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Topic: Trio of weaknesses

Topic: Trio of weaknesses

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bobcat 2000
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Member Since: 1/21/2006
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Trio of weaknesses

Posted: 3/24/2021 12:29:59 AM

Creighton exposed three weaknesses Jeff boals will have to fix ASAP. First is our longstanding inability to defend the three point shot. The next is being unable to stop teams with athletic bigs from driving straight to the rim. Finally there's the issue of crappy transition defense. It seemed like we missed shots and creighton came back down the court to score. These things are real set of problems that need to be fixed if we have hope for more NCAA success

BillyTheCat
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RE: Trio of weaknesses

Posted: 3/24/2021 3:15:18 AM

bobcat 2000 wrote:

I�m curious how we won any games at all with such glaring weaknesses.

bobcatsquared
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RE: Trio of weaknesses

Posted: 3/24/2021 6:34:54 AM

Disagree with your not so subtle sarcasm, BTC. It's one thing to win non-league games or even MAC games. It's another thing to go deeper into the NCAA tourney. I would add an upgrade to the roster - if we want Ohio to do more than win the MAC and a first round game.

Last Edited: 3/24/2021 6:39:06 AM by bobcatsquared

TWT
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Location: Alexandria, VA
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RE: Trio of weaknesses

Posted: 3/24/2021 8:24:37 AM

bobcatsquared wrote:

Could very well upgrade the roster next year and not make the MAC final. Boals early success is more a shot in the arm for the long term as now he's the only coach in the MAC that can say he's won in the NCAA tournament.

Creighton has made the NCAAs 12 times since 2000 and this is their first sweet 16. Several top 25 regular seasons during that timespan and a move to the Big East. Better recruits gives you more success on average but they have to execute. Gonzaga for a long time was like Creighton where they'd underperform in the tournament after the initial over performance that got their program going in the 90's.

Typically you'll start to see tournament success carryover to the regular season first with greater in conference expectations. Then see if they can win the conference tournament as a favorite. Ohio has a ways to go to be the type of program that is a lock to make the second round.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

CatsUp
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RE: Trio of weaknesses

Posted: 3/24/2021 8:48:00 AM

Club Hyatt wrote:

bobcatsquared wrote:

Did John Groce leave Akron?

TWT
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RE: Trio of weaknesses

Posted: 3/24/2021 8:55:29 AM

CatsUp wrote:

Club Hyatt wrote:

bobcatsquared wrote:

Did John Groce leave Akron?

Sorry I meant win a NCAA game with their current team. If there is anything Ohio might be close to a lock for next year is to make the MAC semis which for an average MAC program is a big accomplishment.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

Buckeye to Bobcat
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RE: Trio of weaknesses

Posted: 3/24/2021 9:51:34 AM

Club Hyatt wrote:

CatsUp wrote:

Club Hyatt wrote:

bobcatsquared wrote:

Did John Groce leave Akron?

There is one thing I have learned watching this league all my life from other perspectives. There is no such thing as a guarantee when it comes to those 3 days in March. All it takes is one day for your opponent to be hitting, and you to be missing, and it combines for you to go home. Have watched multiple teams who I thought could make noise if they got to the NCAAs blow it in the MAC quarters or semi's.

OU_Country
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Location: On the road between Athens and Madison County
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RE: Trio of weaknesses

Posted: 3/24/2021 11:14:08 AM

Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:

Club Hyatt wrote:

CatsUp wrote:

Club Hyatt wrote:

bobcatsquared wrote:

Did John Groce leave Akron?

Agree with this. So many potential things can happen in conference tournament basketball. This year's MAC Tournament -- going into it -- was deemed to be a crap shoot that any of the 8 teams that came to Cleveland could win. Ohio won, and won with authority. That doesn't mean that should be assumed to be the norm in coming years.

I would hope that this fan base on this board has learned one thing as a result of the time from 2014 to 2021: that it's great to want to see OUr school do great things, but assuming, expecting, and damn near demanding that making the NCAA tournament and winning games in it be the norm, well, that's unrealistic and plain foolish right now. Not in 2021-22, not in my opinion anyway. If Boals stays for ten more years and perhaps lays groundwork to establish dominance in the conference, then maybe that changes in the future.

TWT
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RE: Trio of weaknesses

Posted: 3/24/2021 12:47:03 PM

The hyper attentiveness of the bobcat fanbase is going to be centered on the MAC Final and on to the NCAAs. I watched the quarters and semis on TV the average alum isn't savvy about finding games on second tier networks.

Therefore the regular season does matter because a high seed does increase the probability of making the MAC Final, it increases the amount the Bobcats are talked about by the media in the season, turns out more Bobcat fans in Athens, away games and at neutral sites.

