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Topic:  RE: WKU / MTSU watch

Topic:  RE: WKU / MTSU watch
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: WKU / MTSU watch
   Posted: 11/10/2021 10:42:51 PM 
I really wish people would stop mentioning UMass or UConn as if they are viable options. The MAC doesn't want football only schools and UMass has already stated they're not leaving the A-10 in other sports. And good luck doing the same for UConn and the Big East.

NDSU ain't happening either. Do you guys realize how far that is? That is NOT in the MAC footprint at all and you guys whined about MTSU being far. Once again, they aren't coming for football only either, though adding that program would be an huge boost for the conference. I keep seeing this on MAC boards and it blows my mind that people still think it's possible. Maybe we'd have a shot if they joined for all sports and some other FCS programs in their vicinity moved up, but then you're talking huge moves and probably 16 teams.

WKU and some combo of FCS programs willing to transition up is the only thing the MAC has left.

Last Edited: 11/10/2021 10:44:01 PM by GoCats105

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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: WKU / MTSU watch
   Posted: 11/10/2021 11:11:29 PM 
Also. WKU fans are ticked off.

https://247sports.com/college/western-kentucky/board/1045...
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: WKU / MTSU watch
   Posted: 11/11/2021 8:30:14 AM 
The MAC is the worst conference in FCS. That schools -- even those that are facing uncertainty in Conference USA -- aren't beating down the doors to join isn't a surprise.

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cbarber357
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  Message Not Read  RE: WKU / MTSU watch
   Posted: 11/11/2021 9:56:36 AM 
Is there any real reason we couldnít just take in WKU for now and look at another school soon? WKU is a solid football and basketball school, would love to have them in the MAC.
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: WKU / MTSU watch
   Posted: 11/11/2021 10:20:37 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
The MAC is the worst conference in FCS. That schools -- even those that are facing uncertainty in Conference USA -- aren't beating down the doors to join isn't a surprise.



I know you love to be Negative Nancy, but we are FBS not FCS, and C-USA 2.0 is by far the worst FBS Conference. And, WKU was literally beating down the doors to get into the MAC. They are a very solid program in both football and basketball, and actually have a Final Four appearance back in the 1970s.


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

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greencat
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  Message Not Read  RE: WKU / MTSU watch
   Posted: 11/11/2021 11:59:47 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
The MAC is the worst conference in FCS. That schools -- even those that are facing uncertainty in Conference USA -- aren't beating down the doors to join isn't a surprise.



For whatever reason(s) the enrollment at MTSU seems to be way down and they can't spend the money to change leagues. Their A.D. and football coach will both soon be gone (FIU's AD quit yesterday and the football coach won't be having his contract renewed/extended), so MTSU sticking with company like that? They are trying to sugar-coat it but just like the time Pee-Wee Herman wrecked his bike and said "I meant to do that!!" - nobody is falling for it. Most MTSU fans are furious. They say the A.D. is working month to month without a contract and want the football and basketball coaches both gone ASAP.

I don't see where any of this is the MAC's fault.
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: WKU / MTSU watch
   Posted: 11/11/2021 12:00:46 PM 
cbarber357 wrote:
Is there any real reason we couldnít just take in WKU for now and look at another school soon? WKU is a solid football and basketball school, would love to have them in the MAC.


The MAC doesn't want uneven divisions, is my guess. I wouldn't be shocked if they told WKU "go ahead and collect that exit fee money for 2 years and then we'll re-engage." But as far as MTSU is concerned, I think that relationship is severed. They wanna stay in the South and have delusions of grandeur getting into the AAC.
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: WKU / MTSU watch
   Posted: 11/11/2021 12:17:18 PM 
greencat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
The MAC is the worst conference in FCS. That schools -- even those that are facing uncertainty in Conference USA -- aren't beating down the doors to join isn't a surprise.





I don't see where any of this is the MAC's fault.


Most of the national media thinks MTSU screwed the pooch on this one, not the MAC.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: WKU / MTSU watch
   Posted: 11/11/2021 12:31:48 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
The MAC is the worst conference in FCS. That schools -- even those that are facing uncertainty in Conference USA -- aren't beating down the doors to join isn't a surprise.



