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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Official MAC Tournament Quarterfinals Thread: Ball St.
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shabamon
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Posted: 3/10/2023 11:12 AM
If you were to take Gabe's 22/23 stats and put them side by side with Kenneth van Kempen's stats from his third year, I'd give the statistical edge to Gabe across the board. Everything we're saying about Gabe was said about KVK back then. We know the jump KVK made for his senior year and Gabe has a lot of work to do to get to that same career arc. For that reason, I don't think it's accurate to say he's not a D1 player.
IceCat76
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Posted: 3/10/2023 11:15 AM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
Yes, that is correct…I wouldn’t play The Whiz at all in Cleveland. That is what I meant when I said shorten the bench. Ask yourself this. Boals always takes Wilson out at around the 16:20 mark before the first TV timeout. Do you really think we are losing anything if The Whiz didn’t come in for DW3 and we brought in Clayton? I will argue that we are better off in this scenario. I think we can survive for 2 minutes with Clayton coming in for Wilson instead of The Whiz. As Andrew Ruck so eloquently stated in an earlier post…The Whiz is not a division-one basketball player and it’s embarrassing that we have to give him props and get excited when he makes a simple hand-off pass.
If this is all so obvious, why does Boals keep playing Wiznitzer? It's clear that Gabe needs work and coaching up, but Boals must see a possible future in him that some on this board do not. Not to besmirch the basketball brilliance of us BA posters, but I do think Boals knows more about coaching D1 basketball and player development than almost anyone on this board.

I think that Boals sees Wiz as 10 min a game big that he can use all 5 fouls to beat on other teams bigs. I don't think he has any notion that Wiz will develop into much more.
I also think he doesn't want to burn any bridges with Hargrave. We've had some luck with Hargrave and running Wiz off would not be productive.
FJC31
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Posted: 3/10/2023 11:35 AM
Jerry86 wrote:expand_more
Would love to see DWIII get stretches of court time longer than 3-4 minutes.

Anderson Mirambeuax just played the first 6:42 of the second half of the first quarterfinal game. Just saying.
Yup....you have to go with DW3 as long as you can. Shorten the bench. I said it earlier in this thread. This is March not November.
This aged well. Considering Baker and Brown keyed the take off!

How about lengthening the bench and get to Toledo fresher than playing Dwight forever.

In Boals we trust.


What are you talking about? For once, I didn't specifically call out The Whiz in a post. Who else do you think I was talking about??? But since you brought it up...yes...shorten the bench. Which means...The Whiz shouldn't play another second in Cleveland. There ya go.

Thanks for saying he shouldn't play another minute--but you wouldn't have had him play today till the bench was cleared. Was it bad strategy on the part of the staff to have a 9 man rotation today with potential 3 games in 3 days?

Sparks isn't particularly good at the line so making him work and hacking him was what Wiznitzer offered. Perhaps not so with Toledo. However, it seems you wouldn't have played him until the bench cleared. By his playing, he kept Clayton and Wilson on the bench some extra minutes and just perhaps allowed for springier legs if they can make it to that third game Saturday.

Boals will play him tomorrow too so folks don't start drinking because of it! Just too bad our friends in Oxford didn't make the Rockets work up a sweat.
Yes, that is correct…I wouldn’t play The Whiz at all in Cleveland. That is what I meant when I said shorten the bench. Ask yourself this. Boals always takes Wilson out at around the 16:20 mark before the first TV timeout. Do you really think we are losing anything if The Whiz didn’t come in for DW3 and we brought in Clayton? I will argue that we are better off in this scenario. I think we can survive for 2 minutes with Clayton coming in for Wilson instead of The Whiz. As Andrew Ruck so eloquently stated in an earlier post…The Whiz is not a division-one basketball player and it’s embarrassing that we have to give him props and get excited when he makes a simple hand-off pass.
I'm curious who you hate more? Saul or Witnitzer?
I don’t think anyone hates Wiz on here. He just isn’t the caliber of player we need him to be. There’s a difference and it’s ok to not be ok with that.
FearLeon
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Posted: 3/10/2023 12:22 PM
FJC31 wrote:expand_more
Would love to see DWIII get stretches of court time longer than 3-4 minutes.

