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Topic:  Team Assesment 5 Games in

Topic:  Team Assesment 5 Games in
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71 BOBCAT
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  Message Not Read  Team Assesment 5 Games in
   Posted: 12/7/2014 8:47:19 AM 
From my vantage point at best we will be a .500 team this year. Without consistent play at the point our team will struggle. Stevie has not improved from last year. I do not see us play with any intensity, it's like we are just going through the motions.
As far as Saul's recent statement re conference play is concerned, I don't hold much hope that we will see much improvement that will effect the W-L record.
I do not hold Saul responsible as there were what 3-4 recruits for this year that backed out after JC left and the players that were left available were passed over for some reason. My concern is relative to how many years will this coaching change will effect our W-L record.


GO BOBCATS
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Alan Swank
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  Message Not Read  RE: Team Assesment 5 Games in
   Posted: 12/7/2014 9:26:16 AM 
71 BOBCAT wrote:
From my vantage point at best we will be a .500 team this year. Without consistent play at the point our team will struggle. Stevie has not improved from last year. I do not see us play with any intensity, it's like we are just going through the motions.
As far as Saul's recent statement re conference play is concerned, I don't hold much hope that we will see much improvement that will effect the W-L record.
I do not hold Saul responsible as there were what 3-4 recruits for this year that backed out after JC left and the players that were left available were passed over for some reason. My concern is relative to how many years will this coaching change will effect our W-L record.


GO BOBCATS


I'll take those players who were passed over if you mean Taylor and Laster. Too early to tell for the latter but I think the former can be very good.
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The Optimist
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  Message Not Read  RE: Team Assesment 5 Games in
   Posted: 12/7/2014 11:12:20 AM 
The MAC isn't good enough to keep us under .500

I've seen crazier things happen.

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bornacatfan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Team Assesment 5 Games in
   Posted: 12/7/2014 11:31:57 AM 
I think your vantage point is a bit pessimistic at this point. Even in a much improved MAC .500 seems to be pretty dour.

Going through the game by games, counting 2 losses to Toledo, 2 losses to buffs, 2 to EMU and splitting BG and Fiami and one more drop along the line gets you .500 in the MAC . I am not sure I see us dropping that many but that would make 10-6 that we complained about so vociferously seem pretty ok. Going into the NON con and getting it down to .500 would be a stretch too. Our RPI is 152 with a SOS of 57. I hate numbers as opposed to eyeballs and watching but I am having a hard time seeing .500.

Last Edited: 12/7/2014 11:58:28 AM by bornacatfan

never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer.....

The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game

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Urban Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Team Assesment 5 Games in
   Posted: 12/7/2014 4:01:21 PM 
We are two and three. The team has competed in all three losses. The MAC is not that strong; I think this team will continue to improve throughout the season.

URBAN BOBCAT

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El Gato Roberto
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  Message Not Read  RE: Team Assesment 5 Games in
   Posted: 12/7/2014 4:05:36 PM 
71 BOBCAT wrote:
From my vantage point at best we will be a .500 team this year. Without consistent play at the point our team will struggle. Stevie has not improved from last year. I do not see us play with any intensity, it's like we are just going through the motions.
As far as Saul's recent statement re conference play is concerned, I don't hold much hope that we will see much improvement that will effect the W-L record.
I do not hold Saul responsible as there were what 3-4 recruits for this year that backed out after JC left and the players that were left available were passed over for some reason. My concern is relative to how many years will this coaching change will effect our W-L record.


GO BOBCATS


You know, some guys would look at this glass and they would say, “You know, that glass is half empty.” Other guys would say, “That glass is half full.” I peg you as a “glass is half empty” kind of guy. Am I right?
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OUVan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Team Assesment 5 Games in
   Posted: 12/7/2014 4:15:08 PM 
New coach, new players, new roles, new system. A lot of growing is going to occur throughout the season. Right now we aren't very good. But we have a lot of pieces that are very good. Saul has his work cut out for himself trying to figure out the best way to mold those pieces into a viable unit. But some of our most memorable teams haven't been very good in December.
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stub
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  Message Not Read  RE: Team Assesment 5 Games in
   Posted: 12/7/2014 6:27:49 PM 
I'm not optimistic given our point guard possibilities and the soft defense so far, but as has been said, there is enough talent that if it could be put together, they could make some noise.

I would never right off the season. Human talent and human nature aren't always predictable. Otherwise write-off teams coming out of-say- Ann Arbor, like Appalachian St. (in football) or New Jersey Tech (in basketball) from ever getting a W.

New Jersey who?