I know you love to be Negative Nancy, but we are FBS not FCS, and C-USA 2.0 is by far the worst FBS Conference. And, WKU was literally beating down the doors to get into the MAC. They are a very solid program in both football and basketball, and actually have a Final Four appearance back in the 1970s.


Oops, sorry -- typo on the FCS vs. FBS.

As to your response, you're basically saying that the worst conference in the country is one that doesn't currently exist. Which means that the only argument you can make in which we are not currently in the worst conference in the country is to fast forward to a time in which that's no longer true. So, you know, I guess "Negative Nancy" happens to correspond with "very obviously right" in this case.

I'm actually not even convinced that it's a foregone conclusion that the new Conference USA is worse than the MAC. I think it's a worse situation for certain members, because of the travel, but it's far from certain that it's worse conference in terms of team quality. Either way, we're debating degrees and the fundamental truth here is that we're in one of the worst conferences in our subdivision. That's not a position of strength.

We're not good at Football and we participate at the lowest level in our subdivision. I know you don't like acknowledging that. But it's the reality and as the landscape of college sports shifts -- which it's doing rapidly -- we should be willing and able to call a spade a spade and have a rational conversation about where we stand as a program.

But, you know, WKU went to the final four in the 70s. So that's exciting.

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: WKU / MTSU watch
   Posted: 11/11/2021 12:34:36 PM 
greencat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
The MAC is the worst conference in FCS. That schools -- even those that are facing uncertainty in Conference USA -- aren't beating down the doors to join isn't a surprise.



For whatever reason(s) the enrollment at MTSU seems to be way down and they can't spend the money to change leagues. Their A.D. and football coach will both soon be gone (FIU's AD quit yesterday and the football coach won't be having his contract renewed/extended), so MTSU sticking with company like that? They are trying to sugar-coat it but just like the time Pee-Wee Herman wrecked his bike and said "I meant to do that!!" - nobody is falling for it. Most MTSU fans are furious. They say the A.D. is working month to month without a contract and want the football and basketball coaches both gone ASAP.

I don't see where any of this is the MAC's fault.


I didn't say anything about it being the MAC's fault. I'm just stating that there's a very good reason we have limited options to expand. It's the reality of where our program is, and the level at which we compete.
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greencat
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  Message Not Read  RE: WKU / MTSU watch
   Posted: 11/11/2021 12:47:59 PM 
GoCats105 wrote:
greencat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
The MAC is the worst conference in FCS. That schools -- even those that are facing uncertainty in Conference USA -- aren't beating down the doors to join isn't a surprise.





I don't see where any of this is the MAC's fault.


Most of the national media thinks MTSU screwed the pooch on this one, not the MAC.


The national media is correct. MTSU thinks a few million bucks saved by staying put in a conference that is so desperate they will add teams that are not even full D-1... a conference that will now have New Mexico State playing F.I.U. which is a 2000 mile drive, aka 29 hours...that the few million bucks (relative pocket change in the current D-1 world)... will pay for enough facility upgrades that some big name conference will want them. Some of the more delusional fans there have mentioned the Big 12... right, as if. Reality: big name D-1 schools don't have wooden high school level pull out bleachers as the upper bowl in their arena. And since a full 100 yard indoor practice facility runs 30 million...where is THAT money going to come from?

Last Edited: 11/11/2021 12:49:04 PM by greencat

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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: WKU / MTSU watch
   Posted: 11/11/2021 3:04:28 PM 
greencat wrote:
GoCats105 wrote:
greencat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
The MAC is the worst conference in FCS. That schools -- even those that are facing uncertainty in Conference USA -- aren't beating down the doors to join isn't a surprise.





I don't see where any of this is the MAC's fault.


Most of the national media thinks MTSU screwed the pooch on this one, not the MAC.


