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Topic: Power 5 conference ideas advanced

Topic: Power 5 conference ideas advanced

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bornacatfan
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Power 5 conference ideas advanced

Posted: 4/30/2014 7:21:05 PM

Have been waiting to comment on this hoping more info would come out. This, IMHO, is the beginning of the demise of the lesser conferences. I am not a sky is fallin kind of guy but in what I am reading and having been close to things over the last few decades I am pretty sure a guy like DJ Cooper NEVER makes it to OHIO. Given the situation Mom and Dad are ONLY looking at Power 5 school and there is no way OHIO is getting a crack at a kid when the FULL cost of attendance, insurance etc are considered.

Even a bottom dweller like Depaul gets the advantage of the company they keep. I have always believed OHIO should dominate the MAC and stay put racking up NCAA appearances but I am not so sure if this goes through.

BTW.....OCF .....this is that "message board fodder" you absolutely chastised me for offering up this last fall. Guess the rumblings were not so far off.

To me, this is a game changer. seems like it may be time to take a look at where we want to be. If we are to compete for championships it is going to take talent. If we can't attract those tweeners who have been choosing immediate PT and exposure over a Power 5 journey up the bench then we are not heading in the direction I thought we should be.

If it is not important enough to offer the same perks to attract those athletes as the Power5 then we are going to watch this period of Bobcat Athletics fade in the rear view. Figruring out if there is a path to displace a Depaul. Loyola

www.foxnews.com/us/2014/04/24/ncaa-board-endorses-plan-to-shift-more-power-autonomy-to-5-biggest-conferences/

www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/dennis-dodd/24532563/autonomy-defined-ncaa-boards-agenda-for-change-this-week

espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/10311275/majority-delegates-ncaa-convention-wants-power-conference-autonomy

While the list of autonomous items has not been finalized, it is likely to include issues such as providing money to students that goes uncovered by traditional scholarships; expanded insurance, including coverage for pro prospects; more resources for academic and career counseling; and funding to help athletes' families travel to NCAA tournaments. Other components that could be added include creating mandatory break times from sports, a change that would allow athletes to pursue careers away from the playing field and still maintain their eligibility and even transfer rules.

I am sure there are many thoughts out there. Whole thing is about to blow wide open IMHO. Time to rethink who we want or should be associated with and how we plan to travel, partner and compete.

never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer.....

The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game

Jeff McKinney
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RE: Power 5 conference ideas advanced

Posted: 4/30/2014 7:34:32 PM

bornacatfan wrote:

Time to rethink who we want or should be associated with and how we plan to travel, partner and compete.

Is it a matter of "wanting" or "should be", or is it a matter of "can be", based on a realistic appraisal of resources? Is it possible that our level of potential resources will force us into this fading away of mid and low majors?

OhioCatFan
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RE: Power 5 conference ideas advanced

Posted: 4/30/2014 8:14:45 PM

borna and Jeff, I still think you are both over-reacting to this. There are many bridges to cross before this becomes reality. Just wait till the lawyers weigh in on the issues involved in paying players a "stipend" and how this might jeopardize a school's tax-exempt status. I'm not one that believes that these big-time schools are going to spin-off their athletic operations as a separate entity. However, borna, I appreciate your thoughts and don't discount the possibility that you are correct in your assessment. I'm just not panicking yet.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

Jeff McKinney
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RE: Power 5 conference ideas advanced

Posted: 4/30/2014 8:22:23 PM

OCF, if you read my post, I'm simply asking a question. I'm not reacting either way. Just trying to understand.

OhioCatFan
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RE: Power 5 conference ideas advanced

Posted: 4/30/2014 8:32:08 PM

Jeff, I understand you were just asking a question, but from the tone it seemed to me you were agreeing with the general premise and just questioning whether we had the resources to retool to meet the threat.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

Mark Lembright '85
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RE: Power 5 conference ideas advanced

Posted: 4/30/2014 8:52:50 PM

I think this is a much bigger deal in football than basketball if only because the numbers are SO much smaller in basketball than football. A football team can have 85 scholarship players per team while a basketball team can have only 12 (I think) or thereabouts. There are only so many available slots for b-ball players in the Big 5 conferences to go around while there are well over 300 teams at the Division 1 level and many more available players to fill those positions. The Big 5 are already getting the majority of the cream-of-the-crop hoops players, by definition the Big 5 can only fill so many positions.

