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Topic: Bobby Nichols dies at 82

Topic: Bobby Nichols dies at 82

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giacomo
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Member Since: 11/20/2007
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Bobby Nichols dies at 82

Posted: 4/2/2013 4:24:28 PM

http://www.toledoblade.com/DaveHackenberg/2013/04/01/Vict...

http://www.toledoblade.com/sports/2013/04/01/Rockets-coac...

A couple of great articles on the former Toledo coach who may have been the greatest the MAC ever had in basketball.

OhioCatFan
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Location: Athens, OH
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RE: Bobby Nichols dies at 82

Posted: 4/3/2013 1:44:17 AM

Whoa Nelly . . . greater than Jim Snyder? Bobcat Blasphemy!

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

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Casper71
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RE: Bobby Nichols dies at 82

Posted: 4/3/2013 1:15:37 PM

OCF, let's face it both Snyder and Nichols were GREAT MAC coaches. And look at the players and success those guys had. Seems like they just don't make coaches like that anymore. Went to the school and played, grew up and stayed for a lifetime. Definitely a different era then for the coaches and players.

Robert Fox
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RE: Bobby Nichols dies at 82

Posted: 4/3/2013 1:32:06 PM

Maybe the difference is not in the quality of the coaches, but the environmental differences in these generations. Those coaches didn't have to deal with modern TV/cable and internet craziness.

OhioCatFan
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RE: Bobby Nichols dies at 82

Posted: 4/3/2013 5:25:00 PM

I think the difference was the men and their values. Loyalty, honesty and integrity seemed to be much more valued in that bygone era. And, it wasn't just our coaches. This was true at a lot of places. Do a google search on the name George Ireland and you'll discover a man who was not only loyal (he had many offers for higher paid jobs, especially after his team won the national championship), but was a real innovator of the game and, more importantly, was a man of great integrity. I remember hearing Jim Snyder say that after his national championship win -- right after the game in the arena -- his major concern when Snyder congratulated him on the win was to ask if all the details were in place for the 1-1 with Ohio the next two years. Snyder said he was blown away that Ireland was concerned about that right after his national championship victory. Today, most coaches of a low-revenue team like Loyola would have been more concerned with interviewing for that more lucrative job rather than worrying about next season's schedule for their current school. Also, please note what you'll find out about Ireland and his commitment to racial integration.

JSF
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RE: Bobby Nichols dies at 82

Posted: 4/3/2013 5:45:03 PM

OhioCatFan wrote:

Loyalty, honesty and integrity seemed to be much more valued in that bygone era.

I'm sorry humanity has taken steps backward since you were younger.

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

OhioCatFan
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RE: Bobby Nichols dies at 82

Posted: 4/3/2013 6:57:26 PM

JSF wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

Loyalty, honesty and integrity seemed to be much more valued in that bygone era.

I'm sorry humanity has taken steps backward since you were younger.

So am I.

giacomo
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RE: Bobby Nichols dies at 82

Posted: 4/3/2013 10:30:18 PM

The money wasn't there in the pre ESPN days. Dale Bandy made 27k in his final year, so what the heck did Snyder make? Guys didn't jump around, but maybe they would if they had the opportunity. It's completely the other way when Alford agrees to a 10 yr extension then bolts to UCLA. Nichols was fired after a few down years, which is unbelievable to me. Toledo hasn't been to the dance since, so that is their curse.

OhioCatFan
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RE: Bobby Nichols dies at 82

Posted: 4/3/2013 10:52:46 PM

Well, money is a relative thing. I'm sure George Ireland could have upped his Loyola salary by five times or more if he'd gone to a Big 10, or SEC team, which he no doubt could have after winning the national championship. But, he stayed at Loyola. I don't know specifically about offers that Snyder may have received, but I assume there were some. I do know that Bill Hess was offered the Pittsburgh job and turned it down. This was widely reported in the media at the time, so it wasn't a secret. There were a few days when people thought he was going to Pitt, but then UPI broke the story that Hess had decided to stay in Athens. I remember how nervous I was until I heard the report on the radio. I don't know what Pitt was offering Hess, but you can bet it was a great deal more than he was making at OHIO. One of the few people on today's scene that I see that seems to be cut from the same clothe is Shaka Smart at VCU. He's turned down several offers over the last few years that would have given him a lot more bucks and a higher professional profile. I'm sure there are some others, but he's the one that comes most easily to mind. Hey, you know, the infamous TOS might be one of those guys. I suspect that he'll probably stay at Bryant regardless of the offers that might come his way. Though, as i said in another thread, the Rutgers job seems a good match.

Casper71
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RE: Bobby Nichols dies at 82

Posted: 4/4/2013 9:49:51 AM

OCF is correct. Back in the day the coaching trio of Hess, Snyder and Wren were all alums who were very successful and stayed at OHIO because of love and loyalty for the institution. Two qualities that a lot fewer coaches have nowadays!

Jeff McKinney
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RE: Bobby Nichols dies at 82

Posted: 4/4/2013 10:03:21 AM

I cut my MAC teeth watching Bobby Nichols' excellent Toledo teams. I always respected how good they were and the way they played. Coach Nichols was and is an iconic figure in the history of the MAC.

