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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Jaaron Simmons to Michigan (NT)
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Kevin Finnegan
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Posted: 4/26/2017 1:17 PM
I don't see why a player who graduates should have to sit out a year. They fulfilled their contract to a university, they graduated. However, coaches who break their contract are able to coach a different team the following year. I wouldn't support the player having to sit out until the NCAA forces the same of coaches who break an existing contract.
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Posted: 4/26/2017 1:20 PM
FearLeon wrote:expand_more
He made too many unforced dribble drives in the paint, not to mention the unforgettable way our season ended.
Careful Cbus....folks get snowflake sensitive when you bring up #2 and his final possession in an OHIO uniform.
What does it mean to get "snowflake sensitive" and how does that apply here?

I'm eager to know.
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Posted: 4/26/2017 1:43 PM
Love that the poster here who is clearly the most upset and having obvious difficulty handling his disappointment in a rational manner is accusing others of being over-sensitive.
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Posted: 4/26/2017 5:50 PM
Players dont actually play for their University they play for the COACHES. Same as an engineering student would want the best professor in the best engineering program. Get over it Simmons did what was best for him welcome to American Capitalism everyone wishes they had options like Simmons. Play in the MAC or Big Ten Michigan?? Does anyone really think NBA scouts and GMs said "Jaaron stay at Ohio thats best" no.
Last Edited: 4/26/2017 5:52:08 PM by Bobcatzblitz
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Posted: 4/26/2017 6:57 PM
We all know transferring is an epidemic in college hoops and losing JS is a bummer, but it got me thinking-

- when was the last time we had a starter transfer out? -

Then I remembered Ryan Taylor. But before THAT, when? I think it says a lot about our program that this is such a rare event for us when it is common place at so many other programs.
MY STATE. MY TEAM.
Last Edited: 4/26/2017 6:58:43 PM by perimeterpost
cbus cat fan
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Posted: 4/26/2017 8:15 PM
I don't understand those who think that John Beilein is somehow a better coach than Saul Phillips, or that playing at Michigan where Jaaron won't be the star is better than playing at Ohio where he could be the star. As I stated in my previous post, I am not happy about this, but not angry either. I am sure this doesn't sit well with everyone on the team.

However, sometimes the unexpected happens as it did at Dayton through some very tragic and sad circumstances when some players had to step up. No one would have guessed Dayton would make a miraculous tournament run. I hope Jaaron someday makes an NBA roster and I wish him well at Michigan. If I were a betting man, I would put my money on DJ making an NBA roster before Jaaron, due to the numerous dribbling turnovers (most notably in the lane) that far surpassed those made by DJ. Let's hope that as in the Flyers example I cited, our players step up and lead us to a tournament run come this March and the following March as well.
Last Edited: 4/26/2017 8:16:40 PM by cbus cat fan
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Posted: 4/26/2017 8:26 PM
Why are people hung up on that being the big fish in the little pond is better? These guys and gals are competitors they want to compete against the best. No player ever said I want to play in the CBA because these fans are better and I like the cities. Players want the challenge.
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Posted: 4/26/2017 8:57 PM
cbus cat fan wrote:expand_more
I don't understand those who think that John Beilein is somehow a better coach than Saul Phillips, or that playing at Michigan where Jaaron won't be the star is better than playing at Ohio where he could be the star. As I stated in my previous post, I am not happy about this, but not angry either. I am sure this doesn't sit well with everyone on the team.

However, sometimes the unexpected happens as it did at Dayton through some very tragic and sad circumstances when some players had to step up. No one would have guessed Dayton would make a miraculous tournament run. I hope Jaaron someday makes an NBA roster and I wish him well at Michigan. If I were a betting man, I would put my money on DJ making an NBA roster before Jaaron, due to the numerous dribbling turnovers (most notably in the lane) that far surpassed those made by DJ. Let's hope that as in the Flyers example I cited, our players step up and lead us to a tournament run come this March and the following March as well.
So I'm a singer in a rock and roll band. Do I want to play in Madison or Madison Square Garden?
cbus cat fan
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Posted: 4/26/2017 9:40 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
[QUOTE=cbus cat fan] I don't understand those who think that John Beilein is somehow a better coach than Saul Phillips, or that playing at Michigan where Jaaron won't be the star is better than playing at Ohio where he could be the star. As I stated in my previous post, I am not happy about this, but not angry either. I am sure this doesn't sit well with everyone on the team.