Anderson Mirambeuax just played the first 6:42 of the second half of the first quarterfinal game. Just saying.
Yup....you have to go with DW3 as long as you can. Shorten the bench. I said it earlier in this thread. This is March not November.
This aged well. Considering Baker and Brown keyed the take off!

How about lengthening the bench and get to Toledo fresher than playing Dwight forever.

In Boals we trust.


What are you talking about? For once, I didn't specifically call out The Whiz in a post. Who else do you think I was talking about??? But since you brought it up...yes...shorten the bench. Which means...The Whiz shouldn't play another second in Cleveland. There ya go.

Thanks for saying he shouldn't play another minute--but you wouldn't have had him play today till the bench was cleared. Was it bad strategy on the part of the staff to have a 9 man rotation today with potential 3 games in 3 days?

Sparks isn't particularly good at the line so making him work and hacking him was what Wiznitzer offered. Perhaps not so with Toledo. However, it seems you wouldn't have played him until the bench cleared. By his playing, he kept Clayton and Wilson on the bench some extra minutes and just perhaps allowed for springier legs if they can make it to that third game Saturday.

Boals will play him tomorrow too so folks don't start drinking because of it! Just too bad our friends in Oxford didn't make the Rockets work up a sweat.
Yes, that is correct…I wouldn’t play The Whiz at all in Cleveland. That is what I meant when I said shorten the bench. Ask yourself this. Boals always takes Wilson out at around the 16:20 mark before the first TV timeout. Do you really think we are losing anything if The Whiz didn’t come in for DW3 and we brought in Clayton? I will argue that we are better off in this scenario. I think we can survive for 2 minutes with Clayton coming in for Wilson instead of The Whiz. As Andrew Ruck so eloquently stated in an earlier post…The Whiz is not a division-one basketball player and it’s embarrassing that we have to give him props and get excited when he makes a simple hand-off pass.
I'm curious who you hate more? Saul or Witnitzer?
I don’t think anyone hates Wiz on here. He just isn’t the caliber of player we need him to be. There’s a difference and it’s ok to not be ok with that.
+1,000,000
#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT #NoMissesAllowed #NoOtherTeamInAmericaFlexesLikeOhio #11Months
Andrew Ruck
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Posted: 3/10/2023 12:29 PM
shabamon wrote:expand_more
If you were to take Gabe's 22/23 stats and put them side by side with Kenneth van Kempen's stats from his third year, I'd give the statistical edge to Gabe across the board. Everything we're saying about Gabe was said about KVK back then. We know the jump KVK made for his senior year and Gabe has a lot of work to do to get to that same career arc. For that reason, I don't think it's accurate to say he's not a D1 player.
I understand this comp, I really do. But I'd love to bet you a steak dinner on Wiz being able to mirror KVK's senior year.

I remember the frustration with KVK, but I did not dog him like I am Wiz just based on the eye test. The only 2 players I've ever really just completely gave up on were Wiz & Teyvion Kirk. KVK had some level of footwork and hands to show potential. Also much better body language.

And yes OCF, I think it is obvious Boals does indeed believe in Wiz more than most of us here. I realize he is way more qualified than us and that we sound ridiculous to act like we know better. But it also wouldn't be the first time in sports history that a coach who took a chance on someone saw more potential and positives than the more unbiased and removed observers. Every minute he is in the game is terrifying.
Andrew Ruck
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Cats5
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Posted: 3/10/2023 12:38 PM
Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
If you were to take Gabe's 22/23 stats and put them side by side with Kenneth van Kempen's stats from his third year, I'd give the statistical edge to Gabe across the board. Everything we're saying about Gabe was said about KVK back then. We know the jump KVK made for his senior year and Gabe has a lot of work to do to get to that same career arc. For that reason, I don't think it's accurate to say he's not a D1 player.
I understand this comp, I really do. But I'd love to bet you a steak dinner on Wiz being able to mirror KVK's senior year.

I remember the frustration with KVK, but I did not dog him like I am Wiz just based on the eye test. The only 2 players I've ever really just completely gave up on were Wiz & Teyvion Kirk. KVK had some level of footwork and hands to show potential. Also much better body language.

