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Topic:  RE: Goodbye Scott Quad...

Topic:  RE: Goodbye Scott Quad...
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Goodbye Scott Quad...
   Posted: 7/19/2022 10:26:19 AM 
Mike Johnson wrote:
giacomo wrote:
Iíve seen many such things in my day. I think it boils down to being a caretaker to the older and historic structures versus being or trying to be an inventor of something new. Our country wants to be an innovator, not a caretaker, so it mows down these structures and builds something new to strut like a peacock.


Too true. Last week when I was in Ribeauville, France, a new roof - red-tiled - was replacing the original tiles on the roof of the village hall - built in 1764. Virtually every building in the village has a red-tiled roof, and those tiles are expected to last for at least 200 years. The home of my friends Christophe and Laura was built in 1513, and most of the roof tiles are originals (back in 2015, they converted one end of their house into a 2-story apartment which required new tiles). Here in the States? Most homes have roofs that are expected to last all of 20 years. I do see more metal roofs; how long are they expected to last?

I don't see residents of that village and others strutting like peacocks, but I do see a quiet pride - that shows in the flower boxes below virtually every window.


+1 Agree with both of you on these points.


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Goodbye Scott Quad...
   Posted: 7/19/2022 10:45:40 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:
. . .

The tile system you mentioned is great.
So is slate.
But,a number homes' roofs can't support the weight,especially with "snow load.


Most the older homes in Athens originally had slate roofs, some still do. Around the 1960s it was hard to find people with the skills to repair a slate roof, so many people had their slate roofs torn out and put on asphalt shingles as a replacment. This was very short-sighted -- replacing something that would last hundreds of years with proper maintenance with something that would last 20+ years. Fortunately, now I see homes that still have slate roofs being repaired rather than replaced. So, we are making some progress,

As an aside, if the OHIO Board of Trustees was in charge of D.C., they'd be tearing down the Jefferson and George Mason memorials because they are not in pedestrian flow along the national mall.


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Goodbye Scott Quad...
   Posted: 7/19/2022 12:12:29 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:

Around the 1960s it was hard to find people with the skills to repair a slate roof,



Finding people to repair slate roofs is a major problem out here.

We have a number of historic houses with slate roofs.

Unfortunately, a lot of roofers think repairing a slate roof means "globbing" on some roofing cement and pushing the slate into it.

Last Edited: 7/19/2022 12:12:54 PM by rpbobcat

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Goodbye Scott Quad...
   Posted: 7/19/2022 12:35:53 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:

As an aside, if the OHIO Board of Trustees was in charge of D.C., they'd be tearing down the Jefferson and George Mason memorials because they are not in pedestrian flow along the national mall.



And were you in charge, nothing would ever be built because you'd insist that a Civil War Soldier once walked across a patch of land that would otherwise be affordable housing.

Look at this building: https://www.filepicker.io/api/file/TfpLFq48RXKqHOoNGFtK

It's not been compared in this thread to the Jefferson Memorial and the Colosseum.

It's a red brick rectangle with a nice enough courtyard. As I said, I understand the argument that repurposing could be a smarter financial decision. But the idea that Scott Quad's somehow central to the character of Ohio University and it's malpractice by the Administration to replace it just feels like a bunch of folks mistaking nostalgia for history.

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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Goodbye Scott Quad...
   Posted: 7/19/2022 2:12:15 PM 
Itís not a matter of one building, itís a half-century history of tear down first, and ask questions later. A number of these have been mentioned in this thread, but not all. A friend of mine compiled the complete lists. Iíll see if I can find it. To me itís mind boggling.

Last Edited: 7/19/2022 2:12:43 PM by OhioCatFan


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Goodbye Scott Quad...
   Posted: 7/19/2022 3:25:49 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
Itís not a matter of one building, itís a half-century history of tear down first, and ask questions later. A number of these have been mentioned in this thread, but not all. A friend of mine compiled the complete lists. Iíll see if I can find it. To me itís mind boggling.


