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Topic:  RE: Keep Tim Albin

Topic:  RE: Keep Tim Albin
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Keep Tim Albin
   Posted: 12/3/2021 7:35:51 AM 
mf279801 wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:
According to an article in the 12/2/21 The Post (OU's budget expected to end in surplus for 2021) O.U. will end 2021 with a surplus of $42.6 million.

Using $500 k of that to buy out Albin would leave $42.1 million.

So, they do have the money to buy him out.


And how much deferred maintenance has OU built up over the years? Is paying 2 head football coaches in 2022 the best use of that money?


It may not be the "best" use of the money.
But, given the fact that it is coming out of a surplus, certainly worth considering.

It would be a de minimis amount, compared to the overall surplus for this year.

So saying that O.U. doesn't have the money to buy out Albin isn't the case.

As far as deferred maintenance, according an articles in The Post, to address
issues with things like deferred maintenance, O.U. is planning on selling
off properties and demolishing Scott Quad.

So there doesn't seem to be any intention on using the surplus for that.

Last Edited: 12/3/2021 7:40:48 AM by rpbobcat

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Keep Tim Albin
   Posted: 12/3/2021 10:39:58 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:

It may not be the "best" use of the money.
But, given the fact that it is coming out of a surplus, certainly worth considering.


I struggle to see why it's even worth considering. What's the case for that?

What is the upside? Even at our best, don't we end up losing more money? And historically hasn't our best in football been mediocre? We haven't won a MAC Championship, and while we end up with a participation trophy of a Bowl Game (like 80+ of the 130 FBS schools) doing so just results in greater financial losses.

The case for a buyout is about accelerating the timeline by one year. But the timeline to what, exactly? What's the case for that acceleration being worth $500k?

By the way, I'm old enough to remember when this board -- a whopping 11 months ago -- was completely up in arms that an Ohio University employee received a 33k annual bonus at a time when employees were getting laid off. I think her job may even have been directly related to budgeting. Who could ever say? It was so long ago.

I guess the laid off employees who can go f*ck themselves now that football is involved.





Last Edited: 12/3/2021 10:59:29 AM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Keep Tim Albin
   Posted: 12/3/2021 11:03:41 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:

It may not be the "best" use of the money.
But, given the fact that it is coming out of a surplus, certainly worth considering.


I struggle to see why it's even worth considering. What's the case for that?

What is the upside? Even at our best, don't we end up losing more money? And historically hasn't our best in football been mediocre? We haven't won a MAC Championship, and while we end up with a participation trophy of a Bowl Game (like 80+ of the 130 FBS schools) doing so just results in greater financial losses.

The case for a buyout is about accelerating the timeline by one year. But the timeline to what, exactly? What's the case for that acceleration being worth $500k?

By the way, I'm old enough to remember when this board -- a whopping 11 months ago -- was completely up in arms that an Ohio University employee received a 33k annual bonus at a time when employees were getting laid off. I think her job may even have been directly related to budgeting. Who could ever say? It was so long ago.

I guess the laid off employees who can go f*ck themselves now that football is involved.



There doesn't seem to be much doubt that Albin's tenure as head coach will be over after next season.

The only reason for keeping him was that O.U. didn't have the money for his buy out.

With a $46.6 million surplus ,they do.

The question is whether or not they want to use a miniscule portion of it, for that purpose.

There don't seem to any positives to keeping him for another year, again, other
then his buyout.

Why continue paying him to let the program go further downhill then it did this year, when you don't have to, and the end result will be the same.
Just 12 months or so later ?

With the recently announced retirements, there is great opportunity to
"stop the bleeding" now, and move the program forward.

I would also think some of the surplus could, if O.U.'s administration wanted,
be used to bring back laid off employees.
Again, haven't seen any indication that the administration is looking in that direction.



Last Edited: 12/3/2021 11:21:37 AM by rpbobcat

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Keep Tim Albin
   Posted: 12/3/2021 11:29:24 AM 
rpbobcat wrote:


The only reason for keeping him was that O.U. didn't have the money for his buy out.


The question isn't "can the university find $500k" -- they can. They have an operating budget of 2 billion dollars. The question is whether spending $500k on a buyout of the football coach is a wise investment.

rpbobcat wrote:

There don't seem to any positives to keeping him for another year, again, other
then his buyout.


