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Author Message ab54 General User Member Since: 12/16/2011 Post Count: 93 Status: Offline     Toledo banned from next years postseason...    Posted: 4/18/2012 3:03:16 PM   @RyanAutullo: BREAKING: Toledo's men's basketball banned from the postseason next year for poor APR scores Back to Top ab54 General User Member Since: 12/16/2011 Post Count: 93 Status: Offline     RE: Toledo banned from next years postseason...    Posted: 4/18/2012 3:03:48 PM  Be interesting to see if Pearson or Brown transfer.... Back to Top ab54 General User Member Since: 12/16/2011 Post Count: 93 Status: Offline     RE: Toledo banned from next years postseason...    Posted: 4/18/2012 3:05:53 PM  I guess there's a meeting in July and if they use this years APR they'll be fine. http://www.toledoblade.com/UT/2012/04/18/Poor-academic-scores-lead-to-post-season-ban-next-year-for-UT-men-s-basketball-team.html Back to Top Pete Chouteau General User Member Since: 11/17/2004 Location: You Can't See Me Post Count: 1,660 Status: Offline     RE: Toledo banned from next years postseason...    Posted: 4/18/2012 4:19:34 PM  Don't get me wrong, I am most certainly in favor of sanction against schools that can't cut butter academically, but this system is baloney. I know nothing about what the number quantifies, but bigger is better. Toledo says they posted a 939 in 2010-11. They expect to post a 980 in 2011-12. The threshold for sanction is at 930. There is no way you will convince me it is a legitimate sanction to penalize in 2013 for substandard achievement in the face of two years meeting the standard. Last Edited: 4/18/2012 4:20:08 PM by Pete Chouteau Back to Top BuddyLee General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Post Count: 682 Status: Offline     RE: Toledo banned from next years postseason...    Posted: 4/18/2012 9:41:40 PM  Wonder how they will structure the mac tournament since Toledo can't participate. I guess they will have to give out one less bye. Back to Top bigtillyoopsupsideurhead General User Member Since: 12/1/2006 Location: Cincinnati Post Count: 1,926 Status: Offline     RE: Toledo banned from next years postseason...    Posted: 4/18/2012 11:36:41 PM  BuddyLee wrote: Wonder how they will structure the mac tournament since Toledo can't participate. I guess they will have to give out one less bye. One more bye.  Back to Top Eagle66 General User Member Since: 3/13/2005 Post Count: 1,329 Status: Offline     RE: Toledo banned from next years postseason...    Posted: 4/19/2012 7:50:38 AM  Looks like it's official... NCAA denies Toledo grades appeal Back to Top Andrew Ruck General User Member Since: 12/22/2004 Location: Columbus, OH Post Count: 5,223 Status: Offline     RE: Toledo banned from next years postseason...    Posted: 4/19/2012 8:40:58 AM  Does the postseason ban include the conference tourney?  I was thinking it was just a NCAA/NIT/CBI/CIT ban. Andrew Ruck B.B.A. 2003 Back to Top GoCatsGo General User Member Since: 7/3/2005 Location: Cleveland, OH Post Count: 217 Status: Offline     RE: Toledo banned from next years postseason...    Posted: 4/19/2012 10:05:32 AM  Jeremy Guy tweeted that they will not participate in next years conference tournament. Back to Top bigtillyoopsupsideurhead General User Member Since: 12/1/2006 Location: Cincinnati Post Count: 1,926 Status: Offline     RE: Toledo banned from next years postseason...    Posted: 4/19/2012 10:29:08 AM  Andrew Ruck wrote: Does the postseason ban include the conference tourney?  I was thinking it was just a NCAA/NIT/CBI/CIT ban. Sounds like the MAC is doing this as a precaution in case Toledo wins the MAC tournament. Then we would be left without a tournament team. Except for our at-large of course.  Back to Top mf279801 General User Member Since: 8/6/2010 Location: Newark, DE Post Count: 2,472 Status: Offline     RE: Toledo banned from next years postseason...    Posted: 4/19/2012 10:47:11 AM  bigtillyoopsupsideurhead wrote: Andrew Ruck wrote: Does the postseason ban include the conference tourney?  I was thinking it was just a NCAA/NIT/CBI/CIT ban. Sounds like the MAC is doing this as a precaution in case Toledo wins the MAC tournament. Then we would be left without a tournament team. Except for our at-large of course.  Pretty common. It seems like everytime a discussion comes up about a team being post-season ineligible (football or basketball) conference rules also stipulate that they cannot participate in their tournament/championship game. Back to Top anorris General User Member Since: 7/6/2010 Location: Bristol, CT Post Count: 2,262 Status: Offline     RE: Toledo banned from next years postseason...    Posted: 4/19/2012 2:01:52 PM  mf279801 wrote: bigtillyoopsupsideurhead wrote: Andrew Ruck wrote: Does the postseason ban include the conference tourney?  I was thinking it was just a NCAA/NIT/CBI/CIT ban. Sounds like the MAC is doing this as a precaution in case Toledo wins the MAC tournament. Then we would be left without a tournament team. Except for our at-large of course.  Pretty common. It seems like everytime a discussion comes up about a team being post-season ineligible (football or basketball) conference rules also stipulate that they cannot participate in their tournament/championship game. See: Connecticut. Back to Top JSF General User Member Since: 1/29/2005 Location: Houston, TX Post Count: 6,554 Status: Offline     RE: Toledo banned from next years postseason...    