However, sometimes the unexpected happens as it did at Dayton through some very tragic and sad circumstances when some players had to step up. No one would have guessed Dayton would make a miraculous tournament run. I hope Jaaron someday makes an NBA roster and I wish him well at Michigan. If I were a betting man, I would put my money on DJ making an NBA roster before Jaaron, due to the numerous dribbling turnovers (most notably in the lane) that far surpassed those made by DJ. Let's hope that as in the Flyers example I cited, our players step up and lead us to a tournament run come this March and the following March as well.
Alan Swank "So I'm a singer in a rock and roll band. Do I want to play in Madison or Madison Square Garden?"


Actually if you are on tour, your would like to play both, unless your Bruce Springsteen, though I am sure the Boss has played Madison too. Following your logic should Bobcat fans cheer for the Wolverines should their job take them there, or still cheer for old Ohio?

As I stated, I wish Jaaron well and hope he makes it to the NBA. However, if one truly wants to get analytical, I still think his best chance would be at Ohio where his playing time and stature would be higher than just another guard who played at Michigan.

Editors Note--My apologies Alan, it seems something weird happened with the quotes on the post, I tried to fix it, but I think everyone should be able to see what Alan said and what I said.
Last Edited: 4/26/2017 9:47:01 PM by cbus cat fan
allen
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Posted: 4/26/2017 10:14 PM
Bobcatzblitz wrote:expand_more
Players dont actually play for their University they play for the COACHES. Same as an engineering student would want the best professor in the best engineering program. Get over it Simmons did what was best for him welcome to American Capitalism everyone wishes they had options like Simmons. Play in the MAC or Big Ten Michigan?? Does anyone really think NBA scouts and GMs said "Jaaron stay at Ohio thats best" no.
I am glad that Mo said no to the big East and that Teyvion Kirk said no to the SEC. Mo is in the NBA and I hope Kirk follows. See these no brainer equations that you come up with are not factual. A kid should go where he can shine, Jaaron overpenetrates, if he does that too much at Michigan, he may get benched. He is a streaky shooter, two bad games and the fans will be yelling for Simpson. Ndour turned down the Big East because he wanted to show what he could do, he had two years to prove himself and Ohio gave him the platform. I am glad Javon Hagan said no to Purdue.
Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Posted: 4/27/2017 9:12 AM
cbus cat fan wrote:expand_more
I don't understand those who think that John Beilein is somehow a better coach than Saul Phillips, or that playing at Michigan where Jaaron won't be the star is better than playing at Ohio where he could be the star. As I stated in my previous post, I am not happy about this, but not angry either. I am sure this doesn't sit well with everyone on the team.

However, sometimes the unexpected happens as it did at Dayton through some very tragic and sad circumstances when some players had to step up. No one would have guessed Dayton would make a miraculous tournament run. I hope Jaaron someday makes an NBA roster and I wish him well at Michigan. If I were a betting man, I would put my money on DJ making an NBA roster before Jaaron, due to the numerous dribbling turnovers (most notably in the lane) that far surpassed those made by DJ. Let's hope that as in the Flyers example I cited, our players step up and lead us to a tournament run come this March and the following March as well.
Your argument's based on an assumption that could well prove false. There's no certainty that Jaaron's stature will be larger at OU than at Michigan. How many MAC Player of the Year guys have been drafted? Fewer than the number of guys that have been drafted from Michigan alone in the last few years. Burke, LaVert, Stauskus, Hardaway, Robinson, etc.

The NBA doesn't draft players because of stature. They want to see how they stack up against NBA caliber players/athletes, and to make that possible Simmons looked at places like Michigan and Kansas, and presumably Europe.

Who is the best PG in the MAC next year? Who are NBA scouts watching game in game out?
cbus cat fan
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Posted: 4/27/2017 9:40 AM
Your assumption seems to be based on the premise that Jaaron is just that good that he needs power conference competition in order for him to be challenged. He seemed plenty challenged this year in the MAC and had far more turnovers than DJ did a few years back. If a poll were taken on this board of who would you rather have running the offence DJ or Jaaron, I think we know DJ would win and probably handily.

Again, I hope Jaaron does well and makes an NBA roster. However, I think there is a better chance he does not excel in Ann Arbor the way he could in Athens.
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Posted: 4/27/2017 9:56 AM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
Why are people hung up on that being the big fish in the little pond is better? These guys and gals are competitors they want to compete against the best. No player ever said I want to play in the CBA because these fans are better and I like the cities. Players want the challenge.
Guys make choices for the Benjamins. NBA money vs CBA money.

