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Topic:  Dartis Injury

Topic:  Dartis Injury
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  Dartis Injury
   Posted: 1/14/2020 9:34:27 PM 
It looked very bad to me. I hope that it's not. We need him! Though he hasn't been in top form yet, I've seen the "old Dartis" in spurts every now and then but not consistently. I was assuming he'd get better and better as the season rolled on, but now with this latest injury I fear his collegiate basketball career may be over. He has been such a loyal Bobcat and came back when many others would have packed it in long ago. I, for one, really respect this young man for his courage and tenacity. I sincerely hope that he can recover from this injury and continue his improving trajectory this year! Go Dartis! Go OHIO!

Last Edited: 1/14/2020 9:34:43 PM by OhioCatFan

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Dartis Injury
   Posted: 1/14/2020 9:36:46 PM 
I now hear that it may have just been a bad cramp. That would be very good news. Hope that's right.

Last Edited: 1/14/2020 9:37:04 PM by OhioCatFan

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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JSF
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  Message Not Read  RE: Dartis Injury
   Posted: 1/15/2020 12:35:42 AM 
Funny how that works. A terrible-looking injury can be just cramps while the injury that ended Tony Campbell's career looked benign at the time.

"Loyalty to a hometown or city is fleeting and interchangeable, but college is a stamp of identity."- Kyle Whelliston, One Beautiful Season.

My blog about depression and mental illness: https://bit.ly/3buGXH8

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greencat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Dartis Injury
   Posted: 1/15/2020 12:35:43 AM 
Hope he's ok. Looked like he got his foot stepped on and twisted something in real time but hard to tell.

The bench combined for 0 points in 45 minutes on the floor. I won't bring up Saul's "recruiting" as that has been covered extensively before.
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Old Guy
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  Message Not Read  RE: Dartis Injury
   Posted: 1/15/2020 12:52:35 AM 
I attended game. Jordan gingerly walked off court. Trainer told me just severe cramps--no worries!!
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Dartis Injury
   Posted: 1/15/2020 9:06:55 AM 
greencat wrote:
Hope he's ok. Looked like he got his foot stepped on and twisted something in real time but hard to tell.

The bench combined for 0 points in 45 minutes on the floor. I won't bring up Saul's "recruiting" as that has been covered extensively before.


Yet two of Saul's recruits combined for 55 of the team's 73 points last night.
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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: Dartis Injury
   Posted: 1/15/2020 10:42:30 AM 
Old Guy wrote:
I attended game. Jordan gingerly walked off court. Trainer told me just severe cramps--no worries!!


Great news!

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Dartis Injury
   Posted: 1/15/2020 12:32:07 PM 
GoCats105 wrote:
greencat wrote:
Hope he's ok. Looked like he got his foot stepped on and twisted something in real time but hard to tell.

The bench combined for 0 points in 45 minutes on the floor. I won't bring up Saul's "recruiting" as that has been covered extensively before.


Yet two of Saul's recruits combined for 55 of the team's 73 points last night.


Not only that, but there are only 6 holdovers from the prior coaching staff's team. Three of them are top-3 in scoring, top-3 in points per game, and 3 of the top four rebounders in terms of average.

Also, the top players off the bench, most of them are Boals recruits that, at least last night, didn't get it done.

Maybe it's just me, but it could be time for a new narrative to complain about?
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Dartis Injury
   Posted: 1/15/2020 12:33:31 PM 
Old Guy wrote:
I attended game. Jordan gingerly walked off court. Trainer told me just severe cramps--no worries!!


Saw Russ tweet this last night. I'm glad to hear this. I'd like nothing more than to see Jordan break those three point shot making records, and to be able to play on his Senior Day.
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bshot44
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  Message Not Read  RE: Dartis Injury
   Posted: 1/15/2020 4:27:33 PM 
OU_Country wrote:
Old Guy wrote:
I attended game. Jordan gingerly walked off court. Trainer told me just severe cramps--no worries!!


