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Topic:  RE: NIL and recruiting

Topic:  RE: NIL and recruiting
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BillyTheCat
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Member Since: 10/6/2012
Post Count: 9,478

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: NIL and recruiting
   Posted: 12/27/2022 11:32:21 AM 
Campus Flow wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Campus Flow wrote:
The NIL collectives IMO are an abuse of the principal of NIL which is sponsorships. It should be just B2S (Business to Student).


A couple of quick points:

1) You and a few others have noted the "spirit" of the NIL. I'm not sure I understand what's meant by that. The NIL isn't a single law or policy, it's a collection of many implemented by states. And those are the laws that these collectives are following. From what I can tell, the NIL isn't really a cohesive thing -- I'm not sure how one would define the "spirit" of a policy that results from so many disparate state laws. What's the spirit of the NIL? You seem to think it relates only to sponsorships, but that feels far too narrow

2) The second clause in the Ohio NIL law states that schools "Prevent a student-athlete who resides in this state and participates in intercollegiate athletics from obtaining professional representation in relation to contracts or legal matters regarding opportunities to be compensated for use of the student-athlete’s name, image, or likeness;". How do these collectives differ from professional representation? And the law certainly doesn't suggest that the relationship should be B2S -- in fact, it explicitly carves out the right of students to obtain professional representation.

Campus Flow wrote:

Is the future going to be that 10 million dollar head coaches go the way of the dinosaur if the key is a top financial package for the players?


This would strike me as an equitable and correct outcome. College coaching salaries are as high as they are -- and have grown as fast as they have -- because it's a huge industry without a free market dynamic at play anywhere but coaches salaries. So the money goes to the one place it can go.


Excellent point. As to the point made earlier by someone else, about facilities, well you really don't need these palaces that double as locker rooms. NFL facilities can't compare to college facilities, they don't have to! It's the salary that attracts them, not the size of the indoor facility.


Unless its something where the department is operationally deficient. NFL franchises aren't also in the business of competing 16-18 sports and close to 400 student athletes with walk-ons included.

On NIL its IMO it would be better for the industry if it was more restrictively defined as B2S to curtail individuals redirecting donations away from the mission of the athletic department. It wouldn't forbade it but would make it less convenient. The interpretation of the NIL ruling is what it is though.


Sounds like we should just suspend athletics?
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Alan Swank
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Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,023

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: NIL and recruiting
   Posted: 12/27/2022 5:38:51 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
Alan Swank wrote:
I wonder what the kids a local schools would think if they knew that the athletes who come to their schools for "community engagement" are now getting paid for it.

From the BPS website:


BPS Foundation, a Section 501(c)(3) organization, educates, encourages, and assists athletes in their efforts to engage with the local community through charitable causes. BPS Foundation lifts awareness of what it means to perform in a highly competitive environment by mobilizing collegiate athletes to help teach how hard work, discipline, focus, and continued education can make the young athlete’s dreams become a reality. BPS Foundation empowers these athletes to channel their energy for a common goal: to make the community where they live and play a better place.


You really think kids care? Seen Archie Griffin visit many schools for $3k and deliver great talks, and not one HS kid cared.

In regards to others, this entire thing is hilarious in the fact so many of you cheered this on when it was getting ready happened, but ignored people when they said be careful what you wish for.


BTC - I was getting at the charade of community service and outreach the local papers and the institutional PR machines love to feature. As for NIL, I've been a vocal opponent from the get go for the very reasons that are playing out before our eyes. It's a free for all with "talent" going to the highest bidder.

And finally, how much money do you think these cooperative execs and boards are raking off the top? 25% is a commonly quoted figure.
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giacomo
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Member Since: 11/20/2007
Post Count: 2,624

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: NIL and recruiting
   Posted: 12/28/2022 8:33:18 AM 
The NIL exists for two reasons. One is the outrageous salaries coaches are being paid and the players having their hands out. Two is the NCAA doesn’t want to pay players and have them be employees and all that goes with it. I think that may become a reality with the new organization the top tier of the P5 may be setting up and breaking away from the pack.

