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Topic:  Official CIT Tournament Quarterfinals Thread: VMI

Topic:  Official CIT Tournament Quarterfinals Thread: VMI
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Ted Thompson
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  Message Not Read  Official CIT Tournament Quarterfinals Thread: VMI
   Posted: 3/23/2014 5:27:21 PM 
Use this thread to talk about anything game-related.

Date: March 26th, 2014  7:00 PM

Opponent: VMI   (21-11, 11-5 Big South)

Site: Convocation Center

TV: None

Radio:  Ohio Radio

Webcast: CollegeInsider.com (Free)

VMI's media guide, roster and statistics.  

Follow Ohio Football recruiting on the BobcatAttack.com football recruiting database.

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JSF
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official CIT Tournament Quarterfinals Thread: VMI
   Posted: 3/23/2014 5:34:45 PM 
I have wanted us to play VMI for a long time. This is very exciting.

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

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Mark Lembright '85
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official CIT Tournament Quarterfinals Thread: VMI
   Posted: 3/23/2014 5:35:29 PM 
In looking at their schedule, they lost to Elon yet beat Wright State by 20 points.  Ohio's had a much more difficult schedule it seems.
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MariettaCatFanatic
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official CIT Tournament Quarterfinals Thread: VMI
   Posted: 3/23/2014 5:46:31 PM 
Looking at Massey, these guys have played a very weak schedule. A LOT of their wins have come against teams ranked 300 or below. None the less, they seem to be playing well over the last two games beating two quality teams and they hammered Wright State by 18. Who knows. This is a game we should win at home, but we'll need to be sharp and not let ourselves get behind.

GO BOBCATS!

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Urban Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official CIT Tournament Quarterfinals Thread: VMI
   Posted: 3/23/2014 5:51:57 PM 
If Nick finds his shot that should be a nice way to flank their offensive.  

Additionally, I think our defense is a notch or two higher than they normally face.  

Nonetheless, this has the makings of another battle on the court.

Go CATS!!!

URBAN BOBCAT

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bigtillyoopsupsideurhead
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official CIT Tournament Quarterfinals Thread: VMI
   Posted: 3/23/2014 6:10:24 PM 
Entering the CIT they had only beaten one top 200 team all season (Wright State). But now they have put together two impressive wins in a row. My guess is, it is tough to prepare for them in a tournament  setting when you have never seen them before. Luckily for us we have a few extra days to prepare and heal up. 

 
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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official CIT Tournament Quarterfinals Thread: VMI
   Posted: 3/23/2014 6:30:07 PM 
I can see now what Wright's "travel difficulties" were -- they didn't want to go there again.

We had two common opponents with them this season: Longwood (each team beat them by 20+) and UNCA (we beat them by nine; they beat them by four).  Four of their 100+ games were vs non-D1 teams.  They generally put up a lot of pts vs their D1 opponents but they also gave up a lot, especially OOC.  I think we can score on them, so our D will be the key here.  They're also smallish (one guy at 6-9, two guys at 6-7, nobody else taller than 6-6) so we should take advantage of our size.

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.
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C Money
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official CIT Tournament Quarterfinals Thread: VMI
   Posted: 3/23/2014 6:41:31 PM 
Looks like VMI lives and dies by the 3-ball. #1 in attempts per game and #7 in makes per game, but only #279 in 3 pt %. Hopefully they're cold in the Convo.

Last Edited: 3/23/2014 6:47:55 PM by C Money
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Casper71
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official CIT Tournament Quarterfinals Thread: VMI
   Posted: 3/23/2014 6:54:22 PM 
Seems to me the keys are to slow the game down and defend the arc, either zone or man to man.  If we don't do that, I have a feeling they could run all night and hit 15 3s.  that would not be good!  Don't want to see a 90+ game.
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Antonio Pierce
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official CIT Tournament Quarterfinals Thread: VMI
   Posted: 3/23/2014 7:38:34 PM 
Casper71 wrote:
Seems to me the keys are to slow the game down and defend the arc, either zone or man to man.  If we don't do that, I have a feeling they could run all night and hit 15 3s.  that would not be good!  Don't want to see a 90+ game.

