Welcome Guest!
Create an Account
login email:
password:
site searchwhere to watchcontact usabout usadvertise with ushelp
Message Board
Share
BobcatAttack.com Message Board
Ohio Football
Topic:  Traditional MAC football powers

Topic:  Traditional MAC football powers
Author
Message
OrlandoCat
General User

Member Since: 3/15/2005
Post Count: 24

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  Traditional MAC football powers
   Posted: 7/27/2010 6:29:46 PM 
Do we have any, or even one for that matter?

Looking back If I had to choose a football power, I'd say the closest thing we have to one is possibly UT or maybe Western Michigan.

Marshal might have been had they stayed.

We have Kent, Akron, Miami, and possibly us as powers in Basketball, but I don't really think we have any true football powers.  I think this is part of the reason why the MAC isn't respected much nationally.

Any ideas on this?
Back to Top
  
colobobcat66
General User

Member Since: 9/1/2006
Location: Looking out my window at Pikes Peak, CO
Post Count: 42

Status: Online
  Message Not Read  RE: Traditional MAC football powers
   Posted: 7/27/2010 9:09:59 PM 
It's pretty obvious to me that none of the current members has been able to sustain any elite status for long.  Marshall was the closest thing to it the second time around.  Toledo, Miami and most recently Central has had some good years in a row.  Let's see what Central can do without the once in 30 year QB they just lost.   How Miami can go from ranked to rank in so short a time is amazing, but of course Miami Sucks so it should be no real surprise to any reasonable person.
Back to Top
  
L.C.
General User

Member Since: 8/31/2005
Location: United States
Post Count: 41

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Traditional MAC football powers
   Posted: 7/28/2010 2:46:06 AM 
As of now, the all time winning percentages by school:
Miami .598
CMU .564
WMU .509
Ohio .498
NIU .486
BGSU .483
Akron .482
Toledo .465
EMU .428
Temple .407
Ball State .400
Buffalo .339
Can't .300
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Division_I_football_win...
Back to Top
  
Wes
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Alexandria, VA
Post Count: 34

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Traditional MAC football powers
   Posted: 7/28/2010 12:01:35 PM 
I would say Toledo and BG are the purest example of MAC powers. That is the biggest football game in the conference every year. Miami has to be considered a power with all of its MAC titles and tradition of tough schedules without and FCS teams. Northern Ill. has the largest market in the MAC and a lot of success.  They always have a big game in Soldier Field against a BCS opponent. The halcyon year of MAC football (2003) had NIU, BG, and Miami all finishing in the top 25. Toledo and Marshall were additionally in the top 40.

Bobcat Sustainability

2010 Taylor Price, 3rd Round (NE Patriots)
2009 Mike Mitchell, 2nd Round (Oakland Raiders)
2008 Landon Cohen, 7th Round (Detroit Lions) 
Back to Top
  
Maryland Bobcat
General User



Member Since: 12/28/2004
Location: Baltimore, MD
Post Count: 10

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Traditional MAC football powers
   Posted: 7/28/2010 1:10:35 PM 
If I were forced to choose I would rank the top four as:

1. Toledo
2. Central
3. BG
4. Miami

CMU has 7 MAC titles since 1979.
BG as 10 titles, 4 in the last 30 years
UT 10 titles - at least one in every decade since the 60's. They're also 7-3 in bowl games
Miami has 14 titles, but only 2 in the last 30 years.
Back to Top
  
Wes
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Alexandria, VA
Post Count: 34

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Traditional MAC football powers
   Posted: 7/28/2010 1:31:25 PM 
The only reason I wouldn't place Central in my top 4 is with that backwoods location they don't really have any special advantages over MAC programs. They are like Ohio with good attendance and have had a few special coaches tenure there (for Ohio think Hess, Grobe, Solich) but have had some real lows too. Not many MAC titles have been decided on the outcome of CMU/WMU. The combined titles of BG/Toledo, success in every MAC era, battle of I-75 speaks volumes. 

Bobcat Sustainability

2010 Taylor Price, 3rd Round (NE Patriots)
2009 Mike Mitchell, 2nd Round (Oakland Raiders)
2008 Landon Cohen, 7th Round (Detroit Lions) 
Back to Top
  
OhioCatFan
General User



Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 136

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Traditional MAC football powers
   Posted: 7/28/2010 4:27:32 PM 
What does "backwoods location" have to do with anything, Wes? Would you exclude Purdue and Penn State from some list of B11 powers soley on the basis of their backwoods locations?  There are other reason to exclude them, I'll admit, but I don't see that the fact that they are located in middle of nowhere is a legitimate criteria. 

