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They settle for bad outside jumpers over and over again. They get beat down the floor immediately after making a basket. They foul near mid court late in the shot clock. They play poor help defense. They play poor transition defense. It makes me wonder what JC taught them the past few years. Players that understand the game can play in any system. This team looks selfish, lazy and undisciplined right now. I can't imagine how much Saul's blood is boiling tonight. "You can't un-fist a fist pump." - Saul Phillips 1/24/15 Back to Top RSBobcat General User Member Since: 8/22/2010 Location: Columbus, OH Post Count: 4,437 Status: Offline     RE: Low basketball IQ    Posted: 1/7/2015 10:45:19 PM  bobcat695 wrote: Our team doesn't understand how to play basketball. They do not pass the ball inside to Mo and Tony. They settle for bad outside jumpers over and over again. They get beat down the floor immediately after making a basket. They foul near mid court late in the shot clock. They play poor help defense. They play poor transition defense. It makes me wonder what JC taught them the past few years. Players that understand the game can play in any system. This team looks selfish, lazy and undisciplined right now. I can't imagine how much Saul's blood is boiling tonight. You nailed about every gripe point I thought about on the LONG drive home to Columbus. Really seems longer after that kind of game............. RS Bobcat Back to Top 100%Cat General User Member Since: 1/17/2013 Post Count: 2,630 Status: Offline     RE: Low basketball IQ    Posted: 1/8/2015 8:26:15 AM  Giving up an alley oop dunk on a break after a made basket last night was the icing on the cake for me. Back to Top GoCats105 General User Member Since: 1/31/2006 Location: Seattle, WA Post Count: 7,452 Status: Offline     RE: Low basketball IQ    Posted: 1/8/2015 8:52:00 AM  100%Cat wrote: Giving up an alley oop dunk on a break after a made basket last night was the icing on the cake for me. I'm glad I didn't see that. I would have left right after it. That should never happen. Back to Top OUVan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Bethesda, MD Post Count: 5,580 Status: Offline     RE: Low basketball IQ    Posted: 1/8/2015 8:55:30 AM  RSBobcat wrote: It makes me wonder what JC taught them the past few years. Players that understand the game can play in any system. Trying to figure how you are dumping this in JC's lap? At least JC held players accountable for selfish or stupid play. I'm not talking about mistakes. I'm talking about not being aware of anything that is going on around you as a player. I'm talking about missing opportunity after opportunity after opportunity because you've got your head down at all times and are only worried about working for your shot. It doesn't matter that Tony or Mo have just flashed open because they are working their arses off. They won't even be on your radar until their man has had the opportunity to recover. I'm talking about having a 3-on-1 break and you taking a contested shot. I'm talking about not having enough awareness to feel the pick coming on the defensive end and then not making any effort to pick up the man of guy that just slid over to stop the guy you were supposed to be covering and then watching (or not watching) that guy get an offensive rebound. We've got a lot of offensive talent on this team but you would never know it because they rarely get the ball where they need to get it to succeed. Personally I would do what JC did last year and cut the hell out of one player's minutes until he gets the message. I don't care how many points he scores. Back to Top BobcatSports General User Member Since: 2/2/2006 Post Count: 1,094 Status: Offline     RE: Low basketball IQ    Posted: 1/8/2015 9:08:50 AM  Look at the bright side. We only got beat down the floor once last nite after a made basket. In the first half alone against major-power Alcorn State I think I counted 4 uncontested break-outs against us after we made a basket. This team has been LAZY way before last nite. I get this is not the most talented group of Bobcats to ever grace the Convo. They have to be front-runners for maybe the laziest, most dis-interested group I have seen there in quite a while though. I know Saul's not a yeller and screamer type. Maybe with this bunch he needs to be. Back to Top Ohio69 General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Post Count: 3,062 Status: Offline     RE: Low basketball IQ    Posted: 1/8/2015 10:02:22 AM  http://www.bobcatattack.com/basketball/story.asp?PID=934 Coach Phillips comments in the above are interesting. Unfortunately, it appears we only have 7 players and both PG are struggling to run what Phillips wants. Tough to teach-by-benching in the current scenario. Some big flaws on what was left after JC went to BC and recruits disappeared. Definitely was going to be a tough year. But, I sure didn't expect to lose to NIU at home. Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?..... Back to Top OU_Country General User Member Since: 12/6/2005 Location: On the road between Athens and Madison County Post Count: 8,370 Status: Offline     RE: Low basketball IQ    Posted: 1/8/2015 10:16:06 AM  BobcatSports wrote: Look at the bright side. We only got beat down the floor once last nite after a made basket. In the first half alone against major-power Alcorn State I think I counted 4 uncontested break-outs against us after we made a basket. This team has been LAZY way before last nite. I get this is not the most talented group of Bobcats to ever grace the Convo. They have to be front-runners for maybe the laziest, most dis-interested group I have seen there in quite a while though. I know Saul's not a yeller and screamer type. Maybe with this bunch he needs to be. I don't want to call out any specific player for being "lazy", primarily because I personally don't know how they train, and how hard the practice. But when it comes to defense, I can give an example of a game I watched early in the season that I saw some SERIOUS effort on defense. UC hosted San Diego State. The Bearcats rarely were able to get a fast break because SDSU's kids seriously hustled back on D. For me, that's hustle and effort in the game. I'm no basketball genius in terms of X's and O's, but I can spot intensity and effort. Back to Top OUVan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Bethesda, MD Post Count: 5,580 Status: Offline     RE: Low basketball IQ    Posted: 1/8/2015 10:24:34 AM  Ohio69 wrote: Some big flaws on what was left after JC went to BC and recruits disappeared. Definitely was going to be a tough year. But, I sure didn't expect to lose to NIU at home. The strange thing is that this isn't remarkably different than what we would have had had JC stayed. Nick had an extremely high basketball IQ and even though he didn't bring the ball up the offense ran through him a lot of the time. Bean is what he is and IMO the less the ball is in his hands (except for receiving a kickout at the three point line) the better we are. Nick's value wasn't just when he had the ball either. He just knew where to go when he didn't have the ball which was big help to Stevie. Stevie would penetrate, get stopped but Nick was there in a passing lane to help. Stevie would kick it to Nick and Nick would immediately move it to someone else. It wouldn't always result in an open look but it would always make the defense move quickly which eventually will lead to an opening. You don't have to have the court vision of DJ Cooper (although it sure as heck helps) to run an effective offense. You just have to know where all your guys are and all their guys are. Watch Bean after he passes. He literally just stands there until the guy who received the pass gets stopped and then he'll move. Absolute no anticipation. Back to Top OUVan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Bethesda, MD Post Count: 5,580 Status: Offline     RE: Low basketball IQ    Posted: 1/8/2015 10:35:31 AM  Ohio69 wrote: Tough to teach-by-benching in the current scenario. Completely disagree. I don't care how big the talent gap is between player A and player Z. If player A is lazy on defense and doesn't play a team game I'm doing the rest of the players a disservice by rewarding him with playing time. Why should player D bust his butt if player A doesn't and there are no repercussions. Now is exactly the time you teach by benching. Give minutes to the walkon that is busting his butt in practice. I know Saul is all about the positives but when rainbows and butterflies isn't getting through you have to try something different. Back to Top perimeterpost General User Member Since: 7/6/2010 Post Count: 3,165 Status: Offline     RE: Low basketball IQ    Posted: 1/8/2015 10:41:34 AM  can someone clarify for me- if your team is losing by more than 3pts and you shoot the ball from more than a foot behind the 3pt line within the first 10 seconds of the shot clock and it goes in you automatically tie the score, right? Because that's what it looks like our two senior guards believe. MY STATE. MY TEAM. Back to Top OUVan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Bethesda, MD Post Count: 5,580 Status: Offline     RE: Low basketball IQ    Posted: 1/8/2015 10:46:57 AM  perimeterpost wrote: can someone clarify for me- if your team is losing by more than 3pts and you shoot the ball from more than a foot behind the 3pt line within the first 10 seconds of the shot clock and it goes in you automatically tie the score, right? Because that's what it looks like our two senior guards believe. LOL Back to Top bobcat695 General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Parkersburg, WV Post Count: 1,345 Status: Offline     RE: Low basketball