Last Edited: 12/7/2014 6:40:01 PM by stub
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Victory
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  Message Not Read  RE: Team Assesment 5 Games in
   Posted: 12/7/2014 7:40:04 PM 
The Optimist wrote:
The MAC isn't good enough to keep us under .500


Nobody really looks terrible. Only Miami and Ohio are below .500. OUr losses are to teams with a combined record of 20-3. Miami has some worse losses but no really, really bad team has beaten them. The Redhawks look like the clear favorite for the #12 seed right now because the rest of the East looks tough and they play everyone in the East twice twice. Ball St. is .500 against a pretty weak schedule so they look like the pick right now for last in the West.

After that who looks like an easy win? CMU is 6-1 against an easy schedule. NIU, who might still be the best pick for third from last, has only lost to 5-1 DePaul and 7-1 Iowa. Iowa did beat them by 21.

The Bobcats need to get back to .500 with their next game. If they lose it would be a good indication that its going to be a long year.

Last Edited: 12/7/2014 7:42:46 PM by Victory
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perimeterpost
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  Message Not Read  RE: Team Assesment 5 Games in
   Posted: 12/7/2014 9:26:50 PM 
is everyone with a 71 in their username a dire pessimist?

MY STATE. MY TEAM.
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JSF
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  Message Not Read  RE: Team Assesment 5 Games in
   Posted: 12/8/2014 12:06:56 AM 
perimeterpost wrote:
is everyone with a 71 in their username a dire pessimist?


Must've been a bad year.

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: Team Assesment 5 Games in
   Posted: 12/8/2014 3:08:47 AM 
Kinda a transition/rebuilding year given lack of defense and clutch at guard from the returnees. I look more for player development than team winning success. Anything heavy on on the wins side is a plus.

Also, miami sucks.

And if Saul ain't got us a MACC in his tenth year, there will be some noise.

Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!


DesignspiritUSA.com
The Pets On The Go Collection of pet gear travel bags
The Holiday Tote Bigg Bagg Collection--over-sized, reversible, extra pockets; now love carrying packages as much as you love shopping!

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100%Cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Team Assesment 5 Games in
   Posted: 12/8/2014 8:51:28 AM 
I'm not on any ledges yet, way too early and we have lost to some good teams. I don't feel like I have seen any real "clunker" performances as a team. Some individually, for sure, but not collectively. If Stevie can straighten things out I think we'll be OK. If he continues to provide very little, we won't go far.

Curious basketball question for those with more knowledge: is there a strategic reason why Maurice is catching the ball so often on or near the baseline? He gets doubled so much, when he catches the ball near the baseline I'm not sure where he's supposed to be able to go with the ball. Would it make more sense to get him the ball at the high post area where he can distribute more easily, knock down mid range jumpers, and/or try to get to the rim and collapse the defense?
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OUbobcat9092
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  Message Not Read  RE: Team Assesment 5 Games in
   Posted: 12/8/2014 9:41:59 AM 
Victory wrote:
The Optimist wrote:
The MAC isn't good enough to keep us under .500


Nobody really looks terrible. Only Miami and Ohio are below .500. OUr losses are to teams with a combined record of 20-3. Miami has some worse losses but no really, really bad team has beaten them.


Miami lost to a D-2 team...

We have lost to 3 very good teams. Belmont is #6 on the Mid-Major rankings, FGCU is #15. St. Bona is not on that list b/c they don't include the A-10 in their voting.

On the Mid-Major Madness rankings (includes all non p-5 conferences) FGCU is #12, Belmont #15, St. Bona is #20.

Bring Back Men's Track & Field

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JSF
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  Message Not Read  RE: Team Assesment 5 Games in
   Posted: 12/8/2014 9:45:54 AM 
The mid-major power rankings are stupid and should be given no credence. Miami lost to a D-II team in an exhibition. While we should absolutely make fun of them for it, it's not on their record.

Also, assessment.

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Team Assesment 5 Games in
   Posted: 12/8/2014 9:48:02 AM 
100%Cat wrote:
I'm not on any ledges yet, way too early and we have lost to some good teams. I don't feel like I have seen any real "clunker" performances as a team. Some individually, for sure, but not collectively. If Stevie can straighten things out I think we'll be OK. If he continues to provide very little, we won't go far.

Curious basketball question for those with more knowledge: is there a strategic reason why Maurice is catching the ball so often on or near the baseline? He gets doubled so much, when he catches the ball near the baseline I'm not sure where he's supposed to be able to go with the ball. Would it make more sense to get him the ball at the high post area where he can distribute more easily, knock down mid range jumpers, and/or try to get to the rim and collapse the defense?


