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Topic:  End Of Game Execution: Michigan

Topic:  End Of Game Execution: Michigan
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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  End Of Game Execution: Michigan
   Posted: 11/21/2022 11:05:09 AM 
There are many more qualified basketball experts on this board than me who played the game and coached so I'm curious what you guys think. Here are my questions following the Michigan game. I'll try to keep this in chronological order.

*One minute left...score is tied and we have the ball with a full shot clock. In this situation, why not play for a 2-for-1 situation. Get the shot up at 45....this way if there is a miss...you have an opportunity to still tie or win if Michigan scores. Doing what we did...was nothing. We dribbled out the clock (ironic it happened with Jaaron Simmons watching on the Michigan bench) and got no shot off and there were only 33 seconds on the clock left. Of course Michigan turned it over...but the Wolverines could have taken the game-winning basket leaving us with zero clock to work with. Why not go 2-for-1?

*Hunter 25 footer with 6 seconds left in regulation. Why?? We were running downhill and had the advantage. Why not take it to the basket? Worst case...time ends and no fear of fouling Michigan late or giving them one last shot.

*Baker foul at end of regulation. Honestly, did he think we were trailing? Isn't the last thing coming out of that timeout with 33 seconds left is telling your guys not to foul unless Michigan scores late and we miss and there is somehow still a second or two left. I mean Baker is a veteran guy. As ticky tack of a foul as it was, it was still a foul because he wrapped him from behind. It made no sense.

*I would love for someone to confirm this. But I swear Clayton was out of the game at the 4 minute mark of regulation and then he was brought back into the game in OT with 24 seconds left when he threw up an air-ball 3-pointer. I know he hit the shot again Belmont, but how can you trust him to make a shot in that situation when he was 1-10 from the field before then (finished 0-7 from 3 point land)?

Alright...I'll have you guys who know more about the game than me address end of the game situational awareness.

This one stings fellas....a chance at a top-25 regular season win and we simply handed it to them on a silver platter over the last four minutes of regulation. I also see Michigan losing in the first round of the NCAA Tournament.






Last Edited: 11/21/2022 11:21:05 AM by FearLeon


#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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UpSan Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: End Of Game Execution: Michigan
   Posted: 11/21/2022 11:10:40 AM 
I'm with you on the first three things. Didn't pay enough attention on the fourth. Overall, I was disappointed by the lack of awareness to the situations in the final minutes.
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Andrew Ruck
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  Message Not Read  RE: End Of Game Execution: Michigan
   Posted: 11/21/2022 11:18:10 AM 
You touched on some of the same things I did in the game thread, I will repost it here. It was a series of mistakes, no question....

Game tied with a minute to go and we have a terrible possession where we burn clock for no reason, should have just ran the normal offense and score well above 30 seconds so they can't hold for last possession. Ultimately turn it over at the end of shot clock. Really awful.

Then...We get a stop and spazz hurry a shot with about 5 seconds still on the clock.

Then...How has no one mentioned the ultimate brain fart from Devon Baker? He clearly forgot the game was tied and thought we were trailing and committed an obvious foul after the rebound...the type you expect to see when you're desperate & down.

Then...We get an absolute gift of the most wide open easiest shot in history and Roderick doesn't come even remotely close to making. Wilson put back luckily gets Roderick & Baker off the hook and basically makes it as though Baker never tried to literally hand Michigan the game with the foul.

Then in OT, we get the ball down 2 with 40 seconds to go. After the disappointing first 3.5 minutes of OT this is very fortunate. We hurry a shot but get an offensive rebound.

Then...(this one is most upsetting to me), we get the ball back out to reset with a full 18 seconds still on the shot clock and Clayton acts as though there is about 0.5 seconds left in the game...feverishly hoists a very contested shot rather than even consider resetting and running some ball movement. Again, we are only down 2.

Then...Michigan gives us a chance with a missed free throw. Down 3 and the next 3 UM fouls are a 1 and 1. If you let the clock get under 10 or so of course they will foul. So what do we do but stand there and let the clock get under 10 seconds before we do anything. UM predictably fouls.

Then...Roderick takes a zero confidence free throw for the miss. Even if he had made it...we were pretty well screwed because we forfeited most the game clock before they fouled us.


