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Topic:  RE: The College Tour - Ohio University Athens

Topic:  RE: The College Tour - Ohio University Athens
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mf279801
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  Message Not Read  RE: The College Tour - Ohio University Athens
   Posted: 8/19/2022 6:11:19 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
mf279801 wrote:


My dad was a freshman (i think) for the flood of Ď68, living in on the ground floor of Lincoln hall. His favorite stories/recollections of the flood are
(1) waking up one morning and going to his window, looking UP at someone passing by (presumably in the street) in a boat
(2) at night, looking at the Front Four from the vicinity of Morton Hall: with the water and the lights on in the dorms, they looked like cruise ships at sea


I've seen pictures of desks put end to end from GAM to Shively so students could get across the street during floods.


Iíve seen those pictures too! I donít think i realized that they were desks but that makes sense!
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: The College Tour - Ohio University Athens
   Posted: 8/19/2022 11:20:10 PM 
My wife and I lived in the Married Student apartments on Mill Street when they first opened. This was the 1969-70 school year. They were working . . . sometimes both night and day . . . constructing the new Hocking River channel that year. It was quite a project. I have mixed emotions about it. While it did greatly reduce the flooding, it involved the destroying of a good deal of the most beautiful parts of the old asylum grounds, including the four ponds shaped like a suite of cards ó a spade, a club, a diamond and heart shaped pond ó where kids used to ice skate in the winter. Iíve always wondered if a slightly different route that didnít destroy these historic grounds might have been possible.


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: The College Tour - Ohio University Athens
   Posted: 8/22/2022 1:23:52 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
My wife and I lived in the Married Student apartments on Mill Street when they first opened. This was the 1969-70 school year. They were working . . . sometimes both night and day . . . constructing the new Hocking River channel that year. It was quite a project. I have mixed emotions about it. While it did greatly reduce the flooding, it involved the destroying of a good deal of the most beautiful parts of the old asylum grounds, including the four ponds shaped like a suite of cards ó a spade, a club, a diamond and heart shaped pond ó where kids used to ice skate in the winter. Iíve always wondered if a slightly different route that didnít destroy these historic grounds might have been possible.


I would be interested in where you would have re-routed the river?
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: The College Tour - Ohio University Athens
   Posted: 8/22/2022 1:54:05 PM 
What I find amazing is how fast they were able to get this project done.

Assuming the design was in place, you're talking only 3 years to go from design to completion, including acquiring any land they needed.

Today it would take 10 years just to do the Environmental Studies and secure the permits.

Last Edited: 8/22/2022 1:54:34 PM by rpbobcat

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: The College Tour - Ohio University Athens
   Posted: 8/22/2022 2:13:22 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
What I find amazing is how fast they were able to get this project done.

Assuming the design was in place, you're talking only 3 years to go from design to completion, including acquiring any land they needed.

Today it would take 10 years just to do the Environmental Studies and secure the permits.



God loves Nixon and the GOP, who brought us the EPA! Party of small government ;-)


In all seriousness, if you've never read this: https://www.athensnews.com/news/local/if-we-could-do-it-a...

Last Edited: 8/22/2022 2:15:25 PM by BillyTheCat

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: The College Tour - Ohio University Athens
   Posted: 8/22/2022 2:18:33 PM 
What baffles me, is how can the powers that be, claim 100 year flood stage as a reason for not building several things, yet, they can put buildings like Baker Center in the actual river bed, to which the natural water level would be the 2nd floor of the building. And the new edition to Stocker, abuts the river bed and is clearly inside the flood zone. Maybe you can answer that with better understanding than I currently possess.
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: The College Tour - Ohio University Athens
   Posted: 8/22/2022 3:34:29 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
What baffles me, is how can the powers that be, claim 100 year flood stage as a reason for not building several things, yet, they can put buildings like Baker Center in the actual river bed, to which the natural water level would be the 2nd floor of the building. And the new edition to Stocker, abuts the river bed and is clearly inside the flood zone. Maybe you can answer that with better understanding than I currently possess.


