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Topic: (OT) Ware's injury

Topic: (OT) Ware's injury

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Pataskala
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(OT) Ware's injury

Posted: 3/31/2013 11:36:03 PM

God that was awful. It immediately brought back memories of Lawrence Taylor falling on Joe Theissman. It's also a reminder that athletes, like race horses, can be pretty delicate sometimes. Fortunately he's a lot younger than Theissman was so he should be quicker to heal, but it still puts his whole career in question right now. My thoughts are with him tonight.

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

OhioStunter
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RE: (OT) Ware's injury

Posted: 4/1/2013 12:07:39 AM

That was awful. Theissman was watching it live. USA Today had an article about it.

100%Cat
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RE: (OT) Ware's injury

Posted: 4/1/2013 8:01:12 AM

I have never seen anything that bad. I was almost sick when I saw it happen. The kid is just a sophomore, hopefully this injury doesn't completely derail his career.

C Money
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RE: (OT) Ware's injury

Posted: 4/1/2013 10:44:18 AM

Theisman gets the hype because of the stage his injury was on, but IMHO Tyrone Prothro was the gold standard of horrific sports injuries. Then yesterday happened. I've only seen the video once, and I really do not care ever to see it again.

Mike Coleman
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RE: (OT) Ware's injury

Posted: 4/1/2013 10:47:46 AM

Agree with thoughts on Ward, but IMO Clint Malarchuk is the gold standard for all team sports injuries.

100%Cat
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RE: (OT) Ware's injury

Posted: 4/1/2013 10:57:37 AM

And let's not forget Willis McGahee. Not a fracture, but that knee went a long ways the wrong ways.

BillyTheCat
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RE: (OT) Ware's injury

Posted: 4/1/2013 11:14:26 AM

You guys are not even close, the ultimate sports injuries are paralysis and death, and every year hundreds of young men and women suffer these injuries without the fan fair or support that was afforded a Kumerie, Theisman, or Ware.

Mike Bundt WHIZ
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RE: (OT) Ware's injury

Posted: 4/1/2013 1:13:45 PM

BillyTheCat wrote:

I agree with you but I also agree above with the Clint Malarchuk post. For those that don't know, he was a goalie for the Buffalo Sabres and faced one of the scariest sports injuries of all-time.

On the play, a skate from another player cut open the carotid artery in his neck, almost leading him to bleed to death on the ice. Luckily after a massive pile of blood, they rushed him to an ambulance and saved him. A similar thing happened to Florida Panthers forward Richard Zednik in Buffalo as well.

Those are the worst sports injuries I've ever seen.

mf279801
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RE: (OT) Ware's injury

Posted: 4/1/2013 1:46:21 PM

buffalobobcatfan wrote:

BillyTheCat wrote:

I was at the game when Richard Zednik's neck was sliced open. I could very clearly see the blood spurt from his neck. Within a second or two, and before I was entirely aware of what I was seeing, someone on the Saber's bench staff (IIRC it was someone who had had a similar thing happen to him, i believe at a lower level of sport, I don't think it was Malarchuk himself) had run out onto the ice with a towel to apply pressure to the wound until emergency medical help arrived to stabilze him for the movement to the hospital. Very scary stuff.

BillyTheCat
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RE: (OT) Ware's injury

Posted: 4/1/2013 2:09:42 PM

My point is Zednik is alive and well today! Living a normal life with a scar, a few are not fortunate, never walking again, eating out of tubes, or worse yet no longer with us.

OhioCatFan
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RE: (OT) Ware's injury

Posted: 4/1/2013 2:27:33 PM

BillyTheCat wrote:

Great point!

BTC, do you know how many of these serious injuries at the high school level are caused by spear tackling in football? Several years ago the national HS athletic association had a campaign against spearing and it was a major point of emphasis for referees. I would assume that the incidence of spearing at the high school level is now lower than it was, but I haven't seen any recent reports on this.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

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JSF
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RE: (OT) Ware's injury

Posted: 4/1/2013 2:29:38 PM

If Ware has to pay one cent- one cent- of his medical bills, he should sue the NCAA into oblivion.

