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Topic: Keeping Coach Groce?

Topic: Keeping Coach Groce?

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born2bleedgreen
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Member Since: 3/23/2005
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Keeping Coach Groce?

Posted: 3/25/2012 9:09:03 PM

Does anyone know what OHIO is doing to try to keep Coach Groce? Knowing Ill. can over pay anything we offer. Just trying to be hopeful, knowing we have a great team returning next year!

Do not let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do. - John Wooden

colobobcat66
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Location: Watching the bobcats run outside my window., CO
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RE: Keeping Coach Groce?

Posted: 3/25/2012 9:47:46 PM

Praying

Andrew Ruck
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Member Since: 12/22/2004
Location: Columbus, OH
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RE: Keeping Coach Groce?

Posted: 3/25/2012 9:49:55 PM

Everyone keeps saying we need to pony up. We just can't afford the kind of dime he can get at places like Illinois.

We need to hope Illinois finds somebody else, because I'm not sure I see another opening Coach would jump to.

Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

bornacatfan
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RE: Keeping Coach Groce?

Posted: 3/25/2012 10:31:26 PM

I think (AND HOPE) JG will turn down Illlinois just like Brad. Those 2 are pretty close and talk so I expect they will discuss it . It is not a *great* stop on the coaching Carousel and I would hope that he would see that as clearly. Next year there will be a lot more openings at better jobs IMHO. Both Brad and he are fromthe west side of Indy and the drive for their families is an easy one but einning consistently there is hard and the travel is difficult both conference and non conference.

I am putting my support firmly in the "stays one more year and gets the dream job" camp....but I really thought Peyton would not leave until I got a firm grasp of the finances involved and the direction Irsay wanted to go.....call me naive....

never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer.....

The game loves and rewards those who love and reward the game

bigtillyoopsupsideurhead
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Member Since: 12/1/2006
Location: Cincinnati
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RE: Keeping Coach Groce?

Posted: 3/25/2012 10:34:06 PM

colobobcat66 wrote:

Praying

You added an extra "r"

The Pessimist
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Member Since: 3/12/2005
Location: Allentown, PA
Post Count: 145

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RE: Keeping Coach Groce?

Posted: 3/25/2012 11:00:07 PM

Here's some good news... he doesn't seem that popular at Illinois. I read comments on articles at espn and illinihq.com that were overwhelmingly negative about Groce even being considered for the job.

I hope he will keep that in mind... and that he doesn't take it as a challenge to win them over.

Ohio may not be the apex of his career, but there's more to be done here. Win the regular season. Get in position for a solid at-large bid for 2013 before heading in to the MAC tourney. Prove that this year wasn't a cinderella story. And fill our pipeline with a string of great recruits so that one of his assistants can pick up right where he left off.

illinidrew
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Member Since: 3/25/2012
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RE: Keeping Coach Groce?

Posted: 3/25/2012 11:02:54 PM

Greetings Ohio fans,
Obviously am an Illinois fan and I come in peace. It appears the people "in the know" are saying John Groce is who we are going to go after as our new coach since we whiffed on the 2 "super-stars". First, I know that sucks for you guys. We went through it with Bill Self when Kansas came calling. As a mid-major, success usually leads to people coming for the coach. Kind of an unfortunate fact of NCAA basketball these days. All most of us know is the tourney run. Was just looking for your opinions on what kind of coach he is if you all are willing to talk. A couple questions.

What kind of offensive style does he like to run? Does he like to get out and run or grind it out?
What about the defense? Does he play any zone or press on a regular basis? Does he switch defenses?
How deep does he like to go off the bench?
How do you feel he is as a recruiter? I know he was Thad's guy for a few years, so assume he is probably solid.

I apologize in advance for any Illini trolls that will inevitably show up on your boards if this moves forward. 99% of the fans are great and the ones online are pretty knowledgeable. Feel free to head to illinoisloyalty or another of the active boards and talk to us. We had a couple of great VCU posters during the Shaka-mania we went through for a bit there.

OhioStunter
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Member Since: 2/18/2005
Location: Chicago
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RE: Keeping Coach Groce?

Posted: 3/25/2012 11:16:01 PM

These are not the droids you're looking for.
(Waves hand)

Last Edited: 3/25/2012 11:17:13 PM by OhioStunter

Andrew Ruck
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Member Since: 12/22/2004
Location: Columbus, OH
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RE: Keeping Coach Groce?

Posted: 3/25/2012 11:19:34 PM

Hey Drew - Coach Groce is a great man who demands a lot from himself and his team. He cares for the well-being of his players and adores the fans and supporters of Ohio Athletics. All that other crap doesn't mean as much to most of us, and as of right now he is still our coach...So I'll stop right there for now. Best of luck in your coaching search.

Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

Ozcat
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Location: Gahanna, OH
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RE: Keeping Coach Groce?

