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Topic: Body Language Says It all

Topic: Body Language Says It all

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FearLeon
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Member Since: 3/12/2005
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Body Language Says It all

Posted: 1/7/2015 8:57:36 PM

At the 4 minute TV timeout in the 2nd Half, I saw 5 guys with heads down WALKING from one end of the court to the other to see their coach.

Don't remember the last time I saw an OHIO team that just didn't look like it wanted to lace up the sneakers. I have a bigger issue with that than the final score.

#BleedGreen #TrentIsGOAT

Bobcat1998
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RE: Body Language Says It all

Posted: 1/7/2015 9:03:44 PM

I agree. Mo will not be an NBA player. He is displaying Ivo-like symptoms of a guy going through the motions his senior year. Bean is a talent who is forcing things and Stevie has officially quit. Toss in Treg looking like he was out of it and our freshmen providing no intensity and we were just plain depressing. You are exactly right. We will be lucky to be .500 in conference. We needed this one.

JSF
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RE: Body Language Says It all

Posted: 1/7/2015 9:04:34 PM

This really doesn't speak well of Canadian basketball.

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

PalmerFest
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RE: Body Language Says It all

Posted: 1/7/2015 9:07:40 PM

Bobcat1998 wrote:

we lost at home to NIU. No way we even sniff 500.

Bobcat1998
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RE: Body Language Says It all

Posted: 1/7/2015 9:13:54 PM

PalmerFest wrote:

Bobcat1998 wrote:

we lost at home to NIU. No way we even sniff 500.

Let's make it worse....we lost at home to NIU without their leading scorer AND a key bench player in the other Armstead!!!

LuckySparrow
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RE: Body Language Says It all

Posted: 1/7/2015 9:28:07 PM

Tonight was a miserable game.

What a day at the Convo.....Wow!

LuckySparrow
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RE: Body Language Says It all

Posted: 1/7/2015 9:32:12 PM

Saul needs to do something to get our guys pumped about playing defense. Throw in some double teams, traps, ANYTHING to break the norm and get our guys going. Can't let guys drive to the hoop 24/7. IMO, the offense will be there if the defense can pick up.

We really don't follow off ball guys out to the perimeter, instead our guys seem to settle in the middle between the hoop and opponent. LOTS of open 3s for NIU tonight.

What a day at the Convo.....Wow!

Danny's Knee
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RE: Body Language Says It all

Posted: 1/7/2015 9:33:23 PM

Bang !! .. Oh baby what a ridiculous game !!

only 7 players play ?

i've never seen anything like that .... unreal game !!

check out my avatar, it's "REALLY DO ORIGINAL" !!!!

OUcats82
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RE: Body Language Says It all

Posted: 1/7/2015 9:34:30 PM

It's going to be a rough year I think. Losing to NIU at home in football is one thing......should not happen in hoops. I think we are still a year or two out from seeing what Saul will really be able to do with the team.

Have a hard time swallowing a lack of effort.

Last Edited: 1/7/2015 10:00:19 PM by OUcats82

Ohio-The State University

PalmerFest
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RE: Body Language Says It all

Posted: 1/7/2015 9:56:35 PM

this season will be a good test for Saul's eternal optimism and peppiness.

colobobcat66
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RE: Body Language Says It all

Posted: 1/7/2015 10:02:02 PM

He's making $550,000. He'll still be positive.

OhioCatFan
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RE: Body Language Says It all

Posted: 1/7/2015 10:25:51 PM

I think we are going to see a lot of zone defense this season. We couldn't seem to adjust to it tonight.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

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RSBobcat
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RE: Body Language Says It all

Posted: 1/7/2015 10:55:47 PM

The body language drivin' me nuts is Bean slow pokin' the ball down the court to then just pick up the dribble way out top then look around for someone to make a lazy pass to, and the occasional Bean haul ass down the court to jack up a 3 from way out top before even considering a pass or penetration/dish for higher percentage shot vs the not yet set defense.......

RS Bobcat

Chicken George
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RE: Body Language Says It all

Posted: 1/7/2015 10:57:33 PM

I'll echo the same sentiments, that was hideous. Atmosphere blah; team in mourning with no sense of fight---my goodness, I don't want to overstate it with it being so recent, but that's "as bad" of an overall evening of OHIO hoops as I can remember.

A few lowlights in addition to the one's mentioned:
*NIU had an offense that required constant motion, constant slashing and a commitment to taking the ball to the rim. Our offense was, well...not sure. Four guys standing around the arch and one guy in the paint who was invisible.

*I gather it's SP philosphy to play man-to-man, but do you surrender a season trying to build that philosophy when your squad can master the basics of that scheme? Can't stop penetration and we don't help on the weak side. Maybe play some zone until you get guys on the team who can actually play man? Awful D!

*Got to lay the blame on the players as they're the guys on the court, but I think SP has to shoulder some too. I'm not saying we have the right pieces and I'm not saying we have great pieces, but the sum of the parts is greater than the output we're getting right now and that's a direct hit on the leadership. This is not a great squad, it may not even be a good squad--but it's better than this.

