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Topic:  You wanted players paid....Well you've got it

Topic:  You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
   Posted: 1/6/2022 8:28:23 AM 
Charlie Batch offers Caleb Williams $1million dollars to transfer to Eastern Michigan. How we going to compete with this?
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
   Posted: 1/6/2022 9:16:03 AM 
We're not. And we never have. When's the last time we signed a top 10 quarterback?

I wanted players paid because it's fair. They're talented, and I think markets that reward talent are good.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
   Posted: 1/6/2022 9:36:25 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
We're not. And we never have. When's the last time we signed a top 10 quarterback?

I wanted players paid because it's fair. They're talented, and I think markets that reward talent are good.


What's fair about it when schools in your own conference are able to link up 5, 6, 7 figure deals to land kids, when we can't. Wait until this starts happening in basketball with Buffalo and Akron, people will not see that as fair.

One thing is certain, BobcatAttack.com needs to step up to help the recruiting effort.
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colobobcat66
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  Message Not Read  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
   Posted: 1/6/2022 9:50:26 AM 
Itís not going to be a lot of fun for the fan bases of the teams that canít keep up. Between the transfer portal and pay for play, itís starting to look a lot like a pro sport.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
   Posted: 1/6/2022 10:06:30 AM 
colobobcat66 wrote:
Itís not going to be a lot of fun for the fan bases of the teams that canít keep up. Between the transfer portal and pay for play, itís starting to look a lot like a pro sport.


With yearly free agency! We are already seeing NIL money being used to get desired portal players. And more players will be entering the portal thinking they can get them some.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
   Posted: 1/6/2022 10:26:06 AM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
We're not. And we never have. When's the last time we signed a top 10 quarterback?

I wanted players paid because it's fair. They're talented, and I think markets that reward talent are good.


What's fair about it when schools in your own conference are able to link up 5, 6, 7 figure deals to land kids, when we can't. Wait until this starts happening in basketball with Buffalo and Akron, people will not see that as fair.

One thing is certain, BobcatAttack.com needs to step up to help the recruiting effort.


What's fair about an industry that generates billions of dollars of revenue and limits earnings for the group of people doing the bulk of the work? Can you name any other industry in which sometime similar is allowed? Can you name any other industry in which "fairness" involves anti-competitive market conditions so that a small, money losing program that's completely irrelevant in the scheme of the industry can compete?


You have to be through the looking glass to think that "fairness" should apply to fans of Ohio Football instead of actually human beings doing the work that generates billions of dollars.

Last Edited: 1/6/2022 10:27:33 AM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame

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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
   Posted: 1/6/2022 10:29:23 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
We're not. And we never have. When's the last time we signed a top 10 quarterback?

I wanted players paid because it's fair. They're talented, and I think markets that reward talent are good.


What's fair about it when schools in your own conference are able to link up 5, 6, 7 figure deals to land kids, when we can't. Wait until this starts happening in basketball with Buffalo and Akron, people will not see that as fair.

One thing is certain, BobcatAttack.com needs to step up to help the recruiting effort.


What's fair about an industry that generates billions of dollars of revenue and limits earnings for the group of people doing the bulk of the work? Can you name any other industry in which sometime similar is allowed? Can you name any other industry in which "fairness" involves anti-competitive market conditions so that a small, money losing program that's completely irrelevant in the scheme of the industry can compete?


You have to be through the looking glass to think that "fairness" should apply to fans of Ohio Football instead of actually human beings doing the work that generates billions of dollars.


Can you help OHIO Athletics find their billions of dollars?

And the moment that we start losing young players who have great freshmen and sophomore seasons to P's, then some will see how "fair" this is.

As for exploration, and 18 year old student athlete is getting more compensation than an 18 year old who hires on at Honda of America. And Honda makes more money than OHIO, so maybe it's the workers of the world who are being exploited.

Last Edited: 1/6/2022 10:37:40 AM by BillyTheCat

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colobobcat66
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  Message Not Read  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
   Posted: 1/6/2022 10:37:10 AM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
colobobcat66 wrote:
Itís not going to be a lot of fun for the fan bases of the teams that canít keep up. Between the transfer portal and pay for play, itís starting to look a lot like a pro sport.


With yearly free agency! We are already seeing NIL money being used to get desired portal players. And more players will be entering the portal thinking they can get them some.


But we know that the majority of players in the portal donít even find a new team-right? Look at our guys who have left. ( who were highly rated for the most part and Iím not sure they werenít justified for some reason) who are still looking for landing spots.
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
   Posted: 1/6/2022 10:41:07 AM 
colobobcat66 wrote:
Itís not going to be a lot of fun for the fan bases of the teams that canít keep up. Between the transfer portal and pay for play, itís starting to look a lot like a pro sport.


