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Topic: Official Post App State Complaint Thread
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Posted: 2/10/2025 11:56 AM
GoCats105 wrote:expand_more
I think we may be underestimating how big of an injury losing Aidan Hadaway has become. The reason AJC is able to float along the 3pt arc and stretch defenses is because Hadaway was in the middle doing the dirty work - grabbing loose balls and getting tough rebounds. AJC also then became a garbage man in the paint of sorts when Hadaway was in the lineup, which made the team really dangerous. Now Ohio is relying on AJC to do that.

Since the Hadaway injury here are AJC's numbers:

PPG: 7.75
RPG: 5.0
FG%: 0.33%
3P%: 0.33% (He's taken only 8 more twos than threes since the injury).

Some of this can be blamed on his own injury, sure. So how hurt is he? How many minutes can he be 100%?
For what it's worth, that's a very small sample (3 games). In one of the games, he played 11 minutes and left with an injury. Basically, since Hadaway went down he's had a good game and a bad game, and a very incomplete game.

Also, we are a very bad rebounding team. We were with Hadaway, too. I don't doubt that it's hurt us a lot to lose Hadaway, but the fact that this team relied on a guy we recruited as a SF to do our dirty work in the paint tells you all you need to know about Boals' roster construction.
Last Edited: 2/10/2025 12:00:02 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Posted: 2/10/2025 12:17 PM
Casper71 wrote:expand_more
Billy, not sure what your point is. My point is simply I don’t think we are recruiting inner city kids or we can’t get them to Athens now…maybe because Athens doesn’t have a good mall. Schools like Northern Kentucky, Longwood, App State and many others… None of them were division one, but they seem to be passing us up because they are getting better players than we are.

And B2, who recruited him in 2019? And did our staff identify him as somebody comeing out of junior college that could be helpful?
My point was there is more competition out there now. Not sure how valid it is to the topic, but more DI schools today, more competition for players. That was all.
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Posted: 2/10/2025 1:08 PM
👍
ohiocatfan1
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Posted: 2/10/2025 1:42 PM
GraffZ06 wrote:expand_more
I just think a lot of this season's teams issues are

1) The best player on the team is a soft, no-defense, stretch big - who when he is on from the outside is a match-up nightmare, and when he isn't is a net negative. Clayton most nights is either really good or really bad.

2) Boals runs a free-flowing unstructured offense that is predicated on having a "jack of all trades" elite PG (Preston, Hunter etc) who can break down the defense an either get to the hoop and finish/get the foul, or drive and kick to our open shooters. Say what you want about Paveletzke - and he's a tough kid - but he isn't putting this team on his back as that type of PG.

3) With the 4-out, 1-in philosophy you have to do certain things well. Limit turnovers. Gang rebound. Shoot the 3 well.

All things considered, we've been fine with the turnovers.
Our rebounding is terrible.
We've really struggled (from where we thought we'd be) shooting the 3. Sheldon (30%), Pavs (29%), Elmore (35%), AJB (37%), Hadaway (34%), Reef (38%), Clayton (39%), Elliott (46% now but on 5 makes, 2 today in the last minute).

This team isn't going to win the MAC with Clayton and Pavs being the "guys" unless we shoot the lights out. And we aren't.
Soft, no-defense, stretch big is being way too kind. He is lazy on the defensive end and wants nothing to do with any dirty work of any kind.
GoCats105
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Posted: 2/10/2025 2:06 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
I think we may be underestimating how big of an injury losing Aidan Hadaway has become. The reason AJC is able to float along the 3pt arc and stretch defenses is because Hadaway was in the middle doing the dirty work - grabbing loose balls and getting tough rebounds. AJC also then became a garbage man in the paint of sorts when Hadaway was in the lineup, which made the team really dangerous. Now Ohio is relying on AJC to do that.

Since the Hadaway injury here are AJC's numbers:

PPG: 7.75
RPG: 5.0
FG%: 0.33%
3P%: 0.33% (He's taken only 8 more twos than threes since the injury).

Some of this can be blamed on his own injury, sure. So how hurt is he? How many minutes can he be 100%?
For what it's worth, that's a very small sample (3 games). In one of the games, he played 11 minutes and left with an injury. Basically, since Hadaway went down he's had a good game and a bad game, and a very incomplete game.