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

100%Cat
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RE: (OT) Ware's injury

Posted: 4/1/2013 2:32:41 PM

BillyTheCat wrote:

My point is Zednik is alive and well today! Living a normal life with a scar, a few are not fortunate, never walking again, eating out of tubes, or worse yet no longer with us.

What makes the Ware injury worse, in my humble opinion, is that it happened without contact from another player. The hockey injuries, horrible, but it was another player's skate doing the damage. LT destroyed Theisman's leg. Spinal injuries in football happen in collisions. Ware just jumped. That's it. He went in the air, came down, and his lower leg exploded.

bornacatfan
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RE: (OT) Ware's injury

Posted: 4/1/2013 3:14:42 PM

JSF wrote:

If Ware has to pay one cent- one cent- of his medical bills, he should sue the NCAA into oblivion.

Why? My best guess.... I would bet thta it may or may not come out that he has ahad a nagging injury that he has continued to play through for months or years.

That looked like a stress fracture that had been propgating for some time and finally gave way.

never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer.....

The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game

cc-cat
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RE: (OT) Ware's injury

Posted: 4/1/2013 6:02:18 PM

JSF wrote:

If Ware has to pay one cent- one cent- of his medical bills, he should sue the NCAA into oblivion.

and/or Louisville. If it was a nagging situation the school still cleared him for competition. My assumption is if an athlete is on scholarship, the school takes responsibility for medical expenses incurred as a result of that activity. Maybe Borna can clarify with respect to Tommy. If that is not the case, I would be willing to bet the vast majority of athletes from means below those on this board are greatly under insured.

bornacatfan
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RE: (OT) Ware's injury

Posted: 4/1/2013 8:53:38 PM

cc cat wrote:

JSF wrote:

If Ware has to pay one cent- one cent- of his medical bills, he should sue the NCAA into oblivion.

We had to provide proof of insurance to the school and athletic department each year. I often asked what happens to those kids who do not have insurance.,,,,, no one ever said anything or had an answer. As a small business owner my deductible is $6250 so every CAT scan MRI, radiograph, ER visit etc went over to the deductible and got paid out of pocket. Athletic department did not ever offer up any coverage or help. I am not sure if there is an NCAA rule that governs that end of the billing process...

When Tommy tore his bicep muscle in open gym Groce took him to a good friend in COls for consultation....I do not think I ever got a bill. For most everything else I got statements from O Blenness, Radiology, ER etc.......

When I took care of the Ball State kids I spent Tuedsay nights and Sat mornings in the training room. I never charged the university or the kids a dime for the consultations and took whatever insurance, if there was any, paid on the surgeries I performed.. I volunteered my time, threw in a lot of supplies and covered a lot of games on top of the time in the training room. I loved every minute and learned a ton in addition to being able to push the envelope with cutting edge ideas and consort with Ball Human Performance lab and the Biomechanics lab. Unfortunately, a large Orthopedic concern bought the rights to treat the athletes and asked the AD to clear all of us who had volunteered our time and skills out of the Training Room and Lecture halls where we were participating in training ATC s......and now it is commonly know that they do charge for everything seeing it as a revenue stream to recoup their sponsorship dolllars.....unfortunately they do not really care much about pushing the envelope or advancing the standard of care. Their injury pic, has been pretty entertaining to watch since that really engaged bunch of folks just interested in the athletes and advancing the how injuries and sports concerns were handled got tossed.

I have no knowledge of how OHIO or how most individual NCAA schools offer health care to athletes who do not have insurance or means to pay for care. I have a cadre of folks at other universities that I am still in contact with that are still joyously volunteering their services to a school and I have other friends who have to buy the exclusive rights to treat. SOme use it as a write off others use it as a revenue stream.....others just do it because it is fun and educational .

JSF
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RE: (OT) Ware's injury

Posted: 4/1/2013 9:29:18 PM

Great inside story. And that's illustrative of my anger here: Ware helps the NCAA make a billion dollars but is on the hook for the medical bills incurred while making money for them. It's unjust.

cc-cat
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RE: (OT) Ware's injury

Posted: 4/1/2013 9:37:28 PM

Thanks Borna - good stuff - and thank God for volunteers in the medical field such as yourself.

