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Topic: Loyalty is Dead

Topic: Loyalty is Dead

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JSF
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Member Since: 1/29/2005
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Loyalty is Dead

Posted: 4/26/2012 1:23:18 PM

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/785...

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

Ohio69
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RE: Loyalty is Dead

Posted: 4/26/2012 1:45:00 PM

Interesting that the article JSF posted has a link to this one:

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7853594/coaches-mid-major-programs-spurning-lucrative-opportunities-stay-put-men-college-basketball

From what I can tell, the right salary can buy loyalty. Many of the mid-major coaches listed are making $1 million+

Greg Marshall of Wichita State's interesting quote: "I've got a BCS job without a BCS football team."

Back to the JSF posted article, boy does Tubby Smith sound tone deaf.

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

JSF
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RE: Loyalty is Dead

Posted: 4/26/2012 1:57:54 PM

Ohio69 wrote:

From what I can tell, the right salary can buy loyalty.

Would I ever leave this company? Look, I'm all about loyalty. In fact, I feel like part of what I'm being paid for here is my loyalty. But if there were somewhere else that valued loyalty more highly, I'm going wherever they value loyalty the most.

cc-cat
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RE: Loyalty is Dead

Posted: 4/26/2012 2:26:37 PM

When asked to compare the plight of college kids seeking something more -- playing time, a more suitable system, a better situation, a school closer to home -- coaches countered with a general stance that student-athletes aren't in school to make a living. You can't compare a coach's decision to leave a program for a dream job with a college basketball player's decision to transfer, they said. "

"They're kids. They're there to get an education. We're here to make a living," said Minnesota's Tubby Smith, who's watched six players transfer since 2010. "We clothe them, we feed them, we house them, we educate them." - Come on Tubby, you know kids are there to play ball and get a shot at the pros

Last Edited: 4/26/2012 2:28:07 PM by cc-cat

OUVan
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RE: Loyalty is Dead

Posted: 4/26/2012 3:48:43 PM

Coaches can pull kids scholarships any time they want. I have no problem with a kid transferring if he's not happy with the choice he made. A coach has years and years to find the right situation for himself. These kids have an extremely small window to find the right situation and then it is gone. They shouldn't make it easy for kids to transfer but it shouldn't be overly difficult either.

Pataskala
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RE: Loyalty is Dead

Posted: 4/26/2012 9:00:54 PM

To quote Trapper John, "If I don't like a movie I get up and leave. If I don't like the war, I'm gone." These kids are generally 18 or 19 years old and they often get caught up in the glitz of a program, but when they get there they find they just don't fit in. There's nothing wrong with kids getting out of a bad situation (for them). Coaches move on; ADs move on; school presidents move on. Why not the kids.

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.

RSBobcat
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RE: Loyalty is Dead

Posted: 4/26/2012 11:30:52 PM

Do they teach "loyalty" in the business school? Or any other for that matter? Have they ever? Like students (even on scholarships) never transfer if not athletes? Just when was Loyalty "alive"? In pro sports was it before free agency? In college sports was it before - well pro sports free agency - both of which changed due to the dramatic rise in $ for owners (read Universities per revenue) from TV? Loyalty to "who"? Owners (read Universities per revenue), or your family? Everybody needs to just get over it, deal with reality. What players or coaches were ever really "Loyal" before? Like they had a choice? They had no, or certainly far fewer "options" - so how can you even compare?

I have a lot of fun and am just fine with rooting for This Years Team, just like every other team fan has to. Just like rooting for This Years My Kids 8th grade (enter sport here) Team. Or This Years My Kids little league baseball team. I won't lose sleep because the studly 3rd base slugger's family moves next year and can't play on next years team - I'll still root for next years team..................unless of course if "I" decide to move, then I would have to root for my kids new team.........jeesh........

Last Edited: 4/26/2012 11:37:55 PM by RSBobcat

RS Bobcat

roar-room
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RE: Loyalty is Dead

Posted: 4/26/2012 11:44:07 PM

JSF wrote:

Ohio69 wrote:

From what I can tell, the right salary can buy loyalty.

Looked for a clip on youtube, but failed.

JSF
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RE: Loyalty is Dead

Posted: 4/27/2012 3:45:11 AM

roar-room wrote:

JSF wrote:

Ohio69 wrote:

From what I can tell, the right salary can buy loyalty.

Looked for a clip on youtube, but failed.

Me too. All the great quotes from that show and that one's not to be found...

OhioCatFan
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RE: Loyalty is Dead

Posted: 4/27/2012 5:58:23 PM

Chicago Cubs <> Ernie Banks

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

cc-cat
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RE: Loyalty is Dead

Posted: 4/27/2012 10:02:39 PM

Yes it is:

http://espn.go.com/dallas/ncb/story/_/id/7864558/larry-br...

RSBobcat
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RE: Loyalty is Dead

Posted: 4/27/2012 11:00:48 PM

OhioCatFan wrote:

Chicago Cubs <> Ernie Banks

Loyalty - By Restrictive Ownership - largley, before Free Agency.

RS Bobcat

Kevin Finnegan
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RE: Loyalty is Dead

Posted: 4/28/2012 9:23:32 AM

Yes, the Ernie Banks example does not hold weight, as he never had to prove his loyalty. He had forced loyalty through the reserve clause. More favorable examples would be Derek Jeter (well-paid for his loyalty) and Cal Ripken. But really, is length of time with one team necessarily loyalty? Is Kobe Bryant loyal?