Got Frank . . . Got Dreams!

"If you can dream it, you can do it!"
-- Jim Schaus, Ohio AD
Back to Top
  
OrlandoCat
General User

Member Since: 3/15/2005
Post Count: 24

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Traditional MAC football powers
   Posted: 7/28/2010 4:30:03 PM 
I think Penn State is a B11...B12? power.

You coud use the same argument for VTech and the ACC.
Back to Top
  
Wes
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Alexandria, VA
Post Count: 34

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Traditional MAC football powers
   Posted: 7/28/2010 10:24:07 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
What does "backwoods location" have to do with anything, Wes? Would you exclude Purdue and Penn State from some list of B11 powers soley on the basis of their backwoods locations?  There are other reason to exclude them, I'll admit, but I don't see that the fact that they are located in middle of nowhere is a legitimate criteria. 


Penn State and VT are Morril Act, land grant colleges and the largest of their respective states which receive more money from their state legislature than Ohio State. They dominate their respective states (regions really) and can always take the best players available. The net effect of this completely off-sets their rural location. In the discussion of which school is the best situated/best advantaged MAC school other schools are better off than CMU in that regard. They caught lightening in a bottle with Dan LeFevour but before that they were down for over 10 years and not by anyone considered a fallen power in the Marshall era the way that Miami is a fallen MAC power these days.

Bobcat Sustainability

2010 Taylor Price, 3rd Round (NE Patriots)
2009 Mike Mitchell, 2nd Round (Oakland Raiders)
2008 Landon Cohen, 7th Round (Detroit Lions) 
Back to Top
  
John C. Wanamaker
General User

Member Since: 1/2/2005
Post Count: 144

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Traditional MAC football powers
   Posted: 7/28/2010 11:13:12 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
What does "backwoods location" have to do with anything, Wes? Would you exclude Purdue and Penn State from some list of B11 powers soley on the basis of their backwoods locations?  There are other reason to exclude them, I'll admit, but I don't see that the fact that they are located in middle of nowhere is a legitimate criteria. 


Wes and OCF:  We've been down this road before, Layafette IN, has a population of over 56,000 people and a metro area of over 180,000 people it is not backwoods!  Their industrial base far outstrips anything ever seen in Southeastern and Southern Ohio!  A quick sample of the manufacturing that exist:  Alcoa, Wabash National (which is the world's largest manufacturer of Semi Trailers), Catapiller heavy equipment, and several well known automotive parts manufactures for American and International brands.  So, if anyone here thinks Purdue is in a bacwoods location than I am not sure there is a Classification for Athens, or SE Ohio.

"Half the money I spend on advertising is wasted; the trouble is I don't know which half."

Back to Top
  
OhioCatFan
General User



Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 136

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Traditional MAC football powers
   Posted: 7/29/2010 12:08:57 AM 
Have you actually been to Purdue?  How about Penn State?  The first is in a cornfield and the second is perhaps the dictionary definition of nowheresville.  All I'm saying is that to single out rural versus urban locations in this context is not too meaningful.  Given the right breaks you can build a major football most anywhere.  We haven't gotten the breaks, and we do have a multitude of problems right now, but I'm a little sick and tired of all this condescending rural bashing that's going on.  

Got Frank . . . Got Dreams!

"If you can dream it, you can do it!"
-- Jim Schaus, Ohio AD
Back to Top
  
colobobcat66
General User

Member Since: 9/1/2006
Location: Looking out my window at Pikes Peak, CO
Post Count: 42

Status: Online
  Message Not Read  RE: Traditional MAC football powers
   Posted: 7/29/2010 11:07:16 AM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
Have you actually been to Purdue?  How about Penn State?  The first is in a cornfield and the second is perhaps the dictionary definition of nowheresville.  All I'm saying is that to single out rural versus urban locations in this context is not too meaningful.  Given the right breaks you can build a major football most anywhere.  We haven't gotten the breaks, and we do have a multitude of problems right now, but I'm a little sick and tired of all this condescending rural bashing that's going on.  