Last Edited: 12/28/2022 11:33:50 AM by giacomo
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Alan Swank
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Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,023

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  Message Not Read  RE: NIL and recruiting
   Posted: 12/29/2022 11:17:26 AM 
After reading this article/opinon piece, I'm not sure how anyone can say that NIL is a good thing as currently practiced.

https://www.si.com/college/2022/08/10/nil-collectives-boo...
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BillyTheCat
General User

Member Since: 10/6/2012
Post Count: 9,478

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: NIL and recruiting
   Posted: 12/29/2022 11:29:44 AM 
Alan Swank wrote:
After reading this article/opinon piece, I'm not sure how anyone can say that NIL is a good thing as currently practiced.

https://www.si.com/college/2022/08/10/nil-collectives-boo...


Problem is NIL is a law in 32 different states, there is nothing that the NCAA or any conference could do about this if they wanted to.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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Member Since: 7/30/2010
Post Count: 3,285

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: NIL and recruiting
   Posted: 12/29/2022 3:54:38 PM 
Alan Swank wrote:
After reading this article/opinon piece, I'm not sure how anyone can say that NIL is a good thing as currently practiced.

https://www.si.com/college/2022/08/10/nil-collectives-boo...


It depends what your priorities are. If you priority is restricting earnings to ensure parity and make college sports the best product possible, it's not a good thing.

If you think individual rights are more important, it still strikes me as a step forward.
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Campus Flow
General User



Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Alexandria, VA
Post Count: 4,952

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: NIL and recruiting
   Posted: 12/29/2022 5:55:23 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
Campus Flow wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Campus Flow wrote:
The NIL collectives IMO are an abuse of the principal of NIL which is sponsorships. It should be just B2S (Business to Student).


A couple of quick points:

1) You and a few others have noted the "spirit" of the NIL. I'm not sure I understand what's meant by that. The NIL isn't a single law or policy, it's a collection of many implemented by states. And those are the laws that these collectives are following. From what I can tell, the NIL isn't really a cohesive thing -- I'm not sure how one would define the "spirit" of a policy that results from so many disparate state laws. What's the spirit of the NIL? You seem to think it relates only to sponsorships, but that feels far too narrow

2) The second clause in the Ohio NIL law states that schools "Prevent a student-athlete who resides in this state and participates in intercollegiate athletics from obtaining professional representation in relation to contracts or legal matters regarding opportunities to be compensated for use of the student-athlete’s name, image, or likeness;". How do these collectives differ from professional representation? And the law certainly doesn't suggest that the relationship should be B2S -- in fact, it explicitly carves out the right of students to obtain professional representation.

Campus Flow wrote:

Is the future going to be that 10 million dollar head coaches go the way of the dinosaur if the key is a top financial package for the players?


This would strike me as an equitable and correct outcome. College coaching salaries are as high as they are -- and have grown as fast as they have -- because it's a huge industry without a free market dynamic at play anywhere but coaches salaries. So the money goes to the one place it can go.


Excellent point. As to the point made earlier by someone else, about facilities, well you really don't need these palaces that double as locker rooms. NFL facilities can't compare to college facilities, they don't have to! It's the salary that attracts them, not the size of the indoor facility.


Unless its something where the department is operationally deficient. NFL franchises aren't also in the business of competing 16-18 sports and close to 400 student athletes with walk-ons included.

On NIL its IMO it would be better for the industry if it was more restrictively defined as B2S to curtail individuals redirecting donations away from the mission of the athletic department. It wouldn't forbade it but would make it less convenient. The interpretation of the NIL ruling is what it is though.


Sounds like we should just suspend athletics?


I guess my thoughts are Ohio would do well to define Olympic sports that are focus sports for generating success. Put more resources behind baseball to try and drive more spectators in the spring. Ohio has tried it with volleyball to some success. Basketball and football have a crowded marketplace.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

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colobobcat66
General User

Member Since: 9/1/2006
Location: Watching the bobcats run outside my window., CO
Post Count: 4,158

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: NIL and recruiting
   Posted: 12/30/2022 11:46:46 AM 
Campus Flow wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Campus Flow wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:
Campus Flow wrote:
The NIL collectives IMO are an abuse of the principal of NIL which is sponsorships. It should be just B2S (Business to Student).