First off, that's a really interesting article.

Loved the photo's.

When they moved the Hocking, the hydraulics/hydrology of the river changed completely.

From a runoff/flooding perspective, the old river channel/bed became irrelevant.

If you look at the current FEMA FIRM Map you can see where the Floodway and 100 Year Flood Zone are, based on the relocated Hocking.

You can even pick out remnants of the old river bed.

The map shows just how far removed they are from a flood zone, based on the relocated river.

With the Hocking moved, water just can't get to the old river bed anymore.
So there's no issue building in it.

As I posted, you can build in a 100 year flood zone, under certain conditions.

In New Jersey, you are restricted by what is called "Zero Net Fill".

You also have to elevate a structure so the lowest "living" ("usable" for non-residential structures) space is a minimum of 1 foot above the 100 year flood elevation.

Any portion of building below that elevation, like a parking garage has to comply with other other restrictions.

There are also certain structures that must be "flood proofed".

The Article is correct, channel relocation is no longer the preferred method to alleviate flooding.
Not because of effectiveness, but other considerations, like land acquisition costs and environmental impact.

In NJ, changing the alignment (straightening) a channel is still widely used.

When it comes to flood alleviation, you have to walk a very fine line between
complying with any/all environmental requirements and effectively reducing flooding and flood damage.

One way New Jersey is dealing with this is by buying flood prone structures, demolishing them and restoring the flood plain.
They call it "Blue Acres".
Green Acres was already taken by a different program.








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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: The College Tour - Ohio University Athens
   Posted: 8/23/2022 12:08:48 AM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
My wife and I lived in the Married Student apartments on Mill Street when they first opened. This was the 1969-70 school year. They were working . . . sometimes both night and day . . . constructing the new Hocking River channel that year. It was quite a project. I have mixed emotions about it. While it did greatly reduce the flooding, it involved the destroying of a good deal of the most beautiful parts of the old asylum grounds, including the four ponds shaped like a suite of cards ó a spade, a club, a diamond and heart shaped pond ó where kids used to ice skate in the winter. Iíve always wondered if a slightly different route that didnít destroy these historic grounds might have been possible.


I would be interested in where you would have re-routed the river?


At the time there were alternate plans. I guess the published ones were more than ďslightly different.Ē Some would have had the river totally bypass Athens. In fact, I think there were two different plans that took the river totally out of Athens ó one to the north and one around the south of town. Each of these was considerably more expensive and required building massive cuts through the hills. But, hey, itís government money, and the way the Feds spend, one of these other plans would have certainly been possible.


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: The College Tour - Ohio University Athens
   Posted: 8/23/2022 8:48:51 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
What baffles me, is how can the powers that be, claim 100 year flood stage as a reason for not building several things, yet, they can put buildings like Baker Center in the actual river bed, to which the natural water level would be the 2nd floor of the building. And the new edition to Stocker, abuts the river bed and is clearly inside the flood zone. Maybe you can answer that with better understanding than I currently possess.


First off, that's a really interesting article.

Loved the photo's.

When they moved the Hocking, the hydraulics/hydrology of the river changed completely.

From a runoff/flooding perspective, the old river channel/bed became irrelevant.

If you look at the current FEMA FIRM Map you can see where the Floodway and 100 Year Flood Zone are, based on the relocated Hocking.

You can even pick out remnants of the old river bed.

The map shows just how far removed they are from a flood zone, based on the relocated river.

With the Hocking moved, water just can't get to the old river bed anymore.
So there's no issue building in it.

As I posted, you can build in a 100 year flood zone, under certain conditions.

In New Jersey, you are restricted by what is called "Zero Net Fill".

You also have to elevate a structure so the lowest "living" ("usable" for non-residential structures) space is a minimum of 1 foot above the 100 year flood elevation.

Any portion of building below that elevation, like a parking garage has to comply with other other restrictions.

There are also certain structures that must be "flood proofed".

