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Topic: Groce contract

Topic: Groce contract

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Kevin Finnegan
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Groce contract

Posted: 3/19/2012 5:07:55 PM

Everybody keeps talking about how Groce may be looking to exit after this year. I don't see it. I think he'll exit stage left w/ Cooper, Offutt, Keely, and Baltic. But just to ensure that, why not sign him to a BIG deal that will never likely play out, something like 5 years $5 million. At $1 million/year, I think it's a safe bet that he won't then leave for a next step school (a la Geno), but rather for a Big 6 conference school w/ some history. Attach a buyout to it so that we can reap some financial rewards if/when he leaves, setting us up to pay our next coach a competitive salary.

If McDavis is saying he wants us to get to that next level, it's going to cost. The good news, though, is that it's also going to pay us back. Starting next year likely ranked w/ news coverage and magazine articles will give the school free publicity that will more than offset the salary that Groce would be bringing in.

DayvidGallagher
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RE: Groce contract

Posted: 3/19/2012 5:16:42 PM

While I like this in theory, I don't think we can make him sign an extension like you mentioned, and even though I think he wants to help Ohio as much as he can, it would potentially hurt his job opportunities as suitor schools will see his price tag as including a big buyout.

If i was him I would not agree to a contract like that because it offers him very little in exchange for risking his opportunities. However maybe you could offset some of that risk to him by offering him a very high salary as part of that extension should no one want to buy him out. But then who foots the bill if that happens?

“The thing that gets lost in the deal is we’re Ohio University. We’re Ohio. We liked to be referred to as Ohio. That’s who we are." - John Groce

Gallia Cat
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RE: Groce contract

Posted: 3/19/2012 5:28:38 PM

If I were a betting man I would guess something like what you just mentioned is already in the works. When it comes down to it Ohio wont be able to compete with Illinois. But giving him a contract similar to what you described I think would keep him at least one more year. His stock is good this year but it will sky rocket next year if Ohio spends the year ranked in top 25 and makes a deep tournament run. Another thing to consider is that performance incentives are built into his contract. Larry Hunter had bonuses included for MAC regular season, MAC tournament and for each win in NCAA that went all the way to the national championship. Solich has incentives structured same way that includes BCS bowls. One thing that will have to happen is coach Solich 's contract will need to be reviewed at same time. That very common when the 2 revenue sports have success you want to make sure both coaches and their staff feel they are being treated equally.

Bobcat Grad 86
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RE: Groce contract

Posted: 3/19/2012 6:38:45 PM

Maybe we can get Coach Groce some local endorsement deals like Jim Grobe got with the Winston Salem Waffle House?

TWT
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RE: Groce contract

Posted: 3/19/2012 6:41:15 PM

Solich's contract is due for review with 2 years remaining. I suspect he'll want to cash in at Ohio while he can before he retires. Groce is at the point with the Ohio program where there aren't many attractive jobs open above him and it could take longer than some expect to move on. Maybe not with the Sweet 16 run.

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giacomo
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RE: Groce contract

Posted: 3/19/2012 7:29:53 PM

If he gets an offer from a bigger school, he will probably take it. I'm guessing a total package at Illinois would be 900k - 1.25M per year for 5 years. Even if it's not his dream job he has to take it. When will anybody's dream job be offered to them? He feathers his nest, then if he is not successful he takes a top asst with a crony or coaches another level down. When Bo Ryan took over Wisconsin, that was nobodys dream job and look at what he's made of it.

Ohio69
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RE: Groce contract

Posted: 3/19/2012 7:36:35 PM

Well, we'll do our best to keep him but we don't have any money.

There is no big check coming from the NCAA for out two wins.

We can't afford to pay a coach $1 million per year.

He'll go when the right multimillion dollar deal appears and I don't blame him. I will thank him and wish him well.

Last Edited: 3/19/2012 7:39:29 PM by Ohio69

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D.A.
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RE: Groce contract

Posted: 3/19/2012 8:03:05 PM

Ohio69 wrote:

Each of the full MAC members will receive $200k for the Michigan win, $400K for the USF, and another $800K when we beat UNC under the MAC's split program. That will be a $1.4MM check from the NCAA.

Last Edited: 3/19/2012 8:04:01 PM by D.A.