IQ    Posted: 1/8/2015 1:26:09 PM  The two major problems are: Offensively there is no movement. Poor ball movement, as well as poor movement without the ball create a lot of wasted possessions. Bad shots happen when they make it easy for the defense by standing around. When the ball rarely goes inside, it makes the perimeter shots even more difficult. Defensively the team struggles with over-pursuit on the perimeter and lack of focus the entire possession. While they are impatient on the offensive side of the court, they conversely reward the other team for being patient. Almost every possession there is a breakdown before the shot clock expires. I get so frustrated watching fouls occur with less than 0:08 left on the shot clock. That is a lack of mental toughness combined with low basketball IQ. Nick Kellogg is severely missed because he was such a smart, focused player. Sometimes, it only takes one guy to lead the other four on the court. Right now, the team doesn't have that guy. "You can't un-fist a fist pump." - Saul Phillips 1/24/15 Back to Top D.A. General User Member Since: 8/6/2010 Location: Georgetown, ME Post Count: 1,190 Status: Offline     RE: Low basketball IQ    Posted: 1/8/2015 1:40:59 PM  The "who's fault is it, JC v SP" thing is pretty interesting to me, and honestly unfair to both, because if JC had stayed, the personnel situation would likely have been very different than it is today, and if all of JC's recruits have stayed, who's to say that it might not be a more difficult situation for SP than it is today? As he stated on numerous occasions, JC spent his two years somewhat trying to retain JG's philosophies, especially in year one, because he felt he owed it to the guys that were recruited by John, and they had the post season runs of success in '10/'12. Admittedly, while the team didn't make the tourney in the two years under JC, they certainly were competitive and consistent. In the transition with Saul, being on board since 4/6/14, I haven't really heard him commit to a similar strategy of retaining what JC had in place. So he has the team under his wing for seven plus months prior to the season starting, and seemingly trying to implement his system since day one. You are now two months into the season. That's a lot of quality time in the Convo with your crew, save for the first year freshmen who weren't here in April, however who are outperforming many of our upper classmen. Is the lesson to be learned that you should look to slowly implement your system, giving deference to what you are taking over, or do you just rip the band aid off and go with what you want to implement? I have no idea what the correct answer is, and just like not knowing what to expect out of this team from game to game, the more I think about it the more my head hurts. Last Edited: 1/8/2015 1:41:24 PM by D.A. The Few, The Proud, The Bobcats! And for the record, I hate tOSU, and Ricordati and Torgerson are DB's. "This isn't just another walkover from the MAC." Kirk Herbstreit, another DB, on College Football Gameday Back to Top Casper71 General User Member Since: 12/1/2006 Post Count: 3,090 Status: Offline     RE: Low basketball IQ    Posted: 1/8/2015 1:59:04 PM  I really don't know all the answers here (haha) but...were ALL these guys this stupid and lazy last year and just got bailed out by the seniors? Or, do we have a bunch of guys that just don't quite understand what is expected and are just plain tentative out there? Or, do we have a coach who has been successful, is funny, and all but has just not gotten these guys to "buy in"yet? Even the Coach says the parts or there...or is it we are not athletic enough? Seems like contradictory statements? I just THINK there is a lot of confusion on the court and in the locker room right now (again, I don't know this to be fact, I'm just guessing). I hope by March it is all ironed out and we are on a roll. Oh, and DA, I think a coach in the first years needs to adapt to his talent. Putting those square pegs in round holes seldom works. This is a thing you do at younger ages when you always have different kids on the team each year. In college, once you get your players you implement your system. I think the first year of JG, JC and SP show the way on this! Which of the three do you think was most successful in their first year? The status quo or the change agent? Last Edited: 1/8/2015 2:02:56 PM by Casper71 Back to Top GoCats105 General User Member Since: 1/31/2006 Location: Seattle, WA Post Count: 7,452 Status: Offline     RE: Low basketball IQ    Posted: 1/8/2015 2:02:27 PM  D.A. wrote: The "who's fault is it, JC v SP" thing is pretty interesting to me, and honestly unfair to both, because if JC had stayed, the personnel situation would likely have been very different than it is today, and if all of JC's recruits have stayed, who's to say that it might not be a more difficult