The Article is correct, channel relocation is no longer the preferred method to alleviate flooding.
Not because of effectiveness, but other considerations, like land acquisition costs and environmental impact.

In NJ, changing the alignment (straightening) a channel is still widely used.

When it comes to flood alleviation, you have to walk a very fine line between
complying with any/all environmental requirements and effectively reducing flooding and flood damage.

One way New Jersey is dealing with this is by buying flood prone structures, demolishing them and restoring the flood plain.
They call it "Blue Acres".
Green Acres was already taken by a different program.










Thanks for your input, I still say (especially with your information) that the University largely does what it wants when and where it wants. Take Ping, Ping is squarely in the 100 year flood zone, it sits right on the old river bank and closer to the "new" river than any dorm on South Green. Yet, was built there, with usable ground floor space. It's closer to the river than any practice facility off the Convo that you could build, but what's the reason that has been given for not building/planning a practice facility off the Convo? 100 year flood plain.
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: The College Tour - Ohio University Athens
   Posted: 8/23/2022 9:17:47 AM 
BillyTheCat wrote:


Thanks for your input, I still say (especially with your information) that the University largely does what it wants when and where it wants. Take Ping, Ping is squarely in the 100 year flood zone, it sits right on the old river bank and closer to the "new" river than any dorm on South Green. Yet, was built there, with usable ground floor space. It's closer to the river than any practice facility off the Convo that you could build, but what's the reason that has been given for not building/planning a practice facility off the Convo? 100 year flood plain.


No question, based on the FEMA FIRM Map, Ping is in a Flood Zone.

But (you knew that was coming).

There is no way to tell from the FIRM Map ,the elevation of the ground floor of Ping.

So, even though the property is in a Flood Zone, the building may be compliant.

As far as I know, Ping has never gotten any water inside.

As I posted before, as far as I know, at least in NJ, to get a Certificate of Occupancy for a new structure, you have to provide what is known as an Elevation Certificate, signed and sealed by a Professional Land Surveyor.

That document shows if a structure is in compliance with FEMA and State requirements for building in a Flood Zone.

As far as a practice facility, "off" the Convo, I don't know any reason you
couldn't build one, presuming you comply with all regulations.

What I've always heard was that the logistics of how "high" above grade the practice facility would have to be, as well as required drainage, including what is known as "Storm Water Management" made building near the Convo impractical.

As I've posted, in my opinion, given that O.U won't be building a new Ice Rink any time soon, putting the Basketball Practice Facility in Punch Card Park
makes a lot of sense.









Last Edited: 8/23/2022 9:59:50 AM by rpbobcat

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: The College Tour - Ohio University Athens
   Posted: 8/23/2022 10:39:23 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:


Thanks for your input, I still say (especially with your information) that the University largely does what it wants when and where it wants. Take Ping, Ping is squarely in the 100 year flood zone, it sits right on the old river bank and closer to the "new" river than any dorm on South Green. Yet, was built there, with usable ground floor space. It's closer to the river than any practice facility off the Convo that you could build, but what's the reason that has been given for not building/planning a practice facility off the Convo? 100 year flood plain.


No question, based on the FEMA FIRM Map, Ping is in a Flood Zone.

But (you knew that was coming).

There is no way to tell from the FIRM Map ,the elevation of the ground floor of Ping.

So, even though the property is in a Flood Zone, the building may be compliant.

As far as I know, Ping has never gotten any water inside.

As I posted before, as far as I know, at least in NJ, to get a Certificate of Occupancy for a new structure, you have to provide what is known as an Elevation Certificate, signed and sealed by a Professional Land Surveyor.

That document shows if a structure is in compliance with FEMA and State requirements for building in a Flood Zone.

As far as a practice facility, "off" the Convo, I don't know any reason you
couldn't build one, presuming you comply with all regulations.

What I've always heard was that the logistics of how "high" above grade the practice facility would have to be, as well as required drainage, including what is known as "Storm Water Management" made building near the Convo impractical.

As I've posted, in my opinion, given that O.U won't be building a new Ice Rink any time soon, putting the Basketball Practice Facility in Punch Card Park
makes a lot of sense.