Saw Russ tweet this last night. I'm glad to hear this. I'd like nothing more than to see Jordan break those three point shot making records, and to be able to play on his Senior Day.


As much as I'd like Dartis set that mark .... I'd also like to see him become a threat other than just a catch and shoot 3-pt guy.

This offense is in dire need of a playmaker outside of Preston. BVP has been more than holding his own the last month or so ... but he can't create his own shot.

I really, really thought Miles Brown (a guy who averaged 34+ ppg in high school) or Roderick would be better at creating their shot and could help this offense. Right now it seems to be a lot of standing around and watching Preston do something and if the ball ends up in your hands (assuming you catch it) ... then just shoot.

I know they are young and this is part of that process .... the transition into the college game (bigger, faster, stronger opponents) ... but that seems to be the most lacking thing to me right now on offense.

Dartis is simply a guy who hoists 3ptrs ... and does little else (and I'm not sure if that's injury limitations or what? He certainly has show flashes where he can get to the rim ... why that isn't happening more often is bizarre to me?)

Lunden McDay has shown flashes ... but as much as I LOVE him and his hard work ... he tends to fade into the background on offense.

Unless Ohio becomes super proficient at moving the ball around the perimeter and otherwise with quick passes that results in wide open 3pt looks for just about anybody on their roster ... their offense will continue to sputter at times.

I was super happy with the effort last night at UB ... shame they couldn't pull that one out. Would have really helped boost their confidence.
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Bobcat1998
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  Message Not Read  RE: Dartis Injury
   Posted: 1/15/2020 8:31:27 PM 
OU_Country wrote:
GoCats105 wrote:
greencat wrote:
Hope he's ok. Looked like he got his foot stepped on and twisted something in real time but hard to tell.

The bench combined for 0 points in 45 minutes on the floor. I won't bring up Saul's "recruiting" as that has been covered extensively before.


Yet two of Saul's recruits combined for 55 of the team's 73 points last night.


Not only that, but there are only 6 holdovers from the prior coaching staff's team. Three of them are top-3 in scoring, top-3 in points per game, and 3 of the top four rebounders in terms of average.

Also, the top players off the bench, most of them are Boals recruits that, at least last night, didn't get it done.

Maybe it's just me, but it could be time for a new narrative to complain about?


Or...maybe Boals taking Saul recruits and making them into All-MAC First Team guys is a new narrative. Recruiting is fine and good for Saul for finding Pres and BVP and Dartis. You still have to coach them up and Saul was not good at that.
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Dartis Injury
   Posted: 1/16/2020 12:19:17 AM 
Glad to hear that the cramp story is apparently the correct one. I guess I get an F- in remote diagnosis via webcast! ;-) I know that Darits hasn't gotten back to the form he had two years ago, but give him time. He'll do us all proud.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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Andrew Ruck
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  Message Not Read  RE: Dartis Injury
   Posted: 1/16/2020 9:05:49 AM 
bshot44 wrote:

I really, really thought Miles Brown (a guy who averaged 34+ ppg in high school) or Roderick would be better at creating their shot and could help this offense. Right now it seems to be a lot of standing around and watching Preston do something and if the ball ends up in your hands (assuming you catch it) ... then just shoot.

I know they are young and this is part of that process .... the transition into the college game (bigger, faster, stronger opponents) ... but that seems to be the most lacking thing to me right now on offense.


I definitely agree here. I was really excited for the freshman trio of Roderick, Brown & McDay (with a side of the departed Price). I am still hopeful the injuries and lack of early playing time (both game and practice) have them just a bit behind and will soon catch up. We need those guys to develop and be who we thought they would be for us to be competitive in the next couple seasons.

Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Dartis Injury
   Posted: 1/16/2020 9:14:57 AM 
Bobcat1998 wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
GoCats105 wrote:
greencat wrote:
Hope he's ok. Looked like he got his foot stepped on and twisted something in real time but hard to tell.

The bench combined for 0 points in 45 minutes on the floor. I won't bring up Saul's "recruiting" as that has been covered extensively before.