Football however is a much different story. With 85 scholarships per team and only 128 teams at the FBS level, the writing's on the wall. But I think Ohio's fate in football has been a fait accompli for quite awhile anyway, so no big surprise there. My 2 cents' worth, anyway.

Last Edited: 4/30/2014 9:06:31 PM by Mark Lembright '85

bornacatfan
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RE: Power 5 conference ideas advanced

Posted: 4/30/2014 9:42:01 PM

I understand you want to continue to poo poo the idea but you did the same when I talked about it in the fall and yet come spring the ideas of breaking away are very viable in some form or another. While I agree that there is a long way to go I think the barn door is open and the colt is about to bolt. I do agree there are going to be lots of issues and far reaching esoteric ones like ....will the IRS tax the income? .....but I think the die is cast and that creates a huge demarcation between the haves and the have nots. ... especially in the eyes of a recruit

never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer.....

The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game

The Optimist
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RE: Power 5 conference ideas advanced

Posted: 4/30/2014 11:15:19 PM

Among my favorite points of optimism is my belief that we have resources far beyond what many give OHIO credit for... All aboard the TV ratings express train.

Last Edited: 4/30/2014 11:16:02 PM by The Optimist

I've seen crazier things happen.

colobobcat66
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RE: Power 5 conference ideas advanced

Posted: 4/30/2014 11:42:50 PM

bornacatfan wrote:

I understand you want to continue to poo poo the idea but you did the same when I talked about it in the fall and yet come spring the ideas of breaking away are very viable in some form or another. While I agree that there is a long way to go I think the barn door is open and the colt is about to bolt. I do agree there are going to be lots of issues and far reaching esoteric ones like ....will the IRS tax the income? .....but I think the die is cast and that creates a huge demarcation between the haves and the have nots. ... especially in the eyes of a recruit

I agree 100% on this. Just think if the Big 5 gives an allowance for travelling for the athlete and his family for example. They'll be giving a car allowance before you know it. They've talked about increasing the number of scholarships among other things. There's really no limit (well, just the amount of money taken in) to what they can do. They will be pro players and pro teams.

I'm sure everybody saw the recent release about the Big 10 tens getting $44 million apiece, just from TV, starting in 2017. To think that we can compete with that juggernaut, in any way, is not rational. And as I've stated before it will affect all sports in a trickle down way. Pretty grim future for the have-nots as far as being able to compete.

GoCats105
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RE: Power 5 conference ideas advanced

Posted: 5/1/2014 7:54:10 AM

bornacatfan wrote:

I understand you want to continue to poo poo the idea but you did the same when I talked about it in the fall and yet come spring the ideas of breaking away are very viable in some form or another. While I agree that there is a long way to go I think the barn door is open and the colt is about to bolt. I do agree there are going to be lots of issues and far reaching esoteric ones like ....will the IRS tax the income? .....but I think the die is cast and that creates a huge demarcation between the haves and the have nots. ... especially in the eyes of a recruit

The horse is not only out of the barn, they're taking it out for test runs. It's OVA. As soon as the conferences started to shift dramatically, the barn door was opened. The talk of stipends, insurance, taxes, etc. is just another step in the process.

Personally I think Ohio and the MAC are in great shape for when the power conferences do decide to break away. They've relatively stood pat amongst all the chaos. I thought it was a bad thing at first, but realizing that Ohio will never be able to compete on that level financially, it's really not.

Jeff McKinney
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RE: Power 5 conference ideas advanced

Posted: 5/1/2014 8:56:18 AM

GoCats105: But if you are correct, how about bornacat's contention that this will lead to the demise of the mid major and low major Div. I conferences? And specificially, what do you think of bornacat's concern that in the future schools like Ohio will never be able to recruit and sign a player like D.J. Cooper...thus reducing the chance greatly that Ohio would be able to compete with Power 5 schools on the court?

Robert Fox
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RE: Power 5 conference ideas advanced

Posted: 5/1/2014 9:12:54 AM

I would hope that the "Big 5" would be perceived as minor league professionals. Those left behind, therefore, would serve as traditional college athletes, with the potential for the MAC to be at the top of that league.

100%Cat
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RE: Power 5 conference ideas advanced

Posted: 5/1/2014 9:16:25 AM

Why do I get the feeling that this type of news makes Jay Bilas feel all giddy inside?

giacomo
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RE: Power 5 conference ideas advanced

Posted: 5/1/2014 9:25:27 AM

I believe changes are coming, but not sure where it will go. Ohio and a few other states have already declared that scholarship athletes are not "employees" and therefore cannot unionize, a la the Northwestern situation. Taxes, liability for injuries, especially in football, worker's compensation, unemployment insurance, etc. etc. It will get complicated.

