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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Theoretical NIL discussion
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Kevin Finnegan
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Posted: 3/19/2024 2:20 PM
Imagine we had a millionaire donor who, instead of giving $10 million to the university for upgrades and academics, decided to put that towards the basketball team for a three or four year window on NIL dollars. If we were able to assemble the best team that money could buy for those three years, how would you feel about those years? Would you feel like they were OHIO student-athletes or just hired guns wearing our jerseys but with little affiliation to the college? Would it possibly pay itself back by getting our university's name out there in ways it hasn't been in the past?
Andrew Ruck
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Posted: 3/19/2024 2:25 PM
I would enjoy it, but not nearly as much as I would if it was more natural and on a level playing field of our peers.
Andrew Ruck
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Posted: 3/19/2024 3:08 PM
Athens
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Posted: 3/19/2024 6:16 PM
I think we all want to boost the university profile but in all honesty its probably businesses like Jackie O's that have brought more interest in OU than a tournament run. At best 10 million could buy us a Buffalo level team from the Nate Oats team for a couple of seasons. 10 million toward the Convo expansion with basketball courts and an alumni center has more lasting effects.
Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Fiami @ Peden with 25,086 fans
2023 10-7 near shutout of Iowa State @ Solich Field
2025 17-10 defeat of WVU @ Peden in front of 26,740
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Posted: 3/19/2024 6:58 PM
Put me down for excited. $10m could get us a whole lot more, theoretically, than a Nate Oats Buffalo run.

For context, Hunter Dickinson left Michigan and tweeted that at Michigan he was making less than $100k. At Kansas, he's gotten ~$500k. That's a lot of money -- but he was also the highest rated player in the portal. Much of that's from true NIL endorsements with Adidas and others.

If that's the going rate for a top ranked transfer, $10m goes a long ways. Especially when you consider that NIL money is very, very likely top heavy.

I mean, every couple of weeks BTC posts here to talk about all the players being told they're going to make 100k who enter the portal and don't end up making a dime, or even finding a home. We know that's true, and it happens. But somehow we also think guys are getting showered in cash.

I have a feeling that spending 500k wisely each year would go a very, very long ways. That's a big payroll for an 8 or 9 man rotation.
Athens
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Posted: 3/19/2024 9:04 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
Put me down for excited. $10m could get us a whole lot more, theoretically, than a Nate Oats Buffalo run.
I was referring to a ceiling in talent because of the MAC. Memphis is probably a better example with the level of talent they've had over the years. With the money Ohio could be built to make a tourney run in the classic sense but I doubt it could buy us the #1 team in the country because of other factors and possibly other places equaling the 10 million.
Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Fiami @ Peden with 25,086 fans
2023 10-7 near shutout of Iowa State @ Solich Field
2025 17-10 defeat of WVU @ Peden in front of 26,740
Athens
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Posted: 3/19/2024 9:29 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
I have a feeling that spending 500k wisely each year would go a very, very long ways. That's a big payroll for an 8 or 9 man rotation.
The elephant in the room is not having adequate NIL money. Its whether or not Ohio is going to be competing in D1 within a few years.

https://wtop.com/ncaa-basketball/2024/03/march-madness-as... /

The new playoff deal in football could be a stop gap until the end of the decade until the top brands break away to form their own division. To me then the priority at Ohio should be to stay at the top level with institutional committment over pushing NIL cash infusions from individuals. Helping athletes develop NIL deals in the marketplace that should be taken seriously to promote recruiting.
Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Fiami @ Peden with 25,086 fans
2023 10-7 near shutout of Iowa State @ Solich Field
2025 17-10 defeat of WVU @ Peden in front of 26,740
Taiwan BC
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Posted: 3/20/2024 12:05 AM
I know it wouldn't fly but, if you could quantify the bump in applicants and enrollment after an NCAA tournament appearance could the case be made that this "money" and exposure were worth investing school funds into it?


That's not necessarily a novel idea but, how would/could you impliment it best? How about incentive clauses for the athletes? NCAA berth, Starters get x amount depending on how much apprecable money the school gets from enrollment, advertising, merch(?) and even the money directly from the NCAA. Second round appearance, another bonus and so on and so forth...

And, it may actually be a more efficient way to generate sports dollars for athletes at smaller schools than the successful schools considering that a lot of their success is already "cooked" in...

Anyhoo,

Go Bobcats!!!
giacomo
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Posted: 3/20/2024 3:13 PM
Has anyone seen Ricardo Montalban? This sounds like an episode of Fantasy Island.
Taiwan BC
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Posted: 3/21/2024 8:46 AM
Giacomo,
Meh, just having some fun tossing around ideas on a thread titled THEORETICAL NIL discussion. As a former player (I think?), I'd bet you know more about Ohio athletics than others. I'm curious, what are your ideas?