Also, we are a very bad rebounding team. We were with Hadaway, too. I don't doubt that it's hurt us a lot to lose Hadaway, but the fact that this team relied on a guy we recruited as a SF to do our dirty work in the paint tells you all you need to know about Boals' roster construction.
It's a fair assessment for sure, but it's definitely heading in the wrong direction.
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Posted: 2/10/2025 2:08 PM
ohiocatfan1 wrote:expand_more
Soft, no-defense, stretch big is being way too kind. He is lazy on the defensive end and wants nothing to do with any dirty work of any kind.
Who leads us in rebounding? Who leads us in blocked shots? Never mind. I guess your definition of "lazy" is different than mine.
Last Edited: 2/10/2025 2:10:19 PM by Jerry86
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Posted: 2/10/2025 2:15 PM
Jerry86 wrote:expand_more
Soft, no-defense, stretch big is being way too kind. He is lazy on the defensive end and wants nothing to do with any dirty work of any kind.
Who leads us in rebounding? Who leads us in blocked shots? Never mind. I guess your definition of "lazy" is different than mine.
+1
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Posted: 2/10/2025 2:42 PM
Jerry86 wrote:expand_more
Soft, no-defense, stretch big is being way too kind. He is lazy on the defensive end and wants nothing to do with any dirty work of any kind.
Who leads us in rebounding? Who leads us in blocked shots? Never mind. I guess your definition of "lazy" is different than mine.
Leading a bad rebounding team in rebounding and a very bad defensive team in blocks aren't indicators that you're necessarily a good rebounder and good interior defender.

For what it's worth, I don't think it's Clayton's fault. He's being asked to do a lot of things on this team that are outside of his comfort zone, and it shows.

He's not a 5 and that we use him as one as much as we do isn't his fault. But I think you'd be hard-pressed to argue that's he's actually a good interior defender even though I do think he's a good shot blocker. But he chases blocks which leaves him out of position sometimes, and with our lineups these days that often means you've got a 6'2 dude rotating over to defend the rim in his place.

Is he lazy? I dunno. I think his effort levels have generally been pretty good, but it's not at all surprising to me that people have developed that perception of him. He did some laughing on the bench when he probably shouldn't have, which isn't a huge deal, but is a pretty poor job of reading the room. And more importantly, while he was out our very under-sized, under-skilled team made a very, very clear effort to ramp up the defensive intensity against Kent. That was palpable. With Clayton back, that same intensity wasn't there. Is it fair to blame that on Clayton? Not really. It's Boals' job. But it's understandable that people are going to start pointing fingers at a senior leader during a season like this.
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Posted: 2/10/2025 3:59 PM
Jerry86 wrote:expand_more
Soft, no-defense, stretch big is being way too kind. He is lazy on the defensive end and wants nothing to do with any dirty work of any kind.
Who leads us in rebounding? Who leads us in blocked shots? Never mind. I guess your definition of "lazy" is different than mine.
Just because he's the tallest guy on the court for us and is usually closest to the rim due to who he's guarding, leaves him with by far the most opportunities to rebound. Just because he's averaging a whopping 5.9 per game, and 1 more per game than the rest of our bad rebounding players, does not automatically make him a good rebounder.

As for blocking shots, sure he gets a couple per game. He also lunges and jumps at every single shot fake. And not just inside but jumpers too. For every block he gets, he gets blown by 8 times for an open bucket or pass. It's the same as a guard who gets blown by on the dribble and forces the other 4 guys to help, rotate and scramble - generally leading to open shots if the other team passes well.

As for lazy, watch his hustle to rotate and recover on D. Or the lack thereof.
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Posted: 2/10/2025 4:11 PM
After some more reflecting and discussions with a few who attended the Appy St game (one of the worst halves of basketball ever seen in the Convo - their words not mine).

I'm fine with Boals strategy of us being a 3pt shooting team. But you HAVE to have plan b for those nights/halves when the shot isn't falling.

It's why I always prefer teams that emphasize defense and rebounding because that travels and is a function of will, want to, bbiq for positioning and some basic lateral quickness.