Ohio69
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RE: Power 5 conference ideas advanced

Posted: 5/1/2014 9:49:15 AM

This is the end
Beautiful friend
This is the end
My only friend, the end

Of our elaborate plans, the end
Of everything that stands, the end
No safety or surprise, the end
I'll never look into your eyes...again

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

Casper71
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RE: Power 5 conference ideas advanced

Posted: 5/1/2014 10:04:34 AM

Said this before and I say it again...the BIG5 guys will have corporate sponsors for their teams and pay kids like semi pro athletes back in the days of the Phillips 66 and John Deere teams. the lesser schools will go back to being the real amateurs. There is just too much money floating around in college athletics for this not to happen. Like I said, it will be the Phillips 66 Texas Longhorns, etc. in a decade or so. And, I don't see the resources/corporate pockets for an OHIO (or many others) to compete with that.

GoCats105
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RE: Power 5 conference ideas advanced

Posted: 5/1/2014 10:49:18 AM

Jeff McKinney wrote:

GoCats105: But if you are correct, how about bornacat's contention that this will lead to the demise of the mid major and low major Div. I conferences? And specificially, what do you think of bornacat's concern that in the future schools like Ohio will never be able to recruit and sign a player like D.J. Cooper...thus reducing the chance greatly that Ohio would be able to compete with Power 5 schools on the court?

I'm not so sure about a complete demise at these levels. Granted the notoriety and glamour will be with the Big 5, but there are still going to be a huge percentage of athletes that weren't "good enough" for those conferences. D.J. certainly was and is, but there will ultimately be more who aren't. Ohio, the MAC and other mid-majors aren't going anywhere. The thing that I can see changing will be television rights and how often the mid-majors are on TV. If the NCAA Tournament is given strictly to the Big 5, what happens with the NIT?

And if you believe what Bobcat Love has preached, is that they'll still need mid-majors to complete their schedules since they refuse to play each other exclusively. That is where it could get mighty interesting. How much are these conferences going to pony up to have an Ohio or Akron or Wichita State come and play them? Especially now (theoretically) that they're paying players? Does Ohio counter-offer and say "no, we want more since you broke away from us." My guess is they'll eventually just starting playing each other exclusively just to keep even more money out of mid-majors' pockets.

I think the real trouble lies with those schools stuck in the middle. They've left out UC and I can see them leaving them out for good even with the renovations to Nippert Stadium and supposed plans to either renovate or rebuild Fifth Third Arena. How can they leave out a school like UConn, which just won another National Championship? What about all those basketball-only schools of the Big East? I'd rather be in the position Ohio is in than stuck in limbo like those schools.

Last Edited: 5/1/2014 10:56:22 AM by GoCats105

OUVan
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RE: Power 5 conference ideas advanced

Posted: 5/1/2014 11:25:54 AM

While a complete split would be very disappointing it wouldn't be the end of the world. Ohio and teams like it just below the cusp will still compete at some level and it will still rule my calendar. College basketball isn't nearly as good as it used to be when players stayed through their senior years for the most part but it is just as enjoyable to watch IMO. Whatever comes next will be enjoyable to watch.

It will be interesting to see how this shakes out though. If certain schools pay players will it be disallowed at other levels and if so what happens to a player that can't make it at the higher level but has receive money? Will he/she be ineligible to play elsewhere?

Piney
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RE: Power 5 conference ideas advanced

Posted: 5/1/2014 11:52:09 AM

What people are missing is the "Power" 5 is just making new rules. The real question is what does the MAC do? I don't see anything yet saying the MAC or other conferences not in the power 5 would not be allowed to provide these additional benefits that the Power 5 want to provide. There are just more likely not be able to afford it. Who knows... this new playoff money that will go to the non-power 5 schools might be able to allow them to afford it to.

I saw some comment that the Mountain West is talking about allowing this to be optional, ie some schools providing the benefits and some that can't afford it, to not provide them. Does the MAC allow that? Then would Ohio choose to opt-in to these new rules. Could they just opt-in for basketball and not football? Those questions would have to be answered.