Posted: 4/19/2012 8:32:34 PM  UConn got hit with it too. http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/783... "Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season. My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8 Back to Top Pataskala General User Member Since: 7/8/2010 Location: At least six feet away from anybody else Post Count: 9,365 Status: Offline     RE: Toledo banned from next years postseason...    Posted: 4/20/2012 12:08:23 PM  bigtillyoopsupsideurhead wrote: BuddyLee wrote: Wonder how they will structure the mac tournament since Toledo can't participate. I guess they will have to give out one less bye. One more bye.  Probably right, if they like the format from this year's tourney.  The #5 team should get a bye in the first round, so you have 11-6, 10-7, 9-8.  The second round would have #5 play the 9-8 winner and the other two winners meeting.  Then just proceed like this year.  We will get by. We will get by. We will get by. We will survive. Back to Top bobcat2nc General User Member Since: 12/28/2004 Post Count: 584 Status: Offline     RE: Toledo banned from next years postseason...    Posted: 4/20/2012 12:42:20 PM  Bench Bracket. Low graduation rates will drop schools out of March Madness Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2109146,00.html#ixzz1sbEb2EpZ In a March edition of Time Magazine the above article ran.  In the actual magazine they showed a bracket with about a dozen teams that would not have been in this year's tourney if the adopted standard was fully phased in.  Ohio was one of those teams. Back to Top BuddyLee General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Post Count: 682 Status: Offline     RE: Toledo banned from next years postseason...    Posted: 4/20/2012 6:28:57 PM  I don't know how they calculate these numbers, but how does Kentucky keep players for only 1-2 years without graduating and it's no problem, but Ohio was in danger of missing the tourney?  Seems like there must be a lot of loopholes in the system. Last Edited: 4/20/2012 6:31:05 PM by BuddyLee Back to Top Jeff McKinney Moderator Member Since: 11/12/2004 Post Count: 6,155 Status: Offline     RE: Toledo banned from next years postseason...    Posted: 4/20/2012 6:43:15 PM  It depends on whether a player is in good academic standing when they leave a school.  If not, the school gets burned.  Just read where SIU refused to release two guys wanting to transfer until they make sure that they are in good academic standing.  Back to Top Tim Burke General User Member Since: 11/23/2004 Location: St. Petersburg, FL Post Count: 607 Status: Offline     RE: Toledo banned from next years postseason...    Posted: 4/20/2012 8:18:48 PM  BuddyLee wrote: I don't know how they calculate these numbers, but how does Kentucky keep players for only 1-2 years without graduating and it's no problem, but Ohio was in danger of missing the tourney?  Seems like there must be a lot of loopholes in the system. The NCAA also allows schools to "buy" credits back. This is how most big programs get away with APR issues; if you show the NCAA that you invested money in tutoring or a new academic building or hiring new staff that's supposed to keep student-athletes in line, they will waive punishment. (I have no idea why that is not more public of knowledge, but that's how it was explained to me by a D-I football coach.) Ohio '99 EMU '00 USF '08(?) Back to Top C Money General User Member Since: 8/28/2010 Post Count: 3,420 Status: Offline     RE: Toledo banned from next years postseason...    Posted: 4/20/2012 10:16:17 PM  Tim Burke wrote: BuddyLee wrote: I don't know how they calculate these numbers, but how does Kentucky keep players for only 1-2 years without graduating and it's no problem, but Ohio was in danger of missing the tourney?  Seems like there must be a lot of loopholes in the system. The NCAA also allows schools to "buy" credits back. This is how most big programs get away with APR issues; if you show the NCAA that you invested money in tutoring or a new academic building or hiring new staff that's supposed to keep student-athletes in line, they will waive punishment. (I have no idea why that is not more public of knowledge, but that's how it was explained to me by a D-I football coach.) Also, I think I read somewhere that it's a double trigger system. Players can leave the program and you don't take an APR hit so long as they aren't in poor academic standing when they leave. Back to Top Monroe Slavin General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Oxnard, CA Post Count: 9,121 Status: Offline     RE: Toledo banned from next years postseason...    Posted: 4/20/2012 11:00:59 PM  There should absolutely be a big hit for players leave early for NBA.  No way 'tucky should be allowed to have the advantage year after year of a whole team of NBA guys who play for only one year unless there are penalties that stop this.  Penalties should get stiff fast as magnified by number of players who go NBA in a year or over a period of years. Oh.  Sorry.  I thought there was 'student' in 'student-athlete.' Where's the band?! WHERE"S THE BAND?! DesignspiritUSA.com The Pets On The Go Collection of pet gear travel bags The Holiday Tote Bigg Bagg Collection--over-sized, reversible, extra pockets; now love carrying packages as much as you love shopping! Back to Top 87OU Alum General User Member Since: 12/23/2007 Location: Macomb, MI Post Count: 123 Status: Offline     RE: Toledo banned from next years postseason...    