Might want to look at D.J. Covington and his stats, he scored 41 last game, plays forward and did no attempt a 3 pointer.  

Don't let one day define the rest of your life.

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Victory
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official CIT Tournament Quarterfinals Thread: VMI
   Posted: 3/23/2014 9:23:38 PM 
Somebody from a VMI thread is going to pop in here and feel like I'm dissing them and I want them to know I mean no disrespect.  I'm sure they are capable of beating us.  But it is really odd to be progressing through a tournament and in each round think that the next opponent is in each case on paper clearly inferior to the last.

Cleveland State had computer rankings around 100.  Wright State is more like #150,  VMI is around #200.

 
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The Optimist
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official CIT Tournament Quarterfinals Thread: VMI
   Posted: 3/23/2014 10:21:49 PM 
I say we sit in the 2-3 zone and dare them to beat us with 3s. They don't shoot a high %.

I've seen crazier things happen.

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JSF
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official CIT Tournament Quarterfinals Thread: VMI
   Posted: 3/23/2014 10:24:39 PM 
The Optimist wrote:
I say we sit in the 2-3 zone and dare them to beat us with 3s. They don't shoot a high %.


I doubt many possessions will last long enough to sit in a zone.

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

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Danny's Knee
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official CIT Tournament Quarterfinals Thread: VMI
   Posted: 3/23/2014 10:47:41 PM 
we got our hands full !!

check out my avatar, it's "REALLY DO ORIGINAL" !!!!
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UpSan Bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official CIT Tournament Quarterfinals Thread: VMI
   Posted: 3/23/2014 10:51:22 PM 
When playing a team like VMI that plays such a different style, it's important to put numbers in perspective. Of course they accumulate a lot of numbers because of the pace they play, but that doesn't really tell you anything.

VMI's offense ranks 54th in the nation in points per possession, and the Cadets play at the second-fastest tempo of any team in the nation. According to Ken Pom, their offense is 96th when adjusted for strength of schedule and pace, so that's still pretty good. Their shooting numbers are sort of middle-of-the-pack in the NCAA when you looking at true shooting and shooting efficiency, but they rarely turn it over. They're efficiency (points per possession) in road games is middle of the NCAA. A fairly high percentage of their points come on 3-pointers but they don't shoot the 3-pointer especially well. A pretty low percentage of points come at the foul line.

Defensively, they are 267th in efficiency and as expected are worse on defense on the road. Ken Pom's adjusted defense has them 284th. They don't force many turnovers considering the number of possessions. Shooting efficiencies against them are average.

Their offensive rebounding percentage is pretty average and defensive rebounding percentage is pretty poor.

Ohio's pace, by the way, is pretty much right in the middle of teams nationally. Ohio ranks #161 offensively and #65 defensively in points per possession and the Bobcats are especially hard to score on at home. Ohio's offense doesn't improve much at home vs. the road, though. Ohio has pretty good true shooting numbers but turnovers are the main reason the offense doesn't rank higher. Ohio also forces opponents into really poor true shooting numbers but only forces an average number of turnovers per possession.

The Bobcats rebound a little above average on defense but don't get many offensive boards. 
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OhioStunter
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official CIT Tournament Quarterfinals Thread: VMI
   Posted: 3/23/2014 11:29:08 PM 
Thanks for the rundown UpSan. I just hope our guys can keep up with the tempo. I think there will be a lot of substitutions to keep guys fresh/rested.
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JSF
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official CIT Tournament Quarterfinals Thread: VMI
   Posted: 3/24/2014 12:19:49 AM 
UpSan Bobcat wrote:
When playing a team like VMI that plays such a different style, it's important to put numbers in perspective. Of course they accumulate a lot of numbers because of the pace they play, but that doesn't really tell you anything.