*Shot selection--horrid. Sense of urgency when down = none. No fight in this dog tonight.

*How does the enthusiasm of "Saul Ball" die so quick with these guys? Seemed like just a few months ago the guys were discretly saying how energized they were with an upbeat coach vs. JC---but they seem more miserable than ever now?

I've been in the camp of "this will all come together soon," and I don't want ot over react, but I'm thinking this could possibly get worse before it gets better? At this point, I have less clue than I did before and I had none before. Man, that was a rough outing.

Last Edited: 1/7/2015 10:58:43 PM by Chicken George

OU_Country
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RE: Body Language Says It all

Posted: 1/8/2015 10:01:30 AM

Chicken George wrote:

I'll echo the same sentiments, that was hideous. Atmosphere blah; team in mourning with no sense of fight---my goodness, I don't want to overstate it with it being so recent, but that's "as bad" of an overall evening of OHIO hoops as I can remember.

A few lowlights in addition to the one's mentioned:
*NIU had an offense that required constant motion, constant slashing and a commitment to taking the ball to the rim. Our offense was, well...not sure. Four guys standing around the arch and one guy in the paint who was invisible.

*I gather it's SP philosophy to play man-to-man, but do you surrender a season trying to build that philosophy when your squad can master the basics of that scheme? Can't stop penetration and we don't help on the weak side. Maybe play some zone until you get guys on the team who can actually play man? Awful D!

*Got to lay the blame on the players as they're the guys on the court, but I think SP has to shoulder some too. I'm not saying we have the right pieces and I'm not saying we have great pieces, but the sum of the parts is greater than the output we're getting right now and that's a direct hit on the leadership. This is not a great squad, it may not even be a good squad--but it's better than this.

*Shot selection--horrid. Sense of urgency when down = none. No fight in this dog tonight.

*How does the enthusiasm of "Saul Ball" die so quick with these guys? Seemed like just a few months ago the guys were discretely saying how energized they were with an upbeat coach vs. JC---but they seem more miserable than ever now?

I've been in the camp of "this will all come together soon," and I don't want to over react, but I'm thinking this could possibly get worse before it gets better? At this point, I have less clue than I did before and I had none before. Man, that was a rough outing.

I have a few things I agree with here. I've asked why they wouldn't try a zone given the length that they have. At least it would hopefully slow down the easy access to the lane.

Ultimately, the miserable look is a result of losing. At least that's my guess.

Agreeing with others in the thread, I think this season is a simple one to judge unless something changes:

*We'll go as our two senior guards go. If they don't start doing some things better, we're not going to see a more consistent team. Do we really think they're going to change over night?

*We're going to be good when our guards make lots of three's, and bad when they don't.

*In the post game, you could hear the notable frustration in Saul's voice. Reading between the lines, it's as if he said "I'm coaching them not to do make these poor in game decisions and they just keep doing it." I know, I'm just guessing, but I get that idea.

Let's remember the definition of insanity here, doing the same thing expecting a different result...at some point, it might make sense to try different things.

Pete Chouteau
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RE: Body Language Says It all

Posted: 1/8/2015 10:33:32 AM

I'm confident we mostly agree on the problem.

A solution this season is unlikely given the roster. Although, having no point guard worked for Akron last year. Until it didn't.

Catdude
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RE: Body Language Says It all

Posted: 1/8/2015 11:20:13 AM

We jack up an average of 24 3's a game!!! Wonder if we are trying to set a new NCAA record for most 3's attempted in a season? Not to mention the 68% free throw percentage. If we can't shoot successfully from the foul line, what makes these guys think they can shoot successfully from the 3 point arc and beyond.

Last Edited: 1/8/2015 11:23:28 AM by Catdude

Andrew Ruck
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RE: Body Language Says It all

Posted: 1/8/2015 11:27:12 AM

Mark Montgomery (NIU head coach) had more energy and passion than the entire Bobcat team & staff. Seriously that guy looked like his life depending on every single possession. The NIU team, bench & coaches had more drive and care to win than the entire arena.

It isn't just we aren't shooting well, we just don't have good shooters. I made the point a couple games ago, but when you consider what we lost was all high percentage shooters - Nick Kellogg, Travis Wilkins & Jon Smith. We have replaced their shots with weaker shooters taking weaker shots. It is simple math, our offense is going to suffer.

Coach said it in the post game - Ndour got 2 shots up in the 2nd half. I loved hearing him say at some point you have to recognize your shot isn't working and you might want to consider getting the ball to a guy who is as good as anyone in this league. DEAD ON. He said other things basically alluding to he has instructed them to do this and they just aren't doing it.

Aside from the occasional butterfingers, Ndour & Campbell are treasures. In the right system with the right distributors, there is no better duo in the league. And we are wasting it. It makes me sad considering the optimistic outlook for next year that Ndour won't be able to be a part of it. I'd love to see him get in there with Tony, Kaminski & Simmons.

I don't know the inner details, I just wonder how Taylor, Laster & Campbell in particular are taking it all. Are they aligning themselves with coach and looking optimistically toward the future, or are they being influeced by some unhappy incumbents who may not be too thrilled with the set up?