I doubt my mind will be boggled.
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Goodbye Scott Quad...
   Posted: 7/19/2022 4:44:18 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Itís not a matter of one building, itís a half-century history of tear down first, and ask questions later. A number of these have been mentioned in this thread, but not all. A friend of mine compiled the complete lists. Iíll see if I can find it. To me itís mind boggling.


I doubt my mind will be boggled.


Well, maybe your mind isn't easily boggled. However, try this one on for size -- In the 1960s Ohio University bought and then tore down the Berry Hotel, which was built and owned by a local African American business man. It was located where the Court Street Diner (now has a new name I can't remember) is located. The community has since put up an historical marker there and a student recently developed a virtual realty gizmo where you can stand across the street and look in the direction of the Berry Hotel and see what it used to look like. I submit, it would be better to actually have rehabed the builing and have real thing on that site. You might disagree, and think the diner is more modern, utilitarian, and appeals to the younger crowd. Oh, and by the way, Civil War veterans once stayed at that hotel, and one is rumored to have advanced Berry the money when he built the hotel!

Last Edited: 7/19/2022 4:45:02 PM by OhioCatFan


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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giacomo
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  Message Not Read  RE: Goodbye Scott Quad...
   Posted: 7/19/2022 5:26:05 PM 
I'd love it if the Berry was still there. That's what gives a place like Athens character. Is Chipotle still at the Varsity Theater location? Kind of sad, but at least they didn't knock it down.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Goodbye Scott Quad...
   Posted: 7/20/2022 8:37:18 AM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Itís not a matter of one building, itís a half-century history of tear down first, and ask questions later. A number of these have been mentioned in this thread, but not all. A friend of mine compiled the complete lists. Iíll see if I can find it. To me itís mind boggling.


I doubt my mind will be boggled.


Well, maybe your mind isn't easily boggled. However, try this one on for size -- In the 1960s Ohio University bought and then tore down the Berry Hotel, which was built and owned by a local African American business man. It was located where the Court Street Diner (now has a new name I can't remember) is located. The community has since put up an historical marker there and a student recently developed a virtual realty gizmo where you can stand across the street and look in the direction of the Berry Hotel and see what it used to look like. I submit, it would be better to actually have rehabed the builing and have real thing on that site. You might disagree, and think the diner is more modern, utilitarian, and appeals to the younger crowd. Oh, and by the way, Civil War veterans once stayed at that hotel, and one is rumored to have advanced Berry the money when he built the hotel!


Yeah, sorry. Mind's not boggled. The original owner/builder of the Berry Hotel had sold it in 1921 -- 50 years before the University tore it down. In the interim, another hotelier ran it, resurfaced the outside, and ultimately ran it into the ground. The University did repurpose the building, turning it into dorms. But as enrollment declined, so did the need for the building as a dorm.

With the benefit of hindsight, would it be nice to have a historic hotel on Court Street? Sure. But it had failed as a hotel, and I'm not sure how one justifies a plan for a University with declining enrollment that boils down to "maintain a financial liability indefinitely in case it's needed in the future."


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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Goodbye Scott Quad...
   Posted: 7/20/2022 8:57:43 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:


This is going to sound like semantics, but I used the word "area" for a reason.

Most of the Urban Renewal/ Redevelopment projects I've designed are several "street blocks", within one municipality.

They are not large "regional projects".
Those are much more involved when it comes to what stays and what goes.
(see politics)

" Character" is a primary driving force in designing a renewal.

The things you stated do carry some weight.

But the people in the area where the renewal project is proposed are very particular about their "neighborhood" and they carry a lot of weight.


Broadly speaking, I think this is a bad thing and has had a negative impact on American dynamism. NIMBYism is one of the core reasons why building in the US is much harder than in other Western Countries, and neighborhood associations, home owner associations, environmental groups, have far too much influence over what gets built.