I'm not exactly rural bashing per se, but for a rural setting college to have a large following, it seems to me that you need most or all of the following things going for you -a large alumni base-mostly within a 3-4 hour drive, high level competition, a winning tradition, (an "exciting" team ?), the state should not have two many D-1 schools for it's population (maybe 1 for every  1 1/2 - 2 million people or so (just a guess), good facilities, good financial support for the program from the alumni, easy access (Interstates and nearby commercial airport-Columbus is OK), good lodging options, etc. to name a few that come to mind.  Most of these issues are problems for Ohio, although some areas are improving.

The athletic world is changing dramatically because of the large amounts of money now available to the "haves" of the major conferences.  There is an ongoing debate on this site about how to become a football power.  Time will tell if Ohio will ever become a football power, but in any case the rural setting is not a plus in my opinion, but is a negative that can be overcome by other factors.
Back to Top
  
Monroe Slavin, CPA
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Encino, CA
Post Count: 206

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Traditional MAC football powers
   Posted: 7/29/2010 5:42:34 PM 
Penn State really is quite remote (well, I approached it driving in from Cleveland) though the town did seem about twice as big as Athens.  How do they get such big crowds to come in?  Must be the strong tradition.
Back to Top
  
John C. Wanamaker
General User

Member Since: 1/2/2005
Post Count: 144

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Traditional MAC football powers
   Posted: 7/30/2010 1:09:36 PM 
OCF, I have been to Purdue many times, and just because there are cornfield around it does not make it rural, by that account, Kansas City, St. Louis, Dallas, Omaha and about another 50 cities would be considered rural. We had this same silly arguement on this board a year ago when some of you called Akron (a top 50 US City) a small town.

As I stated if you want to call West Layafette a small town, Athens Ohio should not even be on the map, for goodness sakes our largest private employer is freaking WALMART! and you can count on one hand the number of non-service based businesses.

"Half the money I spend on advertising is wasted; the trouble is I don't know which half."

Back to Top
  
Monroe Slavin, CPA
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Encino, CA
Post Count: 206

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Traditional MAC football powers
   Posted: 7/30/2010 1:38:00 PM 
Let's be honest.  Or close to it.

Extensive, reality-based study shows that there's only one MAC traditional power.  No one gives a flick about any MAC school except one:  O-H-I-O.
Back to Top
  
oubobcatjohn
General User

Member Since: 1/1/2005
Post Count: 15

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Traditional MAC football powers
   Posted: 7/30/2010 7:18:34 PM 
Since 1997
MAC titles
Marshall 5
CMU       3
Toledo   2
Akron     1
Buffalo   1

Divsion titles
Marshall 6
Toledo    5
CMU       3
Miami     3
Ohio       2
WMU     2
BGSU  1
NIU      1
Akron   1
Ball St  1
Buffalo  1

Temple, UCF, EMU and Kent State none. 

Couple more division titles and a couple MAC titles would put us in that group.    
Back to Top
  
OhioCatFan
General User



Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 136

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Traditional MAC football powers
   Posted: 7/31/2010 4:20:52 PM 
John C. Wanamaker wrote:
OCF, I have been to Purdue many times, and just because there are cornfield around it does not make it rural, by that account, Kansas City, St. Louis, Dallas, Omaha and about another 50 cities would be considered rural. We had this same silly arguement on this board a year ago when some of you called Akron (a top 50 US City) a small town.

As I stated if you want to call West Layafette a small town, Athens Ohio should not even be on the map, for goodness sakes our largest private employer is freaking WALMART! and you can count on one hand the number of non-service based businesses.


Wrong. Our largest private employer is Diagnostic Hybrids.  Your're behind the time, my man!   DHI, now part of Quidel, is growing very fast.  The projection is that they will have over 1,000 employes within the next five years.  I believe the last count I heard was in the neighborhood of 300 employees.  These are good paying jobs, with good benefits, and paths for advancement. 

Got Frank . . . Got Dreams!

"If you can dream it, you can do it!"
-- Jim Schaus, Ohio AD
Back to Top
  
John C. Wanamaker
General User

Member Since: 1/2/2005
Post Count: 144

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Traditional MAC football powers
   Posted: 8/1/2010 12:17:19 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
John C. Wanamaker wrote:
OCF, I have been to Purdue many times, and just because there are cornfield around it does not make it rural, by that account, Kansas City, St. Louis, Dallas, Omaha and about another 50 cities would be considered rural. We had this same silly arguement on this board a year ago when some of you called Akron (a top 50 US City) a small town.

