out. The OHSAA isn�t responsible for any of those exceptions!

BillyTheCat
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Member Since: 10/6/2012
Post Count: 9,796

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RE: OT-UT paying for their athletes

Posted: 9/19/2024 4:26:56 PM

One person here stated years ago, be careful what you wish for with the NIL

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: OT-UT paying for their athletes

Posted: 9/19/2024 5:57:43 PM

Ohio taxes every single student to fund the athletic department and so they can afford to participate in athletics at the D1 level. Doesn't matter if you don't care a tiny bit about sports, and never intend to go to a single game in your 4 years in Athens. In 2020, that was $736 per year per student. It's likely increased since.

Can someone explain to me why that's okay, but raising ticket prices by 10% for the people most interested in Tennessee football is a bridge too far?

One of those two things definitely sounds egregious to me. But it's not the idea that fans of SEC football might be willing to pay 10% more than they do currently.

Last Edited: 9/19/2024 6:11:52 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

greencat
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Member Since: 3/12/2005
Post Count: 2,237

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RE: OT-UT paying for their athletes

Posted: 9/19/2024 6:28:21 PM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

Can someone explain to me why that's okay, but raising ticket prices by 10% for the people most interested in Tennessee football is a bridge too far?

Compared to the chicanery ut vols sports has gotten away with for decades upon decades with nothing more than slaps on the wrist and show-cause bans against already fired coaches?

Their baseball team went from 98 total home runs a few seasons ago to 184? Not without tampered bats and "who knows what else."

M.D.W.S.T
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Member Since: 12/23/2021
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RE: OT-UT paying for their athletes

Posted: 9/19/2024 9:25:24 PM

greencat wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

Can someone explain to me why that's okay, but raising ticket prices by 10% for the people most interested in Tennessee football is a bridge too far?

I�m here for sec conspiracy hour.

greencat
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RE: OT-UT paying for their athletes

Posted: 9/20/2024 9:11:14 AM

M.D.W.S.T wrote:

greencat wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

Can someone explain to me why that's okay, but raising ticket prices by 10% for the people most interested in Tennessee football is a bridge too far?

I�m here for sec conspiracy hour.

This is a direct quote from the NCAA about that football program:

Head coach responsibility
Due to the former head coach's direct involvement in intentionally providing impermissible inducements and benefits to prospects, student-athletes and their families, he violated head coach responsibility rules. Additionally, he failed to monitor his staff when at least a dozen members of the football staff committed more than 200 violations of NCAA rules over a two-year period and did not self-report any of those violations.

"During the head coach's tenure, he and other members of his staff acted with general and blatant disregard for rules compliance," the panel said.

The panel also was troubled by a former staff member who stated that she failed to report violations because she feared retaliation and backlash, which "spotlights the toxic culture that existed under the head coach's leadership."

Unethical conduct
Because coaches and recruiting staff members knowingly violated NCAA rules pertaining to recruiting, official and unofficial visits, inducements and impermissible benefits, involved individuals violated NCAA ethical conduct rules.

Additional unethical conduct violations occurred when the former director of recruiting influenced a prospect's mother to provide false or misleading information during the school's investigation, and when the former director of recruiting and assistant coaches 1 and 2 failed to cooperate with the investigation when they provided false or misleading information during the investigation.

After their separations from Tennessee, the former head coach, director of recruiting, recruiting assistant and assistant coach 1 also violated ethical conduct rules when they provided false or misleading information to the school and NCAA enforcement staff.

Failure to monitor
The panel acknowledged in its decision that Tennessee has dedicated significant financial and personnel resources to its compliance program, which was led by a highly respected individual. The panel also acknowledged that the coaches and other football staff in this case intentionally worked to conceal their conduct from compliance staff.

However, the panel determined that despite the compliance department's efforts, the scope and egregiousness of the violations in this case and the department's failure to detect the violations indicate that Tennessee failed to monitor the football program.

"The failure at Tennessee was cultural," the panel said. "It was a failure of all stakeholders to embrace the shared responsibility of monitoring and compliance and to create a culture where those responsibilities were prioritized and rewarded. This cannot simply be the responsibility of the compliance staff."

OhioBobcat
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RE: OT-UT paying for their athletes

Posted: 9/20/2024 9:49:41 AM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

As for Ohio and the student fee, you won't get an argument from me saying that it is fair. Now, one could make the argument it further enhances one's college experience by having athletics at one's respective school, which I believe it does - although I love sports so I admit I am bias. But I do think it adds something for many students as a number of them go to various events (football, basketball, volleyball, etc) over the course of 4-5 years, even if they're not very interested much in some of those sports. But that certainly wouldn't apply to those who don't care or go whatsoever about it and the majority doesn't apply to the entirety. That said, it still differs from openly putting money into players' pockets. The student fee that goes towards athletics is "funding opportunities for Ohio athletes." The students are then afforded the opportunity to attend those games and are even allowed to try out and join those programs (walk-ons) if they want. The student fee portion for athletics in relation to non-athletes is essentially like paying for season tickets to Ohio events. But that money goes to the UNIVERSITY and towards university programs. The Tennessee "talent fee" goes to the ATHLETES as they are being paid from it. These are two VERY different topics you're comparing here. Further, the talent fee is an additional fee to the admission fees to even attend games. That said, the two fees being compared here go to two very different ending points. One goes towards a university's operations fund, the other goes to someone's bank account. That's very, very different.