The national media is correct. MTSU thinks a few million bucks saved by staying put in a conference that is so desperate they will add teams that are not even full D-1... a conference that will now have New Mexico State playing F.I.U. which is a 2000 mile drive, aka 29 hours...that the few million bucks (relative pocket change in the current D-1 world)... will pay for enough facility upgrades that some big name conference will want them. Some of the more delusional fans there have mentioned the Big 12... right, as if. Reality: big name D-1 schools don't have wooden high school level pull out bleachers as the upper bowl in their arena. And since a full 100 yard indoor practice facility runs 30 million...where is THAT money going to come from?


When you think of it, the new CUSA won't be that much different geographically than the current CUSA (El Paso to Miami, FL to Richmond, VA), so their travel expenses will be about the same. The whole point of the original realignment proposal was to cut expenses, but that's gone out the window along with nine of the 14 CUSA teams. The big hit in the near term will be prestige -- J-State, JMU and NMSU are poor substitutes for some of the schools they lost. But the Sun Belt was in their position five or ten years ago and they've thrived. Who knows what'll happen over the next five or ten years. It's a big gamble on their part.


We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: WKU / MTSU watch
   Posted: 11/11/2021 5:26:23 PM 
Pataskala wrote:
greencat wrote:
GoCats105 wrote:
greencat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
The MAC is the worst conference in FCS. That schools -- even those that are facing uncertainty in Conference USA -- aren't beating down the doors to join isn't a surprise.





I don't see where any of this is the MAC's fault.


Most of the national media thinks MTSU screwed the pooch on this one, not the MAC.


The national media is correct. MTSU thinks a few million bucks saved by staying put in a conference that is so desperate they will add teams that are not even full D-1... a conference that will now have New Mexico State playing F.I.U. which is a 2000 mile drive, aka 29 hours...that the few million bucks (relative pocket change in the current D-1 world)... will pay for enough facility upgrades that some big name conference will want them. Some of the more delusional fans there have mentioned the Big 12... right, as if. Reality: big name D-1 schools don't have wooden high school level pull out bleachers as the upper bowl in their arena. And since a full 100 yard indoor practice facility runs 30 million...where is THAT money going to come from?


When you think of it, the new CUSA won't be that much different geographically than the current CUSA (El Paso to Miami, FL to Richmond, VA), so their travel expenses will be about the same. The whole point of the original realignment proposal was to cut expenses, but that's gone out the window along with nine of the 14 CUSA teams. The big hit in the near term will be prestige -- J-State, JMU and NMSU are poor substitutes for some of the schools they lost. But the Sun Belt was in their position five or ten years ago and they've thrived. Who knows what'll happen over the next five or ten years. It's a big gamble on their part.


The Sun Belt also has an identity, something which C-USA has never really had. They've always more or less just chosen the cast offs and been an island of misfit toys. I mean look at their conference history membership timeline and the spread of schools they've had:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conference_USA

Nobody is looking to stay in C-USA for the long haul, hell even MTSU isn't. It's a cash grab, plain and simple. And to that I say good luck, but don't come crying to the MAC when WKU joins with someone else a couple years from now because you didn't pull the trigger.

Frankly, the MAC should probably be commended for not getting in bed with that school.
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greencat
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  Message Not Read  RE: WKU / MTSU watch
   Posted: 11/11/2021 5:27:36 PM 
Partial list of former C_USA members:

UCF
Cincinnati
Houston
Louisville
Memphis
SMU
TCU

A conference that lost that list of schools? I wouldn't have faith in it.
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: WKU / MTSU watch
   Posted: 11/11/2021 5:54:09 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
The MAC is the worst conference in FCS. That schools -- even those that are facing uncertainty in Conference USA -- aren't beating down the doors to join isn't a surprise.



I know you love to be Negative Nancy, but we are FBS not FCS, and C-USA 2.0 is by far the worst FBS Conference. And, WKU was literally beating down the doors to get into the MAC. They are a very solid program in both football and basketball, and actually have a Final Four appearance back in the 1970s.


Oops, sorry -- typo on the FCS vs. FBS.