One last thing, as crazy as my thoughts may be, you'd better hope that there are people thinking outside the box when it comes to all things Ohio athletics. The same old strategies have been successful at keeping us level with other MAC members. Is that what our ceiling should be? Granted, NIL is a relatively new thing but, I feel that norms will be set pretty quickly and without bold moves, we will be stuck following them to our relegation and marginalization.

Go Bobcats!
Athens
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Posted: 3/21/2024 10:36 AM
I listened this morning to the university update. JC was on and said that Preston's run with Ohio in the NCAAs provided 191 million in marketing value. In another segment though alumni giving has stayed consistent the past 4 years in the 40-45 million dollar range. The bumps that a Boise State or Gonzaga level university are pronounced for athletics when they didn't have anything for alumni to be excited about before. Marshall before they built up the football team as another example since prior they were at such a low baseline previously.
Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Fiami @ Peden with 25,086 fans
2023 10-7 near shutout of Iowa State @ Solich Field
2025 17-10 defeat of WVU @ Peden in front of 26,740
Kevin Finnegan
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Posted: 3/21/2024 12:56 PM
In a way, I like it. We don't immediate control of our conference and exposure, so an influx of NIL money at any smaller university gives them a unique opportunity to try to compete in a place they traditionally wouldn't. It would likely put us on TV more and in news circles more. If a multi-year financial project could put generational talent at OHIO, it could make us a more known product. We might just be able to buy ourselves into relevancy in a way we hadn't been able to in the past.
IceCat76
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Posted: 3/21/2024 2:21 PM
I saw a tweet from Jeff Goodman a couple days ago where he pointed out that the Big East had 5 teams with $2M of NIL. They only had three teams make the tournament and he questioned how good an investment in the NIL had been.

I wonder if folk's expectations of how much NIL is floating around are too high. I get the feeling that the NIL for mid-level players isn't as high as we think.

I think that NIL is just a ruse for boosters to grease palms as they always have.
Deciduous Forest Cat
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Posted: 3/21/2024 3:20 PM
IceCat76 wrote:expand_more
I saw a tweet from Jeff Goodman a couple days ago where he pointed out that the Big East had 5 teams with $2M of NIL. They only had three teams make the tournament and he questioned how good an investment in the NIL had been.

I wonder if folk's expectations of how much NIL is floating around are too high. I get the feeling that the NIL for mid-level players isn't as high as we think.

I think that NIL is just a ruse for boosters to grease palms as they always have.
There are still only so many scholarship and 200 minutes of time to allot per game. the more money, the worse the return.
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Posted: 3/21/2024 4:20 PM
IceCat76 wrote:expand_more
I saw a tweet from Jeff Goodman a couple days ago where he pointed out that the Big East had 5 teams with $2M of NIL. They only had three teams make the tournament and he questioned how good an investment in the NIL had been.

I wonder if folk's expectations of how much NIL is floating around are too high. I get the feeling that the NIL for mid-level players isn't as high as we think.

I think that NIL is just a ruse for boosters to grease palms as they always have.
I'm 100% in this boat.

There are two types of posts about the NIL that are extremely common on BA.com:

1) We can't afford players because of the NIL, and
2) the vast majority of portal entrants are being sold a bill of goods, never make a dime, and don't find a new school

It would not shock me at all if when there's finally transparency into NIL money, we find that it's pretty top heavy, and that for the vast, vast majority the result was a couple of grand in walking around money.
giacomo
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Posted: 3/21/2024 5:14 PM
Taiwan BC wrote:expand_more
Giacomo,
Meh, just having some fun tossing around ideas on a thread titled THEORETICAL NIL discussion. As a former player (I think?), I'd bet you know more about Ohio athletics than others. I'm curious, what are your ideas?

One last thing, as crazy as my thoughts may be, you'd better hope that there are people thinking outside the box when it comes to all things Ohio athletics. The same old strategies have been successful at keeping us level with other MAC members. Is that what our ceiling should be? Granted, NIL is a relatively new thing but, I feel that norms will be set pretty quickly and without bold moves, we will be stuck following them to our relegation and marginalization.

