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General Ohio University Discussion/Alumni Events
Topic:  Consolidations

Topic:  Consolidations
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74 Cat
General User

Member Since: 2/23/2005
Post Count: 91

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  Message Not Read  Consolidations
   Posted: 12/12/2021 8:36:52 AM 
It is happening in Pennsylvania.

https://www.wgal.com/article/pennsylvania-universities-ar...

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BillyTheCat
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Member Since: 10/6/2012
Post Count: 8,085

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  Message Not Read  RE: Consolidations
   Posted: 12/12/2021 9:54:00 AM 
Sounds more like a rebranding. They will still operate 6 campuses, they will keep their own Athletic teams, probably even increase administrative positions to handle the transition and to coordinate between campuses.

I would like to see where the actual cost savings is in this plan.
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OhioCatFan
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 12,182

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  Message Not Read  RE: Consolidations
   Posted: 12/12/2021 10:01:06 AM 
In Ohio, the most likely merger is KSU to take over Akron as its urban campus. This has been proposed on and off since the 1960s. Time is ripe.


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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Club Hyatt
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Alexandria, VA
Post Count: 4,376

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: Consolidations
   Posted: 12/12/2021 1:32:05 PM 
Ohio should take over Cleveland State to give it an urban campus with a law school.


Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Consolidations
   Posted: 12/12/2021 5:47:11 PM 
Again, I ask, what do you save? What is that cost benefit?
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74 Cat
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Member Since: 2/23/2005
Post Count: 91

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: Consolidations
   Posted: 12/20/2021 3:09:06 PM 
The original source of the consolidation came from a magazine (Penn Lines) that is a publication of a PA electric cooperative. That magazine is currently on line and provides a little more insight.

The current article link is:

https://www.prea.com/penn_lines_cover

The entire magazine issue link (that will allow one to drill down) is:

https://online.fliphtml5.com/sgqt/shao/#p=1
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OUPride
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Member Since: 9/21/2010
Post Count: 509

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: Consolidations
   Posted: 12/20/2021 7:18:46 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
Again, I ask, what do you save? What is that cost benefit?


Administration overhead. Not having two of everything: 2 history departments, 2 business schools, 2 nursing colleges and on and on and on. Not to mention that you don't have needless competition and empire building between two schools that are nine miles apart.

Akron and Toledo should have never been absorbed into the state system as independent universities. Rhodes did it because he had the populist notion of a four year state university within fifty miles of every Ohioan. Millett (his Regents Chair and a former Fiami Prez) wanted it because he felt that more schools offering more grad/research programs would cut off OSU at the knees and allow Miami to distinguish itself.

All in all, it was horrible public policy. At the same time, California was building the global gold standard of a state university system that was both high quality and affordable by doing the exact opposite: making things highly structured and regulated and forcing schools to stay in their lane, eliminate empire building and internal competition.
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cbus cat fan
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Member Since: 12/2/2011
Post Count: 1,153

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: Consolidations
   Posted: 12/20/2021 10:24:44 PM 
OUPride wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Again, I ask, what do you save? What is that cost benefit?


Administration overhead. Not having two of everything: 2 history departments, 2 business schools, 2 nursing colleges and on and on and on. Not to mention that you don't have needless competition and empire building between two schools that are nine miles apart.

Akron and Toledo should have never been absorbed into the state system as independent universities. Rhodes did it because he had the populist notion of a four year state university within fifty miles of every Ohioan. Millett (his Regents Chair and a former Fiami Prez) wanted it because he felt that more schools offering more grad/research programs would cut off OSU at the knees and allow Miami to distinguish itself.

All in all, it was horrible public policy. At the same time, California was building the global gold standard of a state university system that was both high quality and affordable by doing the exact opposite: making things highly structured and regulated and forcing schools to stay in their lane, eliminate empire building and internal competition.


To that end OU Pride, I was thinking about a statement I think you might have made on a past thread that our state university system offers more Phd's than does California, a state three times our size. It brought to mind a conversation I had with university official earlier this year who said explaining Ohio's vast system duplicate system is hard enough to US colleagues, let alone to colleagues from Asia and Europe. He told me they walk away looking perplexed as if something was lost in translation.

Last Edited: 12/20/2021 10:25:17 PM by cbus cat fan

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BillyTheCat
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Member Since: 10/6/2012
Post Count: 8,085

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: Consolidations
   Posted: 12/21/2021 8:03:24 AM 
OUPride wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Again, I ask, what do you save? What is that cost benefit?


Administration overhead. Not having two of everything: 2 history departments, 2 business schools, 2 nursing colleges and on and on and on. Not to mention that you don't have needless competition and empire building between two schools that are nine miles apart.

Akron and Toledo should have never been absorbed into the state system as independent universities. Rhodes did it because he had the populist notion of a four year state university within fifty miles of every Ohioan. Millett (his Regents Chair and a former Fiami Prez) wanted it because he felt that more schools offering more grad/research programs would cut off OSU at the knees and allow Miami to distinguish itself.