As to your response, you're basically saying that the worst conference in the country is one that doesn't currently exist. Which means that the only argument you can make in which we are not currently in the worst conference in the country is to fast forward to a time in which that's no longer true. So, you know, I guess "Negative Nancy" happens to correspond with "very obviously right" in this case.

I'm actually not even convinced that it's a foregone conclusion that the new Conference USA is worse than the MAC. I think it's a worse situation for certain members, because of the travel, but it's far from certain that it's worse conference in terms of team quality. Either way, we're debating degrees and the fundamental truth here is that we're in one of the worst conferences in our subdivision. That's not a position of strength.

We're not good at Football and we participate at the lowest level in our subdivision. I know you don't like acknowledging that. But it's the reality and as the landscape of college sports shifts -- which it's doing rapidly -- we should be willing and able to call a spade a spade and have a rational conversation about where we stand as a program.

But, you know, WKU went to the final four in the 70s. So that's exciting.



Even C-USA this year, before all the sh** hit the fan, was not as good as the MAC. Compare any win a C-USA team had with MAC wins over B1G West-contender Minnesota, Georgia Tech and ACC-contender Pittsburg. We are not as bad at football as you would have us believe. And, the MAC in the last decade has played in to two New Year's Day bowls as the highest ranked G5 school. I may be wrong, as I haven't look it up, but I don't think C-USA has even one representative in a NYD bowl. I do remember that Marshall almost made it, save for a trouncing by WKU late in the season. I was bummed about that because my wife was going to buy plane and game tickets for me as a present.

Last Edited: 11/11/2021 5:56:18 PM by OhioCatFan


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: WKU / MTSU watch
   Posted: 11/11/2021 7:50:45 PM 
You are correct. C-USA has never played in a BCS/NY6 bowl. They've been very close a couple times and couldn't get it done. That Marshall team that went 13-1 and 2011 Houstpn were probably their best shots.

2011 Houston was 12-0 and ranked #7 going into the C-USA title game and lost by 3 TDs to Southern Miss. This was back in the BCS days when no G5 was guaranteed a major bowl game.

2014 Marshall went 13-1, but never ranked higher than #18 in the inaugural CFP rankings. Lost to WKU 67-66 and drop from the rankings the weekend before the C-USA title game which they won. The committee probably could have ranked and chose them, but they chose Boise State as the highest ranked G5 for the Fiesta Bowl.

Last Edited: 11/11/2021 8:02:52 PM by GoCats105

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: WKU / MTSU watch
   Posted: 11/11/2021 8:33:28 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
The MAC is the worst conference in FCS. That schools -- even those that are facing uncertainty in Conference USA -- aren't beating down the doors to join isn't a surprise.



I know you love to be Negative Nancy, but we are FBS not FCS, and C-USA 2.0 is by far the worst FBS Conference. And, WKU was literally beating down the doors to get into the MAC. They are a very solid program in both football and basketball, and actually have a Final Four appearance back in the 1970s.


Oops, sorry -- typo on the FCS vs. FBS.

As to your response, you're basically saying that the worst conference in the country is one that doesn't currently exist. Which means that the only argument you can make in which we are not currently in the worst conference in the country is to fast forward to a time in which that's no longer true. So, you know, I guess "Negative Nancy" happens to correspond with "very obviously right" in this case.

I'm actually not even convinced that it's a foregone conclusion that the new Conference USA is worse than the MAC. I think it's a worse situation for certain members, because of the travel, but it's far from certain that it's worse conference in terms of team quality. Either way, we're debating degrees and the fundamental truth here is that we're in one of the worst conferences in our subdivision. That's not a position of strength.

We're not good at Football and we participate at the lowest level in our subdivision. I know you don't like acknowledging that. But it's the reality and as the landscape of college sports shifts -- which it's doing rapidly -- we should be willing and able to call a spade a spade and have a rational conversation about where we stand as a program.

But, you know, WKU went to the final four in the 70s. So that's exciting.