And yes OCF, I think it is obvious Boals does indeed believe in Wiz more than most of us here. I realize he is way more qualified than us and that we sound ridiculous to act like we know better. But it also wouldn't be the first time in sports history that a coach who took a chance on someone saw more potential and positives than the more unbiased and removed observers. Every minute he is in the game is terrifying.
Gabe was the best defensive player in the MAC against Enrique Freeman at the Convo haha
Last Edited: 3/10/2023 12:39:14 PM by Cats5
GoCats105
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Posted: 3/10/2023 1:23 PM
Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
If you were to take Gabe's 22/23 stats and put them side by side with Kenneth van Kempen's stats from his third year, I'd give the statistical edge to Gabe across the board. Everything we're saying about Gabe was said about KVK back then. We know the jump KVK made for his senior year and Gabe has a lot of work to do to get to that same career arc. For that reason, I don't think it's accurate to say he's not a D1 player.
I understand this comp, I really do. But I'd love to bet you a steak dinner on Wiz being able to mirror KVK's senior year.

I remember the frustration with KVK, but I did not dog him like I am Wiz just based on the eye test. The only 2 players I've ever really just completely gave up on were Wiz & Teyvion Kirk. KVK had some level of footwork and hands to show potential. Also much better body language.

And yes OCF, I think it is obvious Boals does indeed believe in Wiz more than most of us here. I realize he is way more qualified than us and that we sound ridiculous to act like we know better. But it also wouldn't be the first time in sports history that a coach who took a chance on someone saw more potential and positives than the more unbiased and removed observers. Every minute he is in the game is terrifying.
Curious, why did you give up on TK? Personally I thought he would have been an awesome player if he played a position more suited to his strengths (the SF rather than the PG). I didn't necessarily give up on him, but you knew what you were going to get from him in that spot. IIRC, Saul and Co didn't have anyone else to turn to in that spot unless you hand the keys over to Freshman Jason Preston, which at that time most people thought was a project.
Andrew Ruck
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Posted: 3/10/2023 2:13 PM
GoCats105 wrote:expand_more
Curious, why did you give up on TK? Personally I thought he would have been an awesome player if he played a position more suited to his strengths (the SF rather than the PG). I didn't necessarily give up on him, but you knew what you were going to get from him in that spot. IIRC, Saul and Co didn't have anyone else to turn to in that spot unless you hand the keys over to Freshman Jason Preston, which at that time most people thought was a project.
I loathed TK and had no hope for him. But yes, Saul's insistence on keeping him running the point was maddening. I don't agree with your last point...By February, virtually everyone on here recognized Preston should be the point guard. Kirk was about 0.5 A to TO while Preston was about 5 to 1. By the end of the season, many of us were really fed up with it. In hindsight, we couldn't have been more correct. Who knows how Saul would have ended up if he gave the PG spot to Preston to start MAC play.

Not only was TK a miserable passer with no court vision who recklessly left his feet, he also had absolutely no outside shot. He was like a 20% 3 point shooter and had no mid-range touch. All he could do was recklessly charge the paint and chuck up a layup and often draw a foul. He irritated me to no end and while we all agree he was NOT a D1 point guard, I would say he wasn't a D1 player of any kind and brought negative value to both us and UIC.
Andrew Ruck
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OhioCatFan
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Posted: 3/10/2023 2:26 PM
Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
Curious, why did you give up on TK? Personally I thought he would have been an awesome player if he played a position more suited to his strengths (the SF rather than the PG). I didn't necessarily give up on him, but you knew what you were going to get from him in that spot. IIRC, Saul and Co didn't have anyone else to turn to in that spot unless you hand the keys over to Freshman Jason Preston, which at that time most people thought was a project.
I loathed TK and had no hope for him. But yes, Saul's insistence on keeping him running the point was maddening. I don't agree with your last point...By February, virtually everyone on here recognized Preston should be the point guard. Kirk was about 0.5 A to TO while Preston was about 5 to 1. By the end of the season, many of us were really fed up with it. In hindsight, we couldn't have been more correct. Who knows how Saul would have ended up if he gave the PG spot to Preston to start MAC play.

Not only was TK a miserable passer with no court vision who recklessly left his feet, he also had absolutely no outside shot. He was like a 20% 3 point shooter and had no mid-range touch. All he could do was recklessly charge the paint and chuck up a layup and often draw a foul. He irritated me to no end and while we all agree he was NOT a D1 point guard, I would say he wasn't a D1 player of any kind and brought negative value to both us and UIC.
Not to sound like BL, but I think Saul may have been intimidated by TK's father.
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"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org
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