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Mike Coleman
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RE: Groce contract

Posted: 3/19/2012 8:21:15 PM

D.A. wrote:

Ohio69 wrote:

Each of the full MAC members will receive $200k for the Michigan win, $400K for the USF, and another $800K when we beat UNC under the MAC's split program. That will be a $1.4MM check from the NCAA.

NCAA tourney units are $1.5 million per game this year I believe.
So far Ohio has earned the MAC $4.5 million. If that's split 12 ways that is $375,000 per school paid out over five or six years.
This really needs to be done over multi-year period for budgetary significance. For example, the Big East made something like $13 million before a game even tipped. You are paid for games played not wins.

Last Edited: 3/19/2012 8:24:27 PM by Mike Coleman

Ohio69
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RE: Groce contract

Posted: 3/19/2012 9:13:31 PM

$375K paid out over 5-6 years ain't much.

Last Edited: 3/19/2012 9:14:39 PM by Ohio69

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

mf279801
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RE: Groce contract

Posted: 3/19/2012 9:37:30 PM

By my reading of the rules, it'd be $375,000 per year for 6 years. No?

Ted Thompson
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RE: Groce contract

Posted: 3/19/2012 9:41:00 PM

mf279801 wrote:

By my reading of the rules, it'd be $375,000 per year for 6 years. No?

No. Each $1.5M unit is paid out over 6 years. So the $4.5M is $375K per school over a 6-year period. Plus, Ohio has only earned the league an incremental $3M.

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crackerbaby00
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RE: Groce contract

Posted: 3/19/2012 9:53:10 PM

According to Rivals, the payout this year is $1.9 million per game, so we are currently at $5.7 million earned for the conference at this point. That boils down to $475k per school. Is is correct, however, that the payouts occur over a 6 year period.

If I did my math correctly, game played in this year's tournament generates $158k for each MAC school. That is paid out over 6 years, so each school receives roughly $26,333 each year from the NCAA. While this does not seem like a lot, you have to also factor in that the conference is also being paid for the other 5 years that are included in the rolling payouts.

It is easy to see how the payouts can add up when league receive more than 1 bid in a year. As the article stated, the Big East will receive more than $15 million just for the teams that made it into the field of 64 (after the First Four were played). If the MAC were able to receive just a 2nd bid each year, and those teams were able to win at least 1 game between them, we would be looking at similar payouts that Ohio has earned this year. If both teams were able to get past the first weekend, it would be looking at more than $79,000 for each school, per year. Over a 6 year period of similar results, that is an extra $474,000 to each school each year. A nice chunk of change to help keep successful coaches from leaving for another mid-major or a lower tier Big 6 school.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=ys-forbes-final_four_trip_worth_millions_031412

Last Edited: 3/19/2012 9:53:27 PM by crackerbaby00

Mike Coleman
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RE: Groce contract

Posted: 3/19/2012 10:05:24 PM

Also, the MAC changed its rules so the pot is not split evenly anymore. I'm not sure exactly how the formula pays out (based on tourney appearances and scheduling benchmarks) but I think it's safe to assume Ohio will be getting more money over the next few years than most of its MAC brethren.

Last Edited: 3/19/2012 10:06:32 PM by Mike Coleman

OU_Country
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RE: Groce contract

Posted: 3/19/2012 10:14:08 PM

giacomo wrote:

In a prior thread, I think I read an article about the Illini job being worth more like $1.5 mil to $2 mil. Whether that's with all incentives or not, I don't know. What I do know is that at the moment, the Illinois job appears to be primarily Shaka Smart's to say no to. After Illinois and Nebraska, what other job openings are out there besides this one?

crackerbaby00
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RE: Groce contract

Posted: 3/19/2012 10:17:06 PM

Mike Coleman wrote:

It would be awesome if we had similar rules to CUSA. I read somewhere that they give the school that earned the payout 50% of the payout and then split the remainder 13 ways (league office takes a cut). Think about the raise we could give Groce based on 5 NCAA games the last 3 years. We would be looking at $4.35 million just from those 2 tourney appearances.

intrpdtrvlr
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RE: Groce contract

Posted: 3/19/2012 10:35:56 PM

OU_Country wrote:

giacomo wrote:

In a prior thread, I think I read an article about the Illini job being worth more like $1.5 mil to $2 mil. Whether that's with all incentives or not, I don't know. What I do know is that at the moment, the Illinois job appears to be primarily Shaka Smart's to say no to. After Illinois and Nebraska, what other job openings are out there besides this one?