You'd put the practice facility on stilts like the Convo if you are connecting the two buildings. Otherwise you are filling in part of the moat around the Convocation Center. Again, they pick and choose their compliance. Ping was never elevated above the 100 year flood stage when it was built.
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: The College Tour - Ohio University Athens
   Posted: 8/23/2022 10:57:42 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:
. . . As I've posted, in my opinion, given that O.U won't be building a new Ice Rink any time soon, putting the Basketball Practice Facility in Punch Card Park makes a lot of sense.


You'd mess with that wonderful work of art by Athens own Presidential Medal of Freedom recipient?


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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Campus Flow
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  Message Not Read  RE: The College Tour - Ohio University Athens
   Posted: 8/23/2022 11:31:42 AM 
If I'm just counting the buildings since 1990 built in the 100 year flood plain this is what I have. The total list is 25 buildings.

Academic Research Center
Adams Hall
Baker Center
Carin Strength Training Center
Carr Hall
Chemistry Building
Chessa Field
Gold Course (expansion)
Golf and Tennis Facility
Grover Center (expansion)
Heritage Hall
Life Sciences Building
Luchs Hall
Medical Education Center
Peden Tower
Ping Center
Pruitt Field
Softball Complex
Sook Academic Center
Sowle Hall
Stocker Center (lower floor expansion)
Tanaka Hall
Walter Fieldhouse
Walter Hall
Wren Stadium

We get into these facility discussions and the old guard is visualizing campus as if 2-3 new buildings have gone down in the flood plain since The Convo and it would be great to have 1 museum in Athens when counting all the arts and history museums around town there are probably 10 of them.

OCF wants to close the Kennedy Museum and move it to Haning Hall. What they need to do is operate Haning as an annex of the Kennedy Center and tear down shoddy old RTEC to make it into a courtyard for the museum. Its not about only having 1 museum or 1 park in town like you have 1 ice rink for the community. The idea is to put as many museums and parks in as possible. The Convo as part of the basketball practice facility should have a history museum for itself.


Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: The College Tour - Ohio University Athens
   Posted: 8/23/2022 12:08:08 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:


You'd put the practice facility on stilts like the Convo if you are connecting the two buildings. Otherwise you are filling in part of the moat around the Convocation Center. Again, they pick and choose their compliance. Ping was never elevated above the 100 year flood stage when it was built.


Building on stilts has a significantly higher construction cost then "conventional" (on grade, natural ground or fill) ) construction, especially if you need piles, which I would think would be the case, anywhere near the Convo.

I have no idea how Ping was built.

But as I said, I don't know how O.U. could get a Certificate of Occupancy or, for that matter, Flood Insurance for Ping, without an Elevation Certificate showing compliance with FEMA and/ or Ohio Flood Zone Requirements.

Another little "quirk" with Flood Maps, they are prepared on a large scale (1"=1000').

Enlarging the picture doesn't change the accuracy of the map.

Flood Maps are intended to establish Flood Zones for "general areas" they are not intended to determine if an individual property or structure is in a Flood Zone.
In fact, FEMA is quite specific about that they are not to be used for that.

That can only be determined with an Elevation Certificate.

It is not uncommon that a property, shown on a Flood Map as being in a 100 year Flood Zone, isn't.

That is addressed with what is known as a Letter of Map Amendment or "LOMA".

If this comes off as complicated and convoluted, it is.

At least Ohio doesn't have to deal with Tidal Flood Zones, which are much worse.



Last Edited: 8/23/2022 12:12:40 PM by rpbobcat

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Campus Flow
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  Message Not Read  RE: The College Tour - Ohio University Athens
   Posted: 8/23/2022 12:12:55 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
. . . As I've posted, in my opinion, given that O.U won't be building a new Ice Rink any time soon, putting the Basketball Practice Facility in Punch Card Park makes a lot of sense.


You'd mess with that wonderful work of art by Athens own Presidential Medal of Freedom recipient?