This team doesn't defend well (that's on Boals and the players)
This team doesn't rebound well (that's on Boals and the players)
But the other thing it lacks, is an option to get easy buckets at the rim, to stop runs, when the 3 isn't falling.

You get easy shots at the rim from a post man. That ain't Clayton, but it could be Searls.

You get easy shots by driving the lane and getting to the hoop. That ain't Pavs unless we're playing lower competition. It absolutely is in Reefs repertoire but I wonder how much the knee is limiting him here. The 2 that stand out who have the skill and athleticism are AJB, Elliott. Need lots more of them driving. We saw it in the first half from Elliott then App did a great job of cutting him off. Really need AJB to become "that guy" instead of standing in the corner waiting for a catch and shoot 3 all night. We saw glimpses when AJC was out. It's in him.

Third option for easy buckets is to get out in transition from our D and turnovers. Really think we need to continue to see more consistent full court pressure and trapping (not just token pressure to bleed clock) to try and get some layups.
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Posted: 2/10/2025 5:09 PM
GraffZ06 wrote:expand_more
That ain't Pavs unless we're playing lower competition.
You have a blind spot with Pavs, and I don't think you see his game or contributions accurately.

I'm not sure how somebody watching this team thinks Pavs can't create his looks for himself in the paint and doesn't create good looks for others off of penetration. Since the New Year he's shooting 60% inside the arc. Where's he taking those shots? It's not jump shots. He also assists on 30.6% of the baskets his teammates score while he's on the floor.
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Posted: 2/10/2025 6:31 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
That ain't Pavs unless we're playing lower competition.
You have a blind spot with Pavs, and I don't think you see his game or contributions accurately.

I'm not sure how somebody watching this team thinks Pavs can't create his looks for himself in the paint and doesn't create good looks for others off of penetration. Since the New Year he's shooting 60% inside the arc. Where's he taking those shots? It's not jump shots. He also assists on 30.6% of the baskets his teammates score while he's on the floor.
My only issue with Pav offensively has been his tendency to get lost in the trees and have no way out if the bucket or foul isn't coming his way. Other than that he's been fine. Losing Jaylin Hunter and getting a kid who is 2nd in the MAC in both total assists and asst/t.o. ratio and top 25 in scoring is about as good as you can ask for.
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Posted: 2/10/2025 8:27 PM
For a fan base constantly striving to be perfectly average and keep the status quo....this has to be one of their favorite Bobcat teams in recent memory. We don't really expect anything out of our coach, we have some great D2 talent, we don't strive for the post-season, and we are fine playing a "meh" schedule. If this team isn't enshrined in the Bobcatattack hall of fame in the next couple years, something is amiss.
ohiocatfan1
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Posted: 2/11/2025 8:21 AM
Jerry86 wrote:expand_more
Soft, no-defense, stretch big is being way too kind. He is lazy on the defensive end and wants nothing to do with any dirty work of any kind.
Who leads us in rebounding? Who leads us in blocked shots? Never mind. I guess your definition of "lazy" is different than mine.
Leading the team in those categories doesn't exactly mean he's a good rebounder and shot blocker.
Last Edited: 2/11/2025 8:23:55 AM by ohiocatfan1
FJC31
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Posted: 2/11/2025 10:04 AM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
That ain't Pavs unless we're playing lower competition.
You have a blind spot with Pavs, and I don't think you see his game or contributions accurately.

I'm not sure how somebody watching this team thinks Pavs can't create his looks for himself in the paint and doesn't create good looks for others off of penetration. Since the New Year he's shooting 60% inside the arc. Where's he taking those shots? It's not jump shots. He also assists on 30.6% of the baskets his teammates score while he's on the floor.
You'll never convince him.