Posted: 4/21/2012 9:39:27 AM  I'm not sure I agree with that Monroe. The system is what the system is. The NBA will not let these kids in until they are 19 so they either have to go to an NCAA school or play abroad. Personally I like how MLB does it. You can enter the draft right out of High School. If you choose not to enter the draft at that time you are not eligible until your high school class completes their junior year. Back to Top Monroe Slavin General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Oxnard, CA Post Count: 9,121 Status: Offline     RE: Toledo banned from next years postseason...    Posted: 4/21/2012 12:01:44 PM  87OU Alum wrote: I'm not sure I agree with that Monroe. The system is what the system is. The NBA will not let these kids in until they are 19 so they either have to go to an NCAA school or play abroad. Personally I like how MLB does it. You can enter the draft right out of High School. If you choose not to enter the draft at that time you are not eligible until your high school class completes their junior year. 87--I'm confused.  You say that you don't like by big-penalty scheme but posit a scheme that requires a 3 year stay (if don't go pro out of high school).  Your scheme seems to be right in line with my thought that the schools must have the kids stay more than one year. Where's the band?! WHERE"S THE BAND?! DesignspiritUSA.com The Pets On The Go Collection of pet gear travel bags The Holiday Tote Bigg Bagg Collection--over-sized, reversible, extra pockets; now love carrying packages as much as you love shopping! Back to Top mf279801 General User Member Since: 8/6/2010 Location: Newark, DE Post Count: 2,472 Status: Offline     RE: Toledo banned from next years postseason...    Posted: 4/21/2012 12:57:37 PM  Monroe Slavin wrote: 87OU Alum wrote: I'm not sure I agree with that Monroe. The system is what the system is. The NBA will not let these kids in until they are 19 so they either have to go to an NCAA school or play abroad. Personally I like how MLB does it. You can enter the draft right out of High School. If you choose not to enter the draft at that time you are not eligible until your high school class completes their junior year. 87--I'm confused.  You say that you don't like by big-penalty scheme but posit a scheme that requires a 3 year stay (if don't go pro out of high school).  Your scheme seems to be right in line with my thought that the schools must have the kids stay more than one year. The schools have no way of forcing the kids to stay any length of time. The only leverage the school has the threat to withhold the scholarship and  the threat to withhold the transfer release. A school can't prevent a kid from going pro if theres a team out there that wants to hire them. Frankly, a school SHOULDN'T be able to prevent a kid from going pro. If the kid is good enough, its wrong to stand in his way and prevent him from monetizing his skill during that window of opportuntiy. Being in good academic standing when he leaves early demonstrates that he was taking his academic responses serious-ish. An athletic department shouldn't be punished for trying to get kids with NBA-talent into the classroom for a year when those kids leave with decent grades. Would we advocate penalizing a school who has a couple athletes with straight As depart for a school closer to home for family or monetary reasons? Would we advocate penalizing a school because a medicore scholarship player decides to stop being an athlete to focus on his major classes (at that school or at a different school better suited to his career/professional goals)? Would we advocate penalizing a school because some of their athletes depart the program to enlist in the armed forces, or to run for political office? Back to Top Monroe Slavin General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Oxnard, CA Post Count: 9,121 Status: Offline     RE: Toledo banned from next years postseason...    Posted: 4/21/2012 2:15:01 PM  I agree that schools can't and shouldn't be allowed to hold the kids back from going pro. That also raises the elephant in the room about the huge money and the kids getting none of it. But there still should be penalty for kids leaving early for the NBA.  Bigger penalties for more and/or early leaves. It just doesn't pass the smell test for such as 'tucky to be such a shameless stopping point to NBA.  Again, is there 'student' in 'student-athlete' to any extent. FedEx packages falling open with the cash falling out--you try and sell me that the smell of green isn't in the mix here? Where's the band?! WHERE"S THE BAND?! DesignspiritUSA.com The Pets On The Go Collection of pet gear travel bags The Holiday Tote Bigg Bagg Collection--over-sized, reversible, extra pockets; now love carrying packages as much as you love shopping! Back to Top BuddyLee General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Post Count: 682 Status: Offline     RE: Toledo banned from next years postseason...    Posted: 4/21/2012 4:10:06 PM  Maybe a dumb question here, but why are athletic teams penalized because a student athlete fails to meet his responsibilities in the classroom?  If that happens the athlete should either be dismissed from the team and/or school, but how is that the fault of the coach/team if he fails to make grades?  I mean there is an admissions board that lets them into the school, and if they don't make grades then they shouldn't play.  Isn't that penalty enough?  Unless you are knowlingly allowing student athletes to play without going to class or if they are failing then I'm just not sure why a coach would be responsible for them getting good grades.  There's only so much a coach can do, and the academic requirements of each university should take precedent instead of the NCAA  getting involved in handing down additional penalties to the team.  What am I missing here? 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