Go Bobcats!
I like the fact that players can make money. It’s no secret that I think it’s because of the outrageous coaching salaries. However, there must be some business motivation for a local business to get involved. Or they have some fantasy that throwing money at the players will elevate our status. I’m interested in how it all plays out.
Athens
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Posted: 3/21/2024 6:19 PM
With the power conferences taking in 3-4 transfers a year that is pushing more talented players down to the mid-major level. In football Ohio had its 5th string RB score 5 TDs after the starters hit the portal. Its happened before where a 5th string skill player can have a great game walking in but in the past I've noticed it from a mid tier Big Ten program like Michigan State or Iowa pull a player out of the hat for a bowl. To see that at Ohio in part because of the portal/NIL is something new.

Personally the level of athlete in the arena is a main factor in wanting to watch and there is noticable difference as you move up the talent food chain. Watching a game with Top 40 college basketball talent in it feels like a NBA game. MAC semifinal with Akron who had a couple guys in there in Freeman and Ali that could be in the Big East and the defensive intensity in the first half. Its a different experience than a game against two MAC teams at the bottom. Ohio should strive to be built like a Sweet 16 team. Higher talent level is more exciting for the fans.
Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Fiami @ Peden with 25,086 fans
2023 10-7 near shutout of Iowa State @ Solich Field
2025 17-10 defeat of WVU @ Peden in front of 26,740
giacomo
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Posted: 3/22/2024 9:05 AM
To me, attending a game is part of the campus experience. I would think that if you live in Athens county, it’s the same thing. Regardless of the talent. We should be competitive and we are. We have a great band. Attending a game in Athens is a great experience and one I wish I could do more often.
oldkatz
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Posted: 3/22/2024 12:02 PM
giacomo wrote:expand_more
To me, attending a game is part of the campus experience. I would think that if you live in Athens county, it’s the same thing. Regardless of the talent. We should be competitive and we are. We have a great band. Attending a game in Athens is a great experience and one I wish I could do more often.
This. And, indeed, it is old school thinking but I like it.
"All my inside sources tell me I have no inside sources." Salvatore "money bucks" Mafiosiano.
Alan Swank
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Posted: 3/22/2024 9:36 PM
Campus Flow wrote:expand_more
I listened this morning to the university update. JC was on and said that Preston's run with Ohio in the NCAAs provided 191 million in marketing value. In another segment though alumni giving has stayed consistent the past 4 years in the 40-45 million dollar range. The bumps that a Boise State or Gonzaga level university are pronounced for athletics when they didn't have anything for alumni to be excited about before. Marshall before they built up the football team as another example since prior they were at such a low baseline previously.
These extrapolated marketing figures are feel good figures passed around to simply justify spending more. As for giving to the university, one off gifts like the Patton money totally skews averages.
mid70sbobcat
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Posted: 3/22/2024 10:41 PM
oldkatz wrote:expand_more
To me, attending a game is part of the campus experience. I would think that if you live in Athens county, it’s the same thing. Regardless of the talent. We should be competitive and we are. We have a great band. Attending a game in Athens is a great experience and one I wish I could do more often.
This. And, indeed, it is old school thinking but I like it.
+1. Back in my days we got to the Convo so early and sat directly behind the visitor's bench. Darrel Hendric, Miami's coach got more than an earful. Dick Parfitt of CMU, Bob Nichols of Toledo, the same. Seeing Indiana, OSU, Missouri, Cincinnati in the Convo was something I doubt we ever see again. Then, I doubt we see the crowds from back then. Living on West Green we spent hours daily in Grover and I'll not forget playing with Billy Brown, Chuck Seltzer, transfer from Lasalle, and others in pickup games.
Athens
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Posted: 3/23/2024 1:51 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
I listened this morning to the university update. JC was on and said that Preston's run with Ohio in the NCAAs provided 191 million in marketing value. In another segment though alumni giving has stayed consistent the past 4 years in the 40-45 million dollar range. The bumps that a Boise State or Gonzaga level university are pronounced for athletics when they didn't have anything for alumni to be excited about before. Marshall before they built up the football team as another example since prior they were at such a low baseline previously.
These extrapolated marketing figures are feel good figures passed around to simply justify spending more. As for giving to the university, one off gifts like the Patton money totally skews averages.
Justify spending more or justify not taking cuts or moving down from D1. The Big Ten and SEC are tired of the smaller conferences especially those without FBS football having a lot os sway on NCAA committees and voting rights.

On the Patton gift the last portion of that was back in 2019. I was quoting from 2020-2024 in the 40-45 million range each year. The goal this year is to try to push giving to 50 million. However the OU Foundation spent out 26.3 million last year so likely 100 million since the start of the decade. Included in that disbursement is scholarship money like the now deal where if a student is fron Athens and surrounding counties its tuition free.
Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Fiami @ Peden with 25,086 fans
2023 10-7 near shutout of Iowa State @ Solich Field
2025 17-10 defeat of WVU @ Peden in front of 26,740
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