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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Elam Ending - Yes
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DXer
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Posted: 8/7/2022 12:48 AM
I find the Elam Ending to be the very best idea for basketball to come down the pike in many, many years. The current way of having the final minutes of a basketball game be an endless parade to the foul line, caused by intentional fouls that aren’t whistled as intentional fouls, is absolute nonsense. It is incredibly irritating. The game is played a certain way for almost the entire game, then the final minutes are played totally different, and those final minutes are a drudgery to watch.

In the Elam ending, both teams play offense and defense all the way to the conclusion of the game. Plus there is no clock to run out. If the team that is behind can play excellent defense, they can catch up to the leading team.

I would love to see this idea tried in games where there is no national consequences to be concerned about. The NCAA and the NBA will certainly not experiment with it for season games that count. But why not for NCAA pre-season games, and G-League games where no national championship is on the line. I believe that both the teams and the fans will find the change very enjoyable.
Andrew Ruck
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Posted: 8/16/2022 3:17 PM
I agree. I'm all in on it. People worry about losing the buzzer beater drama but to me "next bucket wins" is equally as exciting.
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BillyTheCat
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Posted: 8/16/2022 10:55 PM
So why play the early parts of the game?
Andrew Ruck
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Posted: 8/17/2022 7:57 AM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
So why play the early parts of the game?
Is that a serious question? To determine how many points you need to score in the final stretch. The deficit going in will be extremely important. If Ohio is up 12...Ohio needs to score 8 while Miami needs to score 20.

The final minutes of most basketball games are absolutely dreadful.
Andrew Ruck
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BillyTheCat
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Posted: 8/17/2022 8:48 AM
Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
So why play the early parts of the game?
Is that a serious question? To determine how many points you need to score in the final stretch. The deficit going in will be extremely important. If Ohio is up 12...Ohio needs to score 8 while Miami needs to score 20.

The final minutes of most basketball games are absolutely dreadful.
Yeah it’s a serious question. It’s stupid (IMO). These is nothing wrong with the basic rules of the game.
MonroeClassmate
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Posted: 8/17/2022 9:35 AM
Take Nashville vs NC.

At each break in the action late in the game and OT, the 110 brought the fans from OHIO and the two other school's fans not named NC to their feet to cheer. O ------- H -------- I ------ O, -O H I O, OHIOOHIOOHIO!!!

Never would have happened under this diabolical plan to upset the status quo.
Last Edited: 8/17/2022 9:38:21 AM by MonroeClassmate
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 8/17/2022 11:21 AM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
So why play the early parts of the game?
Is that a serious question? To determine how many points you need to score in the final stretch. The deficit going in will be extremely important. If Ohio is up 12...Ohio needs to score 8 while Miami needs to score 20.

The final minutes of most basketball games are absolutely dreadful.
Yeah it’s a serious question. It’s stupid (IMO). These is nothing wrong with the basic rules of the game.
+1 Stupid is nice word for it. I believe that this is basically a sign that we have nothing better to talk about in the off-season. Now, I'm off to start a thread on why women need to "man up" and use the same size ball as men in college basketball. . .
The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

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Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 8/17/2022 12:48 PM
OCF, speaking of women’s basketball. It’s the only team sort where they play with the same size ball from peewee to professional.
OUVan
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Posted: 8/17/2022 3:59 PM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
So why play the early parts of the game?
Is that a serious question? To determine how many points you need to score in the final stretch. The deficit going in will be extremely important. If Ohio is up 12...Ohio needs to score 8 while Miami needs to score 20.