Its all about probabilities. Creighton and other Big East teams recruit better athletes even if its at the expense of chemistry because on average you'll be more successful. Ohio had great chemistry this year in the conference tournament but has a ways to go with the athletes across 13 scholarships.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Miami @ Peden front of 25,086

Jeff McKinney
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RE: Trio of weaknesses

Posted: 3/24/2021 1:08:28 PM

OU_Country wrote:

Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:

Club Hyatt wrote:

CatsUp wrote:

Club Hyatt wrote:

bobcatsquared wrote:

Did John Groce leave Akron?

I basically agree with this. Remember all the ill-conceived "demands" on here to make another big post-season run after the 2012 Sweet 16 team, due to not having roster losses?

So far, I'm not seeing a lot of that crap on BA, but I am seeing a little of that on Fb posts among people who don't really follow college hoops seriously. I'm seeing people posting that we have a real shot at being Top 25 with another post season, Sweet 16 type of season. Always nice to hope the stars align and all that happens, but to *expect* it based on this season?? 🙄

OU_Country
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RE: Trio of weaknesses

Posted: 3/24/2021 2:32:11 PM

Jeff McKinney wrote:

My sentiments exactly. I'm pumped and excited for next year as a result. I won't be expecting to be Dancin' next year. I'll be hoping for it, and pretty much setting aside time now to go to Thurs thru Saturday in Cleveland.

CatsUp
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RE: Trio of weaknesses

Posted: 3/24/2021 2:57:47 PM

I get the flashes of athleticism and above the rim plays that Creighton displayed on occasion and how it catches attention. However, I think we were much closer to them as an effective basketball team than at least some are thinking. I think our guys were fully capable of winning that game. I know about �it�s, ands & buts� but I�ll say it anyway....if we hit just slightly below (which would be 10-30) our season three point shooting percentage instead of 7-30, do better at the line, say 11-16 instead 9-16 (not to mention front ends missed), and perhaps close out better on one or two of their threes, we are right there clawing for victory in the last minute. None of those different outcomes are that much of stretch.

bobcat 2000
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RE: Trio of weaknesses

Posted: 3/24/2021 4:21:32 PM

You have a point here. In the second half ou started to expose some weakness in creightons game.if one payed attention they'd see that creighton committed noticeably more fouls and we had more free throws. If we make more of those free throws and didn't fall apart the last 7 minutes of first half we probably couldve won that game. The good thing here is we didn't have to play gonzaga. That'd would've been a total blowout from start to finish. It would've been a scoring clinic courtesy of drew timme and Corey kispert. Final score in that would've been Gonzaga 120. Ou 70 or something similar

.
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RE: Trio of weaknesses

Posted: 3/25/2021 1:06:41 PM

My hope is we start to go to the NCAA every 3-4 rather than every 8-10 years. That�s a realistic goal.

OU_Country
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RE: Trio of weaknesses

Posted: 3/25/2021 2:15:24 PM

. wrote:

My hope is we start to go to the NCAA every 3-4 rather than every 8-10 years. That�s a realistic goal.

Once every 3-4 years is realistic -- if there's some continuity within the coaching staff. That's been the biggest roadblock since 2012 in my mind.

spongeBOB CATpants
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RE: Trio of weaknesses

Posted: 3/25/2021 4:17:26 PM

OU_Country wrote:

. wrote:

My hope is we start to go to the NCAA every 3-4 rather than every 8-10 years. That�s a realistic goal.

Once every 3-4 years is realistic -- if there's some continuity within the coaching staff. That's been the biggest roadblock since 2012 in my mind.

I'd like to see us start a Buffalo type of run. They won 4 of 5 MAC tournaments with a shot at 5 of 6. Pieces are in place. Next year is critical.

Jeff McKinney
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RE: Trio of weaknesses

Posted: 3/25/2021 4:33:57 PM

The secret to Buffalo's run has been continuity in their coaching situation. Hurley to Oats to Whitesell...all doing the similar things in a similar way. Gotta give Hurley a heckuva lot of credit for identifying coaching talent in Oats while he was still a HS coach in Michigan.

Not sure how they've been able to recruit the high major talent, though.

OU_Country
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RE: Trio of weaknesses

Posted: 3/25/2021 4:50:47 PM

Jeff McKinney wrote:

I can think of potential way$ that have happened in other places.

OU_Country
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RE: Trio of weaknesses

Posted: 3/25/2021 4:52:43 PM

spongeBOB CATpants wrote:

OU_Country wrote:

. wrote:

My hope is we start to go to the NCAA every 3-4 rather than every 8-10 years. That�s a realistic goal.