There is no logic behind the old guard preservation movement either than preserve every building that you were physically present in on campus. Be a naysayer in anything new and do everything on the bare minimum dime. Go back to the gold standard and outlaw debt financing.

As it is Athens has 8 museums already. I agree Haning Hall would be good to support extra rotating collections from the Kennedy museum and the university should maximize whatever they are building to support athletics at The Convo.

Ohio Valley Museum of Discovery
Kennedy Museum of Art
Southeast Ohio History Center
ARTS West
Dairy Barn Arts Center
Ohio University Art Gallery
Ohio University Multicultural Center Gallery
Trisolini Gallery

https://athensohio.com/search/?geodir_search=1&stype=gd_t... =


Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: The College Tour - Ohio University Athens
   Posted: 8/23/2022 12:15:17 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:


You'd put the practice facility on stilts like the Convo if you are connecting the two buildings. Otherwise you are filling in part of the moat around the Convocation Center. Again, they pick and choose their compliance. Ping was never elevated above the 100 year flood stage when it was built.


Building on stilts has a significantly higher construction cost then "conventional" (on grade, natural ground or fill) ) construction, especially if you need piles, which I would think would be the case, anywhere near the Convo.

I have no idea how Ping was built.

But as I said, I don't know how O.U. could get a Certificate of Occupancy or, for that matter, Flood Insurance for Ping, without an Elevation Certificate showing compliance with FEMA and/ or Ohio Flood Zone Requirements.

Another little "quirk" with Flood Maps, they are prepared on a large scale (1"=1000').

Enlarging the picture doesn't change the accuracy of the map.

Flood Maps are intended to establish Flood Zones for "general areas" they are not intended to determine if an individual property or structure is in a Flood Zone.
In fact FEMA is quite specific about that they are not.

That can only be determined with an Elevation Certificate.

It is not uncommon that a property shown on a Flood Map as being in a 100 year Flood Zone isn't.

That is addressed wit what is known as a Letter of Map Amendment or "LOMA".

If this comes off as complicated and convoluted, it is.

At least Ohio doesn't have to deal with Tidal Flood Zones, which are much worse.





The University is self-insured, and does not need flood insurance. Sook Academic Center was built on stilts. New Dorms were basically built that way as well. Again, it comes down to the University can do what it wants, when it wants and basically how it wants. And I hope you realize that the average reader understands that building on stilts is more expensive. And to that point, when has money ever mattered to the world of Higher Ed?
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  Message Not Read  RE: The College Tour - Ohio University Athens
   Posted: 8/23/2022 12:34:18 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:


You'd put the practice facility on stilts like the Convo if you are connecting the two buildings. Otherwise you are filling in part of the moat around the Convocation Center. Again, they pick and choose their compliance. Ping was never elevated above the 100 year flood stage when it was built.


Building on stilts has a significantly higher construction cost then "conventional" (on grade, natural ground or fill) ) construction, especially if you need piles, which I would think would be the case, anywhere near the Convo.

I have no idea how Ping was built.

But as I said, I don't know how O.U. could get a Certificate of Occupancy or, for that matter, Flood Insurance for Ping, without an Elevation Certificate showing compliance with FEMA and/ or Ohio Flood Zone Requirements.


The fundamental argument then is cheapness. Cheapness on principal is a philosophy I can get for a young person with a 50 year horizon to try and gain a modicum of financial independence. But I hate it when older people won't vote for school levies if it costs a nickel in their pocket books and preventing the next generation from having anything.

This is not a community college where everything is done on a small shoe string state appropriation. This is a major state university that is building for the value add each time out.


Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: The College Tour - Ohio University Athens
   Posted: 8/23/2022 12:45:43 PM 
CF: Nope thatís not the logic at all. Iím all for tearing down the shoddily built New South dorms. Scott Quad was very well built. It would have lasted for centuries if properly maintained. Itís a total waste of resources to tear down and replace rather than renovate, especially when newer are often not as well constructed. Also, several of the buildings taken down recently were designed by very well-known architects. A friend of mine at the Southeast Ohio History Center has a list of buildings with very impressive pedigrees that the university has torn down. Hanning Hall was constructed by special act of Congress to honor retiring US Congressman Charles H. Grosvenor. Fortunately, the city is considering buying it to use as a municipal court building. That would save it from the university wrecking ball.