Same applies here. Jaaron will be well paid at Michigan. Is he improving his chances at the NBA? not one bit.
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Posted: 4/27/2017 11:03 AM
cbus cat fan wrote:expand_more
Your assumption seems to be based on the premise that Jaaron is just that good that he needs power conference competition in order for him to be challenged. He seemed plenty challenged this year in the MAC and had far more turnovers than DJ did a few years back. If a poll were taken on this board of who would you rather have running the offence DJ or Jaaron, I think we know DJ would win and probably handily.

Again, I hope Jaaron does well and makes an NBA roster. However, I think there is a better chance he does not excel in Ann Arbor the way he could in Athens.
People keep bringing up DJ Cooper, without even realizing the relevance. DJ Cooper didn't get drafted. He hasn't signed so much as a 10 day contract in the NBA. So why would Jaaron follow Cooper's path?

To be abundantly clear: I don't think Jaaron is an NBA player. I've said that flatly 3 times now.

But I also think there's nothing at all to be gained by sticking around in the MAC. If his goal is the be in the NBA, he needs to prove himself against a better caliber of competition night in and night out. There are many leagues in the world that are better than the MAC, and I'm sure Jaaron thought through his options thoroughly. The jump he's making is basically the equivalent of a minor league baseball players moving from Single A to AA. He's still a long ways away from the NBA, but he's put up numbers consistently in A ball and now needs to prove he can produce at the next level up before he'll so much as get a sniff of the big leagues.

This isn't complicated at all. He wanted to play against a higher caliber of player to see how he stacks up as a pro prospect. Does that mean he's "too good for the MAC"? No. It means he's moving on with his life and trying to accomplish his dream of playing in the NBA, regardless of the odds.
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Posted: 4/27/2017 11:13 AM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
Your assumption seems to be based on the premise that Jaaron is just that good that he needs power conference competition in order for him to be challenged. He seemed plenty challenged this year in the MAC and had far more turnovers than DJ did a few years back. If a poll were taken on this board of who would you rather have running the offence DJ or Jaaron, I think we know DJ would win and probably handily.

Again, I hope Jaaron does well and makes an NBA roster. However, I think there is a better chance he does not excel in Ann Arbor the way he could in Athens.
People keep bringing up DJ Cooper, without even realizing the relevance. DJ Cooper didn't get drafted. He hasn't signed so much as a 10 day contract in the NBA. So why would Jaaron follow Cooper's path?

To be abundantly clear: I don't think Jaaron is an NBA player. I've said that flatly 3 times now.

But I also think there's nothing at all to be gained by sticking around in the MAC. If his goal is the be in the NBA, he needs to prove himself against a better caliber of competition night in and night out. There are many leagues in the world that are better than the MAC, and I'm sure Jaaron thought through his options thoroughly. The jump he's making is basically the equivalent of a minor league baseball players moving from Single A to AA. He's still a long ways away from the NBA, but he's put up numbers consistently in A ball and now needs to prove he can produce at the next level up before he'll so much as get a sniff of the big leagues.

This isn't complicated at all. He wanted to play against a higher caliber of player to see how he stacks up as a pro prospect. Does that mean he's "too good for the MAC"? No. It means he's moving on with his life and trying to accomplish his dream of playing in the NBA, regardless of the odds.
Great analogy - certainly better than my MSG attempt.
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Posted: 4/27/2017 12:02 PM
I consider myself fairly level-headed, but I still think this is a total garbage move by Jaaron. Let me put it this way - I sure hope all the remaining players in the locker room are pissed about this. If they're pissed, it means they take pride in their team being a team, they take pride in their university, and they believe they can accomplish all their goals in the place that was willing to give them their big break in the first place. If they just think JS is doing what is best for him, then we have a roster full of kids who view their time at Ohio as nothing but a stepping stone.

To put it another way...there is absolutely no way I could ever do this.

Meeting with UD one hour after recruiting opened? He was planning this for months if not years. I fully believe as he wore the green & white, he was secretly conspiring for his next step. How can that not piss you off?

All that aside, I also agree with those saying this is a dumb move for his career after college. Any added notoriety for playing in the Big Ten could just as easily be offset with a disappointing amount of playing time or difficulty meshing with a new system so quickly. I understand that he is confident in his abilities so the downsides don't enter the decision making much.