Remember, Groce was 15-17 in his 1st season. I'm accepting that this could be a rough year, but continue to hope they'll get better and maybe end up a bit like Groce's second year (9 seed champs).

Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

Dexcat
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RE: Body Language Says It all

Posted: 1/8/2015 11:46:32 AM

I think towards the end of the game, it may have just been fatigue. Ndour played almost the entire game. The only bench players Setty and Stevie, contributed 26 minutes combined.

With no Harley, Wadley, or Thomas (if he exists), it's a lot of minutes to put on a team. We started out the game on the right foot, players were communicating well. Towards the end of the first half, the offense became stagnant, no plays and a lot of standing around.

On a positive note, I thought Campbell played fantastic. He had some foul trouble late, seemed like he might be getting tired with their 3-4 big man rotation. Just wasn't moving his feet as fast.

GoCats105
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RE: Body Language Says It all

Posted: 1/8/2015 11:50:23 AM

Andrew Ruck wrote:

Andrew,

I was looking at the similarities between Groce's first team and Saul's. Led in scoring by two seniors and a freshmen, head-scratching losses and seemingly times of disinterest amongst the squad, etc. The main difference I found was leadership. I haven't seen any from anyone on this year's team and I'm afraid the two who are, or should be, are on the bench waiting for next year, and the other is still finding his way in his rookie season. Other than that, I haven't seen much. A lot of standing around waiting for someone to speak up, step-up and lead the team.

OUVan
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RE: Body Language Says It all

Posted: 1/8/2015 11:55:22 AM

GoCats105 wrote:

I haven't seen much. A lot of standing around waiting for someone to speak up, step-up and lead the team.

That's actually an excellent point. Last year whenever the whistle would blow Nick would call for a quick huddle. Have no clue what was said in the huddles but that isn't happening this year.

OUVan
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RE: Body Language Says It all

Posted: 1/8/2015 12:02:56 PM

Andrew Ruck wrote:

Aside from the occasional butterfingers, Ndour & Campbell are treasures. In the right system with the right distributors, there is no better duo in the league. And we are wasting it.

100% agree. I said in the chat last night that if Campbell can develop a constistent 10-12 foot shot he is a 1st team All-MAC player. If D.J. Cooper is on this team he's one this year. I see people talking about Mo not working hard enough consistently and I'm not buying it. But I do see a player or two who know that on certain possessions there is zero chance the ball finds it's way into their hands anywhere near the basket.

UpSan Bobcat
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RE: Body Language Says It all

Posted: 1/8/2015 12:20:29 PM

Andrew Ruck wrote:

I was on the floor on the first half near Montgomery. He was hard on the players. He pulled guys when they did something like taking a quick contested 3-pointer. He implored the point guard to get the ball inside. The guy responded by saying he couldn't because it would get tipped away. Montgomery did not accept that response and told him again to get it inside. NIU stopped taking the dumb jumpers they took in the first five minutes and their offense picked up big time.

bornacatfan
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RE: Body Language Says It all

Posted: 1/8/2015 4:14:51 PM

OUVan wrote:

GoCats105 wrote:

I haven't seen much. A lot of standing around waiting for someone to speak up, step-up and lead the team.

That's actually an excellent point. Last year whenever the whistle would blow Nick would call for a quick huddle. Have no clue what was said in the huddles but that isn't happening this year.

To take that point further. When Groce was Here the first of July in 08 I asked a simple question to which he answered something about recruiting winners...I said what do you mean? A simple question came back "how many rings in the locker room?" I said 2....on one guy. He promplty went out and got winners. DJ won at Seton, Kinney at Centennial, Horne at Cincy, Nick at Columbus....all from programs that taught winning and throw in McKinley as a walk on from Scioto. Growing up in a winning culture is important. Leon and Tilly were great players but they never won at lower levels and were not part of a tradition. That is gone now. It is impalpable but guys who have never had it and NOT been hungry to get there again will never understand it. Read the bios of the current guys. I think Saul will find those winners but right now he is dealing with an animal he is having a hard time getting a handle on....Guys like Nick and Deej et al knew how to win and from day one there was a difference in the locker room. Groce's first season was markedly different because he did not have guys who understood winning and the passion, desire and excitement that it brings....as well as the urgency needed.... Saul is in the same boat IMHO.

Last Edited: 1/8/2015 4:17:28 PM by bornacatfan

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boydhallbobcat
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RE: Body Language Says It all

Posted: 1/8/2015 5:27:09 PM

I thought Stevie was a leader, but I couldn't have been more wrong. A leader is someone who can lead whether he's on the floor or not. Since he's seen his playing time cut down, he's looked like someone ran over his dog. Get over it man. You have the gift of gab and people feed off your intensity. If you want to be remembered at OU on a positive note, you have to show your team, the coaches, and the fans that you trust the coach to make the right decisions and you are there for your teammates no matter what. Looking sad up at your parents in the crowd isn't helping anyone. It's not high school anymore. Be the leader we all know you can be.

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