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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  Message Not Read  RE: The College Tour - Ohio University Athens
   Posted: 8/23/2022 1:14:40 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
CF: Nope thatís not the logic at all. Iím all for tearing down the shoddily built New South dorms. Scott Quad was very well built. It would have lasted for centuries if properly maintained. Itís a total waste of resources to tear down and replace rather than renovate, especially when newer are often not as well constructed. Also, several of the buildings taken down recently were designed by very well-known architects. A friend of mine at the Southeast Ohio History Center has a list of buildings with very impressive pedigrees that the university has torn down. Hanning Hall was constructed by special act of Congress to honor retiring US Congressman Charles H. Grosvenor. Fortunately, the city is considering buying it to use as a municipal court building. That would save it from the university wrecking ball.


The construction quality argument makes sense but do we have a registry of building codes to actually back up what is shoddy and what is not? The ROI on tear down vs. renovate for Scott Quad may have not been there. First responder access and traffic easements and other regulations and considerations add up. If the location of Scott Quad was across from Ellis Hall along the main campus square I think that would have also added to the appeal of renovating it.


Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: The College Tour - Ohio University Athens
   Posted: 8/23/2022 1:50:29 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:


The University is self-insured, and does not need flood insurance. Sook Academic Center was built on stilts. New Dorms were basically built that way as well. Again, it comes down to the University can do what it wants, when it wants and basically how it wants. And I hope you realize that the average reader understands that building on stilts is more expensive. And to that point, when has money ever mattered to the world of Higher Ed?


Semantics, but self- insured means you're not "required" to carry Flood Insurance, not that its not needed.

I just took a Continuing Education class on this, in relation to Elevation Certificates.

On person asked about whether, if you're self insured, you should carry Flood Insurance for a property in a Flood Zone

The Instructor, who wasn't an Insurance Representative ,said that ,self insured or not, if a property's Elevation Certificate shows its in a 100 year Flood Zone, get Flood Insurance.

There's no downside.

I don't disagree that the most people understand building on stilts is more expensive then on grade.

I don't think that the average person understands just how much.
Going up just 1 story on "stilts" can add up 50% to the structure's construction cost.
Plus, if you're using piles, its even more.

I do agree that,when it comes to Higher Education, schools , as the old saying goes, "spend like drunken sailors".


Last Edited: 8/23/2022 2:03:24 PM by rpbobcat

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: The College Tour - Ohio University Athens
   Posted: 8/23/2022 2:07:11 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:


The University is self-insured, and does not need flood insurance. Sook Academic Center was built on stilts. New Dorms were basically built that way as well. Again, it comes down to the University can do what it wants, when it wants and basically how it wants. And I hope you realize that the average reader understands that building on stilts is more expensive. And to that point, when has money ever mattered to the world of Higher Ed?


Semantics, but self- insured means you're not "required" to carry Flood Insurance, not that its not needed.

I just took a Continuing Education class on this, in relation to Elevation Certificates.

On person asked about whether, if you're self insured, you should carry Flood Insurance for a property in a Flood Zone

The Instructor, who wasn't an Insurance Representative ,said that ,self insured or not, if a property's Elevation Certificate shows its in a 100 year Flood Zone, get Flood Insurance.

There's no downside.

I don't disagree that the most people understand building on stilts is more expensive then on grade.

I don't think that the average person understands just how much.
Going up just 1 story on "stilts" can add up 50% to the structure's construction cost.
Plus, if you're using piles, its even more.

I do agree that,when it comes to Higher Education, schools , as the old saying goes, "spend like drunken sailors".