Once every 3-4 years is realistic -- if there's some continuity within the coaching staff. That's been the biggest roadblock since 2012 in my mind.

I'd like to see us start a Buffalo type of run. They won 4 of 5 MAC tournaments with a shot at 5 of 6. Pieces are in place. Next year is critical.

Next year is really a lot like 2013. Lots of opportunity to take a big step toward being a dominant program within the MAC. A lot of things need to go right for it to happen though.

BillyTheCat
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RE: Trio of weaknesses

Posted: 3/25/2021 6:02:24 PM

OU_Country wrote:

spongeBOB CATpants wrote:

OU_Country wrote:

. wrote:

My hope is we start to go to the NCAA every 3-4 rather than every 8-10 years. That�s a realistic goal.

Once every 3-4 years is realistic -- if there's some continuity within the coaching staff. That's been the biggest roadblock since 2012 in my mind.

I'd like to see us start a Buffalo type of run. They won 4 of 5 MAC tournaments with a shot at 5 of 6. Pieces are in place. Next year is critical.

Next year is really a lot like 2013. Lots of opportunity to take a big step toward being a dominant program within the MAC. A lot of things need to go right for it to happen though.

One difference is the 2012 team sneaked into the NCAA tournament while the 2021 team took the tournament by storm.

Diamond Cat
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RE: Trio of weaknesses

Posted: 3/25/2021 6:40:42 PM

Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:

Club Hyatt wrote:

CatsUp wrote:

Club Hyatt wrote:

bobcatsquared wrote:

Did John Groce leave Akron?

This is where I am 100%. Been to MAC Tourney Games since the 80's. Days of stress and uneasiness. Yet I go year after year and Love it. This year was special. I am sure it may have happened but we rolled thru Cleveland in a way I had not seen in my time.

longtiimelurker
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RE: Trio of weaknesses

Posted: 3/25/2021 7:19:06 PM

In reading this thread I was curious to see what is going on in Buffalo. I went over to read their message board and found this lengthy jab and parry. Kind of more than I thought I would find on a Bulls message board for some reason. At the end of the reply was a link to an article running down another MAC program. In the answer I see a problem. Everyone thinks they are the next Butler, Gonzaga or whomever else we hold to be the newly established model to follow. Why don't we just go win and establish the program. For those who have nothing better to do I cut and pasted the verbal parry https://ubfan.com/bb/index.php?/topic/922-jim-whitesell/p...

" On 3/24/2021 at 10:55 AM, skrabukes said:
Continuously knocking everyone isn't the way I work or how I'd ever want any colleague or staffer to work. I want nothing more than to see UB excel, which is why I've always donated and attended every game, even in the cellar dwelling days of old. I just simply can't see how you or anyone can sit there and just rarely have anything positive to say. Again, that's your choice, but I won't see it that way. You say it's because you "have high standards". If your standard is 90% MAC wins and a lock for winning in Cleveland, than you're delusional. If you're standard is 70% +/- MAC wins and in contention year in and year out in Cleveland, than I'm fully on board. Of course we want the first, but it hasn't ever happened in MAC history before.

RESPONSE

Hate to beat a dead horse, but I can't resist the debate. Plus I'm on vacation and my 2 year old is napping, so I'll unload my thoughts in stream of consciousness fashion while I have this window and beg forgiveness from the UB fandom for a long post.

You're right in the sense that this year wasn't a total loss. 2 seed, MAC finals, postseason birth in a meaningful tournament (NIT). Whitesell was brought on, seemingly, for a sense of continuity. He preserved what was left of the returning core from the Oats era- which, in the modern day (800+ names in the portal already this season, up from 430ish at this time last year) is an accomplishment in and of itself. Clearly he has better buy in from people more important to the success of this team (our student athletes) than from message board posters like me.

But there has to be room for criticism on a fan site. We had every advantage after Oats departure (returning core, name recognition allowing us to compete at our highest level ever for recruits, continuity in coaching) and did not capitalize as many of us had hoped. A lot of the frustration I sense on this board (and personally feel) is that we performed as less than the sum of our parts for the first part of the season. And the complaints were loudest this year at a point where we sat 4-4 in conference with several home losses. Many of those losses included complete no-show halves that put us in a near hopeless position to capture a W. When looking at our roster and realizing that we had a surging junior class complete with Williams (numbers similar to CJ), Mballa, and Segu and the return of an all conference player in Graves these results were a massive disappointment. When coupled with NCAA sanctions and two violent crimes committed by members of our roster at the open of fall semester, I think open complaints about the our coach and state of the program weren't just understandable but well earned. I guess where I'm going with this- as I made at least a few comments damning Whitesell- is that every comment the anti-Whitesell crowd is making isn't negative, and that this staff and team earned some of the condemnation thrown its way.