Even C-USA this year, before all the sh** hit the fan, was not as good as the MAC. Compare any win a C-USA team had with MAC wins over B1G West-contender Minnesota, Georgia Tech and ACC-contender Pittsburg. We are not as bad at football as you would have us believe. And, the MAC in the last decade has played in to two New Year's Day bowls as the highest ranked G5 school. I may be wrong, as I haven't look it up, but I don't think C-USA has even one representative in a NYD bowl. I do remember that Marshall almost made it, save for a trouncing by WKU late in the season. I was bummed about that because my wife was going to buy plane and game tickets for me as a present.


According to RPI, the MAC is indeed worse than Conference USA: http://realtimerpi.com/college_football/ncaaf_conf_Men.html

That's not the be all end all, of course. But given that this conversation is about how attractive the MAC is as a landing spot for football, the fact that my assertion that we're the worst conference is being met with "no, actually I think we are second worse" doesn't actually change the over-arching point I'm making in any way.

We compete at a low level in our subdivision. It might be the lowest level. It might be the second latest level. Either way, it's not a very attractive offering.

Further, that there have been like 18 rounds of conference realignment, and the MAC remains untouched while Conference USA gets raided again and again says something about how the two conferences are perceived. Maybe, after three rounds of other conferences stealing their top programs, Conference USA will end up worse than the MAC. Is that a victory? Does it put us any closer to being, you know, actually eligible for a national championship?

We dump stupid amounts of money into a race we lost decades ago. The only championship we're eligible for is a conference championship, which exists at any level. Our TV deal doesn't cover the cost of our coaching staff.

I just truly fail to see the point of trying to maintain a level of football that has no interest in reciprocating any of the investment we put into it. And the divide that already exists is deepening. And we're scrambling to split up our small pie amongst more mouths. Why?

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Victory
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  Message Not Read  RE: WKU / MTSU watch
   Posted: 11/11/2021 8:36:50 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
The MAC is the worst conference in FCS. That schools -- even those that are facing uncertainty in Conference USA -- aren't beating down the doors to join isn't a surprise.



I know you love to be Negative Nancy, but we are FBS not FCS, and C-USA 2.0 is by far the worst FBS Conference. And, WKU was literally beating down the doors to get into the MAC. They are a very solid program in both football and basketball, and actually have a Final Four appearance back in the 1970s.


Oops, sorry -- typo on the FCS vs. FBS.

As to your response, you're basically saying that the worst conference in the country is one that doesn't currently exist. Which means that the only argument you can make in which we are not currently in the worst conference in the country is to fast forward to a time in which that's no longer true. So, you know, I guess "Negative Nancy" happens to correspond with "very obviously right" in this case.

I'm actually not even convinced that it's a foregone conclusion that the new Conference USA is worse than the MAC. I think it's a worse situation for certain members, because of the travel, but it's far from certain that it's worse conference in terms of team quality. Either way, we're debating degrees and the fundamental truth here is that we're in one of the worst conferences in our subdivision. That's not a position of strength.

We're not good at Football and we participate at the lowest level in our subdivision. I know you don't like acknowledging that. But it's the reality and as the landscape of college sports shifts -- which it's doing rapidly -- we should be willing and able to call a spade a spade and have a rational conversation about where we stand as a program.

But, you know, WKU went to the final four in the 70s. So that's exciting.



Even C-USA this year, before all the sh** hit the fan, was not as good as the MAC. Compare any win a C-USA team had with MAC wins over B1G West-contender Minnesota, Georgia Tech and ACC-contender Pittsburg. We are not as bad at football as you would have us believe. And, the MAC in the last decade has played in to two New Year's Day bowls as the highest ranked G5 school. I may be wrong, as I haven't look it up, but I don't think C-USA has even one representative in a NYD bowl. I do remember that Marshall almost made it, save for a trouncing by WKU late in the season. I was bummed about that because my wife was going to buy plane and game tickets for me as a present.


According to RPI, the MAC is indeed worse than Conference USA: http://realtimerpi.com/college_football/ncaaf_conf_Men.html

That's not the be all end all, of course. But given that this conversation is about how attractive the MAC is as a landing spot for football, the fact that my assertion that we're the worst conference is being met with "no, actually I think we are second worse" doesn't actually change the over-arching point I'm making in any way.