+1 I warned earlier about unintended consequences. This is just the beginning. And, I still maintain that eventually there are going to be issues related to the non-profit status of universities that are maintaining semi-pro football and/or basketball teams, notwithstanding the legal-eagles on this board telling me that that won't happen. Some of them are actual lawyers, and I'm not -- so maybe they know more than I do. We'll see.

A few more random thoughts about this issue:

1. Would not be surprised to have the NCAA say that Akron can't do this based on current NIL rules, and then a short time later rule in a case involving Ohio A&M that it's within the NIL rules.

2. Someone on here will start calling for us to drop football (or go DIII in football) and then enter the arms race in basketball with all the money we save.

3. It's now time to resurrect the GWC as an avenue to raise NIL money. One of the major rationales used by the Schaus regime for shutting down the GWC was that the NCAA was looking askance on any athletic club that was run by boosters. The only legit clubs, he told us, were those controlled by the university, hence the birth of the OBC. Now that boosters can openly raise money for NIL distribution, it seems that a booster-run club would be most appropriate in the new landscape.

4. If things continue in this direction the MAC teams in bigger cities -- UA, WMU, UT, UB and maybe to a lesser extent BSU will be at a distinct advantage, without major infusion of cash from the alumni bases of the other schools.


"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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colobobcat66
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  Message Not Read  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
   Posted: 1/6/2022 10:49:11 AM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
We're not. And we never have. When's the last time we signed a top 10 quarterback?

I wanted players paid because it's fair. They're talented, and I think markets that reward talent are good.


What's fair about it when schools in your own conference are able to link up 5, 6, 7 figure deals to land kids, when we can't. Wait until this starts happening in basketball with Buffalo and Akron, people will not see that as fair.

One thing is certain, BobcatAttack.com needs to step up to help the recruiting effort.


What's fair about an industry that generates billions of dollars of revenue and limits earnings for the group of people doing the bulk of the work? Can you name any other industry in which sometime similar is allowed? Can you name any other industry in which "fairness" involves anti-competitive market conditions so that a small, money losing program that's completely irrelevant in the scheme of the industry can compete?


You have to be through the looking glass to think that "fairness" should apply to fans of Ohio Football instead of actually human beings doing the work that generates billions of dollars.


Weíre not competing. We exist. Weíre near the bottom of the food chain, lose $10-15 million a year, and have no chance to win a championship. The big boys (and their fans) can pay the players because theyíre actually making money, we donít have that luxury.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
   Posted: 1/6/2022 10:57:20 AM 
colobobcat66 wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
colobobcat66 wrote:
Itís not going to be a lot of fun for the fan bases of the teams that canít keep up. Between the transfer portal and pay for play, itís starting to look a lot like a pro sport.


With yearly free agency! We are already seeing NIL money being used to get desired portal players. And more players will be entering the portal thinking they can get them some.


But we know that the majority of players in the portal donít even find a new team-right? Look at our guys who have left. ( who were highly rated for the most part and Iím not sure they werenít justified for some reason) who are still looking for landing spots.


Exactly, but how many of these players are basing their decisions on reality when they make them. Most everyone of these guys who enter the portal think they are moving up, hell, if you gave a survey of any DI locker room, you'd be surprised at how many think they are going to the NFL. So, now will they not only chase the upward dream, they will chase the dream of making $$$.
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CatsUp
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  Message Not Read  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
   Posted: 1/6/2022 11:06:21 AM 
2024 Joe? Just kidding. Mostly.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
   Posted: 1/6/2022 11:06:53 AM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
colobobcat66 wrote:
Itís not going to be a lot of fun for the fan bases of the teams that canít keep up. Between the transfer portal and pay for play, itís starting to look a lot like a pro sport.


+1 I warned earlier about unintended consequences. This is just the beginning. And, I still maintain that eventually there are going to be issues related to the non-profit status of universities that are maintaining semi-pro football and/or basketball teams, notwithstanding the legal-eagles on this board telling me that that won't happen. Some of them are actual lawyers, and I'm not -- so maybe they know more than I do. We'll see.

A few more random thoughts about this issue:

1. Would not be surprised to have the NCAA say that Akron can't do this based on current NIL rules, and then a short time later rule in a case involving Ohio A&M that it's within the NIL rules.

2. Someone on here will start calling for us to drop football (or go DIII in football) and then enter the arms race in basketball with all the money we save.

3. It's now time to resurrect the GWC as an avenue to raise NIL money. One of the major rationales used by the Schaus regime for shutting down the GWC was that the NCAA was looking askance on any athletic club that was run by boosters. The only legit clubs, he told us, were those controlled by the university, hence the birth of the OBC. Now that boosters can openly raise money for NIL distribution, it seems that a booster-run club would be most appropriate in the new landscape.