Posted: 3/25/2012 11:27:28 PM

illinidrew wrote:

What kind of offensive style does he like to run? Does he like to get out and run or grind it out?
What about the defense? Does he play any zone or press on a regular basis? Does he switch defenses?
How deep does he like to go off the bench?
How do you feel he is as a recruiter?

He doesn't really know how to run an offense.
Our defense is terrible. He does not like to make adjustments at all.
He has no idea what 'bench' means, let alone how to develop one.
He stinks at recruiting. We don't really have any good players.

Hopefully that answers your questions. Please go share the response with your AD now . . .

cathead
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RE: Keeping Coach Groce?

Posted: 3/25/2012 11:29:06 PM

Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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RE: Keeping Coach Groce?

Posted: 3/25/2012 11:29:50 PM

What kind of offensive style does he like to run? Does he like to get out and run or grind it out? What about the defense? Does he play any zone or press on a regular basis? Does he switch defenses? How deep does he like to go off the bench? How do you feel he is as a recruiter?

illinidrew
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Member Since: 3/25/2012
Post Count: 5

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RE: Keeping Coach Groce?

Posted: 3/25/2012 11:35:10 PM

LOL! If you guys do not want to discuss it right now that is fair enough. Have a good evening.

mf279801
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Member Since: 8/6/2010
Location: Newark, DE
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RE: Keeping Coach Groce?

Posted: 3/25/2012 11:39:22 PM

OhioStunter wrote:

These are not the droids you're looking for.
(Waves hand)

This has me laughing so hard I can hardly breathe! Thanks!

Steve
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Member Since: 12/1/2005
Post Count: 710

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RE: Keeping Coach Groce?

Posted: 3/25/2012 11:43:42 PM

Maintaining a sense of humor is essential in troubled times.

Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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RE: Keeping Coach Groce?

Posted: 3/25/2012 11:47:02 PM

If they believe next year's team can go without skipping a beat under Jeff Boals, I say don't sweeten the pot too much. I wouldn't blame Groce if he wants to leave. But there's no need to be dishing out $300k more a year than he makes if he's just going to leave the next year.

I guess that's assuming Schauss can just speed dial Jeff Boals and he'll say yes. If it's not that cut and dry, there could be some problems bringing in a new coach with a team this firmly entrenched in the program.

Bobcat Debate 73
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Member Since: 11/26/2007
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RE: Keeping Coach Groce?

Posted: 3/25/2012 11:47:18 PM

bornacatfan wrote:

Borna, I hope you are better than your Peyton prognostication! I worry that it may be easier for Stevens to say no with Stevens making maybe double or triple what Groce makes. Illinois wanted to throw a lot of money at Shaka and Stevens, if they quadruple Goce's salary with an offer, multiples years, and a good severance buy out, he may find it tough to turn down this Big Ten job to stay in the Big MAC. However, he is frankly loaded coming back and would have a superlative opportunity to make a third appearance in the NCAA tourney. You and other folks are more knowledgabble than I, but with an excellent record, I would venture to say we could earn an at large bid if we somehow trip up in the MAC play offs. He will have a much better chance of earning a return trip with this team than Illinois' decent roster and tough schedule. This article from the Tribune also shows that there are new president factors and a board of trustees' preference for a minority hire. http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-spt-0326-illinois-basketball--20120326,0,1634851.story . We may be doomed, Groce is an unmistakable member of the oppressed bald minority.

Last Edited: 3/25/2012 11:48:59 PM by Bobcat Debate 73

Newville
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Member Since: 12/24/2007
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RE: Keeping Coach Groce?

Posted: 3/26/2012 1:53:59 AM

I know he's going elsewhere long term. But, don't you want him to be in Athens to finish with the senior class? That would leave me disappointed, but thankful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jUBbCgMWmE

Last Edited: 3/26/2012 1:55:33 AM by Newville

intrpdtrvlr
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Member Since: 7/8/2010
Post Count: 177

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RE: Keeping Coach Groce?

Posted: 3/26/2012 9:27:03 AM

bornacatfan wrote:

I think (AND HOPE) JG will turn down Illlinois just like Brad. Those 2 are pretty close and talk so I expect they will discuss it . It is not a *great* stop on the coaching Carousel and I would hope that he would see that as clearly. Next year there will be a lot more openings at better jobs IMHO. Both Brad and he are fromthe west side of Indy and the drive for their families is an easy one but einning consistently there is hard and the travel is difficult both conference and non conference.

I am putting my support firmly in the "stays one more year and gets the dream job" camp....but I really thought Peyton would not leave until I got a firm grasp of the finances involved and the direction Irsay wanted to go.....call me naive....

Do you have any in mind? I've been asking myself the same.

I was expecting Groce to stay (I thought he could do better than Nebraska) until the illiniois talk got serious. I agree, there is no doubt that the job is damaged good now. To me, that's the biggest deterrent. It isn't the job it was a year ago. If the transition out of the Weber-era had been handled more smoothly, that's a very good coaching position. You really recruit and win there. It doesn't have the ceiling that some other jobs we've talked about possess.