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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Goodbye Scott Quad...
   Posted: 7/20/2022 11:43:00 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:


This is going to sound like semantics, but I used the word "area" for a reason.

Most of the Urban Renewal/ Redevelopment projects I've designed are several "street blocks", within one municipality.

They are not large "regional projects".
Those are much more involved when it comes to what stays and what goes.
(see politics)

" Character" is a primary driving force in designing a renewal.

The things you stated do carry some weight.

But the people in the area where the renewal project is proposed are very particular about their "neighborhood" and they carry a lot of weight.


Broadly speaking, I think this is a bad thing and has had a negative impact on American dynamism. NIMBYism is one of the core reasons why building in the US is much harder than in other Western Countries, and neighborhood associations, home owner associations, environmental groups, have far too much influence over what gets built.



First off, if you "quoted" my entire post, people could see that it provides the perspective for what I said.

NIMBY, (not in my back yard), for those who may not know the acronym doesn't apply.

I was talking about existing structures that were preserved, including moving them to an alternate location.
People weren't opposed to the Urban Renewal projects.
They just wanted to assure certain structures, which were historic, or the people in the area considered intrinsic, were preserved.
Even if that meant moving them.

Last Edited: 7/20/2022 11:45:30 AM by rpbobcat

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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Goodbye Scott Quad...
   Posted: 7/20/2022 12:26:24 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Itís not a matter of one building, itís a half-century history of tear down first, and ask questions later. A number of these have been mentioned in this thread, but not all. A friend of mine compiled the complete lists. Iíll see if I can find it. To me itís mind boggling.


I doubt my mind will be boggled.


Well, maybe your mind isn't easily boggled. However, try this one on for size -- In the 1960s Ohio University bought and then tore down the Berry Hotel, which was built and owned by a local African American business man. It was located where the Court Street Diner (now has a new name I can't remember) is located. The community has since put up an historical marker there and a student recently developed a virtual realty gizmo where you can stand across the street and look in the direction of the Berry Hotel and see what it used to look like. I submit, it would be better to actually have rehabed the builing and have real thing on that site. You might disagree, and think the diner is more modern, utilitarian, and appeals to the younger crowd. Oh, and by the way, Civil War veterans once stayed at that hotel, and one is rumored to have advanced Berry the money when he built the hotel!


Yeah, sorry. Mind's not boggled. The original owner/builder of the Berry Hotel had sold it in 1921 -- 50 years before the University tore it down. In the interim, another hotelier ran it, resurfaced the outside, and ultimately ran it into the ground. The University did repurpose the building, turning it into dorms. But as enrollment declined, so did the need for the building as a dorm.

With the benefit of hindsight, would it be nice to have a historic hotel on Court Street? Sure. But it had failed as a hotel, and I'm not sure how one justifies a plan for a University with declining enrollment that boils down to "maintain a financial liability indefinitely in case it's needed in the future."




I can see that here, as on so many other topics, the underlying axioms upon which your reasoning is based are polar opposites of my own. But, to the case in point, given the very historic nature of the Berry Hotel the university could have made efforts to have an historic preservation group purchase it. They could have gotten creative. The options were not limited to keep ownership of it, or tear it down.

I know a little about the mindset of the administration at that time, and they had no historic sense at all. About a decade before the Berry was torn down, an upper-level university administrator (whose name shall be withheld here to protect the guilty) had his office moved to McGuffey Hall. In a closet in that office were a bunch of boxes -- stacked to the ceiling -- containing the transcripts of Ohio University students for much of 19th Century. Said administrator took a look at them, and said, "All of these students are probably dead, so these are of no use." He then had them pitched in the trash. They are now under a mound somewhere in the Athens garbage dump. As a result the university now has no transcripts of students for most of the 19th Century, including future governors, cabinet secretaries, an editor of the NYT, etc. They have been able to reconstruct some information because the archives does have some old grade books, but much valuable information is now lost. This administrator was still on the job at the time the Berry Hotel was torn down.

