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Topic: Plus/minus for Toledo

Topic: Plus/minus for Toledo

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Ted Thompson
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Member Since: 11/11/2004
Location: MAC Play
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Plus/minus for Toledo

Posted: 2/2/2014 11:30:19 AM

As always, all caveats apply to plus/minus.

But someone had mentioned the runs that Toledo went on when Ndour went to the bench:
1^st Half
11:15 to 10:04 – Ohio -8

2^nd Half
13:27 to 10:54 – Ohio -7

Plus/minus for the game:
Ndour +20
Taylor +18
Kellogg +15
Smith +12
Wilkins -2
Hall -3
Campbell -9
Wilis -13
Setty -15

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UpSan Bobcat
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Member Since: 8/30/2005
Location: Upper Sandusky, OH
Post Count: 3,812

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RE: Plus/minus for Toledo

Posted: 2/2/2014 5:42:33 PM

Ted Thompson wrote:

As always, all caveats apply to plus/minus.

But someone had mentioned the runs that Toledo went on when Ndour went to the bench:
1^st Half
11:15 to 10:04 – Ohio -8

2^nd Half
13:27 to 10:54 – Ohio -7

Plus/minus for the game:
Ndour +20
Taylor +18
Kellogg +15
Smith +12
Wilkins -2
Hall -3
Campbell -9
Wilis -13
Setty -15

I guess that's pretty close to what you'd expect for any game (with the amounts relative to opponent) except that Taylor really stepped up.

Andrew Ruck
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Member Since: 12/22/2004
Location: Columbus, OH
Post Count: 5,233

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RE: Plus/minus for Toledo

Posted: 2/2/2014 9:59:44 PM

Critics be damned, I love this stat.

Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

RSBobcat
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Member Since: 8/22/2010
Location: Columbus, OH
Post Count: 4,437

Status: Offline

RE: Plus/minus for Toledo

Posted: 2/2/2014 11:02:55 PM

I really like this stat. Thanks for putting it up!

RS Bobcat

Chicken George
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Member Since: 1/2/2005
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RE: Plus/minus for Toledo

Posted: 2/2/2014 11:38:42 PM

So basically our bench is... well...not strong part of our team...

OUVan
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Bethesda, MD
Post Count: 5,580

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RE: Plus/minus for Toledo

Posted: 2/3/2014 7:34:35 PM

Andrew Ruck wrote:

Critics be damned, I love this stat.

I find it interesting as well but I'm watching the replay of the game right now and it outlines the problem with it, particularly in small sample sizes.

Mo left the game with just over 11 minutes to go in the first half with the game tied at 21 and Setty replaced him. While Setty was in there were 5 total possessions (three for Toledo and two for Ohio).

1. Ohio in zone. Weatherspoon pops up out top after Brown (I think) cuts down the lane and draws both guards down with him. Weatherspoon hits a wide-open three.

2. Travis Wilkins makes a nice move and gets an open ten foot shoot but misses. The rebound goes high in between three Rockets where they corrall it. Setty actually made a nice hustle play coming from the weak side to knock the rebound out of the Rocket's hand but it goes off the tips of his fingers out of bounds.

3. Weatherspoon gets Setty one on one down low on the right. Setty overplays Weatherspoon's left hand since he's a lefty and he gets schooled for an and 1. Great move by Weatherspoon though.

4. Easy pass from the top of the key to Bean on the elbow and he just lets it go through his hands for a turnover.

5. Williams takes Bean off the dribble and hits a circus shot in the lane. Timeout and Ndour returns.

So essentially Setty only had a negative impact on one play but gets a minus 8 in just over a minute.

Monroe Slavin
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Location: Oxnard, CA
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RE: Plus/minus for Toledo

Posted: 2/3/2014 10:55:21 PM

That was bad D by Setty on Weatherspoon in the post. He totally committed to the one side. I like Setty for sure but he got what he set himself up for there.

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cc-cat
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RE: Plus/minus for Toledo

Posted: 2/3/2014 11:11:27 PM

Excellent overview Van - the stat is also impacted by who you replace in the line-up. Since N'Dour is out, Setty is almost set up to have negative numbers. Key as you said is also "small sample."

OUVan
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RE: Plus/minus for Toledo

Posted: 2/4/2014 6:54:53 AM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

That was bad D by Setty on Weatherspoon in the post. He totally committed to the one side. I like Setty for sure but he got what he set himself up for there.

It was at that and you could see it coming as soon as he shiffed so far to his right. On the perimeter it might not be such a bad shift but that close to the basket you can't overplay that much especially since all your help is in that direction.

Andrew Ruck
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Member Since: 12/22/2004
Location: Columbus, OH
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RE: Plus/minus for Toledo

Posted: 2/4/2014 1:05:05 PM

When you look at it on a small scale as Van did, it will make your head spin and and sometimes not make a lot of sense. But the bottom line is over the long run, good players make teams better...and the way a team improves is by scoring more than their opponent. If you have a player making all kinds of mistakes on both ends of the floor all season long, it is bound to show up in a poor plus/minus for the season eventually.

What I'm trying to say is, my post last week showing the totals for the year was a much much better post than Ted's post here.

Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

Casper71
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Member Since: 12/1/2006
Post Count: 3,090

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RE: Plus/minus for Toledo

Posted: 2/4/2014 3:14:46 PM

Also, as I recall, in the first half I believe JC had Setty, bean and c-bell ALL in at the same time (2 FOULS ON SMITH AND RESTING NDOUR AND STEVIE). I seriously couldn't figure out what that lineup was doing out there at the same time. My feeling is you can never have more than 2 of those guys on the court at the same time. Preferrably only one. But, I do understand that situations sometimes dictate substitutions. that just didn't seem to make much sense at the time.

100%Cat
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Post Count: 2,630

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RE: Plus/minus for Toledo

Posted: 2/4/2014 3:43:37 PM

Casper71 wrote:

I remember that and believe I said out loud, "Where are the points going to come from with this group on the floor?"

RSBobcat
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Member Since: 8/22/2010
Location: Columbus, OH
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RE: Plus/minus for Toledo

Posted: 2/5/2014 12:54:45 AM

100%Cat wrote:

Casper71 wrote:

I remember that and believe I said out loud, "Where are the points going to come from with this group on the floor?"

What I said can't be repeated on here................

RS Bobcat

Monroe Slavin
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Oxnard, CA
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RE: Plus/minus for Toledo

Posted: 2/5/2014 2:51:53 AM

I like Bean, Setty, Campbell from somewhat to a lot but the +/- per minute in that short stretch that they were on the floor together must have been some kind of high, negative number.

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