Michigan had 2 chances to get JS and they chose not to. What ever happened to be loyal to the team that gave you a chance while simultaneously taking pride in showing all those who didn't want you that you don't need them?

This is the world we live in now...I see it with 10 year old travel baseball. I've seen countless players leave their community team because they (their parents) feel they're too good for them, and many times it is a player that isn't even one of the best. So they drive their kid 45 minutes for practices to a random team in which they know no one, constantly searching for the "right fit." I've seen kids play with 3 different teams in 3 years. Just shut up and make the most of the situation you chose.
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Posted: 4/27/2017 12:21 PM
Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
Meeting with UD one hour after recruiting opened? He was planning this for months if not years. I fully believe as he wore the green & white, he was secretly conspiring for his next step. How can that not piss you off?
I'd argue that if there's a single student on campus in Athens who isn't "conspiring" about their next step, they've misunderstood the purpose of college.
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Posted: 4/27/2017 12:42 PM
That is not even remotely comparable and you know it.
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Posted: 4/27/2017 12:57 PM
Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
That is not even remotely comparable and you know it.
Why isn't it? What's the purpose of a college education? One of them, certainly, is to help position you to achieve professional goals.

Why would we expect a different level of commitment from a student athlete than from any other scholarship student? Is it some crisis in commitment if a Scripps graduate opts to head to Columbia for a PhD?

I honestly don't understand why, rationally, this is any different.
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Posted: 4/27/2017 1:10 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
That is not even remotely comparable and you know it.
Why isn't it? What's the purpose of a college education? One of them, certainly, is to help position you to achieve professional goals.

Why would we expect a different level of commitment from a student athlete than from any other scholarship student? Is it some crisis in commitment if a Scripps graduate opts to head to Columbia for a PhD?

I honestly don't understand why, rationally, this is any different.
It isn't any different at all and can we get over this "gave him a chance or break" bs. Face it, we might not be as good next year and that troubles some people so they look for excuses and people to blame. He graduated. Isn't that what college is all about - getting that degree that serves as a certificate of preparation for the next stage in life?
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Posted: 4/27/2017 1:20 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
That is not even remotely comparable and you know it.
Why isn't it? What's the purpose of a college education? One of them, certainly, is to help position you to achieve professional goals.

Why would we expect a different level of commitment from a student athlete than from any other scholarship student? Is it some crisis in commitment if a Scripps graduate opts to head to Columbia for a PhD?

I honestly don't understand why, rationally, this is any different.
First of all, a student is an individual entity. An athlete is part of a team. If you try to equate the value of a PG to his team to the value of a Journalist to his academic program, I don't think you are a person that can be reasoned with.

Second, why do you assume I wouldn't take issue with the principle of an academic scholarship recipient bolting on his school? If said student was treated well and the program has remained the clean and successful program that he/she committed to originally, but suddenly felt this school wasn't good enough for him so he went to a supposedly more illustrious school that wouldn't let him in the first time around, I absolutely would call that a garbage move as well. But the difference is no one cares, because he is really only affecting himself. The classmates and program overall is largely unaffected by it, and of course there is no fan base following and supporting him either. The fact that you very rarely see this in the academic world but see it constantly in the athletic world should show you how far you are stretching with this.

Lastly, the different degrees has absolutely zero to do with this, it is 100% basketball motivated. Equating this to an undergrad heading elsewhere for grad school is pointless. To put it another way, if there was no such thing as the sit-out-a-year-to-transfer rule, Simmons would have been gone last off-season, not this one. He just had to wait to open up this loophole. If you disagree and think Jaaron can't wait to get his amazing graduate degree from Michigan, which he carefully chose without much consideration to basketball...then I guess we'll just have to disagree.

Let's also not skip over that your original comment was that anyone in college is conspiring for their next step...it was only in the followup rebuttal that you turned it into an analogy about academic scholarships.
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Posted: 4/27/2017 1:51 PM
Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
That is not even remotely comparable and you know it.
Why isn't it? What's the purpose of a college education? One of them, certainly, is to help position you to achieve professional goals.

Why would we expect a different level of commitment from a student athlete than from any other scholarship student? Is it some crisis in commitment if a Scripps graduate opts to head to Columbia for a PhD?

I honestly don't understand why, rationally, this is any different.
First of all, a student is an individual entity. An athlete is part of a team. If you try to equate the value of a PG to his team to the value of a Journalist to his academic program, I don't think you are a person that can be reasoned with.