Yep. That is why tempo-free stats are so important and so much more informative. When you play at a crazy pace, counting stats are going to pile up. But that doesn't mean they're good at what they're doing.

I think people are starting to realize points and points against per game can be misleading. The next big effort has to be on rebounds per game. That stat can be even more misleading.

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

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RSBobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official CIT Tournament Quarterfinals Thread: VMI
   Posted: 3/24/2014 12:27:29 AM 
UpSan Bobcat wrote:
 
Their offensive rebounding percentage is pretty average and defensive rebounding percentage is pretty poor.

............

The Bobcats rebound a little above average on defense but don't get many offensive boards.
 


This is how you slow them down, minimize shots taken, etc., etc. AC, Mo, Setty, Monpremier need to block out, crash boards, put an iron handle on the ball......................

RS Bobcat

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Monroe Slavin
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official CIT Tournament Quarterfinals Thread: VMI
   Posted: 3/24/2014 1:46:13 AM 
Stop their outlet passes and defend guy (a guard, presumably) trying to dribble or pass it upcourt to get the break going.  Stop the break in the backcourt instead of trying to defend it in the front court.


 

Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!


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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official CIT Tournament Quarterfinals Thread: VMI
   Posted: 3/24/2014 7:09:23 AM 
One thing we don't do well is get back on defense.  I think it's largely because of the injuries.  The leg, knee and back injuries slow us down.  The two or three healthy guys we have on the floor at any given time will need to be the ones who slow VMI down.

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.
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The Optimist
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official CIT Tournament Quarterfinals Thread: VMI
   Posted: 3/24/2014 8:40:45 AM 

JSF wrote:
The Optimist wrote:
I say we sit in the 2-3 zone and dare them to beat us with 3s. They don't shoot a high %.


I doubt many possessions will last long enough to sit in a zone.

 

If they are really completely a transition team I think we will miss Jon Smith more than normal against VMI. I love AC but he doesn't run the floor as well as our other bigs.

I've seen crazier things happen.

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Andrew Ruck
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official CIT Tournament Quarterfinals Thread: VMI
   Posted: 3/24/2014 12:57:14 PM 
ESPN has this game on Tuesday for some reason, if anyone cares to correct them.

Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

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VMI Commenter
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official CIT Tournament Quarterfinals Thread: VMI
   Posted: 3/24/2014 12:59:19 PM 
I am a VMI graduate and a follower of their basketball team (no official connection to the program/ school). I happened upon this site in anticipation of the Wednesday game and thought that I would throw my own two cents in- especially since there is no comparable message board for VMI athletics.
So I come as a visitor and with respect.
VMI has played some of its best basketball in the last two games (against Canisius and IPFW). Both teams came in rated significantly higher in the RPI and we handled them both fairly easily. A lot of that has to do, I believe, with the style of play that VMI employs. It's the classic uptempo, Paul Westhead-style. Ever since our current coach went to it, VMI has achieved success way beyond what it had done previously. It's important to note that this is all relative, that we are now averaging about 17 wins per season, after averaging about 10 prior to the "system."
Teams in the Big South have generally gotten used to it and can effectively counter it. Coastal Carolina, the tourney winner, did so and held us to a fraction of what we put up in the CIT.
I believe that the other teams, Canisius and IPFW, seemed totally unprepared for that style (even though there has been considerable national media attention to it over the years and one player in the NBA from VMI.... Reggie Williams).
So I am hoping that Ohio does the same, but that seems unlikely.
We are painfully small: three guard lineup all below or around 6 feet.
Power forwards are all small forward size.
Our center, DJ Covington, has been playing out of his mind recently. He is undersized at 6-8 but he completely took IPFW's center out of the game.
We shoot a lot of threes (and indeed don't make a very good percentage).
Did I mention that we play very little defense? Covington is a tremendous shot blocker but is prone to foul trouble. Other than that, the strategy is to go for the steal and then give up a 2.
We ran a 1-3-1 at IPFW which had some success
INTANGIBLES: similar to your squad, there seems to be a bit of "team of destiny" aura around this squad. Covington and the point guard, Rodney Glasgow, are seniors and have been eliminated in the Conference Tournament Semis or Finals in most of their years. There was thus a huge feeling of regret particularly because it is hard to recruit big men to a military school and this is Covington's last year.