This is the same person who claimed on the Texas State or Portland thread that Pav only has success against "unathletic white dudes under 6'3" during the Myrtle Beach tournament, when none of our opponents had a player that matched that description on their roster.
Last Edited: 2/11/2025 10:04:56 AM by FJC31
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Posted: 2/11/2025 10:10 AM
Bobcat Love wrote:expand_more
For a fan base constantly striving to be perfectly average and keep the status quo....this has to be one of their favorite Bobcat teams in recent memory. We don't really expect anything out of our coach, we have some great D2 talent, we don't strive for the post-season, and we are fine playing a "meh" schedule. If this team isn't enshrined in the Bobcatattack hall of fame in the next couple years, something is amiss.
I can't tell if this was written with tongue in cheek or not. But it's thought provoking that perhaps Boals is operating the landscape in a similar fashion from when he was a player.

Trying too hard to build a roster of a 4 year players/guys who buy into "culture" and demanding home and homes with P5 schools.

Neither is really a thing anymore. A P5 school is never coming to Athens and 4 year players that care about culture are few and far between now. That's fine if he chooses to go against today's grain, but the biproduct might a less exciting non-conference schedule and a roster with limitations.
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Posted: 2/11/2025 10:42 AM
FJC31 wrote:expand_more
That ain't Pavs unless we're playing lower competition.
You have a blind spot with Pavs, and I don't think you see his game or contributions accurately.

I'm not sure how somebody watching this team thinks Pavs can't create his looks for himself in the paint and doesn't create good looks for others off of penetration. Since the New Year he's shooting 60% inside the arc. Where's he taking those shots? It's not jump shots. He also assists on 30.6% of the baskets his teammates score while he's on the floor.
You'll never convince him.

This is the same person who claimed on the Texas State or Portland thread that Pav only has success against "unathletic white dudes under 6'3" during the Myrtle Beach tournament, when none of our opponents had a player that matched that description on their roster.
I was just doing some back of the envelope math won Pavs' numbers. If you look at his actual numbers since the New Year, it's even more pronounced:

-- 63.5% inside the arc
-- TS% of 60.5%
-- 13.9 pts, 4.2 assists, 4.3 rebounds

Prior to the New Year, his numbers were:

-- 44.7% from 2
-- 51.3% TS%
-- 11.9 pts/5.9 ast/4.3 rebounds

He's improved a lot as the season's gone on and a bunch of people just made up their minds about him, it seems.
GoCats105
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Posted: 2/11/2025 10:47 AM
FJC31 wrote:expand_more
For a fan base constantly striving to be perfectly average and keep the status quo....this has to be one of their favorite Bobcat teams in recent memory. We don't really expect anything out of our coach, we have some great D2 talent, we don't strive for the post-season, and we are fine playing a "meh" schedule. If this team isn't enshrined in the Bobcatattack hall of fame in the next couple years, something is amiss.
I can't tell if this was written with tongue in cheek or not. But it's thought provoking that perhaps Boals is operating the landscape in a similar fashion from when he was a player.

Trying too hard to build a roster of a 4 year players/guys who buy into "culture" and demanding home and homes with P5 schools.

Neither is really a thing anymore. A P5 school is never coming to Athens and 4 year players that care about culture are few and far between now. That's fine if he chooses to go against today's grain, but the biproduct might a less exciting non-conference schedule and a roster with limitations.
The only argument I'll make here is that Purdue just came to the Convo 5 years ago. Granted, that was because we got creative with combining basketball and football scheduling. But, if that's what it takes to get them to come play in our building I say keep doing it.
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Posted: 2/11/2025 11:52 AM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
That ain't Pavs unless we're playing lower competition.
You have a blind spot with Pavs, and I don't think you see his game or contributions accurately.

I'm not sure how somebody watching this team thinks Pavs can't create his looks for himself in the paint and doesn't create good looks for others off of penetration. Since the New Year he's shooting 60% inside the arc. Where's he taking those shots? It's not jump shots. He also assists on 30.6% of the baskets his teammates score while he's on the floor.
You'll never convince him.