Andrew Ruck
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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  RE: End Of Game Execution: Michigan
   Posted: 11/21/2022 11:20:09 AM 
Andrew Ruck wrote:
You touched on some of the same things I did in the game thread, I will repost it here. It was a series of mistakes, no question....

Game tied with a minute to go and we have a terrible possession where we burn clock for no reason, should have just ran the normal offense and score well above 30 seconds so they can't hold for last possession. Ultimately turn it over at the end of shot clock. Really awful.

Then...We get a stop and spazz hurry a shot with about 5 seconds still on the clock.

Then...How has no one mentioned the ultimate brain fart from Devon Baker? He clearly forgot the game was tied and thought we were trailing and committed an obvious foul after the rebound...the type you expect to see when you're desperate & down.

Then...We get an absolute gift of the most wide open easiest shot in history and Roderick doesn't come even remotely close to making. Wilson put back luckily gets Roderick & Baker off the hook and basically makes it as though Baker never tried to literally hand Michigan the game with the foul.

Then in OT, we get the ball down 2 with 40 seconds to go. After the disappointing first 3.5 minutes of OT this is very fortunate. We hurry a shot but get an offensive rebound.

Then...(this one is most upsetting to me), we get the ball back out to reset with a full 18 seconds still on the shot clock and Clayton acts as though there is about 0.5 seconds left in the game...feverishly hoists a very contested shot rather than even consider resetting and running some ball movement. Again, we are only down 2.

Then...Michigan gives us a chance with a missed free throw. Down 3 and the next 3 UM fouls are a 1 and 1. If you let the clock get under 10 or so of course they will foul. So what do we do but stand there and let the clock get under 10 seconds before we do anything. UM predictably fouls.

Then...Roderick takes a zero confidence free throw for the miss. Even if he had made it...we were pretty well screwed because we forfeited most the game clock before they fouled us.


Holy crap...did we send these at the same time? Never saw yours. Great post.



Last Edited: 11/21/2022 11:20:19 AM by FearLeon


#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  RE: End Of Game Execution: Michigan
   Posted: 11/21/2022 11:26:55 AM 
Andrew Ruck wrote:


Then...Michigan gives us a chance with a missed free throw. Down 3 and the next 3 UM fouls are a 1 and 1. If you let the clock get under 10 or so of course they will foul. So what do we do but stand there and let the clock get under 10 seconds before we do anything. UM predictably fouls.



Nailed it. Why in the hell are we dribbling out the clock with 18 seconds left down three? Have to attack the rim or get off a quick three with 10 seconds left to at least give your self a chance to foul and extend the game.

I was always critical of Saul with in-game decisions and I really think Boals has to take a deep look at his coaching over the last four minutes of regulation and OT. It was bad. I can't sugarcoat any of it.



Last Edited: 11/21/2022 11:27:25 AM by FearLeon


#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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shabamon
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  Message Not Read  RE: End Of Game Execution: Michigan
   Posted: 11/21/2022 11:39:27 AM 
The only thing I don't have a problem with was Hunter's pull up three with six seconds left. Take a semi-open look while the defense is disorganized and give yourself a chance at a putback. In a tie game, two shots are better than one.

Otherwise, we made a series of dumb decisions down the stretch. Part of it is coaching, but part of it is also on scholarship basketball players. Game planning to initiate your offense in a way that will likely not leave you with the last shot is on coaching. BUT... our score and time awareness from a veteran group of Brown, Hunter, Baker, Wilson, and Roderick (18 combined seasons as D1 scholarship basketball players entering this season) was putrid. A coach should not have to remind that group to be mindful of time and score. Baker's foul at the end of regulation can only be explained by him not knowing the score was tied. Going for the ball and a tie-up would have been smart - I believe we had the arrow - but it sure didn't look like any attempt to do that whatsoever.

Clayton's insertion I figured was more for rebounding. Really squandered that possession with the rushed three point shot.