Second, why do you assume I wouldn't take issue with the principle of an academic scholarship recipient bolting on his school? If said student was treated well and the program has remained the clean and successful program that he/she committed to originally, but suddenly felt this school wasn't good enough for him so he went to a supposedly more illustrious school that wouldn't let him in the first time around, I absolutely would call that a garbage move as well. But the difference is no one cares, because he is really only affecting himself. The classmates and program overall is largely unaffected by it, and of course there is no fan base following and supporting him either. The fact that you very rarely see this in the academic world but see it constantly in the athletic world should show you how far you are stretching with this.

Lastly, the different degrees has absolutely zero to do with this, it is 100% basketball motivated. Equating this to an undergrad heading elsewhere for grad school is pointless. To put it another way, if there was no such thing as the sit-out-a-year-to-transfer rule, Simmons would have been gone last off-season, not this one. He just had to wait to open up this loophole. If you disagree and think Jaaron can't wait to get his amazing graduate degree from Michigan, which he carefully chose without much consideration to basketball...then I guess we'll just have to disagree.

Let's also not skip over that your original comment was that anyone in college is conspiring for their next step...it was only in the followup rebuttal that you turned it into an analogy about academic scholarships.
This is an undergrad heading elsewhere for grad school. That is not a comparison or an attempt to equate two different things. That is a description of what has happened.

Jaaron Simmons just graduated from OU. He made a decision about how best to pursue his chosen profession -- which happens to be basketball -- and decided to exercise the right he earned to attend graduate school elsewhere because he felt that Michigan offered him a better path to achieve his post-grad goals. This isn't complicated. Notions of team and fanbases have nothing to do with it, outside of the emotions they inspire. But once you look past those emotions, what you have is recent graduate who chose to go to grad school elsewhere because he felt it was the better choice for his longterm professional ambitions.
Last Edited: 4/27/2017 1:57:01 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Posted: 4/27/2017 2:14 PM
Well said Shame.

I also wonder how those that feel Simmons leaving is an injustice also feel about college athletes being paid. If you are one that feels they are paid because they get a free education then you must acknowledge that Simmons fulfilled that "contract" and should now be free to move on.
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Posted: 4/27/2017 2:18 PM
Why hasn't Michigan announced anything and Jaaron's Twitter still says Ohio? Waiting on final grades?

Also, if his heart isn't in Athens, then we don't need him. I'd rather have 12 Gavin Block's on a team. Hope this squad is ready to put in some serious work in this summer. Get agitated, Bobcats!

I'll tell ya where we'll go. Someplace warm. A place where the beer flows like wine. Where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano. I'm talkin' bout a little place called... ATHENS.

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Posted: 4/27/2017 3:49 PM
cc-cat wrote:expand_more
Well said Shame.

I also wonder how those that feel Simmons leaving is an injustice also feel about college athletes being paid. If you are one that feels they are paid because they get a free education then you must acknowledge that Simmons fulfilled that "contract" and should now be free to move on.
+1

Too many people look at sports as a charity. Well guess what, that was maybe 50 years ago where it was in the spirit of amateurism. This is a business people and if the kid served his obligation by graduating (which he is going to do in the next 48 hours) then I cannot fault him for leaving.

Not only that, if a kid had a chance to go to Harvard law to increase his/her chances of becoming a key politician would you tell him/her no even if he/her initially started at say, Ohio State? So what's the problem with Jaaron going to Michigan to increase his chances of making the league. It is insanely stupid how people think the kid can't hack it all of a sudden because he's leaving. All those negatives coming out of the cobwebs in the last 72 hours are hysterical. If he wanted to come back, you all would be dancing on rooftops for his return and you know it. And yes, some of you are going to tell me otherwise, of those how did you treat LeBron when he came back? Exactly.

So with that, Jaaron is a fool not to take advantage of going to Michigan (despite my hatred for them) and A. Attempt to get a graduate degree from there and B. To make it to the next level. To do what he does against MAC competition, whoop-dee-doo. If he does that against Big Ten competition=$$$. For those who think otherwise need to wake up and smell the coffee, because perception and reality here aren't far off and if you think this kid could have done that from Athens by playing the bigger boys, again delusional. So congrats to Jaaron, and hopefully he represents what transfers can gain from coming here. And yes, this could potentially be a positive spin if you embrace transfers full-bore and make it a roster slot or 2 in the program. Otherwise, good riddance to this topic, let's get focusing on 2018.
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