I think RSBobcat touched on this in another thread. A lot of it has to do with the guards/wings not being patient enough to get him the ball when he's ready. He's working really hard down on the low block and baseline to front his man and the ball is swung to the other side too soon.

Touching on what you said though, I wouldn't mind seeing some 2-man action between him/Wadley or him/Tony in the high post and low post. It may get kind of crowded though since our 3-pt shooting hasn't been great and the defenders may collapse down.
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Team Assesment 5 Games in
   Posted: 12/8/2014 11:34:51 AM 
GoCats105 wrote:
100%Cat wrote:
I'm not on any ledges yet, way too early and we have lost to some good teams. I don't feel like I have seen any real "clunker" performances as a team. Some individually, for sure, but not collectively. If Stevie can straighten things out I think we'll be OK. If he continues to provide very little, we won't go far.

Curious basketball question for those with more knowledge: is there a strategic reason why Maurice is catching the ball so often on or near the baseline? He gets doubled so much, when he catches the ball near the baseline I'm not sure where he's supposed to be able to go with the ball. Would it make more sense to get him the ball at the high post area where he can distribute more easily, knock down mid range jumpers, and/or try to get to the rim and collapse the defense?


I think RSBobcat touched on this in another thread. A lot of it has to do with the guards/wings not being patient enough to get him the ball when he's ready. He's working really hard down on the low block and baseline to front his man and the ball is swung to the other side too soon.

Touching on what you said though, I wouldn't mind seeing some 2-man action between him/Wadley or him/Tony in the high post and low post. It may get kind of crowded though since our 3-pt shooting hasn't been great and the defenders may collapse down.



To add to this, the ball isn't getting into Mo at the right time/place. As others noted, he got doubled a lot in this one because he's receiving the ball too late. I think given time, this will sort itself out. We've seen flashes from about every eligible scholarship player on the roster in a game or two. Now it's a matter of putting together some consistency.

I'm interested to see what effect Thomas has on this group now that he's eligible. It kind of feels like the rotations and what we're running are still in a development stage for some guys. If by the end of this month, we're playing better D, and doing more to get Mo in a position to be as good as he can be on the offensive end, I think we'll be fine. But it has to start with D, which hasn't been too good to this point.

One thing that hasn't been discussed is that in the three losses, the teams we've lost to are pretty damn good. This is an unfortunate year to have as tough a schedule as we do, but if it makes them better in Jan/Feb/March, that's fine.
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Casper71
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  Message Not Read  RE: Team Assesment 5 Games in
   Posted: 12/8/2014 12:19:01 PM 
JSF and perimeter...maybe those of us from 71 saw a bunch of good coaches, teams and Championships. We've also lived thru FB wilderness years and a bunch of coaches in both sports. So, I would say we know good coaches and good teams when we see them and we know bad coaches and bad teams when we see them. It's the eye test, you know?

Personally, I think it's too early to tell about Saul. I have only seen one game in person. I liked the way Saul handled the officials and players Saturday. He is obviously different than JC. I also really like the talent he has (even though right now much of it is from JC). I can't wait til we see him with more of "his" players. I think he could be really good. I'm also realist enough to know that this year our guard play (offensively and defensively) has not been very good and in college basketball it has to be good to really succeed.
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OUVan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Team Assesment 5 Games in
   Posted: 12/8/2014 4:07:27 PM 
Casper71 wrote:
JSF and perimeter...maybe those of us from 71 saw a bunch of good coaches, teams and Championships. We've also lived thru FB wilderness years and a bunch of coaches in both sports. So, I would say we know good coaches and good teams when we see them and we know bad coaches and bad teams when we see them. It's the eye test, you know?

Personally, I think it's too early to tell about Saul. I have only seen one game in person. I liked the way Saul handled the officials and players Saturday. He is obviously different than JC. I also really like the talent he has (even though right now much of it is from JC). I can't wait til we see him with more of "his" players. I think he could be really good. I'm also realist enough to know that this year our guard play (offensively and defensively) has not been very good and in college basketball it has to be good to really succeed.


John Groce's first season was an early struggle as well. It's up to Saul to figure out the best way to use the parts he has this year. Players also have different learning curves. If we still look like this on Feb 1 then I'll start looking to next year. As a fan I'd be willing to punt this year and give RT (already there), Mike Laster and Khari Harley (encouraging outing against St. B) significant minutes going forward. But I'm guessing Saul isn't thinking like that yet.
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El Gato Roberto
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  Message Not Read  RE: Team Assesment 5 Games in
   Posted: 12/8/2014 6:13:51 PM 
OUVan wrote:
Casper71 wrote:
JSF and perimeter...maybe those of us from 71 saw a bunch of good coaches, teams and Championships. We've also lived thru FB wilderness years and a bunch of coaches in both sports. So, I would say we know good coaches and good teams when we see them and we know bad coaches and bad teams when we see them. It's the eye test, you know?