4. If things continue in this direction the MAC teams in bigger cities -- UA, WMU, UT, UB and maybe to a lesser extent BSU will be at a distinct advantage, without major infusion of cash from the alumni bases of the other schools.


1. Federal Law will dictate NIL, not the NCAA.

2. Be harder to compete in basketball, as don't you think a P5 would rather recruit a proven DI player with experience over a HS kid? And a defection of a quality basketball player will hurt worse. And extra budget to basketball will not help NIL money

3. A club like the GWC, could help our athletes. But as former AD's viewed it, the GWC was taking money from them.

4. And that is EXACTLY my point! Those schools all have corporate partners, and businesses.
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Buckeye to Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
   Posted: 1/6/2022 12:37:17 PM 
I hate to say this, but every athletic department should be evaluating where they want their boosters throwing the poker chips. Going all in on football seems to be a crazy prospect. Going all in on basketball however......not as much. Especially considering for $1 million, you could buy a starting 5 in the transfer portal or recruiting. Whereas if this is the market value for a QB1, the other 21 spots better do their job or that's a waste. ROI is going to matter at some point, wish we had a way to organize a way to invest wisely
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
   Posted: 1/6/2022 12:44:13 PM 
Maybe a dedicated successful player like Mike Mitchell will help us land some?
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Bobcatzblitz
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  Message Not Read  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
   Posted: 1/6/2022 1:03:12 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
Maybe a dedicated successful player like Mike Mitchell will help us land some?


Yeah if only his former HEAD Coach didnt trash him to NFL Teams. Particularly The Bears who wanted to draft him.
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The Optimist
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  Message Not Read  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
   Posted: 1/6/2022 1:39:47 PM 
Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:
I hate to say this, but every athletic department should be evaluating where they want their boosters throwing the poker chips. Going all in on football seems to be a crazy prospect. Going all in on basketball however......not as much. Especially considering for $1 million, you could buy a starting 5 in the transfer portal or recruiting. Whereas if this is the market value for a QB1, the other 21 spots better do their job or that's a waste. ROI is going to matter at some point, wish we had a way to organize a way to invest wisely


Agreed. It's a simple business matter of ROI. Better returns in basketball than football for OHIO.


I've seen crazier things happen.

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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
   Posted: 1/6/2022 1:44:41 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:

Can you help OHIO Athletics find their billions of dollars?


Nope. And in the modern history of Ohio University, nobody else has been able to either, and we've never actually been a very competitive D1 athletics program.

Some people see that and think the right thing to do is to legislate competitiveness and keep talented people from earning money on their talent. I happen to find that inherently immoral. Why should I prioritize my own desire to see OU athletics succeed over the individual success of a talented person who has earned the money they've been offered?

BillyTheCat wrote:

And the moment that we start losing young players who have great freshmen and sophomore seasons to P's, then some will see how "fair" this is.


Again, it'll be fair for the player in question. As I stated. I get nobody here's gonna be happy about it, but our happiness is not a good enough basis -- in my mind -- to steal money from people who earned it.

BillyTheCat wrote:

As for exploration, and 18 year old student athlete is getting more compensation than an 18 year old who hires on at Honda of America. And Honda makes more money than OHIO, so maybe it's the workers of the world who are being exploited.


There are ~1400 FBS football players, and a far fewer number at schools that actually generate revenue. Of those, there's an even smaller number that are star players. You're comparing the top earning FBS football player to a low-level employee at a company with 220,000 employees. How many executives do you think there are at Honda who out earn the football player. I'll give you a hint, it rhymes with a whole f*cking lot. This isn't even an apples to oranges comparison, let alone an apples to apples comparison. At least apples and oranges are both fruit. You're basically comparing an apple to. . .Honda Motors.


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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
   Posted: 1/6/2022 1:49:49 PM 
colobobcat66 wrote:
Itís not going to be a lot of fun for the fan bases of the teams that canít keep up. Between the transfer portal and pay for play, itís starting to look a lot like a pro sport.


To those looking closely, it started to look an awful lot like a pro sport a long time ago. Coaches paid exorbitant salaries, a governing earning crazy amounts, huge TV deals, 100,000 person stadiums. Like it or not, college football generates a ton of money. That so many people's interest hinges on whether or not players get access to that money seems very, very odd to me.

Because if it's amateurism that attracts you, there's plenty of that left. Go follow D3 football. But the reality is that what attracts people is the quality of the players, and the tradition of college football, which is basically impossible to disentangle from the quality of the players.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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  Message Not Read  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
   Posted: 1/6/2022 1:58:07 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:


+1 I warned earlier about unintended consequences.


This is an unintended consequence of the NCAA living with their head in the sand for the last 25 years. It's the exact intended consequence of the NIL.

