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Topic: MAC Tourney at Q through 2023

Topic: MAC Tourney at Q through 2023

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GroverBall
General User

Member Since: 12/3/2012
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 1,281

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MAC Tourney at Q through 2023

Posted: 2/19/2015 11:36:25 AM

Contract extended another 6 years:

http://www.ohiobobcats.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/02181...

I like the Tourney in Cleveland.

Alan Swank
General User

Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,234

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RE: MAC Tourney at Q through 2023

Posted: 2/19/2015 12:07:08 PM

GroverBall wrote:

Contract extended another 6 years:

http://www.ohiobobcats.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/02181...

I like the Tourney in Cleveland.

Me two. I just wish they'd do away with the triple bye.

Tom Valentino
General User

Member Since: 3/13/2005
Location: Painesville, OH
Post Count: 277

Status: Offline

RE: MAC Tourney at Q through 2023

Posted: 2/19/2015 12:49:04 PM

I'm fine with pushing the top two teams to the semis, but the drop off between the reward you get as the 4 seed vs. being the 5 seed is ridiculous.

On Twitter: @1tomvalentino | TheNailPodcast.com

bobcat695
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Parkersburg, WV
Post Count: 1,345

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RE: MAC Tourney at Q through 2023

Posted: 2/19/2015 4:28:56 PM

If a team cannot finish in the Top 4 in the MAC regular season standings, then they just aren't a very good team that year and haven't earned much more than a participation ribbon going into the tourney. The MAC is a one-bid conference, so setting up the byes the way they do rewards teams for their body of work over the season.

"You can't un-fist a fist pump." - Saul Phillips 1/24/15

OU_Country
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Member Since: 12/6/2005
Location: On the road between Athens and Madison County
Post Count: 8,370

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RE: MAC Tourney at Q through 2023

Posted: 2/19/2015 4:47:18 PM

Tom Valentino wrote:

I'm fine with pushing the top two teams to the semis, but the drop off between the reward you get as the 4 seed vs. being the 5 seed is ridiculous.

I'm in agreement with this. Give #1 and #2 the reward to Friday, and then No's 3,4,5,6 equal byes.

I drew this up last year, but my idea was making Seeds 9,10,11,12 play each other head to head on campus Monday to go to Cleveland Wednesday. Winner of 9 vs 12 plays Seed 4, winner of 10 vs 11 plays seed 3. Seed 6 plays Seed 7, Seed 5 plays Seed 8.

If there were an easy way to post a drawing of my thought I would. It still allows the top two the Bye to Friday.

perimeterpost
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Member Since: 7/6/2010
Post Count: 3,165

Status: Offline

RE: MAC Tourney at Q through 2023

Posted: 2/19/2015 4:57:27 PM

bobcat695 wrote:

There's no truth to your statement. look at the difference between the 4 seed and the 5 seed last year-

Overall record
4 seed: 20-11
5 seed: 21-10

Conference record
4 seed: 12-6
5 seed: 11-7

Division record
4 seed: 6-4
5 seed: 6-4

Cross division record
4 seed: 6-2
5 seed: 5-3

Record vs top 2 seeds
4 seed: 0-2
5 seed: 1-3

Last year the difference between the 4 seed and the 5 seed came down to which 2 cross divisional opponents each team played twice because of the change from 16 to 18 conference games. The 4 seed played #5 and #12 twice, the 5 seed played #1 and #2 twice. With the uneven conference schedule its absurd to say that the gap between 4 and 5 is justified.

Btw, this year the current 5th seed is 1 game behind the #1 seed and is 3-0 vs the top 3 seeds, hardly a team that "isn't very good that just deserves a participation ribbon."

MY STATE. MY TEAM.

The Optimist
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Member Since: 3/16/2007
Location: CLE
Post Count: 5,597

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RE: MAC Tourney at Q through 2023

Posted: 2/19/2015 5:38:02 PM

Very happy to hear it will stay in Cleveland.