We compete at a low level in our subdivision. It might be the lowest level. It might be the second latest level. Either way, it's not a very attractive offering.

Further, that there have been like 18 rounds of conference realignment, and the MAC remains untouched while Conference USA gets raided again and again says something about how the two conferences are perceived. Maybe, after three rounds of other conferences stealing their top programs, Conference USA will end up worse than the MAC. Is that a victory? Does it put us any closer to being, you know, actually eligible for a national championship?

We dump stupid amounts of money into a race we lost decades ago. The only championship we're eligible for is a conference championship, which exists at any level. Our TV deal doesn't cover the cost of our coaching staff.

I just truly fail to see the point of trying to maintain a level of football that has no interest in reciprocating any of the investment we put into it. And the divide that already exists is deepening. And we're scrambling to split up our small pie amongst more mouths. Why?



It is close enough this year that it depends on which system you look at. The RPI might be the very worst math based rating system ever devised. Anyway, nearly every year since the last realignment the MAC has rated better than CUSA.

https://masseyratings.com/cf/compare.htm
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: WKU / MTSU watch
   Posted: 11/11/2021 11:20:05 PM 
Victory wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
The MAC is the worst conference in FCS. That schools -- even those that are facing uncertainty in Conference USA -- aren't beating down the doors to join isn't a surprise.



I know you love to be Negative Nancy, but we are FBS not FCS, and C-USA 2.0 is by far the worst FBS Conference. And, WKU was literally beating down the doors to get into the MAC. They are a very solid program in both football and basketball, and actually have a Final Four appearance back in the 1970s.


Oops, sorry -- typo on the FCS vs. FBS.

As to your response, you're basically saying that the worst conference in the country is one that doesn't currently exist. Which means that the only argument you can make in which we are not currently in the worst conference in the country is to fast forward to a time in which that's no longer true. So, you know, I guess "Negative Nancy" happens to correspond with "very obviously right" in this case.

I'm actually not even convinced that it's a foregone conclusion that the new Conference USA is worse than the MAC. I think it's a worse situation for certain members, because of the travel, but it's far from certain that it's worse conference in terms of team quality. Either way, we're debating degrees and the fundamental truth here is that we're in one of the worst conferences in our subdivision. That's not a position of strength.

We're not good at Football and we participate at the lowest level in our subdivision. I know you don't like acknowledging that. But it's the reality and as the landscape of college sports shifts -- which it's doing rapidly -- we should be willing and able to call a spade a spade and have a rational conversation about where we stand as a program.

But, you know, WKU went to the final four in the 70s. So that's exciting.



Even C-USA this year, before all the sh** hit the fan, was not as good as the MAC. Compare any win a C-USA team had with MAC wins over B1G West-contender Minnesota, Georgia Tech and ACC-contender Pittsburg. We are not as bad at football as you would have us believe. And, the MAC in the last decade has played in to two New Year's Day bowls as the highest ranked G5 school. I may be wrong, as I haven't look it up, but I don't think C-USA has even one representative in a NYD bowl. I do remember that Marshall almost made it, save for a trouncing by WKU late in the season. I was bummed about that because my wife was going to buy plane and game tickets for me as a present.


According to RPI, the MAC is indeed worse than Conference USA: http://realtimerpi.com/college_football/ncaaf_conf_Men.html

That's not the be all end all, of course. But given that this conversation is about how attractive the MAC is as a landing spot for football, the fact that my assertion that we're the worst conference is being met with "no, actually I think we are second worse" doesn't actually change the over-arching point I'm making in any way.

We compete at a low level in our subdivision. It might be the lowest level. It might be the second latest level. Either way, it's not a very attractive offering.

Further, that there have been like 18 rounds of conference realignment, and the MAC remains untouched while Conference USA gets raided again and again says something about how the two conferences are perceived. Maybe, after three rounds of other conferences stealing their top programs, Conference USA will end up worse than the MAC. Is that a victory? Does it put us any closer to being, you know, actually eligible for a national championship?