The NCAA had plenty of time to figure out how to equitably ensure players received their share of the huge pool of revenue college sports creates. They didn't. And now the courts have created an unregulated market.

That's the fault of the regulating body.

OhioCatFan wrote:

2. Someone on here will start calling for us to drop football (or go DIII in football) and then enter the arms race in basketball with all the money we save.


Basically every thread in the football forum is now about how Ohio is not actually a competitive FBS football team. People can shout all they want about how it would be better if the NCAA created regulations to make us competitive, but the reality is that we haven't been. All FBS schools play by the same rules; we've been a bad one for quite a while. The NIL isn't the reason.

OhioCatFan wrote:

4. If things continue in this direction the MAC teams in bigger cities -- UA, WMU, UT, UB and maybe to a lesser extent BSU will be at a distinct advantage, without major infusion of cash from the alumni bases of the other schools.


Schools in large markets and with deep pocketed donors already had an advantage. We just went through 15 years of realignment that was basically driven by market size. The NIL just highlights the existing factions.
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colobobcat66
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  Message Not Read  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
   Posted: 1/6/2022 3:07:45 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
colobobcat66 wrote:
Itís not going to be a lot of fun for the fan bases of the teams that canít keep up. Between the transfer portal and pay for play, itís starting to look a lot like a pro sport.


To those looking closely, it started to look an awful lot like a pro sport a long time ago. Coaches paid exorbitant salaries, a governing earning crazy amounts, huge TV deals, 100,000 person stadiums. Like it or not, college football generates a ton of money. That so many people's interest hinges on whether or not players get access to that money seems very, very odd to me.

Because if it's amateurism that attracts you, there's plenty of that left. Go follow D3 football. But the reality is that what attracts people is the quality of the players, and the tradition of college football, which is basically impossible to disentangle from the quality of the players.


My point was that football does not generate a lot of money at lots of schools, the have nots are living off the backs of the big boys. They throw us a few scraps from the heap of money theyíre taking in. No doubt the sport has changed much over the last 20-30 years, but not so much at some places. The students are paying for much of our expenses now, Iím sure theyíre going to love sending more to fellow students who are getting a free ride now. Iím just wondering where the extra money will be coming from for all the new salaries.

Iím having a hard time seeing how turning the players into pros has anything to do with the tradition of college football. Itís looking less and less traditional to me.
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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
   Posted: 1/6/2022 3:10:51 PM 
Batch's offer will likely wind up to be nothing more than a publicity stunt. Caleb Williams will want to go to a place where (A) he can play for a national championship and (B) he'll be a high first-round pick in the NFL draft. EMU offers neither of those. As they say, a flower smells only as good as the manure around it and the manure at EMU is pretty raunchy for someone with Williams's aspirations. Neither Batch nor EMU has the cash to lure other good players there if they blow their wad on one elite player whose future depends on an offensive line and decent receivers. At EMU he would wind up being a ticket seller and little more. If Batch were really interested in improving EMU's lot in life, he'd offer $100,000 to ten three- or four-star players to transfer. While NIL might be sweeten the pot, what still sells elite players on a program are coaches, facilities and national championship potential.

But of course, what Batch is doing might be outside the realm of NIL, since he apparently hasn't made the million-dollar offer contingent on use of Williams's NIL. Sounds like strictly a pay-for-play scheme which is supposed to still be taboo.


We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
   Posted: 1/6/2022 7:38:03 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
...
Again, it'll be fair for the player in question. As I stated. I get nobody here's gonna be happy about it, but our happiness is not a good enough basis -- in my mind -- to steal money from people who earned it.
...

So, to make it fair, would you advocate an open negotiation for every player? I agree that some are worth far more than a full ride scholarship, but perhaps some are worth less? Given that the team as a whole operates at a loss, the overall "pay" of full ride scholars for everyone may be too much, and thus, the "fair" thing might be to increase the "pay" for the stars, and decrease it for everyone else?

Alternatively, if it is going to be treated like a business, the best choice may be to shut it down (unless those missing millions of revenue can be found).


ďWe have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.Ē ― Epictetus

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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
   Posted: 1/6/2022 8:33:15 PM 
Love the way some people act like players weren't being paid (millions) in 2020, or 2010, or 2000, or 1990, or......

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colobobcat66
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  Message Not Read  RE: You wanted players paid....Well you've got it
   Posted: 1/6/2022 9:16:44 PM 
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:

Can you help OHIO Athletics find their billions of dollars?


Nope. And in the modern history of Ohio University, nobody else has been able to either, and we've never actually been a very competitive D1 athletics program.



Youíre wrong. I can remember before the ďmodern historyĒ when we were a competitive D-1 athletics program with individual national champs, played and beat the big guys in many sports, final 8 team, etc. Those were good old days before the modern era we have now. I know we canít go back, but it was fun to be there.

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