Agree Jeff. What an absolute injustice. The NCAA and universities have no problem putting these kids on the field and making money - and, let's be honest, often putting kids on the field while knowingly injured and then they have the opportunity to not be involved in covering medical costs - you know there are kids that do not have the proper coverage under their parent's plan. Disturbing Borna that you never received a straight answer from our University. Certainly provides fodder for what the answer probably is. Would love to hear from others if they have any insight. Also provides more insight as to why kids like Lattimore at South Carolina turn pro after such an injury. Yes, the rehab is better, but it is also fully paid for by the team that drafts him.

some google finds - not as good as first hand knowledge.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57577286/kevin-ware-injury-could-put-scholarship-at-risk/
http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2012/02/college_athlet...
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/16/sports/16athletes.html

Last Edited: 4/1/2013 9:50:31 PM by cc-cat

bornacatfan
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RE: (OT) Ware's injury

Posted: 4/1/2013 10:23:00 PM

JSF wrote:

Great inside story. And that's illustrative of my anger here: Ware helps the NCAA make a billion dollars but is on the hook for the medical bills incurred while making money for them. It's unjust.

That s what you got out of that?

You are assuming he has insurance and has a deductible ....He was taken care of at Methodist. My guess is that if he has insurance Methodist will bill and accept whatever is paid without billing the balance....in the case he does not have cpverage. since he was treated at an ER he will fall under the charitable care provisions that were put in place by the Hill Burton Act and carry forth today in newer forms. KNowing the guys who work at Methodist Sports Medicine.....most of them will take care of him and not worry whether they get paid for it or not. Shelbourne and McCarroll started MSM many years ago with the same ideas that many of us had regarding getting athletes back in action and not giving a shit about getting paid for it

Your anger is nice but I am almost 100 % positive he will not pay a dime whether it is because he is insured (his father works for the MTA in NYC) or that he has no insurance and like the many athletes below the poverty line the school will pay for it or it will be picked up by public or charitable set asides .....

You assert that Ware is making Billions of dollars for the NCAA......what about the same injury at Coppin State? Is that kid any less a cog in that ncaa Machine? Or are guys that are in the final 68 teams the only ones who should be included....ot final 16? Or 4? Where do you draw the line as to who a moneymaker for the NCAA includes?

Your disgust with the NCAA is almost comical and somewhat predictable in the knee jerk rage against the NCAA machine . Kids are getting a free education....many are the first in their family fo go to college. I agree with you in principle on some level but the non revenue producing athletes are putting in as much time and effort. Most of their parents bear all the cost of injuries. Quite a few of those schollies are not even renewed after an injury That is a crime worthy of your anger.

Last Edited: 4/1/2013 10:27:22 PM by bornacatfan

JSF
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RE: (OT) Ware's injury

Posted: 4/1/2013 10:47:22 PM

bornacatfan wrote:

You are assuming he has insurance and has a deductible

No, I'm not.

Quote:

Your anger is nice but I am almost 100 % positive he will not pay a dime whether it is because he is insured (his father works for the MTA in NYC) or that he has no insurance and like the many athletes below the poverty line the school will pay for it or it will be picked up by public or charitable set asides .....

His insurance shouldn't have to pay for it. The school or the NCAA should.

Quote:

You assert that Ware is making Billions of dollars for the NCAA......what about the same injury at Coppin State? Is that kid any less a cog in that ncaa Machine?

Yes, someone at Coppin State is less a cog in the NCAA machine. But any medical bills a Coppin State athlete suffers in the course of their service should be paid for.

Quote:

Your disgust with the NCAA is almost comical and somewhat predictable in the knee jerk rage against the NCAA machine.

Come on. Go full comical. Laugh.

Quote:

Kids are getting a free education

No, they're not. A college education is their payment for their play.

Quote:

....many are the first in their family fo go to college. I agree with you in principle on some level but the non revenue producing athletes are putting in as much time and effort. Most of their parents bear all the cost of injuries. Quite a few of those schollies are not even renewed after an injury That is a crime worthy of your anger.