Interesting look at the buildings on campus that are in the flood plain, especially when looking at the number (very few) that are "raised" out of the flood plain. Essentially, 90% of campus is in the flood plain and not elevated out of the flood plain.

https://www.ohio.edu/policy/44-117

And again, look around campus, almost every building on West/South is elevated upon stilts, the Convo, Sook, all the dorms on New South, the back of West.

Last Edited: 8/23/2022 2:11:29 PM by BillyTheCat

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: The College Tour - Ohio University Athens
   Posted: 8/23/2022 2:09:55 PM 
RPBobcat,

Here is an interesting article, articulating exactly what I've been saying, when it comes to this issue the University simply does what it wants to do.

https://www.athensnews.com/news/local/city-again-in-the-m...
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: The College Tour - Ohio University Athens
   Posted: 8/23/2022 2:14:42 PM 
RPBobcat,

This line says it all: OHIO UNIVERSITY insist that it is EXEMPT from Flood Plain regulations.

This presents a dilemma for the city of Athens because OU insists that it's exempt from local flood-plain rules. Both the city and the state disagree, and the state has been pressuring Athens to crack down on OU.

In a letter to Athens Mayor Ric Abel on July 6, Michael Gease, senior environmental specialist with the state's Floodplain Management Program, stated that in the absence of any definite information demonstrating that OU is exempt from local flood rules, "it must be assumed that Ohio University is subject to local regulation, and any development activities that cannot be demonstrated in compliance must be assumed to be in violation."


Also, in this article OU Legal Counsel John Burns admits the university refused flood plain regulations on Grover Center.....Not much more that I need to know that confirms my comments that the University largely does what it wants to with their property.

Last Edited: 8/23/2022 2:19:16 PM by BillyTheCat

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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: The College Tour - Ohio University Athens
   Posted: 8/23/2022 2:18:52 PM 
Campus Flow wrote:


The construction quality argument makes sense but do we have a registry of building codes to actually back up what is shoddy and what is not?


"shoddy" is a tricky word.

Every building has to comply with the Construction Code at the time is built.

Thing is, complying with Code, means it only meets minimum standards.

It gives no indication of "quality".

The "in" thing today is "lightweight construction".

Its meets all current Code requirements, but they don't do well in a fire.

Most lightweight structures, especially multi family, are "sprinkled".

But, dirty little secret, all the sprinklers do is give people time to get out.
They do nothing to "save" a structure.

In fact, some these light weight" buildings are so "flimsy" ,we have to create "collapse zones" around them.

A masonry building like Scott Quad, if properly maintained is a much more "durable" structure then "lightweight" frame structures.









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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: The College Tour - Ohio University Athens
   Posted: 8/23/2022 2:39:36 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
RPBobcat,

This line says it all: OHIO UNIVERSITY insist that it is EXEMPT from Flood Plain regulations.

This presents a dilemma for the city of Athens because OU insists that it's exempt from local flood-plain rules. Both the city and the state disagree, and the state has been pressuring Athens to crack down on OU.

In a letter to Athens Mayor Ric Abel on July 6, Michael Gease, senior environmental specialist with the state's Floodplain Management Program, stated that in the absence of any definite information demonstrating that OU is exempt from local flood rules, "it must be assumed that Ohio University is subject to local regulation, and any development activities that cannot be demonstrated in compliance must be assumed to be in violation."


Also, in this article OU Legal Counsel John Burns admits the university refused flood plain regulations on Grover Center.....Not much more that I need to know that confirms my comments that the University largely does what it wants to with their property.


I asked a friend of mine, who is a Certified Flood Plain Manager about this.

She said she never heard of any entity being exempt from Flood Plain Rules.

Athens Code (Title 25) is pretty straightforward on this.
(Just google Athens Code and its right there)

Its very well written and thorough.

It sites Article XVIII ,Section 3 of the Ohio Constitution as the underlying authority.

Could have saved myself a lot of typing and just referenced the ordinance.

Kind of summarizes my last few posts.

Have no idea what O.U.'s rationale is for ignoring it or why Athens or the State are coming down hard on O.U.








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