We dump stupid amounts of money into a race we lost decades ago. The only championship we're eligible for is a conference championship, which exists at any level. Our TV deal doesn't cover the cost of our coaching staff.

I just truly fail to see the point of trying to maintain a level of football that has no interest in reciprocating any of the investment we put into it. And the divide that already exists is deepening. And we're scrambling to split up our small pie amongst more mouths. Why?



It is close enough this year that it depends on which system you look at. The RPI might be the very worst math based rating system ever devised. Anyway, nearly every year since the last realignment the MAC has rated better than CUSA.

https://masseyratings.com/cf/compare.htm


Thanks, Victory. That makes my point.

And, BLSS's point about the MAC not being raided doesn't really mean when he thinks it means. How do you know that no MAC teams have been approached about moving to other conferences? There have been rumors about Toledo and Buffalo having been approached by the AAC at one point. Maybe they didn't want to move, the same way MTSU didn't want to move from their current conference.


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Member Since: 7/30/2010
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  Message Not Read  RE: WKU / MTSU watch
   Posted: 11/12/2021 12:38:50 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
[

Thanks, Victory. That makes my point.

And, BLSS's point about the MAC not being raided doesn't really mean when he thinks it means. How do you know that no MAC teams have been approached about moving to other conferences? There have been rumors about Toledo and Buffalo having been approached by the AAC at one point. Maybe they didn't want to move, the same way MTSU didn't want to move from their current conference.


This is a masterclass in avoiding addressing the actual point of an argument in favor of arguing around the edges. You're welcome to consider me a 'negative Nancy' all you want; what's very clear to me is how hard a lot of people here are willing to work to pretend the reality of the situation our football program finds itself in is not the reality.

Whether we're the worst conference, or second worst doesn't change the calculus much. It's just bickering around the margins, but unrelated to the core challenge we face. Ditto that Toledo and Buffalo may have been approached about switching conferences. Especially with the number of 'maybes' in your own explanation. The reality is you can't provide any evidence that Buffalo and Toledo were offered by the AAC and chose not to join; it's just the narrative that suits you best, and therefore the one you're choosing to believe.

And even were your narrative 100% correct, it still doesn't add up to a position of strength in the landscape of college football. It doesn't make the finances add up. It doesn't mean we're eligible for a national championship.

It just means that there's a worse conference out there. At best, that puts us in the bottom 10% of programs at our level without any path to improve on that.

What's actually good about this situation and how do we justify continuing to invest in maintaining this status quo?


Last Edited: 11/12/2021 12:47:19 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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GoCats105
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Location: Austin, TX
Post Count: 6,068

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  Message Not Read  RE: WKU / MTSU watch
   Posted: 11/12/2021 3:32:32 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
[

Thanks, Victory. That makes my point.

And, BLSS's point about the MAC not being raided doesn't really mean when he thinks it means. How do you know that no MAC teams have been approached about moving to other conferences? There have been rumors about Toledo and Buffalo having been approached by the AAC at one point. Maybe they didn't want to move, the same way MTSU didn't want to move from their current conference.



What's actually good about this situation and how do we justify continuing to invest in maintaining this status quo?




I ask myself this question every day.

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Deciduous Forest Cat
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Location: Ohio
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  Message Not Read  RE: WKU / MTSU watch
   Posted: 11/12/2021 3:52:52 PM 
GoCats105 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
[

Thanks, Victory. That makes my point.

And, BLSS's point about the MAC not being raided doesn't really mean when he thinks it means. How do you know that no MAC teams have been approached about moving to other conferences? There have been rumors about Toledo and Buffalo having been approached by the AAC at one point. Maybe they didn't want to move, the same way MTSU didn't want to move from their current conference.



What's actually good about this situation and how do we justify continuing to invest in maintaining this status quo?




I ask myself this question every day.



Uh...cause sports are fun and stuff.

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GoCats105
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Location: Austin, TX
Post Count: 6,068

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  Message Not Read  RE: WKU / MTSU watch
   Posted: 11/12/2021 5:24:46 PM 
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:
GoCats105 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
[

Thanks, Victory. That makes my point.