For the record, in this case, the university technically didn't tear down the Berry Hotel. They sold it to the city and let the city do the dirty work. But, they sold it to the city knowing the city planned to tear it down and put up a parking lot. I'm sure this reminds my buddy giacomo of a song!

Last Edited: 7/21/2022 8:09:56 PM by OhioCatFan


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Goodbye Scott Quad...
   Posted: 7/20/2022 12:27:54 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:


This is going to sound like semantics, but I used the word "area" for a reason.

Most of the Urban Renewal/ Redevelopment projects I've designed are several "street blocks", within one municipality.

They are not large "regional projects".
Those are much more involved when it comes to what stays and what goes.
(see politics)

" Character" is a primary driving force in designing a renewal.

The things you stated do carry some weight.

But the people in the area where the renewal project is proposed are very particular about their "neighborhood" and they carry a lot of weight.


Broadly speaking, I think this is a bad thing and has had a negative impact on American dynamism. NIMBYism is one of the core reasons why building in the US is much harder than in other Western Countries, and neighborhood associations, home owner associations, environmental groups, have far too much influence over what gets built.



First off, if you "quoted" my entire post, people could see that it provides the perspective for what I said.

NIMBY, (not in my back yard), for those who may not know the acronym doesn't apply.

I was talking about existing structures that were preserved, including moving them to an alternate location.
People weren't opposed to the Urban Renewal projects.
They just wanted to assure certain structures, which were historic, or the people in the area considered intrinsic, were preserved.
Even if that meant moving them.



I quoted the part of your post that does seem relevant to NIMBYism; namely that people who are particular about their own neighborhoods exert a lot of influence. Yes, it shows itself in buildings like churches being moved. But that also shows itself in much more damaging ways. Neighborhood associations have the ability to make building much harder, and they do so.
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Goodbye Scott Quad...
   Posted: 7/20/2022 3:00:09 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:


I quoted the part of your post that does seem relevant to NIMBYism; namely that people who are particular about their own neighborhoods exert a lot of influence. Yes, it shows itself in buildings like churches being moved. But that also shows itself in much more damaging ways. Neighborhood associations have the ability to make building much harder, and they do so.


NIMBY implies people in the area where the project is located, were opposed to it.

As I posted, that wasn't the case with the Urban Renewal Projects I designed.

The people in the project areas just wanted to be sure that certain structures preserved, even if they had to be moved.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Goodbye Scott Quad...
   Posted: 7/22/2022 9:31:59 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:


I quoted the part of your post that does seem relevant to NIMBYism; namely that people who are particular about their own neighborhoods exert a lot of influence. Yes, it shows itself in buildings like churches being moved. But that also shows itself in much more damaging ways. Neighborhood associations have the ability to make building much harder, and they do so.


NIMBY implies people in the area where the project is located, were opposed to it.

As I posted, that wasn't the case with the Urban Renewal Projects I designed.

The people in the project areas just wanted to be sure that certain structures preserved, even if they had to be moved.


Feels like two sides of the same coin, to me. They may not have been opposed to the outcome in this particular case, but that they have the ability to influence projects is NIMBYism and that's had a profound impact on America's ability to build. That the conditions they set in your case were met doesn't change the fact that often times the conditions aren't met.

The US has a massive housing shortage. Something approaching 4 million homes, which drives up the price of housing for everybody. Zoning laws make it hard to work around this, and variance permits are almost always protested by homeowners associations in the area. Look at what happens when people try and build multi-unit homes (and god forbid you try and make them affordable), or wind turbines, or public transit infrastructure.

