Was the official moving his arm or hand before the call? We were there and don't feel there was any warning that he was even counting.

Saw quite a bit of OHIO green there. Not a packed house, for sure.

As I stated on another thread, when I coached high school basketball the officials told us the 10 second call was the easiest to make. The official has to count and then has to call 10 seconds when the player is in the back court. Otherwise, it will be a mystery if the official was either counting or somehow lost his count. Jaaron's mistake was to look as if he was in a daze walking up the back court.

It seems the trance some of Jaaron's teammates was in seemed to be contagious. We played well and seemed in the driver's seat for 30 minutes. Unfortunately, from about the 11:00 minute mark in the second half until 1:00 remaining in the game, we appeared to be asleep at the wheel.

Maybe some one else knows, because I have no idea if MAC officials get film session updates through the course of a season. I know they get graded by each staff after the game, but how that gets transmitted to the officials themselves is a mystery to me.

I think if you can get to the replay on espn3 and watch the clock you might see that 11 secs actually passed. I think the ref actually gave him the benefit of an extra sec. but that is just what I thought I saw live.

I was impressed by the amount of Green, especially compared to the dozen or so times we have made it up there. Got to sit with and see many old friends and catch up . Mike Johnson is always a joy to talk to, Eagle66 (james ) ever welcoming and catching up with parents of current team members always fun.....and of course seeing the kid is always the best....even though the result up there always seems to be a bit of a back breaker and mixing with the locals always a joy. The 70 year old that takes the time to stand 10 inches in the front of you, unbutton his flannel and hold his t shirt saying "Kent State" in front widely to demonstrate like a player would after a win is asking to get punched. Cooler heads prevail and a simple "stupid Mfer, don't you know winners do it humbly and losers Gloat?" did the trick as his old wife pushed him forward apologizing profusely. That is a fanbase that never disappoints in crassness.

Good job Cat Fans getting there and supporting. Ray's Place and their beer selections are grand as is the food but the round trip from Muncie to Kent and home seems to get a bit longer each time.

Thanks for kind words, Tom. Much enjoyed getting game commentary from someone who knows the game's nuances.

Also enjoyed sitting next to Drew Crabtree's parents. When I asked if he was their only child, I learned that they lost their 11-year-old daughter to cancer.

Borna, the clock did stop at 19 but I did go back and watch the replay in slomo. When the shot clock hit 20 he had one foot and the ball was across (in the air, the dribble had not hit the ground yet). I'll be honest I don't know the rule about whether you have to have your entire body across or just part of it but there definitely was no benefit of the doubt. He didn't count with his arm like you see a lot of refs do but with the shot clock there I don't see why he would need to. But even so that was all on Jaaron. He looked shocked that the clock was even close to the ten count.

Thanks Van. I was sitting there looking at the clock and mid court and mouthing under my breath "GTF Across the line" as there had been several times that we were walking it up slower than I liked.... Glad you could go back and see. It should not have been close....and puts creating a shot and running an offense in a bad spot within the constraint of the shot clock that much more difficult. Simple math. At times it makes AB's dribbling the air out of the ball look aggressive. ATTACK! for gosh sake. GIve your guys time to read and react and you a chance to find the best pass. I love JS and his ability to dissect a defense and thread the needle.... but spacing, movement off the ball, ball movement and breaking the D down are better when you are in attack mode...

sounds like the team had the same experience I did with those local fans. Glad Saul, Jaaron and the team knows how to walk away. We need everyone on board down the stretch

http://www.athensmessenger.com/sports/ohiouniversity/from...

I watched it and timed it today with a stop watch - 10:47 seconds. Everything depends on when you start the clock. I did it when we first touched the ball after the missed shot. Either way and agree with a previous post that it shouldn't have even been close.

Officials Forum I follow discussed 10 sec rule at length over time and situationally. THere is good discussion and officials labor over that but we had walked the ball up a couple of times prior that were flirting with it.... this was unguarded and no pressure on ball handler

From the threads....officials chatter.

" D1 officials tend to watch the shot clock to determine the backcourt counts...

(just to cover myself and avoid an argument based on semantics...note I said "D1 officials tend to"...I did not say ALL or MOST)...I just can't deal w/ a silly discussion forum debate on Friday...'


Originally Posted
Provided the ball is far from the ground and any player. I'd prefer to "miss" a call when the ball gains FC status at 10.1 seconds than calling a violation at 9.99 seconds, (that is, 8.1 and 7.99 in FIBA): our count cannot be accurate to tenths of a second. It's just like for traveling: we don't call it unless we are sure the player traveled.

Ciao
Sometimes two events happen so very close together that it is very difficult to determine which happened first. On those plays, I tend to lean towards the no violation or no foul as well.