Yet two of Saul's recruits combined for 55 of the team's 73 points last night.


Not only that, but there are only 6 holdovers from the prior coaching staff's team. Three of them are top-3 in scoring, top-3 in points per game, and 3 of the top four rebounders in terms of average.

Also, the top players off the bench, most of them are Boals recruits that, at least last night, didn't get it done.

Maybe it's just me, but it could be time for a new narrative to complain about?


Or...maybe Boals taking Saul recruits and making them into All-MAC First Team guys is a new narrative. Recruiting is fine and good for Saul for finding Pres and BVP and Dartis. You still have to coach them up and Saul was not good at that.


Boals definitely seems more effective in that case, yes. Another factor worthy of consideration at the college level: Both Ben and Jason are a year older, more experienced, and stronger.

EDIT: A non-Bobcat example from Jeff Goodman on this thought:
https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1217838383990480896

"Dayton’s top 8 scorers are all in at least their third year of college. Pays to be older these days in college hoops.

5th year - Ryan Mikesell
4th year - Ibi Watson, Trey Landers, Rodney Chatman, Jordy Tshimanga
3rd year - Obi Toppin, Jalen Crutcher, Chase Johnson"

Last Edited: 1/16/2020 10:56:39 AM by OU_Country
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GoCats105
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  Message Not Read  RE: Dartis Injury
   Posted: 1/16/2020 11:11:08 AM 
Andrew Ruck wrote:
bshot44 wrote:

I really, really thought Miles Brown (a guy who averaged 34+ ppg in high school) or Roderick would be better at creating their shot and could help this offense. Right now it seems to be a lot of standing around and watching Preston do something and if the ball ends up in your hands (assuming you catch it) ... then just shoot.

I know they are young and this is part of that process .... the transition into the college game (bigger, faster, stronger opponents) ... but that seems to be the most lacking thing to me right now on offense.


I definitely agree here. I was really excited for the freshman trio of Roderick, Brown & McDay (with a side of the departed Price). I am still hopeful the injuries and lack of early playing time (both game and practice) have them just a bit behind and will soon catch up. We need those guys to develop and be who we thought they would be for us to be competitive in the next couple seasons.


I feel the worst for BRod, as Boals mentioned he was one of the best players going into the season until the injury. And then injured again after things started to click. I'm hoping he gets back to form before the end of the year, but a sophomore leap after Jordy leaves would be even better.
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CatsUp
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  Message Not Read  RE: Dartis Injury
   Posted: 1/16/2020 12:53:07 PM 
Not a comment based on much research but I will offer an anecdotal observation that there are two examples at the high major level of the importance of experience. Both Kentucky and Duke, who arguably for decades have been two of the very top blue bloods of college basketball, and have for the last few years adopted/lived with the “one and done” strategy as a major part of their respective programs, have not reached the final four since 2015. In the four years preceding the last four (2012-2015), they totaled four appearances in the final four.
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BillyTheCat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Dartis Injury
   Posted: 1/16/2020 4:04:06 PM 
CatsUp wrote:
Not a comment based on much research but I will offer an anecdotal observation that there are two examples at the high major level of the importance of experience. Both Kentucky and Duke, who arguably for decades have been two of the very top blue bloods of college basketball, and have for the last few years adopted/lived with the “one and done” strategy as a major part of their respective programs, have not reached the final four since 2015. In the four years preceding the last four (2012-2015), they totaled four appearances in the final four.


You are starting to see a similar result in Football, the blue bloods that are NFL factories (leave early) are not as successful as the programs with 4-5 year players.
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greencat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Dartis Injury
   Posted: 1/16/2020 11:32:34 PM 
CatsUp wrote:
Not a comment based on much research but I will offer an anecdotal observation that there are two examples at the high major level of the importance of experience. Both Kentucky and Duke, who arguably for decades have been two of the very top blue bloods of college basketball, and have for the last few years adopted/lived with the “one and done” strategy as a major part of their respective programs, have not reached the final four since 2015. In the four years preceding the last four (2012-2015), they totaled four appearances in the final four.