NIMBYism has become a guiding principle in the US. It's one of the many reasons we're falling behind.
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Goodbye Scott Quad...
   Posted: 7/22/2022 10:23:51 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:


Feels like two sides of the same coin, to me. They may not have been opposed to the outcome in this particular case, but that they have the ability to influence projects is NIMBYism and that's had a profound impact on America's ability to build. That the conditions they set in your case were met doesn't change the fact that often times the conditions aren't met.


So are you saying that people who live in the area, where an Urban Renewal project is proposed, shouldn't have a say in the project ?

And trust me, people living in area where the Urban Renewal project is located, will make sure all conditions are met.

Quote:


The US has a massive housing shortage. Something approaching 4 million homes, which drives up the price of housing for everybody. Zoning laws make it hard to work around this, and variance permits are almost always protested by homeowners associations in the area. Look at what happens when people try and build multi-unit homes (and god forbid you try and make them affordable), or wind turbines, or public transit infrastructure.

NIMBYism has become a guiding principle in the US. It's one of the many reasons we're falling behind.


The Urban Renewal projects I design are pretty much all "mixed use" (retail and residential)

In NJ any residential project must set aside a % of the units for "low income" and "moderate income" .

I really don't think its possible, for a number of reasons, to try to put wind turbines in a urban area.

As far as Public Transit Infrastructure, NJ has that pretty well covered with
bus and rail.

Since, as I said, the Urban Renewal projects I design a are a few blocks in one
municipality, the Public Transit is there.



Last Edited: 7/22/2022 10:24:55 AM by rpbobcat

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Mike Johnson
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  Message Not Read  RE: Goodbye Scott Quad...
   Posted: 7/22/2022 10:43:48 AM 
A couple months or so ago, an idea came to mind that had its origins in Warsaw. The 1943 Ghetto Uprising failed, largely for lack of arms. But the August 1944 Home Army (Resistance) Uprising had the arms and determination to prove Himler wrong. He had told Hitler it would be crushed in 2 days. It took more than 2 months and only after Himler ordered in more tanks and Stuka dive bombers.

Hitler was so irate that he ordered Warsaw leveled, and about 80 percent was. That included Warsaw's Old Town. Imaginatively, after the War, Poland rebuilt Old Town, using photos as it appeared pre-war AND the rubble from its destruction. (Yes, when I visited in 2007, the uninformed would never have guessed that they were looking at an entirely rebuilt Old Town.)

So, a couple months ago I had a lengthy zoom chat with an OU staffer responsible for providing recommendations on campus appearance. I advanced the following:
* Raze all of Scott Quad except for the facade including its gateway.
* Use the rubble or some of it in building the Ohio University History Museum.
* The museum wouldn't be as large as Scott Quad, but it would be large enough to hold an impressive array of OU memorabilia. (OU has plenty of that.)
* It would serve as a magnet to potential students and their parents and to alumni when visiting campus.

She was enthused by the idea which she asked me to articulate in an email and send it to her and President Sherman. I did. I did not hear back from him.

Last Edited: 7/22/2022 10:44:37 AM by Mike Johnson


http://www.facebook.com/mikejohnson.author

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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Goodbye Scott Quad...
   Posted: 7/22/2022 11:27:55 AM 
Mike Johnson wrote:

So, a couple months ago I had a lengthy zoom chat with an OU staffer responsible for providing recommendations on campus appearance. I advanced the following:
* Raze all of Scott Quad except for the facade including its gateway.
* Use the rubble or some of it in building the Ohio University History Museum.
* The museum wouldn't be as large as Scott Quad, but it would be large enough to hold an impressive array of OU memorabilia. (OU has plenty of that.)
* It would serve as a magnet to potential students and their parents and to alumni when visiting campus.

She was enthused by the idea which she asked me to articulate in an email and send it to her and President Sherman. I did. I did not hear back from him.


Great idea.

Incorporate preservation with practicality.

No wonder O.U. didn't do it. :-)

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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Goodbye Scott Quad...
   Posted: 7/22/2022 5:02:22 PM 
Mike Johnson wrote:
. . .
She was enthused by the idea which she asked me to articulate in an email and send it to her and President Sherman. I did. I did not hear back from him.