And, BLSS's point about the MAC not being raided doesn't really mean when he thinks it means. How do you know that no MAC teams have been approached about moving to other conferences? There have been rumors about Toledo and Buffalo having been approached by the AAC at one point. Maybe they didn't want to move, the same way MTSU didn't want to move from their current conference.



What's actually good about this situation and how do we justify continuing to invest in maintaining this status quo?




I ask myself this question every day.



Uh...cause sports are fun and stuff.



Of course they are. But they'd be a lot more fun if Ohio actually had a glimmer of hope of even being able to COMPETE for a National Championship. As it stands now, they don't.
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CatsUp
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  Message Not Read  RE: WKU / MTSU watch
   Posted: 11/12/2021 7:17:59 PM 
GoCats105 wrote:
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:
GoCats105 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
[

Thanks, Victory. That makes my point.

And, BLSS's point about the MAC not being raided doesn't really mean when he thinks it means. How do you know that no MAC teams have been approached about moving to other conferences? There have been rumors about Toledo and Buffalo having been approached by the AAC at one point. Maybe they didn't want to move, the same way MTSU didn't want to move from their current conference.



What's actually good about this situation and how do we justify continuing to invest in maintaining this status quo?




I ask myself this question every day.



Uh...cause sports are fun and stuff.



Of course they are. But they'd be a lot more fun if Ohio actually had a glimmer of hope of even being able to COMPETE for a National Championship. As it stands now, they don't.


You do realize thatís probably true for at least half of the P5s? If those schools are being honest with themselves they know where they stand competitively. They are not serious contenders but primarily pretenders, just like us and the rest of the G5. As an alum, for me, there is just more interest that comes with being in FBS. Seems to give us some sense of football relevance, and by extension, athletics relevance. Otherwise whatís the point of dropping to another level? An FCS National Championship would mean very little to me. May as well win the OAC. Just my opinion.
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GoCats105
General User

Member Since: 1/31/2006
Location: Austin, TX
Post Count: 6,068

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: WKU / MTSU watch
   Posted: 11/12/2021 8:20:50 PM 
CatsUp wrote:
GoCats105 wrote:
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:
GoCats105 wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
[

Thanks, Victory. That makes my point.

And, BLSS's point about the MAC not being raided doesn't really mean when he thinks it means. How do you know that no MAC teams have been approached about moving to other conferences? There have been rumors about Toledo and Buffalo having been approached by the AAC at one point. Maybe they didn't want to move, the same way MTSU didn't want to move from their current conference.



What's actually good about this situation and how do we justify continuing to invest in maintaining this status quo?




I ask myself this question every day.



Uh...cause sports are fun and stuff.



Of course they are. But they'd be a lot more fun if Ohio actually had a glimmer of hope of even being able to COMPETE for a National Championship. As it stands now, they don't.


You do realize thatís probably true for at least half of the P5s? If those schools are being honest with themselves they know where they stand competitively. They are not serious contenders but primarily pretenders, just like us and the rest of the G5. As an alum, for me, there is just more interest that comes with being in FBS. Seems to give us some sense of football relevance, and by extension, athletics relevance. Otherwise whatís the point of dropping to another level? An FCS National Championship would mean very little to me. May as well win the OAC. Just my opinion.


Of course I realize that, but you're missing the point. Even those P5s that don't invest in their programs or try to recruit at the level that other schools have a path to the championship. The G5 does not.

I live football and I love the FBS, but the ultimate goal of any team sport is to competing to be the best. FBS college football is the only sport in America where that isn't a readily available possibility for approximately half the schools.

Moving down to FCS isn't an option either, though we could certainly try and rework the program and build a solid fan base that way. Look no further than Marshall, App State, Georgia Southern and James Madison. All of those programs have won national championships at a lower level and gained an interest in their program before transitioning up. Frankly it's kind of embarrassing how much more some FCS fanbases care about their football program than some G5 fanbases care about theirs.



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