As I stated if you want to call West Layafette a small town, Athens Ohio should not even be on the map, for goodness sakes our largest private employer is freaking WALMART! and you can count on one hand the number of non-service based businesses.


Wrong. Our largest private employer is Diagnostic Hybrids.  Your're behind the time, my man!   DHI, now part of Quidel, is growing very fast.  The projection is that they will have over 1,000 employes within the next five years.  I believe the last count I heard was in the neighborhood of 300 employees.  These are good paying jobs, with good benefits, and paths for advancement. 


What are you smoking?????  What they will have in 5 years is NOT the present, Wal-Mart is still the #1 private employer in the city of Athens.  Wal-Mart averages around 390 employees at any one time. 

"Half the money I spend on advertising is wasted; the trouble is I don't know which half."

Back to Top
  
OhioCatFan
General User



Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 136

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Traditional MAC football powers
   Posted: 8/1/2010 12:46:35 PM 
John C. Wanamaker wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
John C. Wanamaker wrote:
OCF, I have been to Purdue many times, and just because there are cornfield around it does not make it rural, by that account, Kansas City, St. Louis, Dallas, Omaha and about another 50 cities would be considered rural. We had this same silly arguement on this board a year ago when some of you called Akron (a top 50 US City) a small town.

As I stated if you want to call West Layafette a small town, Athens Ohio should not even be on the map, for goodness sakes our largest private employer is freaking WALMART! and you can count on one hand the number of non-service based businesses.


Wrong. Our largest private employer is Diagnostic Hybrids.  Your're behind the time, my man!   DHI, now part of Quidel, is growing very fast.  The projection is that they will have over 1,000 employes within the next five years.  I believe the last count I heard was in the neighborhood of 300 employees.  These are good paying jobs, with good benefits, and paths for advancement. 


What are you smoking?????  What they will have in 5 years is NOT the present, Wal-Mart is still the #1 private employer in the city of Athens.  Wal-Mart averages around 390 employees at any one time. 


We're talking FTE here, as you should have known.  Walmart comes nowhere near DHI in FTE employees.  Also, the total DHI payroll is a quantum leap ahead of Walmart.   

Got Frank . . . Got Dreams!

"If you can dream it, you can do it!"
-- Jim Schaus, Ohio AD
Back to Top
  
OrlandoCat
General User

Member Since: 3/15/2005
Post Count: 24

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Traditional MAC football powers
   Posted: 8/1/2010 3:08:43 PM 
So apparently the answer to my question was Wal-mart.
Back to Top
  
Jughead
General User



Member Since: 7/6/2010
Location: Chillicothe, OH
Post Count: 36

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Traditional MAC football powers
   Posted: 8/1/2010 4:38:01 PM 
OrlandoCat wrote:
So apparently the answer to my question was Wal-mart.

LOL

Wal-mart is top MAC football power?  I figured that they would be in a bigger conference.

Rooting for Akron is like cheering on the Taliban.
Back to Top
  
Maryland Bobcat
General User



Member Since: 12/28/2004
Location: Baltimore, MD
Post Count: 10

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Traditional MAC football powers
   Posted: 8/2/2010 3:29:09 PM 
I guess if the discussion were "recent MAC football powers" I would tend to agree. The subject is kind of vague, but I take it to mean over the life of the conference which programs traditionally have been competetive. Marshall was dominant, but only for a short period. We were one of the better teams when we had Grobe, and have been highly competetive under Solich, but you can't discount the 25+ years between the late 60's and the Grobe era.
Back to Top
  
John C. Wanamaker
General User

Member Since: 1/2/2005
Post Count: 144

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Traditional MAC football powers
   Posted: 8/2/2010 3:40:03 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
John C. Wanamaker wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
John C. Wanamaker wrote:
OCF, I have been to Purdue many times, and just because there are cornfield around it does not make it rural, by that account, Kansas City, St. Louis, Dallas, Omaha and about another 50 cities would be considered rural. We had this same silly arguement on this board a year ago when some of you called Akron (a top 50 US City) a small town.

As I stated if you want to call West Layafette a small town, Athens Ohio should not even be on the map, for goodness sakes our largest private employer is freaking WALMART! and you can count on one hand the number of non-service based businesses.


