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Ohio Basketball

Topic: No Flow

Topic: No Flow

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Old Zone
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Member Since: 2/28/2005
Location: Rocky River, OH
Post Count: 266

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No Flow

Posted: 1/18/2015 1:29:41 PM

Went to the game last night with friends. All agreed there was absolutely no flow to the offense. Didn't matter who was on the floor, it looked like they had just met a few minutes prior to tip-off.

Bobcat1998
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Member Since: 11/7/2012
Post Count: 2,522

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RE: No Flow

Posted: 1/18/2015 2:22:52 PM

I attended the game with a friend of mine as well -- a Kent fan -- who owes me the last few years of me saying how Kent never looked like they had an offensive flow. We both said the same thing about the Cats last night. It was an NBA style offense with a pass into the post and five seconds of the post holding the ball before making a weak move or it was long bombs. Kent, on the other hand, shared the ball and was generally better in every aspect of the game. I kept yelling for Saul to show any kind of emotion. It was embarrassing.

Steve
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Member Since: 12/1/2005
Post Count: 710

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RE: No Flow

Posted: 1/18/2015 3:33:41 PM

Bean is our second leading scorer and second on the team in minutes played but he's only been to the foul line 26 times all season. I realize putting the ball on the floor and going to the basket isn't his strength but considering how much he has the ball, that's ridiculous especially with how well he shoots free throws. So if one of the main ball handlers doesn't get to the line, it stands to reason the rest of the team doesn't either. We're way too easy to defend.

perimeterpost
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Member Since: 7/6/2010
Post Count: 3,165

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RE: No Flow

Posted: 1/18/2015 8:16:23 PM

When I think of offensive flow I think of good passing which should translate into assists. With 2 senior guards this shouldn't be a problem. I went back to the beginning of the TOS era and pulled assists for each season and how that ranked in D1. Here's how Assists this year are shaping up compared to the previous 3 regimes.-

10.9/290th ('14-'15)

15.0/43rd ('13-'14)
17.7/1st ('12-'13)

13.2/137th ('11-'12)
15.3/30th ('10-'11)
14.1/86th ('09-'10)
13.6/116th ('08-'09)

14.3/104th ('07-'08)
13.2/189th ('06-'07)
14.2/121st ('05-'06)
11.8/276th ('04-'05)
11.3/287th ('03-'04)
14.2/121st ('02-'03)
14.2/140th ('01-'02)

If you're watching the games and thinking to yourself that you can't remember the last time Ohio was so poor at sharing the ball its for good reason.

MY STATE. MY TEAM.

GraffZ06
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Member Since: 1/5/2005
Location: Dayton, OH
Post Count: 2,253

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RE: No Flow

Posted: 1/18/2015 9:38:59 PM

Of course to compare apples to apples those #'s would need to be adjusted for pace, but your hypothesis is likely to be confirmed.

RSBobcat
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Member Since: 8/22/2010
Location: Columbus, OH
Post Count: 4,437

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RE: No Flow

Posted: 1/18/2015 11:26:37 PM

GraffZ06 wrote:

Of course to compare apples to apples those #'s would need to be adjusted for pace, but your hypothesis is likely to be confirmed.

Passing and fast pace would be even better - like that D1 1st place rank year 12/13

Last Edited: 1/18/2015 11:27:20 PM by RSBobcat

RS Bobcat

JSF
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Member Since: 1/29/2005
Location: Houston, TX
Post Count: 6,554

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RE: No Flow

Posted: 1/19/2015 1:32:09 AM

GraffZ06 wrote:

Of course to compare apples to apples those #'s would need to be adjusted for pace, but your hypothesis is likely to be confirmed.

Assisted basket percentage:

2014-15: 44% (322nd nationally)
2013-14: 58% (33rd)
2012-13: 67% (3rd)
2011-12: 54% (148th)
2010-11: 59% (53rd)
2009-10: 57% (73rd)
2008-09: 61% (32nd)
2007-08: 62% (37th)

You know, it didn't seem like it, but we seemed to have moved the ball pretty well under O'Shea, at least near the end of his time.

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

GraffZ06
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Member Since: 1/5/2005
Location: Dayton, OH
Post Count: 2,253

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RE: No Flow

Posted: 1/19/2015 2:13:09 AM

Yeah I was thinking about how to quantify this better Jeff.

Certainly Assisted Basket % is one way. I think it's a good indicator of ball movement vs. 1-on-1 but it also can show that a team just isn't a very good shooting team. You can't assist shots guys don't make no matter how good the pass (same thing for a really good shooting team with a crappy pass that works anyway).

So I guess I'd like to see a combination of assist% with a pace adjusted assists per 100 possessions.

I'd compile it myself but I don't think I could even piece that together from box scores if it doesn't already exist.

Mind you, I still think in my gut it's all a quantification of what perimeter already said. Our guards aren't great distributors or creators and our offense as a whole is sub-par.

Last Edited: 1/19/2015 2:15:36 AM by GraffZ06

perimeterpost
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Member Since: 7/6/2010
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RE: No Flow

Posted: 1/19/2015 3:02:32 AM

I don't think its necessary to make it more complicated when looking at 13.5 seasons over 4 different coaches, the assumption is that pace of play was a variable as teams, coaches, and seasons changed. If we were just comparing the assist numbers of just a couple of seasons then drilling down further may be beneficial. The take away, imo, is that in spite of all of these potential variables it was never as low as it is right now.

MY STATE. MY TEAM.

OUVan
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Bethesda, MD
Post Count: 5,580

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RE: No Flow

Posted: 1/19/2015 10:22:12 AM

GraffZ06 wrote:

The ball movement also makes for better shooters. IMO we seem to hit the wide open shots we get but we don't get that many. I've said it a lot but it all comes down to our main ball handler having zero court vision and because of this he's one of the most easily defensed players we've had in recent memory. He can have big games when teams get lazy on defense against us but if they are trying we are screwed. He would not play for me but that's more about the defensive end.

OUVan
General User

Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Bethesda, MD
Post Count: 5,580

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RE: No Flow

Posted: 1/19/2015 10:26:20 AM

JSF wrote:

You know, it didn't seem like it, but we seemed to have moved the ball pretty well under O'Shea, at least near the end of his time.

I always thought we were pretty good offensively under TOS. It just seemed we lacked a certain mental and physical toughness at times.

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