CONCLUSION: It should be an interesting game and I would not be surprised at any outcome. Our road game in the first round was interesting, again, because it just seemed like Canisius looked at our RPI and the fact that VMI was a small military school and then thought it would be a cakewalk at home. We went up 15-0 and it was more or less over.

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OhioStunter
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official CIT Tournament Quarterfinals Thread: VMI
   Posted: 3/24/2014 1:08:06 PM 
VMI Commenter wrote:
I am a VMI graduate and a follower of their basketball team (no official connection to the program/ school). I happened upon this site in anticipation of the Wednesday game and thought that I would throw my own two cents in- especially since there is no comparable message board for VMI athletics.
So I come as a visitor and with respect.
VMI has played some of its best basketball in the last two games (against Canisius and IPFW). Both teams came in rated significantly higher in the RPI and we handled them both fairly easily. A lot of that has to do, I believe, with the style of play that VMI employs. It's the classic uptempo, Paul Westhead-style. Ever since our current coach went to it, VMI has achieved success way beyond what it had done previously. It's important to note that this is all relative, that we are now averaging about 17 wins per season, after averaging about 10 prior to the "system."
Teams in the Big South have generally gotten used to it and can effectively counter it. Coastal Carolina, the tourney winner, did so and held us to a fraction of what we put up in the CIT.
I believe that the other teams, Canisius and IPFW, seemed totally unprepared for that style (even though there has been considerable national media attention to it over the years and one player in the NBA from VMI.... Reggie Williams).
So I am hoping that Ohio does the same, but that seems unlikely.
We are painfully small: three guard lineup all below or around 6 feet.
Power forwards are all small forward size.
Our center, DJ Covington, has been playing out of his mind recently. He is undersized at 6-8 but he completely took IPFW's center out of the game.
We shoot a lot of threes (and indeed don't make a very good percentage).
Did I mention that we play very little defense? Covington is a tremendous shot blocker but is prone to foul trouble. Other than that, the strategy is to go for the steal and then give up a 2.
We ran a 1-3-1 at IPFW which had some success
INTANGIBLES: similar to your squad, there seems to be a bit of "team of destiny" aura around this squad. Covington and the point guard, Rodney Glasgow, are seniors and have been eliminated in the Conference Tournament Semis or Finals in most of their years. There was thus a huge feeling of regret particularly because it is hard to recruit big men to a military school and this is Covington's last year.

CONCLUSION: It should be an interesting game and I would not be surprised at any outcome. Our road game in the first round was interesting, again, because it just seemed like Canisius looked at our RPI and the fact that VMI was a small military school and then thought it would be a cakewalk at home. We went up 15-0 and it was more or less over.


Welcome aboard. Thanks for the insights and background. This should be a very entertaining game. Ohio is not taking VMI lightly. Also, Ohio is really banged up right now. Two players have broken legs -- one of them is still playing. Another starter has been battling a back injury and we just lost a senior who decided to just leave. We will likely see more playing time from Ohio's bench players in this game. Good luck to you.

 

Last Edited: 3/24/2014 1:08:39 PM by OhioStunter
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Recovering Journalist
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  Message Not Read  RE: Official CIT Tournament Quarterfinals Thread: VMI
   Posted: 3/24/2014 1:52:13 PM 
Great report from our guest VMI fan. Win or lose, I hope he sticks around a bit.
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