Take the UCLA situation for example. Cronin just took over and they have losses to Hofstra and CalState-Fullerton. Stanford just got their first win at Pauley Pavillion in 15 years and it wasn't close. UCLA is below .500 and sinking fast. The RPI had them (I think) around #168 in the nation (?) Do you not think he will be getting some heat to look for a quick fix? I haven't checked 247 but would bet he has a number of offers out to 5star kids and those guys mostly intend to be one and done's these days, for better or worse.

Look at Romeo Langford and Simi Shittu. They were 5 star prospects who needed to play at least one more year in college. Langford is averaging 2ppg in the NBA while shooting 22% from three. Simi is stuck in the G league after going undrafted. He averages 9ppg and 5 boards a game in the G league.

Last Edited: 1/16/2020 11:33:28 PM by greencat
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Bobcat1998
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  Message Not Read  RE: Dartis Injury
   Posted: 1/17/2020 8:37:27 AM 
OU_Country wrote:
Bobcat1998 wrote:
OU_Country wrote:
GoCats105 wrote:
greencat wrote:
Hope he's ok. Looked like he got his foot stepped on and twisted something in real time but hard to tell.

The bench combined for 0 points in 45 minutes on the floor. I won't bring up Saul's "recruiting" as that has been covered extensively before.


Yet two of Saul's recruits combined for 55 of the team's 73 points last night.


Not only that, but there are only 6 holdovers from the prior coaching staff's team. Three of them are top-3 in scoring, top-3 in points per game, and 3 of the top four rebounders in terms of average.

Also, the top players off the bench, most of them are Boals recruits that, at least last night, didn't get it done.

Maybe it's just me, but it could be time for a new narrative to complain about?


Or...maybe Boals taking Saul recruits and making them into All-MAC First Team guys is a new narrative. Recruiting is fine and good for Saul for finding Pres and BVP and Dartis. You still have to coach them up and Saul was not good at that.


Boals definitely seems more effective in that case, yes. Another factor worthy of consideration at the college level: Both Ben and Jason are a year older, more experienced, and stronger.

EDIT: A non-Bobcat example from Jeff Goodman on this thought:
https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1217838383990480896

"Dayton’s top 8 scorers are all in at least their third year of college. Pays to be older these days in college hoops.

5th year - Ryan Mikesell
4th year - Ibi Watson, Trey Landers, Rodney Chatman, Jordy Tshimanga
3rd year - Obi Toppin, Jalen Crutcher, Chase Johnson"


That's interesting. Thank you for posting the Dayton info.
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OU_Country
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  Message Not Read  RE: Dartis Injury
   Posted: 1/17/2020 9:08:28 AM 
greencat wrote:
CatsUp wrote:
Not a comment based on much research but I will offer an anecdotal observation that there are two examples at the high major level of the importance of experience. Both Kentucky and Duke, who arguably for decades have been two of the very top blue bloods of college basketball, and have for the last few years adopted/lived with the “one and done” strategy as a major part of their respective programs, have not reached the final four since 2015. In the four years preceding the last four (2012-2015), they totaled four appearances in the final four.


Take the UCLA situation for example. Cronin just took over and they have losses to Hofstra and CalState-Fullerton. Stanford just got their first win at Pauley Pavillion in 15 years and it wasn't close. UCLA is below .500 and sinking fast. The RPI had them (I think) around #168 in the nation (?) Do you not think he will be getting some heat to look for a quick fix? I haven't checked 247 but would bet he has a number of offers out to 5star kids and those guys mostly intend to be one and done's these days, for better or worse.

Look at Romeo Langford and Simi Shittu. They were 5 star prospects who needed to play at least one more year in college. Langford is averaging 2ppg in the NBA while shooting 22% from three. Simi is stuck in the G league after going undrafted. He averages 9ppg and 5 boards a game in the G league.


I wish more kids would look at examples like Langford and Shittu and stay in school longer. Simply put, many are ready to physically play in the NBA.

