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Topic: Butler to the A10

Topic: Butler to the A10

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BobcatSports
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Butler to the A10

Posted: 5/2/2012 11:31:24 AM

SI.com is reporting Butler has informed the Horizon League that they are leaving. All speculation is geared to it being the A10.

Last Edited: 5/2/2012 11:31:53 AM by BobcatSports

Jeff McKinney
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RE: Butler to the A10

Posted: 5/2/2012 11:40:42 AM

Great move for Butler. The A 10 is a terrific fit for them.

Would love to see Ohio in the A 10.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: Butler to the A10

Posted: 5/2/2012 12:04:05 PM

Jeff McKinney wrote:

Great move for Butler. The A 10 is a terrific fit for them.

Would love to see Ohio in the A 10.

Drop football down a level, and that's a realistic possibility.

Jeff McKinney
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RE: Butler to the A10

Posted: 5/2/2012 12:11:12 PM

Shame: We've debated that ad nauseum on this board and it usually gets people mad at each other. I think the consensus on this board is against that but a minority of people favor it.

Ted Thompson
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RE: Butler to the A10

Posted: 5/2/2012 12:45:56 PM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

Jeff McKinney wrote:

Great move for Butler. The A 10 is a terrific fit for them.

Would love to see Ohio in the A 10.

Drop football down a level, and that's a realistic possibility.

It has nothing to do with football (see Temple and UMass). If Ohio wants the A-10 to be a realistic opportunity it needs to:

1) Become a private Catholic university
2) Be in a decent-sized media market

It's just that easy.

Follow Ohio Football recruiting on the BobcatAttack.com football recruiting database.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: Butler to the A10

Posted: 5/2/2012 1:10:54 PM

Ted Thompson wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

Jeff McKinney wrote:

Great move for Butler. The A 10 is a terrific fit for them.

Would love to see Ohio in the A 10.

Drop football down a level, and that's a realistic possibility.

The reason it relates to football is budgetary. Without wasting money annually to pay for a BCS level football team, we'd be able to keep the basketball program competitive at a higher level a la Butler/Gonzaga, etc. The A-10 has plenty of schools that aren't in decent sized media markets, including UMASS (Amherst is tiny and it's yet to be seen whether UMASS holds any sway in the Boston market), URI, St. Bonaventure, and though Fordham is in a giant market, they have zero presence in New York market.

I'm in the minority that believes that whatever they call the A-10 in football is a much more logical fit for Ohio than the purgatory that is the MAC. We're not eligible for the national championship, we end up losing money if we're successful enough to qualify for a bowl game, and when we have success in basketball we can't afford to keep our coach because we're diverting so much money to a football program that loses us money. Being a MAC Football program is like being Sisyphus, the difference being that people have heard of Sisyphus.

OU_Country
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RE: Butler to the A10

Posted: 5/2/2012 1:42:21 PM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

Jeff McKinney wrote:

Great move for Butler. The A 10 is a terrific fit for them.

Would love to see Ohio in the A 10.

Drop football down a level, and that's a realistic possibility.

Sometime soon, I wonder if it's not a decision that is essentially made for the MAC by these "BCS Schools". I've had a long held belief that basketball does more for OUr university than football. It's not a shot at Frank or anyone on the team. They're doing great work. It's simply that a MAC school will always have greater opportunities for success nationally in basketball. Always meaning as things stand right now.

I also agree with the statement about budget. Imagine what we could do with an extra million or so thrown at men's hoops, and some additional money thrown at women's hoops?

For now it's a moot point for OU and the MAC.

One thing this change should do is to elevate the other conferences, like the MAC, that compete with the Horizon League for recognition, players, and NCAA & NIT tournament berths.

Jeff McKinney
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RE: Butler to the A10

Posted: 5/2/2012 1:43:09 PM

Hah Ted, maybe we can merge with Pontifical Josphenum in Columbus...

I know Charlotte is leaving the A10, but do you really have to fit the mid sized Catholic university profile to thrive in the A10? They are saying that George Mason and VCU are getting ready to join the A10.

I don't see it happening but I'd be thrilled to see us in the A10 for basketball.

Ted Thompson
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RE: Butler to the A10

Posted: 5/2/2012 1:58:36 PM

Jeff McKinney wrote:

UMass and Temple are/were members of MAC for football. So that doesn't seem to be the determining factor.

Follow Ohio Football recruiting on the BobcatAttack.com football recruiting database.

Shawn Sellers
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RE: Butler to the A10

Posted: 5/2/2012 4:27:52 PM

OU_Country wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

Jeff McKinney wrote:

Great move for Butler. The A 10 is a terrific fit for them.

Would love to see Ohio in the A 10.

Drop football down a level, and that's a realistic possibility.

I also agree with the statement about budget. Imagine what we could do with an extra million or so thrown at men's hoops, and some additional money thrown at women's hoops?