Unfortunately, this is becoming the standard MO for recent university administrations. Oh for the days of Bob Glidden when you could send him an email and get a quick response, often within minutes.

Last Edited: 7/22/2022 5:02:37 PM by OhioCatFan


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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giacomo
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  Message Not Read  RE: Goodbye Scott Quad...
   Posted: 7/23/2022 4:35:53 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Itís not a matter of one building, itís a half-century history of tear down first, and ask questions later. A number of these have been mentioned in this thread, but not all. A friend of mine compiled the complete lists. Iíll see if I can find it. To me itís mind boggling.


I doubt my mind will be boggled.


Well, maybe your mind isn't easily boggled. However, try this one on for size -- In the 1960s Ohio University bought and then tore down the Berry Hotel, which was built and owned by a local African American business man. It was located where the Court Street Diner (now has a new name I can't remember) is located. The community has since put up an historical marker there and a student recently developed a virtual realty gizmo where you can stand across the street and look in the direction of the Berry Hotel and see what it used to look like. I submit, it would be better to actually have rehabed the builing and have real thing on that site. You might disagree, and think the diner is more modern, utilitarian, and appeals to the younger crowd. Oh, and by the way, Civil War veterans once stayed at that hotel, and one is rumored to have advanced Berry the money when he built the hotel!


Yeah, sorry. Mind's not boggled. The original owner/builder of the Berry Hotel had sold it in 1921 -- 50 years before the University tore it down. In the interim, another hotelier ran it, resurfaced the outside, and ultimately ran it into the ground. The University did repurpose the building, turning it into dorms. But as enrollment declined, so did the need for the building as a dorm.

With the benefit of hindsight, would it be nice to have a historic hotel on Court Street? Sure. But it had failed as a hotel, and I'm not sure how one justifies a plan for a University with declining enrollment that boils down to "maintain a financial liability indefinitely in case it's needed in the future."




I can see that here, as on so many other topics, the underlying axioms upon which your reasoning is based are polar opposites of my own. But, to the case in point, given the very historic nature of the Berry Hotel the university could have made efforts to have an historic preservation group purchase it. They could have gotten creative. The options were not limited to keep ownership of it, or tear it down.

I know a little about the mindset of the administration at that time, and they had no historic sense at all. About a decade before the Berry was torn down, an upper-level university administrator (whose name shall be withheld here to protect the guilty) had his office moved to McGuffey Hall. In a closet in that office were a bunch of boxes -- stacked to the ceiling -- containing the transcripts of Ohio University students for much of 19th Century. Said administrator took a look at them, and said, "All of these students are probably dead, so these are of no use." He then had them pitched in the trash. They are now under a mound somewhere in the Athens garbage dump. As a result the university now has no transcripts of students for most of the 19th Century, including future governors, cabinet secretaries, an editor of the NYT, etc. They have been able to reconstruct some information because the archives does have some old grade books, but much valuable information is now lost. This administrator was still on the job at the time the Berry Hotel was torn down.

For the record, in this case, the university technically didn't tear down the Berry Hotel. They sold it to the city and let the city do the dirty work. But, they sold it to the city knowing the city planned to tear it down and put up a parking lot. I'm sure this reminds my buddy giacomo of a song!


They paved paradise
Put up a parking lot

Joni Mitchell
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CatsUp
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Member Since: 4/15/2019
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  Message Not Read  RE: Goodbye Scott Quad...
   Posted: 7/23/2022 6:39:24 PM 
giacomo wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Itís not a matter of one building, itís a half-century history of tear down first, and ask questions later. A number of these have been mentioned in this thread, but not all. A friend of mine compiled the complete lists. Iíll see if I can find it. To me itís mind boggling.


I doubt my mind will be boggled.