Great venue, great accessibility for the MAC overall and plenty of off-the-court offerings for fans. The atmosphere in Cleveland on MAC weekend is great. If you haven't been lately, you are missing out!

I agree with what others have stated regarding concerns with the current bye/seeding format.

Last Edited: 2/19/2015 5:38:41 PM by The Optimist

I've seen crazier things happen.

Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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Member Since: 2/3/2005
Post Count: 3,016

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RE: MAC Tourney at Q through 2023

Posted: 2/19/2015 7:19:58 PM

I'm not prepared for it to be the year 2023. That's not a real year. It's a science fiction setting.

Andrew Ruck
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Member Since: 12/22/2004
Location: Columbus, OH
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RE: MAC Tourney at Q through 2023

Posted: 2/20/2015 8:57:05 AM

Tom Valentino wrote:

I'm fine with pushing the top two teams to the semis, but the drop off between the reward you get as the 4 seed vs. being the 5 seed is ridiculous.

Thanks for bringing this up. Some of you may remember the infamous "Ruck bracket" discussed in year's past. It is a slight tweak to the current, but makes it so literally every slot has a reward beyond the next.

1-2 - Triple Bye
3-4 - Double Bye
5-6 - Single Bye
7-8 - Home Game
9-10 - Away Game
11-12 - Season Over

To me, the above is about as logical and clean as you can make it. A perfect balance between emphasizing the importance of the regular season while still having end of season tourney drama.

#RuckBracket

Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

perimeterpost
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Member Since: 7/6/2010
Post Count: 3,165

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RE: MAC Tourney at Q through 2023

Posted: 2/20/2015 9:40:34 AM

There are 32 conferences in NCAA Div 1 men's basketball, of those 32 conferences-

- only 2 conferences divide their teams into Divisions- MAC and OVC.
- only 4 conferences have 12 teams- MAC, OVC, Pac12 and Big Sky.

Of the 3 conferences with 12 members the number of conference games played is- OVC(16), MAC(18), Pac12(18), Big Sky (20).

Here's the tournament format for the other 3 conferences-

OVC- just like current MAC tournament but 4 rounds instead of 5 because only top 8 teams are invited.
Pac12- just like previous MAC tournament with 4 rounds, all 12 teams invited, top 4 seeds get a single bye.
Big Sky- top 6 teams only, 3 rounds, no byes.

The problem with the current MAC tournament structure is that it doesn't work with the uneven 18 game schedule for a 12 team conference. Both the OVC and the Pac12 understand this and avoid mixing an uneven conference schedule with a tournament with significant advantages given to the higher seeds.

The solution for the MAC is to go with one or the other and not try to mix and match.

MY STATE. MY TEAM.

JSF
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Member Since: 1/29/2005
Location: Houston, TX
Post Count: 6,554

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RE: MAC Tourney at Q through 2023

Posted: 2/20/2015 10:11:10 AM

In order to determine a problem, we first need to know what the conference's goals are when it comes to the tournament. Is it their goal to include everyone? How concerned are they with fairness? How concerned are they with protecting top teams?

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

OU_Country
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Member Since: 12/6/2005
Location: On the road between Athens and Madison County
Post Count: 8,370

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RE: MAC Tourney at Q through 2023

Posted: 2/20/2015 10:42:37 AM

Andrew Ruck wrote:

Tom Valentino wrote:

I'm fine with pushing the top two teams to the semis, but the drop off between the reward you get as the 4 seed vs. being the 5 seed is ridiculous.

I like this a lot better than the way it's done now. My ONLY problem with it (and the current format) is it kind of eliminates the four game Wed or Thurs.

OU_Country
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Member Since: 12/6/2005
Location: On the road between Athens and Madison County
Post Count: 8,370

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RE: MAC Tourney at Q through 2023

Posted: 2/20/2015 12:33:44 PM

OU_Country wrote:

I drew this up last year, but my idea was making Seeds 9,10,11,12 play each other head to head on campus Monday to go to Cleveland Wednesday. Winner of 9 vs 12 plays Seed 4, winner of 10 vs 11 plays seed 3. Seed 6 plays Seed 7, Seed 5 plays Seed 8.