A couple of quick points:

1) You and a few others have noted the "spirit" of the NIL. I'm not sure I understand what's meant by that. The NIL isn't a single law or policy, it's a collection of many implemented by states. And those are the laws that these collectives are following. From what I can tell, the NIL isn't really a cohesive thing -- I'm not sure how one would define the "spirit" of a policy that results from so many disparate state laws. What's the spirit of the NIL? You seem to think it relates only to sponsorships, but that feels far too narrow

2) The second clause in the Ohio NIL law states that schools "Prevent a student-athlete who resides in this state and participates in intercollegiate athletics from obtaining professional representation in relation to contracts or legal matters regarding opportunities to be compensated for use of the student-athlete’s name, image, or likeness;". How do these collectives differ from professional representation? And the law certainly doesn't suggest that the relationship should be B2S -- in fact, it explicitly carves out the right of students to obtain professional representation.

Campus Flow wrote:

Is the future going to be that 10 million dollar head coaches go the way of the dinosaur if the key is a top financial package for the players?


This would strike me as an equitable and correct outcome. College coaching salaries are as high as they are -- and have grown as fast as they have -- because it's a huge industry without a free market dynamic at play anywhere but coaches salaries. So the money goes to the one place it can go.


Excellent point. As to the point made earlier by someone else, about facilities, well you really don't need these palaces that double as locker rooms. NFL facilities can't compare to college facilities, they don't have to! It's the salary that attracts them, not the size of the indoor facility.


Unless its something where the department is operationally deficient. NFL franchises aren't also in the business of competing 16-18 sports and close to 400 student athletes with walk-ons included.

On NIL its IMO it would be better for the industry if it was more restrictively defined as B2S to curtail individuals redirecting donations away from the mission of the athletic department. It wouldn't forbade it but would make it less convenient. The interpretation of the NIL ruling is what it is though.


Sounds like we should just suspend athletics?


I guess my thoughts are Ohio would do well to define Olympic sports that are focus sports for generating success. Put more resources behind baseball to try and drive more spectators in the spring. Ohio has tried it with volleyball to some success. Basketball and football have a crowded marketplace.


A small amount of the money that is now available to the big programs is being spent on the other sports like softball and baseball seemingly being the main beneficiaries. Not sure which other sports other than ice hockey and soccer as being places where much impact can be made. Ohio’’s overall athletic budget is so small relative to the big boys so it may be hard to find a niche where we can be very successful and if we are, the coaches will soon be bought to go to richer programs.
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colobobcat66
General User

Member Since: 9/1/2006
Location: Watching the bobcats run outside my window., CO
Post Count: 4,158

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: NIL and recruiting
   Posted: 12/30/2022 1:10:38 PM 
Duplicate, sorry

Last Edited: 12/30/2022 1:13:21 PM by colobobcat66
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mf279801
General User

Member Since: 8/6/2010
Location: Newark, DE
Post Count: 2,452

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: NIL and recruiting
   Posted: 6/16/2023 9:33:21 PM 
BillyTheCat wrote:
mf279801 wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
mf279801 wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Ted Thompson wrote:
The 1804 Sport Collective has launched with a focus on Ohio men's basketball. Blueprint Sports is assisting. Fans can can make tax-deductible contributions.

"The college basketball landscape is changing, and our mindset must change with it." - https://twitter.com/JeffBoals?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfwhttps://... https://t.co/07WAW2nZoq&mdash ; Pete Nakos (@Pete_Nakos96) https://twitter.com/Pete_Nakos96/status/16060238854422568...


OCF is about to burn his bobcat gear now that OHIO University is venturing into the world of professional sports.


Nope, I don't like it, but as long as it's still legal and the system we've got, I'll go along and might donate a little, but I not a fan of the whole concept, and I think as I've posted elsewhere it'll eventually go the way of the leather helmet. I don't think it's sustainable in the long run as function of higher education, perhaps hire education! ;-) I guess my view is I want OHIO to do as well as it can in the current landscape, even though I think it is very flawed. Kind of like the congressman who is against pork and votes to lessen the total amount of pork anytime he can, but when the pork is going around he makes sure that his district gets its share!