I've always wondered, would we really save more money by dropping a level in football? If you look at Dayton and Butler's football schedules, They fly all over the country to play games, There really aren't that many nearby schools to play. They don't play any big money games. I know you save money in scholarships, but do they do as well at the gate?

Ted Thompson
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RE: Butler to the A10

Posted: 5/2/2012 5:25:39 PM

Shawn Sellers wrote:

OU_Country wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

Jeff McKinney wrote:

Great move for Butler. The A 10 is a terrific fit for them.

Would love to see Ohio in the A 10.

Drop football down a level, and that's a realistic possibility.

I also agree with the statement about budget. Imagine what we could do with an extra million or so thrown at men's hoops, and some additional money thrown at women's hoops?

You may save some money by dropping to FCS. You wouldn't have to fund 40 scholarships (20 scholarship reduction in football which would require 20 women's scholarships to be cut to remain Title IX compliant) and subsequent coaching expenses. But you lose some bargaining power in your money games, lose split of BCS revenue, TV revenue, ticket sales, contributions and national TV exposure. IMO, you give up way more than you get. And I wouldn't assume that any savings get allocated to other sports.

But Dayton football is not dropping down a level, it's basically dropping football. They are non-scholarship but an NCAA rule requires them to be FCS. Which means they never get an invite to the playoffs. You would definitely save money in this scenario. But I'm sure how much of an Athletic Dept. you would have left or one of the school's greatest assets, the Marching 110.

Follow Ohio Football recruiting on the BobcatAttack.com football recruiting database.

giacomo
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RE: Butler to the A10

Posted: 5/3/2012 9:43:07 AM

It was bound to happen for Butler and even VCU and George Mason. They have been paying their coaches and increasing their budgets to be on par with the A-10 and above, yet in Butler's case they are in a one bid league. This year they played in the no-name tourney and lost money.

I don't see us dropping football or even dropping to a lower level. I do see a school such as Eastern Michigan getting the boot or voluntarily leaving at some point.

MonroeClassmate
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RE: Butler to the A10

Posted: 5/3/2012 1:44:17 PM

OU_Country wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

Jeff McKinney wrote:

Great move for Butler. The A 10 is a terrific fit for them.

Would love to see Ohio in the A 10.

Drop football down a level, and that's a realistic possibility.

I've had a long held belief that basketball does more for OUr university than football.

Yes, the alums really pack the Convo on basketball homecoming and the tailgating at Tailgreat just cannot be topped in Athens on a January/February Saturday. The students attendance average at the Convo is perhaps triple the attendance at football home games where the small crowd always leaves after halftime anyway. The 70 member basketball "in the stands" pep band of the 110 is superior to the 220 member 110 shuffling to 7.4 MILLION hits on YouTube variety. The mid week televised football games during the past two seasons are inferior to the catching up with a Bobcat game on Sports Time Ohio. Our visiting crowd at the basketball Akron and Kent games this year that I attended really brought out our fans where I saw as many Ohio shirts as the guy on the Chicago train recently saw in his car before he decided to switch to another. As a student there is always a much better chance of having a class and getting to know one of 15 basketball players vs getting to know one of 100 who hides behind a helmet and is vitually unknown.

In Cleveland, when Barley House hosted the March 2012 St. Pats in the Flats with about 1200 alums were partying on the afternoon/evening of the Bobcats taking the MAC Tourney away from the Zips, perhaps 30 of the 1200 attendees made their way over to the Gund to watch--yes that basketball really brings out the best in our alums that they wouldn't go down the street to watch their alma mater rule.

Bobcat110alum
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RE: Butler to the A10

Posted: 5/3/2012 1:58:18 PM

MonroeClassmate wrote:

OU_Country wrote:

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

Jeff McKinney wrote:

Great move for Butler. The A 10 is a terrific fit for them.

Would love to see Ohio in the A 10.

Drop football down a level, and that's a realistic possibility.

I've had a long held belief that basketball does more for OUr university than football.

I see the point you're trying to make, but I'm not biting. Both programs are valuable to the university in terms of national recognition. One may make more money than the other (I don't know for certain so don't quote me), but in terms of prestige, the run our basketball team made this year caught more attention nationally than the bowl game did. Simple. MAC football will be a dead end unless the commissioners office can pull something out of the hat and bring the conference to relevance. Basketball provides an easier path to national success for Ohio than football.

When people start showing up in droves and we sell out our MAC championship ticket allotments in Detroit, then I may consider your argument. Shame was talking about national recognition, and you are referencing fan interest. They are not one and the same.

B.S. Journalism, 2012.

Ohio69
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RE: Butler to the A10

Posted: 5/3/2012 2:15:15 PM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

Ah, but you assume that the funds allegedly saved by dropping football a division would remain in the athletics budget. That is a dangerous assumption.

More likely we'd end up with lesser football and no more money for athletics to do anything else.

Last Edited: 5/3/2012 2:15:34 PM by Ohio69

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

Andrew Ruck
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RE: Butler to the A10

Posted: 5/4/2012 7:43:54 AM

Tyler Charles wrote:

Shame was talking about national recognition, and you are referencing fan interest. They are not one and the same.