All in all, it was horrible public policy. At the same time, California was building the global gold standard of a state university system that was both high quality and affordable by doing the exact opposite: making things highly structured and regulated and forcing schools to stay in their lane, eliminate empire building and internal competition.


You are still going to have heads of departments because you have campuses that are miles and miles apart. You actually create more mid level management. Only savings would be to actually close the schools.
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SBH
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 3,094

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: Consolidations
   Posted: 12/21/2021 11:09:36 AM 
Hmmm, so how do large corporations operate multiple offices/plants/engineering centers worldwide? Consolidation absolutely makes sense in Ohio.

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Member Since: 7/30/2010
Post Count: 2,467

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: Consolidations
   Posted: 12/21/2021 1:30:41 PM 
Reading about the Pennsylvania consolidations, it sure sounds like there's a lot of administrative savings. Each group of three schools being consolidated will have a single President, a single student support services staff, a single academic advisory staff, career counseling staff, etc. etc.

My sense is that there's a lot of savings to be had related to non academic staff. Given the administrative bloat in higher ed, that seems like a good thing.
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Pataskala
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Member Since: 7/8/2010
Location: At least six feet away from anybody else
Post Count: 8,612

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  Message Not Read  RE: Consolidations
   Posted: 12/21/2021 6:23:50 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Reading about the Pennsylvania consolidations, it sure sounds like there's a lot of administrative savings. Each group of three schools being consolidated will have a single President, a single student support services staff, a single academic advisory staff, career counseling staff, etc. etc.

My sense is that there's a lot of savings to be had related to non academic staff. Given the administrative bloat in higher ed, that seems like a good thing.


Sounds a lot like the radio industry, where you have one general manager overseeing all the company's stations in a market or even in several smaller markets. Depending on how far apart the markets are, they can have the same sales staff, same office staff, and even the same on-air staff. Sometimes the concept works and sometimes it doesn't.


We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

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cc-cat
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Member Since: 4/5/2006
Location: matthews, NC
Post Count: 3,565

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: Consolidations
   Posted: 12/21/2021 9:10:12 PM 
The merging colleges are only 60 to 90 minutes apart (except Cali) - so expect some consolidation of instructors as well -- especially with the continuing comfort in incorporating online.
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mf279801
General User

Member Since: 8/6/2010
Location: Atlanta, GA
Post Count: 2,338

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: Consolidations
   Posted: 12/22/2021 8:34:57 AM 
cbus cat fan wrote:


To that end OU Pride, I was thinking about a statement I think you might have made on a past thread that our state university system offers more Phd's than does California, a state three times our size. It brought to mind a conversation I had with university official earlier this year who said explaining Ohio's vast system duplicate system is hard enough to US colleagues, let alone to colleagues from Asia and Europe. He told me they walk away looking perplexed as if something was lost in translation.


I have a hard time believing that duplicative PhD programs is costing programs anything. PhDs are cheap labor for a university (if paid at all) and might very well pay tuition and fees that make the university a clean profit in the end. Their instruction costs virtually nothing: some classroom time alongside masters or undergrad students who are paying full freight; meetings and advisory time with faculty who are (a) already on staff, (b) who actively want to mentor PhD students, and (c) whose own work directly benefits from the PhD studentís doctoral research activities (that last one might vary by field, but i know from personal experience how much the academic output of faculty members in biomedical research departments depends on grad students)
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Member Since: 7/30/2010
Post Count: 2,467

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: Consolidations
   Posted: 12/22/2021 1:27:27 PM 
Came across some really surprising data while trying to find the graduation rate for Ohio football players.

Of the 11 universities nationwide with the worst overall graduation rates (for all students) 2 of them are Ohio University campuses. The Southern Campus graduates just 13.7% of enrollees, and the Chillicothe campus graduates just 15.6%.

That seems shockingly low. What am I missing about those campuses? Is there some other purpose they're serving that's not reflected in graduation rates?

Last Edited: 12/22/2021 1:27:41 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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Pataskala
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Member Since: 7/8/2010
Location: At least six feet away from anybody else
Post Count: 8,612

Status: Offline

  Message Not Read  RE: Consolidations
   Posted: 12/22/2021 10:59:16 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Came across some really surprising data while trying to find the graduation rate for Ohio football players.

Of the 11 universities nationwide with the worst overall graduation rates (for all students) 2 of them are Ohio University campuses. The Southern Campus graduates just 13.7% of enrollees, and the Chillicothe campus graduates just 15.6%.

That seems shockingly low. What am I missing about those campuses? Is there some other purpose they're serving that's not reflected in graduation rates?


Is that strictly enrollees in degree programs or all students who enroll in classes? I imagine a fair percentage of people taking classes are getting just a class or two needed for their jobs. Also, does the data reflect students who start out at a branch campus then move to the Athens campus to finish their degree?


We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

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