Well, maybe your mind isn't easily boggled. However, try this one on for size -- In the 1960s Ohio University bought and then tore down the Berry Hotel, which was built and owned by a local African American business man. It was located where the Court Street Diner (now has a new name I can't remember) is located. The community has since put up an historical marker there and a student recently developed a virtual realty gizmo where you can stand across the street and look in the direction of the Berry Hotel and see what it used to look like. I submit, it would be better to actually have rehabed the builing and have real thing on that site. You might disagree, and think the diner is more modern, utilitarian, and appeals to the younger crowd. Oh, and by the way, Civil War veterans once stayed at that hotel, and one is rumored to have advanced Berry the money when he built the hotel!


Yeah, sorry. Mind's not boggled. The original owner/builder of the Berry Hotel had sold it in 1921 -- 50 years before the University tore it down. In the interim, another hotelier ran it, resurfaced the outside, and ultimately ran it into the ground. The University did repurpose the building, turning it into dorms. But as enrollment declined, so did the need for the building as a dorm.

With the benefit of hindsight, would it be nice to have a historic hotel on Court Street? Sure. But it had failed as a hotel, and I'm not sure how one justifies a plan for a University with declining enrollment that boils down to "maintain a financial liability indefinitely in case it's needed in the future."




I can see that here, as on so many other topics, the underlying axioms upon which your reasoning is based are polar opposites of my own. But, to the case in point, given the very historic nature of the Berry Hotel the university could have made efforts to have an historic preservation group purchase it. They could have gotten creative. The options were not limited to keep ownership of it, or tear it down.

I know a little about the mindset of the administration at that time, and they had no historic sense at all. About a decade before the Berry was torn down, an upper-level university administrator (whose name shall be withheld here to protect the guilty) had his office moved to McGuffey Hall. In a closet in that office were a bunch of boxes -- stacked to the ceiling -- containing the transcripts of Ohio University students for much of 19th Century. Said administrator took a look at them, and said, "All of these students are probably dead, so these are of no use." He then had them pitched in the trash. They are now under a mound somewhere in the Athens garbage dump. As a result the university now has no transcripts of students for most of the 19th Century, including future governors, cabinet secretaries, an editor of the NYT, etc. They have been able to reconstruct some information because the archives does have some old grade books, but much valuable information is now lost. This administrator was still on the job at the time the Berry Hotel was torn down.

For the record, in this case, the university technically didn't tear down the Berry Hotel. They sold it to the city and let the city do the dirty work. But, they sold it to the city knowing the city planned to tear it down and put up a parking lot. I'm sure this reminds my buddy giacomo of a song!


They paved paradise
Put up a parking lot

Joni Mitchell


I have fonder memories of the cover by the pop group Neighborhood. ďBubble gummishĒ, yes, but I canít help it. One doesnít have to be a musical snob all the time. ;)
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Campus Flow
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Location: Alexandria, VA
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  Message Not Read  RE: Goodbye Scott Quad...
   Posted: 8/6/2022 3:03:46 PM 
Mike Johnson wrote:

So, a couple months ago I had a lengthy zoom chat with an OU staffer responsible for providing recommendations on campus appearance. I advanced the following:
* Raze all of Scott Quad except for the facade including its gateway.
* Use the rubble or some of it in building the Ohio University History Museum.
* The museum wouldn't be as large as Scott Quad, but it would be large enough to hold an impressive array of OU memorabilia. (OU has plenty of that.)
* It would serve as a magnet to potential students and their parents and to alumni when visiting campus.

She was enthused by the idea which she asked me to articulate in an email and send it to her and President Sherman. I did. I did not hear back from him.


Would that memorabilia be served better an alumni center and have that as a starting point for conducting student tours of the university? Its important to have the right space for everything. A museum for the Convo inside a basketball practice facility could capture cultural history because it would include the big concert moments along with the sports moments as done in Madison Square Garden.


Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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