The most questionable thing here, from a regulatory perspective, is the “tax deductible” part. That’s what is and is going to continue to draw scrutiny

Edit to add: https://www.extrapointsmb.com/ncaa-nil-irs-taxes-collecti... /


That onus is on the athlete to report their income. Not the schools:

"I'm at the NCAA Convention, and I'm talking a bunch of SAAC (Student Athlete Advisory Council) athletes, and I ask them if they're disclosing deals. And they're like..., 'No.' And when I ask why not, the answer blew my mind. They said that if we disclose the deals, we'll have to pay taxes on them. If we don't disclose, we don't have to pay taxes on them. And that broke my heart."


I was speaking to the attempt of NIL collectives to structure themselves as charities so that they can market themselves to would-be donors as being a deductible charitable contribution


That is allowed, no different than any other non-profit that pays it's people.


The IRS disagrees https://www.si.com/college/2023/06/10/irs-name-image-like...
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BillyTheCat
General User

Member Since: 10/6/2012
Post Count: 9,478

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: NIL and recruiting
   Posted: 6/18/2023 9:16:52 AM 
mf279801 wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
mf279801 wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
mf279801 wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
BillyTheCat wrote:
Ted Thompson wrote:
The 1804 Sport Collective has launched with a focus on Ohio men's basketball. Blueprint Sports is assisting. Fans can can make tax-deductible contributions.

"The college basketball landscape is changing, and our mindset must change with it." - https://twitter.com/JeffBoals?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfwhttps://... https://t.co/07WAW2nZoq&mdash ; Pete Nakos (@Pete_Nakos96) https://twitter.com/Pete_Nakos96/status/16060238854422568...


OCF is about to burn his bobcat gear now that OHIO University is venturing into the world of professional sports.


Nope, I don't like it, but as long as it's still legal and the system we've got, I'll go along and might donate a little, but I not a fan of the whole concept, and I think as I've posted elsewhere it'll eventually go the way of the leather helmet. I don't think it's sustainable in the long run as function of higher education, perhaps hire education! ;-) I guess my view is I want OHIO to do as well as it can in the current landscape, even though I think it is very flawed. Kind of like the congressman who is against pork and votes to lessen the total amount of pork anytime he can, but when the pork is going around he makes sure that his district gets its share!



The most questionable thing here, from a regulatory perspective, is the “tax deductible” part. That’s what is and is going to continue to draw scrutiny

Edit to add: https://www.extrapointsmb.com/ncaa-nil-irs-taxes-collecti... /


That onus is on the athlete to report their income. Not the schools:

"I'm at the NCAA Convention, and I'm talking a bunch of SAAC (Student Athlete Advisory Council) athletes, and I ask them if they're disclosing deals. And they're like..., 'No.' And when I ask why not, the answer blew my mind. They said that if we disclose the deals, we'll have to pay taxes on them. If we don't disclose, we don't have to pay taxes on them. And that broke my heart."


I was speaking to the attempt of NIL collectives to structure themselves as charities so that they can market themselves to would-be donors as being a deductible charitable contribution


That is allowed, no different than any other non-profit that pays it's people.


The IRS disagrees https://www.si.com/college/2023/06/10/irs-name-image-like...





Nice try, at the time of the post, what I stated was true, and they were tax exempt. This decision just happened last week, as rules are subject to change. Not coincidentally, the schools lobbied hard for this.

Last Edited: 6/18/2023 9:17:43 AM by BillyTheCat
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randy
General User

Member Since: 2/23/2005
Location: along the green river, OH
Post Count: 324

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: NIL and recruiting
   Posted: 7/6/2023 10:37:56 PM 
Wowsers, that is a lot of info at once.. I think O$U (football alone) was appx. $13 Mill. last year. Its a neat read. IMO, I can't wait for football season! Sat with Coach for a minute during a "Caravan" stop. We have retained many players ,and added. We (Ohio Football) is right where we should be . Winning the MACC. get your tix and tell your friends.
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