As his career wound down, his teams became basically all white. There was a lot of murmuring about how that could happen and why.

Comparing the coaches of that era to today's coaches is an apples and oranges thing. The influx of money and media has changed everything. I don't necessarily think that coaches today are of lesser integrity...they are in a different environment with a lot more money at stake. Remember, OCF, that ADs were a LOT less likely to fire coaches back in that day...so guys could afford to be more loyal to a single institution. So I think a lot of coaches today look out for themselves because they realize that ravenous ADs and fan bases are ready to fire them at the drop of a hat. That's the part of the equation you haven't addressed. Having said that, I agree that college athletics was better in many ways back then...and it was great to see more stability.

Robert Fox
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RE: Bobby Nichols dies at 82

Posted: 4/4/2013 11:07:31 AM

Jeff McKinney wrote:

Comparing the coaches of that era to today's coaches is an apples and oranges thing. The influx of money and media has changed everything. I don't necessarily think that coaches today are of lesser integrity...they are in a different environment with a lot more money at stake. Remember, OCF, that ADs were a LOT less likely to fire coaches back in that day...so guys could afford to be more loyal to a single institution. So I think a lot of coaches today look out for themselves because they realize that ravenous ADs and fan bases are ready to fire them at the drop of a hat. That's the part of the equation you haven't addressed. Having said that, I agree that college athletics was better in many ways back then...and it was great to see more stability.

Agree completely.

DelBobcat
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Member Since: 8/26/2010
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RE: Bobby Nichols dies at 82

Posted: 4/4/2013 11:16:28 AM

OhioCatFan wrote:

I think the difference was the men and their values. Loyalty, honesty and integrity seemed to be much more valued in that bygone era. And, it wasn't just our coaches. This was true at a lot of places. Do a google search on the name George Ireland and you'll discover a man who was not only loyal (he had many offers for higher paid jobs, especially after his team won the national championship), but was a real innovator of the game and, more importantly, was a man of great integrity. I remember hearing Jim Snyder say that after his national championship win -- right after the game in the arena -- his major concern when Snyder congratulated him on the win was to ask if all the details were in place for the 1-1 with Ohio the next two years. Snyder said he was blown away that Ireland was concerned about that right after his national championship victory. Today, most coaches of a low-revenue team like Loyola would have been more concerned with interviewing for that more lucrative job rather than worrying about next season's schedule for their current school. Also, please note what you'll find out about Ireland and his commitment to racial integration.

So were racism, sexism, and homophobia... among other things.

I always cringe when I see people talk about the "good old days." Selective memory always makes the past look better than the present.

BA OHIO 2010, BS OHIO 2010, MA Delaware 2012

bornacatfan
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Member Since: 8/3/2006
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RE: Bobby Nichols dies at 82

Posted: 4/4/2013 1:03:51 PM

DelBobcat wrote:

So were racism, sexism, and homophobia... among other things.

I always cringe when I see people talk about the "good old days." Selective memory always makes the past look better than the present.

I don't think that the progress made in those areas of humankind or the atrocities committed should be forgotten or diminshed in the lives the affected but certainly OCF makes a great point. Individuals seemed to have a bit more moral, ethical and personal compass. How did we go from a society where my dad thumbed a ride 5 miles to little league practice every day to one where if your kid is more than 25 feet from you at any time he or she is a target for predators and you are being neglectful. I spent entire days up at the grade school playing basketball....8 -9 hours at a time with no parental supervision. If my kid did that I would be jailed

So many people have that moral terpitude these days that was generally the exception rather than the norm.

It is a simple concept that endures time that is getting lost and leads to what OCF is talking about with coaches following the money after telling kids to come to a school. I never once have questions John Rhodes and kevin Kuwick's ongoing commitment and involvement in our lives Wayyyyy into the future. Knowing Steve I do question his commitment to the kids he is leaving behind.

never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

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Robert Fox
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RE: Bobby Nichols dies at 82

Posted: 4/4/2013 1:40:41 PM

DelBobcat wrote:

OhioCatFan wrote:

So were racism, sexism, and homophobia... among other things.

I always cringe when I see people talk about the "good old days." Selective memory always makes the past look better than the present.

So you're going to impugn an entire generation of people based on comparing yesterday's standards with today's standards? By that measure, no historical figure has any nobility. They were all flawed because they didn't meet today's measure of acceptability.

Bobcat61
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Member Since: 5/24/2005
Post Count: 238

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RE: Bobby Nichols dies at 82

Posted: 4/4/2013 10:42:40 PM

The MAC and college basketball will miss the former Rocket coach.

One of the earlier statements had the names of HESS SNYDER WREN in the same sentence. Those names should be and are on the walls of the Convo and the entire university. I knew all three, played a little for Jim Snyder and that might have been the best time of my life.

John Rhodes and Kevin Kuwick were two other names mentioned. Both are friends and mine and will be remembered for years as BOBCATS.

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