The final minutes of most basketball games are absolutely dreadful.
Yeah it’s a serious question. It’s stupid (IMO). These is nothing wrong with the basic rules of the game.
Stupid is what the NBA does by advancing the ball to half-court at the end of games. It turns the last minute of a game into an interminable slog. CBB tries every year to change the game into the NBA which is idiocy IMO. The NBA only works because of the ridiculous amount of talent. The NBA game doesn't work at the college level because the talent just isn't there. But I digress because that is a different issue entirely. The Elam Ending results in teams actually playing basketball for the entirety of the game which is hardly stupid. Every single game ends in a game winning shot. I seriously doubt we'll see the Elam Ending gain any footing in the foreseeable future but it sure is less stupid than watching free throw contests for the last 2 minutes of a game (30 minutes real time).
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 8/18/2022 8:52 AM
OUVan wrote:expand_more
So why play the early parts of the game?
Is that a serious question? To determine how many points you need to score in the final stretch. The deficit going in will be extremely important. If Ohio is up 12...Ohio needs to score 8 while Miami needs to score 20.

The final minutes of most basketball games are absolutely dreadful.
Yeah it’s a serious question. It’s stupid (IMO). These is nothing wrong with the basic rules of the game.
Stupid is what the NBA does by advancing the ball to half-court at the end of games. It turns the last minute of a game into an interminable slog. CBB tries every year to change the game into the NBA which is idiocy IMO. The NBA only works because of the ridiculous amount of talent. The NBA game doesn't work at the college level because the talent just isn't there. But I digress because that is a different issue entirely. The Elam Ending results in teams actually playing basketball for the entirety of the game which is hardly stupid. Every single game ends in a game winning shot. I seriously doubt we'll see the Elam Ending gain any footing in the foreseeable future but it sure is less stupid than watching free throw contests for the last 2 minutes of a game (30 minutes real time).
You've convinced me! I think maybe we should organize a boycott of all basketball until the powers that be change and give us the Elam Ending. Start now, join the boycott of the game with the stupid rules.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 8/19/2022 12:24 AM
OUVan wrote:expand_more
So why play the early parts of the game?
Is that a serious question? To determine how many points you need to score in the final stretch. The deficit going in will be extremely important. If Ohio is up 12...Ohio needs to score 8 while Miami needs to score 20.

The final minutes of most basketball games are absolutely dreadful.
Yeah it’s a serious question. It’s stupid (IMO). These is nothing wrong with the basic rules of the game.
Stupid is what the NBA does by advancing the ball to half-court at the end of games. It turns the last minute of a game into an interminable slog. CBB tries every year to change the game into the NBA which is idiocy IMO. The NBA only works because of the ridiculous amount of talent. The NBA game doesn't work at the college level because the talent just isn't there. But I digress because that is a different issue entirely. The Elam Ending results in teams actually playing basketball for the entirety of the game which is hardly stupid. Every single game ends in a game winning shot. I seriously doubt we'll see the Elam Ending gain any footing in the foreseeable future but it sure is less stupid than watching free throw contests for the last 2 minutes of a game (30 minutes real time).
Are you aware that this advancing the ball to the other end of the court after a time out at the end of a game rule (which I agree I don’t like) is used in NCAA Women’s Basketball?
The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org
Andrew Ruck
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Posted: 8/19/2022 10:15 AM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
You've convinced me! I think maybe we should organize a boycott of all basketball until the powers that be change and give us the Elam Ending. Start now, join the boycott of the game with the stupid rules.
Death, taxes, and BTC using sarcasm to shit on reasonable discussion.
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Kevin Finnegan
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Posted: 8/19/2022 5:16 PM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
OCF, speaking of women’s basketball. It’s the only team sort where they play with the same size ball from peewee to professional.
This wouldn't be exactly correct. In baseball, the ball is always a 9 inch circumference, even in T-Ball and little league. The make-up of the ball is different, but the size itself is the same from beginning to the majors.
Pataskala
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Posted: 8/20/2022 1:12 PM
As I remember TOS was a master at extending games by fouling guys who couldn't hit a FT to save the world. We won a few, including some key games, that way. Where it gets tedious is when teams foul guys who shoot 70-90% from the line. If you're not going give your team the best chance at winning by fouling rotten FT shooters, why bother?