Personally, I think it's too early to tell about Saul. I have only seen one game in person. I liked the way Saul handled the officials and players Saturday. He is obviously different than JC. I also really like the talent he has (even though right now much of it is from JC). I can't wait til we see him with more of "his" players. I think he could be really good. I'm also realist enough to know that this year our guard play (offensively and defensively) has not been very good and in college basketball it has to be good to really succeed.


John Groce's first season was an early struggle as well. It's up to Saul to figure out the best way to use the parts he has this year. Players also have different learning curves. If we still look like this on Feb 1 then I'll start looking to next year. As a fan I'd be willing to punt this year and give RT (already there), Mike Laster and Khari Harley (encouraging outing against St. B) significant minutes going forward. But I'm guessing Saul isn't thinking like that yet.



In an attempt to provide a little perspective...here is a summary of the Groce years...


Season Team Overall Conf Standing Postseason

2008–09 Ohio 15–17 7–9 6th (East)
2009–10 Ohio 22–15 7–9 5th (East) NCAA Second Round
2010–11 Ohio 19–16 9–7 3rd (East) CIT Quarterfinals
2011–12 Ohio 29–8 11–5 3rd (East) NCAA Sweet Sixteen
Totals: 85–56 (.603) 34–30 (.531)
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Victory
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  Message Not Read  RE: Team Assesment 5 Games in
   Posted: 12/8/2014 7:13:53 PM 
OUbobcat9092 wrote:
Victory wrote:
The Optimist wrote:
The MAC isn't good enough to keep us under .500


Nobody really looks terrible. Only Miami and Ohio are below .500. OUr losses are to teams with a combined record of 20-3. Miami has some worse losses but no really, really bad team has beaten them.


Miami lost to a D-2 team...

We have lost to 3 very good teams. Belmont is #6 on the Mid-Major rankings, FGCU is #15. St. Bona is not on that list b/c they don't include the A-10 in their voting.

On the Mid-Major Madness rankings (includes all non p-5 conferences) FGCU is #12, Belmont #15, St. Bona is #20.


Yes, Miami looks like the worst team in the conference by so far. I said that. But even at that the two teams in the bottom 150 or so of 351 in D1 (Liberty and Southern Utah) they have played they did manage to beat. I don't see any losses to DII schools. I'm not sure how good Elon and IUPU-Fort Wayne are but I doubt they are awful as they are both 5-2. Northwestern and Virginia Tech will be right near the bottom of the B1G and ACC and they dropped those but I don't think either is awful its just that the conferences they are in a really good. I think Miami at home is the only real game in the MAC that is approaching a gimme. But the home game with the Redhawks this year is the one of the two that is the regular season finale so who knows what they will look like then. I'd like to think that Miami & BSU on the road and NIU and CMU at home are likely wins but we don't know yet.

They jury is still out on Ohio. We've beaten bad teams and lost to three teams that should be participating in the Madness come March.
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The Optimist
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  Message Not Read  RE: Team Assesment 5 Games in
   Posted: 12/8/2014 7:37:49 PM 
Victory wrote:
The Optimist wrote:
The MAC isn't good enough to keep us under .500


Nobody really looks terrible. Only Miami and Ohio are below .500. OUr losses are to teams with a combined record of 20-3. Miami has some worse losses but no really, really bad team has beaten them. The Redhawks look like the clear favorite for the #12 seed right now because the rest of the East looks tough and they play everyone in the East twice twice. Ball St. is .500 against a pretty weak schedule so they look like the pick right now for last in the West.

After that who looks like an easy win? CMU is 6-1 against an easy schedule. NIU, who might still be the best pick for third from last, has only lost to 5-1 DePaul and 7-1 Iowa. Iowa did beat them by 21.

The Bobcats need to get back to .500 with their next game. If they lose it would be a good indication that its going to be a long year.


After I saw borna's post after mine, I thought about adding that I actually think the MAC is quite improved. I think the MAC is the best it has been in a couple years and I think it is only get better as this year continues and as we move into next year.
That said, I stand by what I said. I don't think the MAC is good enough to keep this team under .500. We've had some coach turnover, but overall I believe we have been outrecruiting the MAC the past couple years by quite a ways.

I'm not surprised to see some over-reacting to a slow start. This happens every year. Pretty sure every alum of the 71 class was angry last year too then we won 25 games. Also pretty sure I recall anger during the Groce-reign and then we went and won NCAA tournament games.
To put this in terms that Casper will understand: The MAC does not have the resources to compete. Our basketball program is superior.