I also wish the NBA and NCAA would treat 18 year olds out of high school like they treat kids testing the waters. Let them come to pre-draft combines and see if they're ready. If not, then there's feedback. I also think the model that baseball follows would be great for college hoops.
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CatsUp
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  Message Not Read  RE: Dartis Injury
   Posted: 1/17/2020 9:54:49 AM 
OU_Country wrote:
greencat wrote:
CatsUp wrote:
Not a comment based on much research but I will offer an anecdotal observation that there are two examples at the high major level of the importance of experience. Both Kentucky and Duke, who arguably for decades have been two of the very top blue bloods of college basketball, and have for the last few years adopted/lived with the “one and done” strategy as a major part of their respective programs, have not reached the final four since 2015. In the four years preceding the last four (2012-2015), they totaled four appearances in the final four.


Take the UCLA situation for example. Cronin just took over and they have losses to Hofstra and CalState-Fullerton. Stanford just got their first win at Pauley Pavillion in 15 years and it wasn't close. UCLA is below .500 and sinking fast. The RPI had them (I think) around #168 in the nation (?) Do you not think he will be getting some heat to look for a quick fix? I haven't checked 247 but would bet he has a number of offers out to 5star kids and those guys mostly intend to be one and done's these days, for better or worse.

Look at Romeo Langford and Simi Shittu. They were 5 star prospects who needed to play at least one more year in college. Langford is averaging 2ppg in the NBA while shooting 22% from three. Simi is stuck in the G league after going undrafted. He averages 9ppg and 5 boards a game in the G league.


I wish more kids would look at examples like Langford and Shittu and stay in school longer. Simply put, many are ready to physically play in the NBA.

I also wish the NBA and NCAA would treat 18 year olds out of high school like they treat kids testing the waters. Let them come to pre-draft combines and see if they're ready. If not, then there's feedback. I also think the model that baseball follows would be great for college hoops.


I don’t think it will happen because elite players bring additional prestige to their programs but I wonder if Coach K, Cal, and some others would not be ahead, from a winning and post-season standpoint, to concentrate on recruiting players more in the national ratings (or perceived ability) of 10-75. They could dominate acquiring players within this group. They would probably get at least 2-3 years out of those guys so their investment of time and effort in them would likely be better rewarded in wins and losses and post-season play. Let the Illinois and NC State’s of the world have the top guys in their effort to catch “lightning in a bottle”. It’s not a disservice to the elite players as they are still going up against the best in their one year but the elite programs might benefit from playing with very good but well seasoned players.
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OhioCatFan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Dartis Injury
   Posted: 1/17/2020 10:49:07 AM 
I'm just surprised that Duke with its fine academic reputation, gets into the one-and-one business. You'd think that upper administration would simply not allow it. Do they really want to be perceived as just another Kentucky or Memphis? Yes, athletics is the "front porch" of the university, and Duke's front porch is getting a bit dirty. To quote last year's Rice Report commissioned by the NCAA, the one-and-done phenomenon has had “a significant role in corrupting and destabilizing college basketball, restricting the freedom of choice of players, and undermining the relationship of college basketball to the mission of higher education.”

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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CatsUp
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  Message Not Read  RE: Dartis Injury
   Posted: 1/17/2020 11:02:17 AM 
I agree OCF. In fact, I hesitated using “additional prestige to their programs “. Depends on how it’s defined.
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cc-cat
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  Message Not Read  RE: Dartis Injury
   Posted: 1/17/2020 12:02:26 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
I'm just surprised that Duke with its fine academic reputation, gets into the one-and-done business. You'd think that upper administration would simply not allow it. Do they really want to be perceived as just another Kentucky or Memphis?


Coach Ks reputation assures they will never be perceived as just another Kentucky or Memphis. The administration has complete faith in him and will do as he says. There is limited angst amongst admin, alumni, or anyone else at Duke towards the program and that will not change as long as K is in charge. Do you honestly think that administration was sitting wringing their hands last year when Zion was the face of the team?
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