Wrong. Our largest private employer is Diagnostic Hybrids.  Your're behind the time, my man!   DHI, now part of Quidel, is growing very fast.  The projection is that they will have over 1,000 employes within the next five years.  I believe the last count I heard was in the neighborhood of 300 employees.  These are good paying jobs, with good benefits, and paths for advancement. 


What are you smoking?????  What they will have in 5 years is NOT the present, Wal-Mart is still the #1 private employer in the city of Athens.  Wal-Mart averages around 390 employees at any one time. 


We're talking FTE here, as you should have known.  Walmart comes nowhere near DHI in FTE employees.  Also, the total DHI payroll is a quantum leap ahead of Walmart.   


I never said who had the better jobs, the question/comment was largest employer and that my dear sir is Walmart

"Half the money I spend on advertising is wasted; the trouble is I don't know which half."

Back to Top
  
Casper71
General User

Member Since: 12/1/2006
Post Count: 18

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Traditional MAC football powers
   Posted: 8/2/2010 4:30:44 PM 
The problem with the MAC is that there has never been a traditional power like you've had in most conferences (just check out the Top 20 from 1965 and 2010) so the Conference never gets a consistent winner with consistent noteriety...USC and UCLA, Nebraska in the PAC 10, and Ok, Texin the Big 8, Fla and Ala in the SEC, Mich and the OSU, in the Big 10,etc.  So, there is no "top" program that has bought the others up in the ranks.  Instead, basically ALL the institutions recruit primarilly the SAME players and can't get enough of them consistently to be a traditional power.  Only when a school has been able to get a difference maker have they been a power.  It could have been a Cleve Bryant for Ohio, Chuck Ealey for Toledo, Sherman Smith or Big Ben for Miami, Pennington and Leftwich for Marshall, Davis for Ball St. etc. 

To be honest, maybe that's good from a competitve standpoint but it has not moved the MAC forward competitively for 45 years!
Back to Top
  
OhioCatFan
General User



Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 136

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Traditional MAC football powers
   Posted: 8/2/2010 4:53:17 PM 
John C. Wanamaker wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
John C. Wanamaker wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
John C. Wanamaker wrote:
OCF, I have been to Purdue many times, and just because there are cornfield around it does not make it rural, by that account, Kansas City, St. Louis, Dallas, Omaha and about another 50 cities would be considered rural. We had this same silly arguement on this board a year ago when some of you called Akron (a top 50 US City) a small town.

As I stated if you want to call West Layafette a small town, Athens Ohio should not even be on the map, for goodness sakes our largest private employer is freaking WALMART! and you can count on one hand the number of non-service based businesses.


Wrong. Our largest private employer is Diagnostic Hybrids.  Your're behind the time, my man!   DHI, now part of Quidel, is growing very fast.  The projection is that they will have over 1,000 employes within the next five years.  I believe the last count I heard was in the neighborhood of 300 employees.  These are good paying jobs, with good benefits, and paths for advancement. 


What are you smoking?????  What they will have in 5 years is NOT the present, Wal-Mart is still the #1 private employer in the city of Athens.  Wal-Mart averages around 390 employees at any one time. 


We're talking FTE here, as you should have known.  Walmart comes nowhere near DHI in FTE employees.  Also, the total DHI payroll is a quantum leap ahead of Walmart.   


I never said who had the better jobs, the question/comment was largest employer and that my dear sir is Walmart
 

No, you don't seem to understand plain English, my dear fellow.  DHI has more FTE employees than Walmart and also has a much larger total payroll.  And, let's not forget that DHI is a corporate sponsor of Ohio athletics!  

Last Edited: 8/2/2010 5:04:52 PM by OhioCatFan

Got Frank . . . Got Dreams!

"If you can dream it, you can do it!"
-- Jim Schaus, Ohio AD
Back to Top
  
Showing Replies:  1 - 25  of 28 Posts
Jump to Page:  1 | 2    Next >
View Other 'Ohio Football' Topics
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             


WHO'S ONLINE
There are 48 Active Visitors on BobcatAttack.com
39 Guests
9 Registered Users:
 TheRealMikeDrake, GoCatsGo, BBall Attack, sargentfan, Deciduous Forest Cat, ohio9704, Ted Thompson, Mike Coleman, colobobcat66
There are no other users
looking at this page.

Copyright ©2010 BobcatAttack.com. All rights reserved.  |  Privacy Policy  |  Terms of Use