I'm asking you to explain the positives of spending $500k on making him go away a year early, and make a case for why that's a smart use of money given the circumstances.

rpbobcat wrote:

Why continue paying him to let the program go further downhill then it did this year, when you don't have to, and the end result will be the same.
Just 12 months or so later ?


The end result won't be the same. It'll be the same, but you won't have paid an extra $500k (or, more specifically, you won't have to pay whatever you end up paying the new coach).

The specific question is how is the difference between where the football program would be if you buyout Albin today, or move on in one year for free, worth that extra money?


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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Keep Tim Albin
   Posted: 12/3/2021 11:40:01 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:


The only reason for keeping him was that O.U. didn't have the money for his buy out.


The question isn't "can the university find $500k" -- they can. They have an operating budget of 2 billion dollars. The question is whether spending $500k on a buyout of the football coach is a wise investment.

rpbobcat wrote:

There don't seem to any positives to keeping him for another year, again, other
then his buyout.


I'm asking you to explain the positives of spending $500k on making him go away a year early, and make a case for why that's a smart use of money given the circumstances.

rpbobcat wrote:

Why continue paying him to let the program go further downhill then it did this year, when you don't have to, and the end result will be the same.
Just 12 months or so later ?


The end result won't be the same. It'll be the same, but you won't have paid an extra $500k (or, more specifically, you won't have to pay whatever you end up paying the new coach).

The specific question is how is the difference between where the football program would be if you buyout Albin today, or move on in one year for free, worth that extra money?




You're entitled to your opinion.

I'm entitled to mine.

From reading the posts here, the only reason for not buying out Albin was that
O.U. didn't have the money.

Turns out they do.

You can argue whether its a good use of the money.

You can't argue that the money isn't there to do it.

Personally, I think spending roughly 1% (if my math is correct) of your surplus to buyout Albin today, and allow the program to move forward now, instead of 12 months from now, is worth it.

You don't.

Simple as that.

Of course, neither you or I get to make that decision.



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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Keep Tim Albin
   Posted: 12/3/2021 11:57:02 AM 
How does BLSOS get any work done? Unless he's a member of the AD staff...

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Keep Tim Albin
   Posted: 12/3/2021 12:07:50 PM 
SBH wrote:
How does BLSOS get any work done? Unless he's a member of the AD staff...



I work my own hours and when I'm motivated to do so. But appreciate your concern, man. It really means a lot to me. In this case, I have an hour between meetings and am not in a headspace to focus so I'm f*cking around here.



Last Edited: 12/3/2021 12:28:52 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Keep Tim Albin
   Posted: 12/3/2021 12:16:13 PM 
rpbobcat wrote:


You're entitled to your opinion.

I'm entitled to mine.


Yeah man, I asked you to explain your opinion. So I could understand it better.

rpbobcat wrote:

From reading the posts here, the only reason for not buying out Albin was that
O.U. didn't have the money.

Turns out they do.


But. . .I just explained a different reason. That I don't think it's a good use of the money. And asked you directly about it.

rpbobcat wrote:

You can argue whether its a good use of the money.

You can't argue that the money isn't there to do it.


I know. You just restated the point I made and the reason I asked you to explain your differing opinion. The post you're replying to began by stating there's no question an organization with an operating budget of $2 billion can find $500k for a buyout. I'm not arguing that the money isn't there to do it. I'm asking why you think it's a good use of the money.

rpbobcat wrote:

Personally, I think spending roughly 1% (if my math is correct) of your surplus to buyout Albin today, and allow the program to move forward now, instead of 12 months from now, is worth it.

You don't.

Simple as that.


I understand what your opinion is. I was asking why that's your opinion, and why you think it's worth it. I could be convinced otherwise, I just haven't seen anybody make the case yet.





Last Edited: 12/3/2021 12:34:59 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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bobcatsquared
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  Message Not Read  RE: Keep Tim Albin
   Posted: 12/3/2021 12:54:47 PM 
Nobody, on any thread, makes a case that counters BLSS's thinking. Additionally, nobody answers his questions.

Despite all of that, he sure is persistent in his quest for these replies/answers.