As for a total break away? It isn't happening. At least not in a physical break with a new division being created, as long as the Power 5 can make these new rules. They still need the smaller conferences for basketball and such. There is just going to be a financial break... schools that provide these extra benefits vs those that don't. But really... that happens now, it is just going to be more obvious.

As for recruits and getting guys like DJ Cooper... I don't think it will affect it that badly. Yes, some players will be 'only Power 5 conference' but there are so many more basketball players and so many more diamonds in the rough. BUT, the big difference will be transfers. A small school player that blows up as a freshman/sophomore will be more likely to transfer to a school that provides these extra benefits. Especially since they are also changing the transfer rules.

"If someone told me 20 years ago in my James Hall Dorm room that I would be the commencement speaker I would have told them to get out of here and make sure you put that towell back under the door"

- Matt Lauer '97 Commencement Speech

bobcat2nc
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RE: Power 5 conference ideas advanced

Posted: 5/4/2014 1:19:15 AM

When the NCAA football "playoff" system started gaining momentum I believed, and still do believe, that the power Team/conferences would not want to invite the rest of the schools to their party. I think that system will eventually create additional divisional playoff systems.

I never gave much thought to a similar phenomena in other sports. This NCAA thing has made me rethink my previous naiveté. The power of TV and the spin doctors to render the have-nots meaningless will create an entirely different look. Money talks louder than any traditions or purist ideals. I think we are fooling ourselves if we think that the future of college sports won't be dramatically changed. As an example just think about how much effort ESPN puts into discussing the NFL draft and making it an issue everyone wants to follow.

Like others have said, I think Ohio will be forced to decide if it wants (read CAN) rise to the level of a haves or if it will have to be the best of the rest. Obviously those of us on BA consider Ohio sports important and relevant. We are not typical. Most of my friends, whom I consider sports enthusiasts, do not know that JC left Ohio let alone know who the new coach is. They know John Groce only as Thad Matta's former assistant at tOSU. Hell, when Ohio played UNC in the sweet 16 there were more people in a sports bar less than 2 hours from Athens rooting for UNC than rooting for Ohio. My point is this: IF things go down the path that looks likely Ohio will have a tough time being able to turn the casual fans into fans who will financially support Ohio athletics and defend the allocation of resources so that Ohio can be one of the haves.

I hope OCF is right and this kind of talk is an over reaction. If OCF is wrong then I hope The Optimist is right and Ohio has the means to compete at the highest level. Regardless, I will be seen proudly wearing my Ohio gear.

bornacatfan
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RE: Power 5 conference ideas advancedr

Posted: 5/4/2014 9:06:23 AM

The best AD I know weighs in

http://www.athensohiotoday.com/sports/ohiouniversity/scha...

never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer.....

The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game

Mike Johnson
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RE: Power 5 conference ideas advancedr

Posted: 5/4/2014 9:23:17 AM

I believe Schaus, for whom I have great respect, during that interview might have been wearing rose-colored lenses.

http://www.facebook.com/mikejohnson.author

Alan Swank
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RE: Power 5 conference ideas advancedr

Posted: 5/4/2014 12:44:21 PM

bornacatfan wrote:

The best AD I know weighs in

http://www.athensohiotoday.com/sports/ohiouniversity/scha...

I guess you never met Mark Wilson. Agreed with Mike on the rose colored glasses. This whole thing on the cost of attendance is ridiculous. Just ask the 4000 students who graduated yesterday with tons of student loan debt. They'll tell you what the full cost of attendance is - - - for many years to come.

Ohio69
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RE: Power 5 conference ideas advancedr

Posted: 5/4/2014 12:59:34 PM

".....at our subdivision level."

Jeesh. The non Big 5 sure gave up quickly.

Hopefully we can still be included in the NCAA basketball tournament. That's where most of the fun is anyway.

As for football, well, time to get ready for being ranked in a subdivision. Total bummer as with the IPF and our increased fan base the future looked promising.

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

SBH
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RE: Power 5 conference ideas advancedr

Posted: 5/4/2014 2:17:09 PM

Mike Johnson wrote:

[QUOTE=bornacatfan]The best AD I know weighs in

http://www.athensohiotoday.com/sports/ohiouniversity/scha...]

I believe Schaus, for whom I have great respect, during that interview might have been wearing rose-colored lenses.

I agree with Mike's analysis. This is like the Munich Agreement; the Big 5 are only getting started. Our AD is a very smart guy; either he is ignoring the obvious or doesn't want to be the lone mid-major AD to raise a stink at this point. I'm sure he has higher career aspirations.

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