situation for SP than it is today? As he stated on numerous occasions, JC spent his two years somewhat trying to retain JG's philosophies, especially in year one, because he felt he owed it to the guys that were recruited by John, and they had the post season runs of success in '10/'12. Admittedly, while the team didn't make the tourney in the two years under JC, they certainly were competitive and consistent. In the transition with Saul, being on board since 4/6/14, I haven't really heard him commit to a similar strategy of retaining what JC had in place. So he has the team under his wing for seven plus months prior to the season starting, and seemingly trying to implement his system since day one. You are now two months into the season. That's a lot of quality time in the Convo with your crew, save for the first year freshmen who weren't here in April, however who are outperforming many of our upper classmen. Is the lesson to be learned that you should look to slowly implement your system, giving deference to what you are taking over, or do you just rip the band aid off and go with what you want to implement? I have no idea what the correct answer is, and just like not knowing what to expect out of this team from game to game, the more I think about it the more my head hurts. That's a fair way of looking at it, but here's my thing: that's the main argument between what decides a great coach. Is a great coach someone who can adjust his system to his personnel? Or is a great coach someone who implements his system his way, but then gets the players to buy into that system? Personally, I'm more of a guy who likes a system, and the players need to adjust. It's basketball after all. At it's core, it's really the same game. Plays, defensive sets, and other stuff can be taught by their respective coaches, but simple things like anticipating an open man, getting back on D and waiting for your big to set up on the block is all basic basketball. But the mistakes we've been seeing don't look like they have anything to do with system, lately anyways. It's more about effort, energy, enthusiasm, heart, and all of the other little things. Last Edited: 1/8/2015 2:04:55 PM by GoCats105 Back to Top Jeff McKinney Moderator Member Since: 11/12/2004 Post Count: 6,155 Status: Offline     RE: Low basketball IQ    Posted: 1/8/2015 2:36:53 PM  OUVan wrote: Ohio69 wrote: Tough to teach-by-benching in the current scenario. Completely disagree. I don't care how big the talent gap is between player A and player Z. If player A is lazy on defense and doesn't play a team game I'm doing the rest of the players a disservice by rewarding him with playing time. Why should player D bust his butt if player A doesn't and there are no repercussions. Now is exactly the time you teach by benching. Give minutes to the walkon that is busting his butt in practice. I know Saul is all about the positives but when rainbows and butterflies isn't getting through you have to try something different. +1. Van is right on here. I'll add that the major breakdown didn't happen until the 1000 min mark of the second half. That's when we quit being patient and executing on offense and started chucking up desperation threes...most of them bricks...and NIU's bigs started taking over on offense. Back to Top GoCats105 General User Member Since: 1/31/2006 Location: Seattle, WA Post Count: 7,452 Status: Offline     RE: Low basketball IQ    Posted: 1/8/2015 2:40:47 PM  Jeff McKinney wrote: OUVan wrote: Ohio69 wrote: Tough to teach-by-benching in the current scenario. Completely disagree. I don't care how big the talent gap is between player A and player Z. If player A is lazy on defense and doesn't play a team game I'm doing the rest of the players a disservice by rewarding him with playing time. Why should player D bust his butt if player A doesn't and there are no repercussions. Now is exactly the time you teach by benching. Give minutes to the walkon that is busting his butt in practice. I know Saul is all about the positives but when rainbows and butterflies isn't getting through you have to try something different. +1. Van is right on here. I'll add that the major breakdown didn't happen until the 1000 min mark of the second half. That's when we quit being patient and executing on offense and started chucking up desperation threes...most of them bricks...and NIU's bigs started taking over on offense. Patience is one of the most underrated aspects of basketball. I see this especially in high school, where a lot players think the ball is a hot potato and they have to get rid of it. College is different because of the shot clock, but you can't sacrifice patience and execution just for the excuse of getting a shot off. Thirty-five seconds is a looooonngg time. Back to Top Urban Bobcat General User Member Since: 9/14/2007 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 832 Status: Offline     RE: Low basketball IQ    Posted: 1/8/2015 7:37:47 PM  This is going to be a long painful season of basketball. I think we will see a few bright spots here and there in conference play. Most likely will start to see the team we expect next season. Sadly enough the law of large numbers came into play last night. Congrats to an improving Northern Illinois team on their win. URBAN BOBCAT Back to Top RSBobcat General User Member Since: 8/22/2010 Location: Columbus, OH Post Count: 4,437 Status: Offline     RE: Low basketball IQ    Posted: 1/8/2015 8:11:40 PM  OUVan wrote: RSBobcat wrote: It makes me wonder what JC taught them the past few years. Players that understand the game can play in any system. Trying to figure how you are dumping this in JC's lap? At least JC held players accountable for selfish or stupid play. I'm not talking about mistakes. I'm talking about not being aware of anything that is going on around you as a player. I'm talking about missing opportunity after opportunity after opportunity because you've got your head down at all times and are only worried about working for your shot. It doesn't matter that Tony or Mo have just flashed open because they are working their arses off. They won't even be on your radar until their man has had the opportunity to recover. I'm talking about having a 3-on-1 break and you taking a contested shot. I'm talking about not having enough awareness to feel the pick coming on the defensive end and then not making any effort to pick up the man of guy that just slid over to stop the guy you were supposed to be covering and then watching (or not watching) that guy get an offensive rebound. We've got a lot of offensive talent on this team but you would never know it because they rarely get the ball where they need to get it to succeed. Personally I would do what JC did last year and cut the hell out of one player's minutes until he gets the message. I don't care how many points he scores. FYI - that post quote was not me - prolly issue with getting quotes edited on here these days with the site issues RS Bobcat Back to Top RSBobcat General User Member Since: 8/22/2010 Location: Columbus, OH Post Count: 4,437 Status: Offline     RE: Low basketball IQ    Posted: 1/8/2015 8:22:02 PM  I don't see how we have anything to lose by going to majority zone D. If that's not "Saul ball" in the long run who cares - go man on man only when we are up solid in a game. Go back to man on man majority next year - when hopefully we have more "men"............ RS Bobcat Back to Top OUVan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Bethesda, MD Post Count: 5,580 Status: Offline     RE: Low basketball IQ    Posted: 1/8/2015 10:19:10 PM  RSBobcat wrote: FYI - that post quote was not me - prolly issue with getting quotes edited on here these days with the site issues That was complete user error on my part. Back to Top oubobcatjohn General User Member Since: 1/1/2005 Post Count: 825 Status: Offline     RE: Low basketball IQ    Posted: 1/9/2015 3:20:02 PM  The leadership of DJ Cooper and Nick Kellogg carried this program the last five years. Those two were four year players who left their mark on the program. Our roster is made of transfers for the most part. The only four year guy is Stevie Taylor and he is a role player and not an elite player like Cooper and Kellogg. This team doesn't have players like KVK, Washington, Freeman, Keely, Baltic, Hall that where key supporting cast players that were four years guys in the program who improved thru years to be key parts of the team. Christian came in and filled holes with transfers instead of developing players over four years because he wasn't sticking around long enough to develop high school recruits and had to win now with a loaded roster he was handed. Phillips will have to struggle for a few years until he can learn the league, recruit four year players and develop those players . O'Shea had the same problem early on as he missed judged the talent needed to win in the MAC and then while on the hot seat loaded up of questionable transfers. Transfers can compliment a strong roster of four years players, but they can't be the core of the team. Right now we are a roster of transfers without a core of leaders who have been in the program 3 and 4 years. They don't have the pride or commitment like the guys that were brought here in the same recruiting class as freshmen and built something special. Ohio's teams have always been built on recruiting classes of 3 or 4 guys that came in together and grew into elite players. best example being the recruiting the class of Cooper, Baltic and Keely in 2009. Groce build his team around those three. O'Shea did the same with Fears, Troutman and Williams in 2005. Without the transfer they might not have gotten to the top, but they were leaders on the team. 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