Last Edited: 12/3/2021 12:57:35 PM by bobcatsquared

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SBH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Keep Tim Albin
   Posted: 12/3/2021 1:19:10 PM 
BLSOS = Russ Eisenstein

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: Keep Tim Albin
   Posted: 12/3/2021 1:54:42 PM 
SBH wrote:
BLSOS = Russ Eisenstein



SBH = wrong as usual

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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Keep Tim Albin
   Posted: 12/3/2021 2:21:46 PM 
I didn't watch any football the last two years, so I can't comment on the job that Albin did, and as to whether he deserves to return or not. I will say that I think that, on short notice, negotiating only a two year contract is a good job by the AD. If Albin improves in his second year, which he may, she can let the contract run 4 years, and if he doesn't, she can replace him, and have plenty of time for a coaching search next year, since the decision as to whether to keep him or not would almost certainly be made by mid-season, not after the last game. The only reason you would end up with a late decision to let him go would be if something really odd happened, such as starting 5-0, and then finishing 5-7.

All that said, suppose she fires Albin today? What will that tell prospective new coaches? That they can only count on one year, and that if they don't win more than four games their first year, they are toast? Is that going to be conducive to getting a good coach hired? Conversely, if they let Albin go after next year, to prospective coaches it will say that they can expect their contract to be honored, and they can expect a reasonable timeframe to produce results. I think you get a better coach in that situation, for both of the above reasons. But, then, as I said, I didn't watch any football, so I have no idea if Albin was merely mediocre, or truly horrible.


“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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giacomo
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  Message Not Read  RE: Keep Tim Albin
   Posted: 12/3/2021 4:30:06 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:

Thanks for the clarification. I understand your point, and at least partially agree with it. Cromer has done a better job than Boeh, but not as good as she could have done. I think that last part is where we continue to disagree. I think something like rpbobcat's suggestion might have worked. At his juncture we'll never know for sure, since none of us were part of the negotiations, though BTC might have an ear to the wall.


Here's rpboncat's suggestion:

Cromer: So, I've got this idea. What if instead of announcing your retirement, you pretend you're not retiring. That way, I can get away with naming Tim Albin interim coach and if things don't go well this coming season, I can fire him.

Solich: We're talking about the same Tim Albin that I've been friends and colleagues with for 20 years, right? The one I hired and who has been a key part of my staff for 15 years. That guy, right?

Cromer: Yep!

Solich: I see. So you're asking me to be publicly dishonest about my status, and in exchange, you get to ensure that my long time friend and trusted colleague doesn't end up with any job stability?

Cromer: Exactly! And here's another really good part: do you know Tim's family? I bet you do! By doing this, their lives also become really uncertain! Maybe they'll have to move soon. Maybe not! Who knows. Isn't that a cool perk?

Solich: Wait, remind me, why do I want to do this?

Cromer: Well, you see, there are a bunch of old grads on Bobcatattack.com who are trying very, very hard to find a way to justify their emotional, poorly thought out desire to retroactively blame me for the disappointing football season, and after they failed to rationally state a case as to how I could have done any better than I did, they've come up with this nonsense.

Solich: Oh, but wouldn't it just take the littlest bit of critical thought to understand that this doesn't make sense?

Cromer: Frank, you're not listening. They really, really want to blame me. Critical thought and rationality have nothing to do with it. I don't wrote letters to the fanbase!

Frank: Wait, letters? What's that have to do with shy of this?

Cromer: Exactly.

Frank: But surely they understand that I want Albin to be successful, right?

Cromer: You'd think so. There are a dozen obvious reasons why that would be the case. But no. Not anymore. A couple of months ago they did -- one of them when used to say "Frank got us into this mess, he can get us out of it" and suggest you buy out Albin's contract.

Frank:. . .

Cromer: Yeah, I know. And now he's suggesting that you would've gone along with this lie I came up with to avoid giving Albin the opportunity to get a real shot at this job.

Frank: Huh. And they're doing all of this with the benefit of hindsight, and didn't say anything about this at the time?

Cromer: Exactly. In fact, one of them predicted we'd win the MAC Championship. And that we'd have the best defense. Of the century.

Frank: None of this makes any sense at all.

Cromer: Sorry, what were you saying, I don't pay attention to Ohio Athletics and am on an NCAA committee conference call.



You nailed it!!
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Doc Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Keep Tim Albin
   Posted: 12/3/2021 4:55:09 PM 
With OUr defensive coaching this year I’m not sure Frank could have saved us.
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BryanHall
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  Message Not Read  RE: Keep Tim Albin
   Posted: 12/3/2021 5:14:12 PM 
Doc Bobcat wrote:
With OUr defensive coaching this year I’m not sure Frank could have saved us.