Also, it is important to note Football has 6 games to attend, most of which are nicely scheduled in the middle of the weekend. Basketball has about 3 times as many games, scheduled all over the board. The average football game also plays a big role into the grand scheme of things, while basketball has many games that you want to win but in the end are not overly important. Football, by nature, is a sport that is intensely followed...while basketball can be more casual in nature. Personally, although I am a bigger hoops fan, I probably make more of a point to goto/follow the football games overall.

Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: Butler to the A10

Posted: 5/4/2012 1:06:35 PM

Andrew Ruck wrote:

Tyler Charles wrote:

Shame was talking about national recognition, and you are referencing fan interest. They are not one and the same.

We'll still have a football team, and a homecoming, and tailgating and all of that good stuff. In fact, we'll also be able to ensure that all of our home games take place on Saturday afternoon, the way God intended, because we wouldn't have to schedule our Tuesday night MAC games and such.

Let's assume, for a second, that OU did drop a division. The CAA is in the midst of a bit of an overhaul after the loss of Umass, and with the pending loss of URI. Rumor is that Maine and New Hampshire will likely leave as well. A conference of Delaware, James Madison, Old Dominion, Richmond, Villanova, Towson, and William & Mary makes a lot of sense for OU both athletically and academically. Being mentioned as a peer of schools like U of R and William & Mary would be a nothing but a good thing, and frankly, from an attendance standpoint, our student body isn't going to be more fired up for Eastern Michigan than they are for Delaware. It's a complete wash.

And a nationally televised home NCAA tournament game would draw just as well as a home game against Minnesota, or whichever mid level BCS team we can convince to come to Athens once every 8 years.

mf279801
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RE: Butler to the A10

Posted: 5/4/2012 1:16:35 PM

The amount of anger and alumni resentment at dropping a division in football (from largely irrelevant but still discussed nationally to COMPLETELY irrelevant) would dwarf by several orders of magnitude that generated by the dropping of Men's Track.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: Butler to the A10

Posted: 5/4/2012 3:22:27 PM

mf279801 wrote:

Who is discussing OU football nationally?

And the alumni resentment would be coming from a vocal minority.

OUs LONG Driver
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RE: Butler to the A10

Posted: 5/4/2012 4:26:48 PM

Dropping down a division is not going to happen. It's simply not beneficial to the university. Schools are clamoring to get into FBS. 4 new schools are transitioning already and 2 more have announced plans to do so soon. I looked around briefly and couldn't even find the last team to drop down from the top division regardless of what it was called at the time to a lower division. I'm sure it's been discussed before but no major college in at least the last 30 years has decided it was a good idea.

Intelligent people are reaching the same conclusion across the country that it is better to be a part of FBS football rather than not be.

There are even some colleges who dropped football decades ago that are now starting up the program again (Stetson, Mercer, etc) at a lower level.

Robert Fox
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RE: Butler to the A10

Posted: 5/4/2012 4:28:12 PM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

mf279801 wrote:

And the alumni resentment would be coming from a vocal minority.

I wouldn't be too sure about that.

giacomo
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RE: Butler to the A10

Posted: 5/4/2012 4:34:44 PM

You can wake up from your dream now. We are not dropping football.

mf279801
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RE: Butler to the A10

Posted: 5/4/2012 5:02:53 PM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

mf279801 wrote:

Who is discussing OU football nationally?

And the alumni resentment would be coming from a vocal minority.

It'd be BAAAAAAD.

Who's discussing us? How many times did the week night games make the ESPN-Top10 reel? Or the Marshall game, when TT was discussed as one of the week's best performers?

Dropping football to a lower level would be a disaster. As in AD fired, Bobcatattack message board activity dropping off markedly for most of the year, women's sports losing ~30 scholarships, decreased alumni-athletic giving, less gate $ at pedan, the list goes on. Anyone who thinks that dropping to I-AA would be a good thing for the university as a whole is deluding themselves. If basketball is your primary concern (I very much like and follow closely the basketball team, but I'm primarily a football fan) I'd say its no better than 50/50 that such a move would be benefical for mens basketball.

DublinCat
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RE: Butler to the A10

Posted: 5/4/2012 8:48:52 PM

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:

mf279801 wrote:

Who is discussing OU football nationally?

And the alumni resentment would be coming from a vocal minority.

Every major sports television network featured the Bowl highlights throughout the bowl season. ESPN Top 10...Numerous National Sports Center highlights throughout the season....Numerous mentions of many National College Football Shows...Front cover of USA Today and many other National Newspapers...just to name a few.

OU87

OUVan
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RE: Butler to the A10

Posted: 5/10/2012 12:43:46 PM

BobcatSports wrote:

SI.com is reporting Butler has informed the Horizon League that they are leaving. All speculation is geared to it being the A10.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7911693/oakland-wants-take-butler-place-horizon-league

Oakland looking to replace Butler in the Horizon but worred about being blocked by Detroit.

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