Should have called timeout on the play where Hunter went down to the floor with the ball and tried to get back up and was rightfully called for traveling. I think we had two left at that point.
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shabamon
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  Message Not Read  RE: End Of Game Execution: Michigan
   Posted: 11/21/2022 11:49:20 AM 
Oh how about this? Have we not learned anything about end of half defense from the Illinois game? If the offense has to inbound from the backcourt and only has time to go the length and get one shot off, why are we not zone pressing that? Make the offense overhand pass from the backcourt while the clock is running, get the ball out of someone's dribble, force the ball to go somewhere inconvenient and maybe give yourself a chance to intercept the pass. Three seconds and Michigan was able to close the first half with a dribble to half court and pass to Dickinson for a made three.
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FJC31
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  Message Not Read  RE: End Of Game Execution: Michigan
   Posted: 11/21/2022 12:11:51 PM 
I agree with all your points other than Michigan losing first round in the NCAA tournament. I’ll be surprised if they make it. I think Big10 play is going to be rough for them; there’s not much to like outside Dickinson.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: End Of Game Execution: Michigan
   Posted: 11/21/2022 12:12:07 PM 
Yes, very ugly execution. Hard to parse out what's coaching and what's on the players, but could've won this one.

Biggest mistakes:

1) the tie game possession with 1 minute on the clock. It's inexcusable to not get a shot off after a time out, and to give up a 2 for 1 opportunity and still not get a shot off makes it even worse. If you're going to run the clock, you need to run it for a great look. Otherwise, go 2 for 1.

2) Baker's foul was just dumb. We got lucky that it didn't cost us the game.


As an aside, we really struggle to create shots. There's nobody on the team who seems capable of creating for themselves consistently -- at least not last night. We're going to miss Sears an awful lot, I think.
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Andrew Ruck
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  Message Not Read  RE: End Of Game Execution: Michigan
   Posted: 11/21/2022 12:28:24 PM 
FearLeon wrote:

Holy crap...did we send these at the same time? Never saw yours. Great post.


I mean I don't want to brag but it was a full 2 hours before your post.


Andrew Ruck
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OUs LONG Driver
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  Message Not Read  RE: End Of Game Execution: Michigan
   Posted: 11/21/2022 12:39:15 PM 
Agree with most of the comments. The loss isn't the things that bothers me, it was the complete lack of situational awareness by multiple players and coach. Haven't seen this one mentioned...why in the world is Boals taking a timeout with 1 minute left in OT after we actually scored with Wilson's hoop and the harm. It was our only timeout. Sure would have been nice to have the chance to settle back down late in game or draw up an ATO.

Another one that puzzled me...down 2 DW3 gets an offensive board and kicks it out? Put that thing in big fella!

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100%Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: End Of Game Execution: Michigan
   Posted: 11/21/2022 12:40:28 PM 
I haven't seen it mentioned, but I do believe (since I was there) that the crowd gave Michigan a big advantage late. That place had been quiet almost the entire night until that last 3ish minutes of regulation and OT. Then, that place was LOUD. We seemed to struggle mightily executing in that environment.
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FearLeon
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  Message Not Read  RE: End Of Game Execution: Michigan
   Posted: 11/21/2022 1:36:49 PM 
Andrew Ruck wrote:
FearLeon wrote:

Holy crap...did we send these at the same time? Never saw yours. Great post.


I mean I don't want to brag but it was a full 2 hours before your post.


You can brag. Great minds think alike…haha.


#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

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greencat
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  Message Not Read  RE: End Of Game Execution: Michigan
   Posted: 11/21/2022 2:28:29 PM 
It looked nobody wanted to step up and take the big shot on late critical possessions. That is why I think Clayton should have been in the game. No body how many bricks he launch up to that point... he showed at Belmont there was no fear of taking a huge shot. I was sitting in that end zone in a folding chair with a perfect look at Belmont that night and Clayton was cool, calm, collected. No fear in his eyes or on his face.
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Andrew Ruck
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  Message Not Read  RE: End Of Game Execution: Michigan
   Posted: 11/21/2022 3:43:46 PM 
I don't see Hunter or Baker as being unwilling to take a shot at all. Far from it. It is important to acknowledge that sometimes it isn't your night. Also is important to remember each shot is not created equally. I'm just not sure someone who hasn't been close in like 10 shots so far that night should be taking early shot clock contested shots.