This is the same person who claimed on the Texas State or Portland thread that Pav only has success against "unathletic white dudes under 6'3" during the Myrtle Beach tournament, when none of our opponents had a player that matched that description on their roster.
I was just doing some back of the envelope math won Pavs' numbers. If you look at his actual numbers since the New Year, it's even more pronounced:

-- 63.5% inside the arc
-- TS% of 60.5%
-- 13.9 pts, 4.2 assists, 4.3 rebounds

Prior to the New Year, his numbers were:

-- 44.7% from 2
-- 51.3% TS%
-- 11.9 pts/5.9 ast/4.3 rebounds

He's improved a lot as the season's gone on and a bunch of people just made up their minds about him, it seems.
I have a hard time forgetting his late-game miscues that have cost us wins. 3 thus far this year, counting the missed layup at Miami.
Last Edited: 2/11/2025 1:16:47 PM by SBH
ohiocatfan1
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Posted: 2/11/2025 12:42 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
Soft, no-defense, stretch big is being way too kind. He is lazy on the defensive end and wants nothing to do with any dirty work of any kind.
Who leads us in rebounding? Who leads us in blocked shots? Never mind. I guess your definition of "lazy" is different than mine.
Leading a bad rebounding team in rebounding and a very bad defensive team in blocks aren't indicators that you're necessarily a good rebounder and good interior defender.

For what it's worth, I don't think it's Clayton's fault. He's being asked to do a lot of things on this team that are outside of his comfort zone, and it shows.

He's not a 5 and that we use him as one as much as we do isn't his fault. But I think you'd be hard-pressed to argue that's he's actually a good interior defender even though I do think he's a good shot blocker. But he chases blocks which leaves him out of position sometimes, and with our lineups these days that often means you've got a 6'2 dude rotating over to defend the rim in his place.

Is he lazy? I dunno. I think his effort levels have generally been pretty good, but it's not at all surprising to me that people have developed that perception of him. He did some laughing on the bench when he probably shouldn't have, which isn't a huge deal, but is a pretty poor job of reading the room. And more importantly, while he was out our very under-sized, under-skilled team made a very, very clear effort to ramp up the defensive intensity against Kent. That was palpable. With Clayton back, that same intensity wasn't there. Is it fair to blame that on Clayton? Not really. It's Boals' job. But it's understandable that people are going to start pointing fingers at a senior leader during a season like this.
I agree that yucking it up on the bench at Akron when your team is getting absolutely smoked is not a good look from your senior leader. Tyler Tettleton at Louisville immediately came to mind.
Last Edited: 2/11/2025 12:43:13 PM by ohiocatfan1
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Posted: 2/11/2025 4:11 PM
ohiocatfan1 wrote:expand_more
Soft, no-defense, stretch big is being way too kind. He is lazy on the defensive end and wants nothing to do with any dirty work of any kind.
Who leads us in rebounding? Who leads us in blocked shots? Never mind. I guess your definition of "lazy" is different than mine.
Leading a bad rebounding team in rebounding and a very bad defensive team in blocks aren't indicators that you're necessarily a good rebounder and good interior defender.

For what it's worth, I don't think it's Clayton's fault. He's being asked to do a lot of things on this team that are outside of his comfort zone, and it shows.

He's not a 5 and that we use him as one as much as we do isn't his fault. But I think you'd be hard-pressed to argue that's he's actually a good interior defender even though I do think he's a good shot blocker. But he chases blocks which leaves him out of position sometimes, and with our lineups these days that often means you've got a 6'2 dude rotating over to defend the rim in his place.

Is he lazy? I dunno. I think his effort levels have generally been pretty good, but it's not at all surprising to me that people have developed that perception of him. He did some laughing on the bench when he probably shouldn't have, which isn't a huge deal, but is a pretty poor job of reading the room. And more importantly, while he was out our very under-sized, under-skilled team made a very, very clear effort to ramp up the defensive intensity against Kent. That was palpable. With Clayton back, that same intensity wasn't there. Is it fair to blame that on Clayton? Not really. It's Boals' job. But it's understandable that people are going to start pointing fingers at a senior leader during a season like this.
I agree that yucking it up on the bench at Akron when your team is getting absolutely smoked is not a good look from your senior leader. Tyler Tettleton at Louisville immediately came to mind.
Oh for god's sake, I think we're really reaching here. Sometimes, things are funny. Even when you're losing. Life goes on. Maybe it was a crack about how loudly Boals was going to yell after the game. Without context, there's so much nothing here.
Last Edited: 2/11/2025 4:12:38 PM by Deciduous Forest Cat
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