We'll go into MAC play above .500 and it'll only get better from there.

Patience is a virtue.

Last Edited: 12/8/2014 7:38:40 PM by The Optimist

I've seen crazier things happen.

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Casper71
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  Message Not Read  RE: Team Assesment 5 Games in
   Posted: 12/8/2014 10:49:51 PM 
I thought last year was pretty good. I enjoyed watching them. And to paraphrase Saul on the post game show "there is a really good team in there we just need to put it together" or something close to that. I agree we have MOST of the parts and need to develop a couple others.
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RSBobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Team Assesment 5 Games in
   Posted: 12/8/2014 11:10:40 PM 
OU_Country wrote:


To add to this, the ball isn't getting into Mo at the right time/place. As others noted, he got doubled a lot in this one because he's receiving the ball too late.



^^^YES^^^

Anticipation, quick (body and mind), creative (lob, bounce, reverse, etc.), instinctive, etc. From repetition and practice, or can just be 'got it or don't got it" (AKA "Game")

Last Edited: 12/8/2014 11:13:17 PM by RSBobcat

RS Bobcat

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OhioStunter
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  Message Not Read  RE: Team Assesment 5 Games in
   Posted: 12/10/2014 10:24:02 AM 
perimeterpost wrote:
is everyone with a 71 in their username a dire pessimist?


Maybe the top 20 movies of 1971 (all very optimistic) had something to do with it (courtesy IMDB.com)

1. A Clockwork Orange (1971)
In future Britain, charismatic delinquent Alex DeLarge is jailed and volunteers for an experimental aversion therapy developed by the government in an effort to solve society's crime problem - but not all goes according to plan.

2. Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory (1971)
A poor boy wins the opportunity to tour the most eccentric and wonderful candy factory of all.

3. Fiddler on the Roof (1971)
In prerevolutionary Russia, a Jewish peasant contends with marrying off three of his daughters while growing antisemitic sentiment threatens his village.

4. The French Connection (1971)
A pair of NYC cops in the Narcotics Bureau stumble onto a drug smuggling job with a French connection.

5. Dirty Harry (1971)
When a mad man calling himself 'the Scorpio Killer' menaces the city, tough as nails San Francisco Police Inspector Harry Callahan is assigned to track down and ferret out the crazed psychopath.

6. Diamonds Are Forever (1971)
A diamond smuggling investigation leads James Bond to Las Vegas, where he uncovers an extortion plot headed by his nemesis, Ernst Stavro Blofeld.

7. THX 1138 (1971)
Set in the 25th century, the story centers around a man and a woman who rebel against their rigidly controlled society.

8. Bedknobs and Broomsticks (1971)
An apprentice witch, three kids and a cynical conman search for the missing component to a magic spell useful to the defense of Britain.

9. Harold and Maude (1971)
Young, rich, and obsessed with death, Harold finds himself changed forever when he meets lively septuagenarian Maude at a funeral.

10. Straw Dogs (1971)
A young American and his English wife come to rural England and face increasingly vicious local harassment.

11. The Last Picture Show (1971)
A group of 1950s high schoolers come of age in a bleak, isolated, atrophied West Texas town that is slowly dying, both economically and culturally.

12. Carnal Knowledge (1971)
The concurrent sexual lives of best friends Jonathan and Sandy are presented, those lives which are...

13. Escape from the Planet of the Apes (1971)
The world is shocked by the appearance of two talking chimpanzees, who arrived mysteriously in a U.S. spacecraft. They become the toast of society; but one man believes them to be a threat to the human race.

14. Vanishing Point (1971)
Kowalski works for a car delivery service. He takes delivery of a 1970 Dodge Challenger to take from Colorado to San Francisco...

15. Big Jake (1971)
The McCandles ranch is run over by a gang of cutthroats led by the evil John Fain. They kidnap little...

16. Macbeth (1971)
A ruthlessly ambitious Scottish lord siezes the throne with the help of his scheming wife and a trio of witches.

17. Shaft (1971)
Cool black private eye John Shaft is hired by a crime lord to find and retrieve his kidnapped daughter.

18. Play Misty for Me (1971)
A brief fling between a male disc jockey and an obsessed female fan takes a frightening, and perhaps even deadly turn when another woman enters the picture.

19. The Andromeda Strain (1971)
A group of scientists investigates a deadly new alien virus before it can spread.

20. Walkabout (1971)
Two young siblings are stranded in the Australian Outback and are forced to cope on their own. They meet an Australian boy on "walkabout": a ritual separation from his tribe.
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