And playing to a certain number of points can also be boring. Last Sunday there was Big 3 game that went forever because neither team scored for five or ten minutes at the end.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

Andrew Ruck
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Posted: 8/22/2022 10:32 AM
Pataskala wrote:expand_more
And playing to a certain number of points can also be boring. Last Sunday there was Big 3 game that went forever because neither team scored for five or ten minutes at the end.
I've thought about this and wondered if a hybrid idea is an option. Whoever scores 8 points first, or whoever is leading after 5 minutes...whichever comes first. Then you still have the potential for some exciting buzzer related finishes BUT it still eliminates the constantly foul strategy.
Andrew Ruck
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BillyTheCat
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Posted: 8/22/2022 12:27 PM
Kevin Finnegan wrote:expand_more
OCF, speaking of women’s basketball. It’s the only team sort where they play with the same size ball from peewee to professional.
This wouldn't be exactly correct. In baseball, the ball is always a 9 inch circumference, even in T-Ball and little league. The make-up of the ball is different, but the size itself is the same from beginning to the majors.
Yes, you are correct in circumference, however, the ball is lighter ;-)
DXer
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Posted: 9/15/2022 3:43 PM
OUVan is right on when he says:
"The Elam Ending results in teams actually playing basketball for the entirety of the game which is hardly stupid. Every single game ends in a game winning shot."

This made me realize that every single game will now have one or more potential game-winning possessions. That is exciting - at every game.

Imagine the Convo when the Cats gets the ball and are in a potential game-winning possession. The fans in the Convo are all on their feet, cheering for the Cats to win the game. On the other hand, if the opponent has the ball on a potential game-winning possession, the Cats' fans are on their feet chanting Defense-Defense, rooting for the Cats to get a stop and have another chance to catch up to the opponent's lead.

This is 100 times better than the continuous parade to the foul line via intentional fouls that we see so often in the waning minutes of a game in today's world.
shabamon
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Posted: 9/15/2022 3:58 PM
But winning team/losing team would be rendered stupid. You want to do that with the opponent on the court and the clock winding down. ;)

Give me miracle plays like Freeman over Miami or Ndour's dunk over Buffalo. I'll tell you, it's not the intentional fouling and free throw parade that slows close games to a slog. I can handle that. It's constant monitor reviews to determine who touched the ball last, how many tenths of a second are left, whether the ball hit the rim.
Andrew Ruck
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Posted: 9/16/2022 10:24 AM
shabamon wrote:expand_more
Give me miracle plays like Freeman over Miami or Ndour's dunk over Buffalo.
Great you found 2 examples in what 15 years? This reminds me of when so many baseball fans were upset when baseball eliminated actually throwing 4 pitches to intentionally walk someone because one time Pete Rose hit one and another time Miguel Cabrera did.

The exciting finishes would be MUCH more plentiful under this model.

One other point, which could be seen as either a positive or a negative, is teams would be less willing to put the bench in for the final moments of a blowout.
Andrew Ruck
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OhioCatFan
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Posted: 9/16/2022 1:35 PM
Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
Give me miracle plays like Freeman over Miami or Ndour's dunk over Buffalo.
Great you found 2 examples in what 15 years? This reminds me of when so many baseball fans were upset when baseball eliminated actually throwing 4 pitches to intentionally walk someone because one time Pete Rose hit one and another time Miguel Cabrera did.

The exciting finishes would be MUCH more plentiful under this model.

One other point, which could be seen as either a positive or a negative, is teams would be less willing to put the bench in for the final moments of a blowout.
I still don’t like the automatic walk, and I don’t like the designated hitter rule either.
The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org
stub
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Posted: 9/17/2022 12:04 PM
I can recall two times seeing a batter called out on strikes after being thrown intentional balls. One might have been a playoff or series game.
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 9/19/2022 11:25 AM
DXer
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Posted: 10/5/2022 10:50 PM
I just read that the NBA G League is adopting a form of the Elam Ending for its games this season. They will use it for overtime. Instead of a clock, the first team to reach 7 additional points will win the OT. That is great !!! No more boring back-and-forth with intentional fouls, at least during the OT period. Just straight basketball. I have always hated the 5 minute OT periods anyway, as I believe they are way too long just to settle a tie. The Elam Ending will bring more excitement to the OT. It also ends the idea of multiple overtimes in any game. Nice.
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