You do realize I can be upset at many facets of this, right? Of course ANY athlete who gets hurt while playing should have their medical bills paid for (probably by the school, but my anger is at the NCAA because they won't allow it because they still try to pretend this is amateur athletics). And of course I'm mad at the raw deal people get. Injured then kicked out the door? Pathetic. If that happened to me, I'd sue. Not to win, but to draw attention.

If any of the kids on my volleyball team got seriously hurt, my employer could absolutely get sued even though the kids are playing for free and have signed a waiver. It shouldn't be any different for the "student-athletes."

bornacatfan
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RE: (OT) Ware's injury

Posted: 4/1/2013 10:50:43 PM

CC

interesting that your google finds included the following

Other athletes discover their financial problems long after their bodies have healed. An Ohio University football player, temporarily paralyzed during a workout, learned that he still owed $1,800 in unpaid medical bills when he went to buy a car six years after his injury.

That was pretty much my experience with the collections folks in Athens.

I realize this injury is going to bring much of this to the forefront and lay it right on the doorstep of the NCAA. Something will come of this and that is good.....especially for the minor sports athletes who are paying their own way in my experience.

OTOH I do not think for the most part a lot of these athletes are told to compete with an injury. I do believe and have seen trainers and docs who were diagnosing stress fractures as tendonitis and saw a similar break in a femur that had been diagnosed for 2v months as a muscle strain by a fam doc volunteering as a team doc. Loudest crack I have ever heard. Standing there with my jr high aged kids and this runner just literally exploded her thigh in front of me. Having seen it once I said immediately I could not watch the replay yesterday as that day stays with me and my boys.

I think there is a lot of misdiagnosis that goes on and I daily deal with athletes that wait way too long to report for fear of being taken out of action . WIth our performing arts groups, teams, athletes, nurses and trainers I push hard to create an air of early reporting in order to stave off injuries before they happen. Meetin with coaches early and telling them what they are loooking for and giving coaches and athletes free access to our emails and phones has kept us on the front end of many injuries for a long time.

It is a sticky gooey mess and always will be. Best thing to do is be proactive and teach as much as you can. to all concerned to prevent and early report.

bornacatfan
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RE: (OT) Ware's injury

Posted: 4/1/2013 11:12:48 PM

I am not saying the school should not include the medical care as part of an insurance policy they carry on their athletes. I thought I made the illustration that many folks are stuck with bills that should have been taken care of by the school while those athletes without coverage essentially receive free care that gets absorbed by the athletic department or public funds. IN the NCAA schollies are granted based on skill, not financial need. Their injury care should be similarly universal instead of penalizing those who may have the good fortune of having any coverage at all. .

As for the NCAA.....you are aware they are non profit eh? By their propoganda page they return most money to the institutions that make up their membership with a small amount making up payroll and buildings. .

About 96 percent is distributed directly to the Division I membership or to support championships or programs that benefit student-athletes. The remaining 4 percent goes for central services, such as building operations and salaries not related to particular programs.

I get the feeling you are inferring that the NCAA is making money hand over fist. I think the member institutions are the direct beneficiaries of the income and control it's distribution. Perhaps the care you are seeking needs to be provided by the member institutions themselves.

They NCAA could create a large bargaining arm to deal with the insurance issue for sure. I am not sure any underwriter in their right mind would want to do the actuarial work on that policy....wow.

Last Edited: 4/1/2013 11:13:52 PM by bornacatfan

JSF
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RE: (OT) Ware's injury

Posted: 4/1/2013 11:16:32 PM

I respect what you're saying. My understanding is that the NCAA doesn't let the schools cover this stuff, which gets my gast flabbered. I have little doubt Louisville would pony up if they could.

whocaresgobobcats
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RE: (OT) Ware's injury

Posted: 4/1/2013 11:39:50 PM

this is why you drink your milk kids

whocaresgobobcats
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RE: (OT) Ware's injury

Posted: 4/1/2013 11:51:02 PM

high res, up close pic right after break occurred.

VIEW AT OWN RISK

http://www.everyjoe.com/wp-content/gallery/kevin-ware-leg...

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