Last Edited: 9/20/2024 9:55:52 AM by OhioBobcat

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: OT-UT paying for their athletes

Posted: 9/20/2024 12:35:24 PM

OhioBobcat wrote:

I get this argument, but I think there's a logical inconsistency here. Because OU could have sports without student fees; they just wouldn't be D1 sports. So the argument can't be that athletics specifically enhances the college experience, it has to be that D1 athletics specifically enhances the experience in a way that D2/D3 wouldn't.

And once you're making that argument, it's an argument about the quality of your teams and programs, and I'm not sure how one then draws the distinction between money going to the university to attract the best athletes possible and money going to the athletes directly to incentivize them to come.

OhioBobcat wrote:

That said, it still differs from openly putting money into players' pockets. The student fee that goes towards athletics is "funding opportunities for Ohio athletes." The students are then afforded the opportunity to attend those games and are even allowed to try out and join those programs (walk-ons) if they want. The student fee portion for athletics in relation to non-athletes is essentially like paying for season tickets to Ohio events. But that money goes to the UNIVERSITY and towards university programs. The Tennessee "talent fee" goes to the ATHLETES as they are being paid from it. These are two VERY different topics you're comparing here.

I don't think they're all that different. In both cases, the fees end up going to athletes. It's just a question of the form it takes, and who decides how it's spent.

Personally, I think the NCAA and its member schools have so massively f*cked up college athletics over the last 30 years that I don't understand why anybody would want them as a middle man deciding how money should be spent.

They have fundamentally failed at their very basic task of running these programs in a way that isn't blatantly illegal, and the chaos we're seeing right now is 100% their doing.

OhioBobcat wrote:

Further, the talent fee is an additional fee to the admission fees to even attend games. That said, the two fees being compared here go to two very different ending points. One goes towards a university's operations fund, the other goes to someone's bank account. That's very, very different.

The funds are only in the university's operations fund briefly. Then they're scholarships for athletes, coaching staff salaries, travel budgets, etc. etc.

Either way, I find it pretty baffling that everybody accepted the status quo of taxing students to fund D1 students, but the idea that players share in revenue has a couple of folks here swearing off college sports.

It also seems that people missed the significance of the NCAA settlement. That's what Tennessee is preparing for and athletes will now share a set percentage of athletic revenue annually.

If folks here think that schools aren't going to be looking at ways to increase revenue now that they're sharing it with the athletes, I'm not sure what to tell them. And if they think the alums, fans, and students aren't going to be looked at as a source of revenue, that's pretty baffling. They always have been a source of revenue; for some reason though some people are very upset that the revenue is going somewhere new now.

Last Edited: 9/20/2024 12:41:37 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

OhioBobcat
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RE: OT-UT paying for their athletes

Posted: 9/20/2024 2:14:19 PM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

OhioBobcat wrote:

I see your point about the divisions but there is a massive difference when discussing D-I compared to D-II or D-III when factoring in everything involved with athletics in those respective divisions. I do think D-I programs have much more to offer a student body, but that's an entirely different discussion. I do however, adamantly disagree with that statement that the fees (student fees vs talent fees) aren't all that different. They are massively different. Yes, the "student fee" certainly benefits student athletes, but it's absorbed by the operation costs for the programs that the university funds and the student athletes are not in control of those funds. They CANNOT individually spend that money on themselves. The "talent fee" however, is something they CAN spend on themselves. It's an extension of NIL, this is money that will go into their pocket. A student athlete cannot take funds from the "student fees" and buy things for themselves like a TV, jewelry, shoes, etc. However, a student athlete CAN take funds from the "talent fees" and buy things. Student fee funds do not go to a student athlete's bank account. Talent fee fund (like NIL) do/will go to a student athlete's back account. These are two very different topics.

CatsUp
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RE: OT-UT paying for their athletes

Posted: 9/20/2024 2:22:12 PM

Thought I�d put this here instead of a new thread. Maybe it�s some sort of opportunity for the university. I�ve been told alum Elliott Harris has been named Nike CEO & President.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: OT-UT paying for their athletes

Posted: 9/20/2024 2:43:17 PM

Yep, his LinkedIn profile's been going viral today because he started with Nike as an intern and worked his way up.

Unfortunately, it looks like he's more of a TCU fan and donor.

BillyTheCat
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RE: OT-UT paying for their athletes

Posted: 9/21/2024 5:31:53 PM

Students through various fees pay for a lot of things they may never use or attend.

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