Andrew Ruck
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Bobcat1998
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  Message Not Read  RE: End Of Game Execution: Michigan
   Posted: 11/21/2022 3:57:14 PM 
Andrew Ruck wrote:
I don't see Hunter or Baker as being unwilling to take a shot at all. Far from it. It is important to acknowledge that sometimes it isn't your night. Also is important to remember each shot is not created equally. I'm just not sure someone who hasn't been close in like 10 shots so far that night should be taking early shot clock contested shots.


Losing the way we did definitely stunk but I am amazed at all the haters on this board. These are guys who, while some being veterans, are still finding their way. Baker was "the man" at UNC-Asheville and then was in a more competitive league with Tulane and now he's on his 3rd team trying to fit in. I will forgive him for fouling. AJ Clayton is still only 18 years old and for rushing a shot, I will forgive him. Some of us forget that BVP wasn't the current BVP right away either. I loved the fight of these young men and while it wasn't pretty at the end, we always talk about responding to adversity and after the way we lost at Detroit, I'll take an OT loss by 4 at Michigan. I still believe that we are the team to beat in the MAC.
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El Gato Roberto
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  Message Not Read  RE: End Of Game Execution: Michigan
   Posted: 11/21/2022 8:04:37 PM 
Bobcat1998 wrote:
Andrew Ruck wrote:
I don't see Hunter or Baker as being unwilling to take a shot at all. Far from it. It is important to acknowledge that sometimes it isn't your night. Also is important to remember each shot is not created equally. I'm just not sure someone who hasn't been close in like 10 shots so far that night should be taking early shot clock contested shots.


Losing the way we did definitely stunk but I am amazed at all the haters on this board. These are guys who, while some being veterans, are still finding their way. Baker was "the man" at UNC-Asheville and then was in a more competitive league with Tulane and now he's on his 3rd team trying to fit in. I will forgive him for fouling. AJ Clayton is still only 18 years old and for rushing a shot, I will forgive him. Some of us forget that BVP wasn't the current BVP right away either. I loved the fight of these young men and while it wasn't pretty at the end, we always talk about responding to adversity and after the way we lost at Detroit, I'll take an OT loss by 4 at Michigan. I still believe that we are the team to beat in the MAC.


I don’t know if “we’re the team to beat”…but I do appreciate the fight in this team. Did they execute well in OT, yesterday. I’d bet the coaches would agree with everyone who watched and agree that we have some work to do. This is not a perfect team, but I am impressed with their heart and I am here for it. I see them continuing to jell and being a lot of fun to watch.



"The name's Ohio University, but everybody calls me Ohio. Any of you guys call me Ohio U, and I'll kill you."

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Victory
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  Message Not Read  RE: End Of Game Execution: Michigan
   Posted: 11/21/2022 9:00:24 PM 
Bobcat1998 wrote:
I still believe that we are the team to beat in the MAC.


I would not have said that Ohio was the team to beat in the East 5 games into the football season so things can change but I don't see this at all. We were struggling mightily on defense in football but the difference in that and basketball is that nobody in the football MAC looked all that great while the Toledo and Kent St. basketball teams continue to exist. OUr defense made a sudden sustained improvement in the football game against WMU. If the basketball team can sustain their level from yesterday then we have a shot.
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oubobcatjohn
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  Message Not Read  RE: End Of Game Execution: Michigan
   Posted: 11/22/2022 12:17:50 AM 
Overall we played a great game. Solid defense, few turnovers. Team fought hard. The team choked at the end. The poor foul shooting hurt us in a close game. I think we are middle of the pack in the MAC. Bench is terrible. That is what non-conference is for to find a bench. Starters are good by MAC standards. The bench needs to step it up a lot. Poor decision late. We don't have a Preston, Sears or DJ Cooper type yet that we want to take that last shot. Some of these guys haven't played in late game situations. DWIII looked great. He showed he had more offensive skills. Think we found our identity. Feed the big man inside.
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spongeBOB CATpants
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  Message Not Read  RE: End Of Game Execution: Michigan
   Posted: 11/23/2022 12:07:03 PM 
Toledo and Kent are the teams to beat, no question. Akron will always be there and don't sleep on Eastern. They played much better than we did against the Wolverines.
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: End Of Game Execution: Michigan
   Posted: 11/23/2022 12:50:47 PM 
spongeBOB CATpants wrote:
. . . [EMU] played much better than we did against the Wolverines.


How can you say that? We took the Weasels into OT. EMU didn't.


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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