Reply


Why penalize the defense for your lack of confidence in your ability to count?
That's not lack of confidence. It's a fact that a count by an official cannot be accurate to the tenth of a second, since even the best trained official has to follow the play, with a pressing defence and maybe some change of rhythm. So I'd allow some "uncertainty" when the call would be very close. It's easier to count accurately when still, like during a throw-in, than when moving.

A shot clock device could be useful in a situation like the OP's one. In FIBA the two counts start at the same time and with a lob pass there's time to look at the shot clock (and maybe realize that it differs from the official's count due to an error of the operator). FIBA rules point out that the 8 second count is made by the official, but nothing prevents the official to seek aid from the device, if there is the possibility. I wouldn't look at the device when a pressed player is crossing the division line, but during a lob pass it's a different thing.

I think mental fatigue sets in playing the large minutes as Simmons does. Huge mental error for a two year starter and point guard. Sloppy passes and turnovers late. Simmons needs to play better if we have any chance come March. We will go as far as Simmons takes us. He plays well we have a chance, if he doesn't then its real tough for a team undersized and not much depth in the front court.

Anyone able to "release" this story for non-subscribers to the Messenger? I saw some skirmish after the game but didn't know what happened.

I am not much on the time as an excuse because there have been some pretty great Iron Men....including DJ over the years I have been watching ball. Simmons is built sturdy and is tough mentally so I am not inclined to lean toward this especially since we are not in a position where he is getting beat up by a Villanova or similar or in a league where everyone is up and down every night out

it is interesting % wise that Jaaron is top 20 this year. This list is full of thick and sturdy guys save for a few.

1 Matt Mobley St. Bonaventure 6-3 185 Jr 95.4
2 Sa'eed Nelson American 6-1 175 Fr 94.2
3 Braylon Rayson Central Michigan 5-9 190 Sr 93.2
4 Marcus Keene Central Michigan 5-9 175 Jr 92.2
5 Nick Coppola Louisiana Monroe 5-11 195 Sr 92.1
6 Joe Rahon Saint Mary's 6-2 195 Sr 92.1
7 Yettra Specks Jackson St. 5-10 171 Sr 91.9
8 Jaylon Brown Evansville 6-0 185 Sr 91.7
9 Andrew White Syracuse 6-7 210 Sr 91.5
10 Rodney Purvis Connecticut 6-4 205 Sr 91.1
11 TJ Williams Northeastern 6-3 205 Sr 91.0
12 Darrion Allen Longwood 6-2 176 Sr 91.0
13 Jaleen Smith New Hampshire 6-4 205 Sr 91.0
14 Jared Brownridge Santa Clara 6-3 200 Sr 91.0
15 Dominic Artis UTEP 6-3 190 Sr 90.7
16 Peyton Aldridge Davidson 6-8 225 Jr 90.5
17 Quinton Hooker North Dakota 6-0 205 Sr 90.4
18 Dajuan Graf North Carolina Central 6-0 185 Sr 90.1
19 Jaaron Simmons Ohio 6-1 184 Jr 90.1
20 Devin Morgan Delaware St. 5-10 180 So 90.0

the traveling is interesting... they missed three obvious foot shuffles by Kent in the first half, especially considering the added emphasis this year.

Re: the Kent fans...it's a special breed up there, or so it seems. I chuckled, and rewound the DVR to point out a couple students wearing hoodies that said "Straight Outta Kent" in the same design as straight outta Compton. I'm not sure I'd be overly proud of how that might be interpreted. I'm sure there's something that says something similar from somewhere selling Ohio gear.

A couple of students wearing that says one thing. I believe I noticed a couple of Kent players sitting on the bench wearing the same t-shirt/hoodie and had to do a double take.

Those were pretty ubiquitous in the arena the other night. Like a free give away in numbers.

Had another one last night. When the whistle blew and the shot clock stopped it said 20.

I've found shot clocks to be unreliable. There was a game recently where the shot clock and game clock both showed exactly one second left. The ball was inbounded but the shot clock horn sounded even tho the game clock showed 0.7 seconds. So there was actually less than a second left on the shot clock even tho it showed a second left. Last night then the shot clock may have had 19+ seconds left when the ref called the turnover.

The first situation is because the shot clock doesn't show tenths like a game clock does.

Once the shot clock hits 20 that means 10 seconds have run off, it doesn't matter if there are 19+ seconds left.

Some, most or all.

I sat in the GA section, upper section behind OUr bench. One Kent student, a senior, turned around to me when I yelled for a travel call on Kent, said, "Yes, they have missed a couple that should have gone Ohio's way". He then proceeded to ask about Tony Campbell, what happened, how he is doing and how the student missed watching Tony in the game.

Coming out of the can after the loss, in my green, a Kent fan came up to me and also asked about Tony Campbell and how the game would have likely been different had Tony been on the floor and how the Bobcats steam rolled em in Athens with Tony in January.

Pretty good experience for me, my wife, and young daughter at the MAC Center.