And those aren't even comparable jobs. My short take is that I would totally understand Groce jumping for Illiinois. That's a major job with great potential. Nebraska would be an incredible uphill struggle for any coach. You might get that first contract but what are the odds you get fired when you can't do anything better than lift them into the low-middle pack of the conference? I just don't see that as an attractive job to someone in Groce's position unless the payday is irresistible If that's his option, I'd advise him to give it one more year and try to make more noise with this unit. Unless 2012-2013 is a total disaster, Groce will still have some options to move up. If it's a success, he can probably do better than Nebraska.

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giacomo
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RE: Groce contract

Posted: 3/19/2012 10:50:46 PM

Shaka is worth more than Groce at this point. Illinois would pay him more. Nebraska is not a bad job now that they are in the Big Ten. Their expectations are lower in hoops than in football. They want to win the right way. I'm not sure where their salary level is.

Chuck_IV
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RE: Groce contract

Posted: 3/19/2012 11:50:09 PM

I honestly think Groce will stay thru next year. I think he and DJ are dedicated to each other at this point and with the dedication DJ showed after his freshman year and being contacted by Tenn and Baylor, I'd be surprised to see Groce leave before the end of DJ's run.

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RE: Groce contract

Posted: 3/19/2012 11:57:24 PM

The way he's been getting choked up in the videos, I would venture to guess that the odds of his leaving anytime soon are not very high.

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intrpdtrvlr
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RE: Groce contract

Posted: 3/20/2012 8:09:19 AM

giacomo wrote:

Oh, for sure, but Shaka hasn't said 'yes' yet and there's conflicting reports about how likely that is to happen. I don't think Groce is the 1st or even 2nd choice but with Ohio's success and the job still open, things can change fast.

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OhioCatFan
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RE: Groce contract

Posted: 3/20/2012 8:15:29 AM

+1 Ringo

I've heard from folks who know him much better than I do that he's a "different kind of bird" and has different kinds of personal priorities than the average bird. Time will tell if he flys away or builds a permanent nest in Athens. He also has an extremely strong personal bond with Schaus, which may be a factor in his decision making process. I could be wrong and maybe he'll take the first train out of Dodge, but those are not the vibes I'm getting.

Last Edited: 3/20/2012 8:17:13 AM by OhioCatFan

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bornacatfan
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RE: Groce contract

Posted: 3/20/2012 8:28:59 AM

crackerbaby00 wrote:

Surprised along with the Bye System for the tourney the coaches of NEO did not push for this....Oh wait....they are just happy to win the MAC tourney and get there....they did not ever plan on WINNING games and advancing

Would be nice if Coach would take an incentive laden contract that provided Big money for success with a roster that stays intact and trades an athletic SF for a Big School Transfer BIG. With no Buy out ....he buys a year for a better position to open up and better money....I maintain...even though it is an easy trip from Danville IN to Champaign....Illinois is not a GREAT job...JG should figure out the money side here while capitalizing on the fact that there is no buy out and wait for the coaching carousel to open up the best job for him in terms of recruiting, family, fanbase expectations and of course....the money. Gotta think his HS guy....Coach Lickliter has some insight into fanbases that expect production that JG would call on.....

Last Edited: 3/20/2012 8:35:26 AM by bornacatfan

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Ohio69
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RE: Groce contract

Posted: 3/20/2012 8:30:35 AM

Nevermind.... (deleted)

Last Edited: 3/20/2012 8:32:17 AM by Ohio69

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

athena
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RE: Groce contract

Posted: 3/20/2012 8:35:58 AM

Ringo wrote:

The way he's been getting choked up in the videos, I would venture to guess that the odds of his leaving anytime soon are not very high.

I noticed he got choked up in one of the interviews when he talked about Athens being a special place. I've also noticed that just about every time he makes mention of building a program, he says he isn't finished yet. I think he stays at least another year to finish out with this group of players.

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