If there were an easy way to post a drawing of my thought I would. It still allows the top two the Bye to Friday.

My thought drawn up - good use of lunch hour!

https://instagram.com/p/zVLHFzovlI/

mcbin
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Columbus, OH
Post Count: 951

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RE: MAC Tourney at Q through 2023

Posted: 2/20/2015 5:29:18 PM

I miss the 4 straight games days in Cleveland. It was a very fun day when that happened. This year I'd probably go up there for the four game day even if Ohio wasn't there.

But I also have no major issue with the current double/triple bye system. Not married to the idea, and won't argue with those that say it's excessive, but It's a nice big reward for a good conference record. Maybe some day as a conference we'll be good enough that we won't want to punish the 5-12th best teams. But I'm not holding my breath, and until then I'm OK with stacking the deck for the good teams.

I'd also be in favor of dumping the last couple teams as Ruck suggested too. (Shame it would be us at this point).

OhioStunter
General User

Member Since: 2/18/2005
Location: Chicago
Post Count: 2,516

Status: Offline

RE: MAC Tourney at Q through 2023

Posted: 2/20/2015 7:02:42 PM

ESPN Cleveland Radio (WKNR) mentioned this news on the Really Big Show and they raved about how this was a must-see sporting event in Cleveland -- even if you didn't go to a MAC school. They will be carrying the games on that station and OU's own Tony Rizzo will be doing one of the games...

Alan Swank
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Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,234

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RE: MAC Tourney at Q through 2023

Posted: 2/20/2015 9:05:44 PM

OhioStunter wrote:

I'd agree if you live in town but it's not worth a 3:20 drive if you don't have a dog in the fight.

The Optimist
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Member Since: 3/16/2007
Location: CLE
Post Count: 5,597

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RE: MAC Tourney at Q through 2023

Posted: 2/21/2015 9:17:01 AM

Alan Swank wrote:

OhioStunter wrote:

I'd agree if you live in town but it's not worth a 3:20 drive if you don't have a dog in the fight.

3:20 from Athens to Cleveland????

I've seen crazier things happen.

Alan Swank
General User

Member Since: 12/11/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,234

Status: Offline

RE: MAC Tourney at Q through 2023

Posted: 2/21/2015 9:30:27 AM

The Optimist wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

OhioStunter wrote:

I'd agree if you live in town but it's not worth a 3:20 drive if you don't have a dog in the fight.

3:20 from Athens to Cleveland????

Not today with all of this snow but on a dry day from my house on the east side of Athens to the East Ninth Street exit in Cleveland driving the speed limit is 3:20.

JustABobcatFan
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Member Since: 2/5/2015
Post Count: 28

Status: Offline

RE: MAC Tourney at Q through 2023

Posted: 2/21/2015 9:42:47 AM

I have to disagree, it's worth the drive. We are still planning on going this year even though Ohio probably will be lucky to make it to Thursday. But I do hate the new format. It was a blast leaving the house around 9am Thursday morning, getting there around 11:30, watch the noon and 2pm games, go get the room settled, grab a bite in the mall connected to the arena, and finishing out the night with the 7 and 9 games.

This is my 11th year straight there guys and I recommend it to everyone. It's basketball at it's greatest. And I think it's because the teams know it's do or die.

The Optimist
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Member Since: 3/16/2007
Location: CLE
Post Count: 5,597

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RE: MAC Tourney at Q through 2023

Posted: 2/21/2015 10:14:24 AM

Alan Swank wrote:

The Optimist wrote:

Alan Swank wrote:

OhioStunter wrote:

I'd agree if you live in town but it's not worth a 3:20 drive if you don't have a dog in the fight.

3:20 from Athens to Cleveland????

Not today with all of this snow but on a dry day from my house on the east side of Athens to the East Ninth Street exit in Cleveland driving the speed limit is 3:20.

I wasn't accounting for people following the speed limit.

I've seen crazier things happen.

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