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Loyalty is Dead

Posted: 4/28/2012 1:04:59 PM

So, you want to construct an argument that Kobe being with one team for about 15 years is NOT loyalty?

Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!

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Kevin Finnegan
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RE: Loyalty is Dead

Posted: 4/28/2012 1:15:22 PM

I believe he has stayed with the Lakers because they're in LA. I don't think if he had been kept by Charlotte (the original team to draft him, I believe) that he would've stayed with Charlotte for an entire career. Durant, he's showing loyalty. He's fine in a smaller market. I don't think that if Dwight Howard somehow resigns with Orlando that he will be considered loyal. For Kobe, he's had recordings of him bashing his own teammates (Bynum) and his general manager. I don't believe that loyalty is judged only by staying with a team for a while. Just because somebody is married to someone else for 20 years doesn't necessary mean there is loyalty. If you're bashing your spouse or abusive, I don't think that's loyalty even if you stay.

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Loyalty is Dead

Posted: 4/28/2012 3:34:20 PM

Okay.

But I'd rather be on the side that gets to argue that 15 years = loyalty than the side that it don't.

I could argue that criticism of teammates is justified, being relevant to loyalty in that it implies desire for the business to deal with those who are not helping the business in the best way.

OhioCatFan
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RE: Loyalty is Dead

Posted: 4/28/2012 4:37:38 PM

A few quotes from Mr. Cub give some insight into his thinking, which was as far away from the mercenaries of today as you could get:

"Loyalty and friendship, which is to me the same, created all the wealth that I've ever thought I'd have.'

"I learned from Mr. Wrigley, early in my career, that loyalty wins and it creates friendships. I saw it work for him in his business.”

“The riches of the game are in the thrills, not the money.”

“You must try to generate happiness within yourself. If you aren't happy in one place, chances are you won't be happy anyplace.”

“Awards mean a lot, but they don't say it all. The people in baseball mean more to me than statistics."

“It's a beautiful day for a ballgame... Let's play two”

Last Edited: 4/28/2012 4:38:42 PM by OhioCatFan

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Loyalty is Dead

Posted: 4/28/2012 5:15:40 PM

OhioCatFan wrote:

“It's a beautiful day for a ballgame... Let's play two”

The highlighted text, along with a lack of maturity, explains a lot of the transfers of college basketball players to me.

Maturity--well, they're young, current generation seems pretty coddled, and, having shown talent early, these youngsters were even more coddled.

Why not the same volume of transfers in other sports? or maybe there are high xfers in other sports...

Yes; sometimes there is a mismatch and transfer is wise. I think that too often 'the grass is greener.' I'd like to hear some stats/quotes about how the transferers felt a year or two later.

Donuts
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RE: Loyalty is Dead

Posted: 4/28/2012 5:25:07 PM

So to prove a point that loyalty is not dead, we are going to try and point to a guy who hasn't played a game in 41 years? What on earth does Ernie Banks have to do with loyalty being dead now?

Monroe Slavin
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RE: Loyalty is Dead

Posted: 4/28/2012 5:53:57 PM

?? How does the fact that he played half a century ago make him not an example of loyalty. Yes, the debaite is about loyalty today. But it's fair to define it by the standard that one chooses.

Heck, if you assume loyalty is dead today, then there is no loyalty standard to use to discuss it in re today...because there is no loyalty today because it's dead.

I know. I'm kinda nit-picking today. I'm a pretty businesslike kinda guy; I like logical arguments...not saying that emotion based argument is off base...just that if you're going to go with logic, ya gotta be logical.

cc-cat
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RE: Loyalty is Dead

Posted: 4/28/2012 7:13:55 PM

Loyalty is dead. Period. Any questions see Larry Brown/SMU. See Peyton Manning/Colts. See A-Rod. Will you find the needle in a haystack? Sure. But if you are going to base you perspective or life on that you will be greatly disappointed.

Jeff McKinney
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RE: Loyalty is Dead

Posted: 4/28/2012 7:27:28 PM

Loyalty has to be mutual, right? For college coaches, they know that those who are glad handing them after a good season just might be the first people to park a U-Haul in front of their house after a disappointing season. So, coaches feel compelled to jump at the opportunities for better jobs that come along.

As for player transfers, it has been epidemic for several years now and is getting more predominant. I think it relates to individualism and people being accustomed to having so many options in every area of life.

Transfer-itis makes it really hard to build continuity in a program. Even Groce had trouble with that his first couple of years at Ohio.

Donuts
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RE: Loyalty is Dead

Posted: 4/28/2012 7:39:56 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

I know. I'm kinda nit-picking today. I'm a pretty businesslike kinda guy; I like logical arguments...not saying that emotion based argument is off base...just that if you're going to go with logic, ya gotta be logical.

ROTFLMFAO

Last Edited: 4/28/2012 7:40:50 PM by Donuts

JSF
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RE: Loyalty is Dead

Posted: 4/28/2012 7:58:32 PM

Monroe Slavin wrote:

So, you want to construct an argument that Kobe being with one team for about 15 years is NOT loyalty?

I bet the Hornets could.

cc-cat
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RE: Loyalty is Dead

Posted: 4/28/2012 8:38:14 PM

JSF wrote:

Monroe Slavin wrote:

So, you want to construct an argument that Kobe being with one team for about 15 years is NOT loyalty?

I bet the Hornets could.

Thank You

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