What's more, fair or not, once the level of expectations have been raised simple wins don't garner a similar level of compliments (which I believe you asked for in prior posts). My mother is a stern Scottish woman, and she was a teacher. When I brought home a 99, she replied: "What did you miss?." If I brought home a 93, she asked: "Oh, no. What went wrong?" And she describes the best meal of her life as: "not too bad." Around here, given our recent track record, racking up wins is expected- again, many of us feel our roster, given its intermittently oustanding play and pedigree, should be doing so regularly against MAC competition. Doing so isn't deserving of flowery praise- its the baseline expectation if we want to uplift this program to new heights. And even if we did steamroll, that would be our 99: What did we miss? What can we improve upon?

Can a season's success or failure can be captured in binary terms. Probably not. We surged. The staff and players deserve credit for turning our season around in the face of adversity. We ran out of gas against a rested and hot team in the MAC finals and lost a tightly contested NIT game against a team who was likely one win away from an at large berth. That said, I won't classify this as an unmitigated success, either. Our goal, year in and year out, is to win the MAC and make the NCAA tournament. I'm happy with 70% MAC wins and being in contention year in/year out. I remember the dark days, too. I'm not happy, anymore, if some of those seasons don't end with televised games on CBS/TNT/TBS in far flung cities. I think results, namely NCAA tournament appearances, matter, and should be how our coaches are measured moving forward. I don't want to be Kent St. I want to be Butler.

Is it fair to fire a man after a slightly above average season year 1 and improvement and MAC tournament final year 2? No. But if he keeps this core intact and can't bring us back next year, I don't see him doing it at UB. We have big holes to fill next year, and haven't had any semblance of consistent outside shooting as a team for two years, but with a few roster moves (PG, SG, perimeter defender to take on the likes of Jason Preston) should be right back at the table with a chance to dance. I think JW has earned the right to do so. I'll cheer for this team every step of the way. I hope he brings home a title. I've been wrong about our coaches plenty of times: I defended RW even after his dismissal (clean program, new heights I feared losing with change), dismissed Hurley just before our surge (big name and poor results when 6-6 mid way through season of first NCAA trip), questioned why we would follow Hurley with a high school coach (whoops?). I was wrong on every count. I hope I'm wrong on this one, too. Maybe I should argue more vehemently against him to ensure our success next year.

Also- side note- lets hope we never sink to this level:

https://www.thestarpress.com/story/sports/college/ball-st... "

.
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RE: Trio of weaknesses

Posted: 3/25/2021 8:05:14 PM

Given their word counts, UB fans have too much time on their hands.

Good Lord.

Are these posts about the travails of a mid-major basketball program or a Lawrence Wright New Yorker piece?

Last Edited: 3/25/2021 8:09:20 PM by .

bornacatfan
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RE: Trio of weaknesses

Posted: 3/25/2021 8:35:46 PM

Haha
It's Buffalo. What else ya got to do?

Thanks for the star mess link. Just in the Barber shop today. Guys were asking me if I thought Whit was going to be around next year. When I said 'without a doubt" they then aske if I thought he SHOULD be...... I still like him. Just not sure why he is not winning. He is getting good talent. Seems to have a good staff. Fans and townfolks are getting restless over here. Sure seems like a lifetime ago when Tommy was having Roman Mueller, Paris McCurdy and Curtis Kidd lifting him up to dunk his mini ball in front of Majerus.

Interesting take on Butler in that long read.

Oh and BTW ... it drives me crazy when their team gets an NCAA "birth"

Last Edited: 3/25/2021 8:37:45 PM by bornacatfan

never argue with idiots, they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Winter comes and asks how you spent your summer.....

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OU_Country
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RE: Trio of weaknesses

Posted: 3/26/2021 10:22:33 AM

BillyTheCat wrote:

OU_Country wrote:

spongeBOB CATpants wrote:

OU_Country wrote:

. wrote:

My hope is we start to go to the NCAA every 3-4 rather than every 8-10 years. That�s a realistic goal.

Once every 3-4 years is realistic -- if there's some continuity within the coaching staff. That's been the biggest roadblock since 2012 in my mind.

I'd like to see us start a Buffalo type of run. They won 4 of 5 MAC tournaments with a shot at 5 of 6. Pieces are in place. Next year is critical.

Next year is really a lot like 2013. Lots of opportunity to take a big step toward being a dominant program within the MAC. A lot of things need to go right for it to happen though.

One difference is the 2012 team sneaked into the NCAA tournament while the 2021 team took the tournament by storm.

If you're referring to the MAC Tournament, yes, I agree. That is different. The rest has some similarity, at least to me.

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