I could argue it either way. I wouldn't pretend to know what to do unless I knew what's inside Groce's head and all the details of the position. Seems like a big-time gig for him to pass on though. He's not on Stevens or Shaka's level yet.

BA - Michigan State '03, MA - Ohio '05, PhD - Ohio '15

mollautt
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Location: Milford, OH
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RE: Keeping Coach Groce?

Posted: 3/26/2012 1:23:36 PM

=>The Difference Between Midmajor and High Major Basketball:

It is amazing that in 4 years at Ohio, Groce has gone like 9th, 9th, 5th, and 3rd overall in the MAC (combined 34-30 I think) and is now the hottest name in the country right now for open BCS jobs.

Meanwhile, during that same 4 year period, Miami went 3rd, 3rd, 2nd, and 10th and Miami had a better overall MAC record 35-29. The result, Charlie Coles was essentially run out of Oxford.

All of that based on how each coach's schools did in 3 days in Cleveland without time to really prep for each game and then NCAA success beyond that.

Had Miami beat OU in the MAC semis a few years ago and had Akron pulled out the win in the MAC final a few weeks ago, nobody would have heard of John Groce and he would have been considered a ho hum average coach in an upper tier midmajor league.

Compare that to the high major conferences. 3 of the Final 4 teams (UK, OSU, KU) did not win their conference tournaments. Had those schools been in a 1 bid league, they would have never had the chance to make the deep NCAA runs. Matta, Cal, and Self could name any job they wanted right now (another college, NBA, etc.) if they wanted to leave their schools.

The difference in criteria of success for midmajor and high major basketball on a coach's career has always just fascinated me.

Miami Basketball: 2005 MAC Regular Season Champs! 2007 MAC Tourney Champs! Most MAC regular season titles, Street & Smith #47 all-time basketball program!

Miami Football: 2003 Non-BCS/Coalition National Champs, 2003 MAC Champs, 2003 GMAC Bowl Champs, 2004 MAC East Champs, 2005 MAC East Co-Champs, 2007 MAC East Champs, 2010 MAC Champs, 2010 GoDaddy.com Bowl Champs, Most wins alltime for Non-BCS program (#2 in winning %), Most MAC titles

Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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RE: Keeping Coach Groce?

Posted: 3/26/2012 1:32:13 PM

Yes, the man who recruited Greg Oden,Mike Conley and D.J. cooper would go completely unnoticed.

Do you think conference finishes drive hires? Honestly?

It's about recruiting. That's it.

Charlie Coles didn't forget how to coach. He just stopped recruiting good talent. That's why he was run out of town.

Last Edited: 3/26/2012 1:35:27 PM by Brian Smith (No, not that one)

mollautt
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Location: Milford, OH
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RE: Keeping Coach Groce?

Posted: 3/26/2012 1:34:02 PM

=>No.

Postseason drives big hires. That is what fascinates me.

Miami Basketball: 2005 MAC Regular Season Champs! 2007 MAC Tourney Champs! Most MAC regular season titles, Street & Smith #47 all-time basketball program!

Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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RE: Keeping Coach Groce?

Posted: 3/26/2012 1:36:53 PM

mollautt wrote:

=>No.

Postseason drives big hires. That is what fascinates me.

Going into Chicago and pulling out D.J. Cooper drives big hires.

Casper71
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RE: Keeping Coach Groce?

Posted: 3/26/2012 1:38:22 PM

For a mid major like Ohio it is always better to be hot in March and Groce has been just that. I do tend to agree he hasn't won an East division title (yet) and his MAC record, while improving, is probably not where Smart and Stevens are.

All that siad, he is still probably the hottest mid major standing right now.

Like borna and others, I would think he needs one more solid year to make him the first choice of many...not third or fourth choice of just one!

mollautt
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Location: Milford, OH
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RE: Keeping Coach Groce?

Posted: 3/26/2012 1:42:38 PM

=>Nope Brian.

Does not matter that he recruited studs to OSU. Does not matter he recruited D.J. Cooper to Ohio. None of that matters. There are lots of assistant coaches at high major programs who have recruiting NBA players. There are lots of head coaches at midmajors that have recruited 1st team all-league kids.

Had Miami beat OU in the MAC semis a few years ago and had Akron pulled out the win in the MAC final a few weeks ago, nobody would have heard of John Groce and he would have been considered a ho hum average coach in an upper tier midmajor league. John Groce's name was all over the place with Nebraska, SIU, and now Illinois because of 2 MAC tourney titles and 3 NCAA wins.

That is the truth about midmajor basketball.

Last Edited: 3/26/2012 1:44:02 PM by mollautt

Miami Basketball: 2005 MAC Regular Season Champs! 2007 MAC Tourney Champs! Most MAC regular season titles, Street & Smith #47 all-time basketball program!

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