I'm in agreement. The 2019 team was nearly as good as the 2012-13 teams in a weaker conference. The defense took a noticeable drop from 2018 with less significant talent losses. I just don't think Collins was working out.
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Doc Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Keep Tim Albin
   Posted: 12/3/2021 5:17:45 PM 
BryanHall wrote:
Doc Bobcat wrote:
With OUr defensive coaching this year I’m not sure Frank could have saved us.


I'm in agreement. The 2019 team was nearly as good as the 2012-13 teams in a weaker conference. The defense took a noticeable drop from 2018 with less significant talent losses. I just don't think Collins was working out.


Not working out is an understatement.
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Ohio69
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  Message Not Read  RE: Keep Tim Albin
   Posted: 12/3/2021 5:23:57 PM 
According to WOUB, OU is facing a $30 million deficit this year, another $30 million deficit next year, and then a $44 million deficit the year after that.
https://woub.org/2021/08/20/ohio-university-recovering-fr... /

I assume a donor would have to appear to pay off any coaches contract if WOUB is correct.



Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Keep Tim Albin
   Posted: 12/3/2021 8:09:33 PM 
That Post article makes no sense. It says we're half way through FY21. FY21 ended on June 30 of 2021.

https://madisonrecord.com/stories/613721048-balfour-alleg...
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rpbobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Keep Tim Albin
   Posted: 12/3/2021 9:30:40 PM 
Ohio69 wrote:
According to WOUB, OU is facing a $30 million deficit this year, another $30 million deficit next year, and then a $44 million deficit the year after that.
https://woub.org/2021/08/20/ohio-university-recovering-fr... /

I assume a donor would have to appear to pay off any coaches contract if WOUB is correct.



The WOUB article refers to the soon to be retired Senior VP for Finance and Administration,Deb Shafer.

The Post article that says O.U. will have a $42.6 million surplus refers to Interim VP of Finance and Budget Joe Trubacz.

Seems odd for 2 people in the same position,in the same office,to have such different positions on O.U. finances.

Wonder if either one can balance a check book,let alone O.U.'s budget ?


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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Keep Tim Albin
   Posted: 12/4/2021 7:06:55 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:

It may not be the "best" use of the money.
But, given the fact that it is coming out of a surplus, certainly worth considering.


I struggle to see why it's even worth considering. What's the case for that?

What is the upside? Even at our best, don't we end up losing more money? And historically hasn't our best in football been mediocre? We haven't won a MAC Championship, and while we end up with a participation trophy of a Bowl Game (like 80+ of the 130 FBS schools) doing so just results in greater financial losses.

The case for a buyout is about accelerating the timeline by one year. But the timeline to what, exactly? What's the case for that acceleration being worth $500k?

By the way, I'm old enough to remember when this board -- a whopping 11 months ago -- was completely up in arms that an Ohio University employee received a 33k annual bonus at a time when employees were getting laid off. I think her job may even have been directly related to budgeting. Who could ever say? It was so long ago.

I guess the laid off employees who can go f*ck themselves now that football is involved.







+1

And the outrage over the “longevity bonus”. But now let’s dump a half million.

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GroverBall
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  Message Not Read  RE: Keep Tim Albin
   Posted: 12/4/2021 7:38:34 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
rpbobcat wrote:

It may not be the "best" use of the money.
But, given the fact that it is coming out of a surplus, certainly worth considering.


I struggle to see why it's even worth considering. What's the case for that?

What is the upside? Even at our best, don't we end up losing more money? And historically hasn't our best in football been mediocre? We haven't won a MAC Championship, and while we end up with a participation trophy of a Bowl Game (like 80+ of the 130 FBS schools) doing so just results in greater financial losses.

The case for a buyout is about accelerating the timeline by one year. But the timeline to what, exactly? What's the case for that acceleration being worth $500k?

By the way, I'm old enough to remember when this board -- a whopping 11 months ago -- was completely up in arms that an Ohio University employee received a 33k annual bonus at a time when employees were getting laid off. I think her job may even have been directly related to budgeting. Who could ever say? It was so long ago.

I guess the laid off employees who can go f*ck themselves now that football is involved.







+1

And the outrage over the “longevity bonus”. But now let’s dump a half million.



+2
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