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Topic:  More National Recognition

Topic:  More National Recognition
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bshot44
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  Message Not Read  More National Recognition
   Posted: 11/13/2017 1:16:50 PM 
Nice little write up in The Athletic today leading to their 130 rankings.

Not a lot of subsistence... your typical "Nebraska sucks...Frank has found home at Ohio...long tenured staff...blah,blah,blah"

BUT ...

good to see a high level national outlet recognize Ohio ... even if they didn't mention anything they haven't said on every Ohio TV broadcast in last decade

BTW... they rank Ohio #43

Full article for those without subscription (I recommend subscription...some great writing overall....even though they used a pic of Quinton Maxwell for the article. Baby steps, I guess...baby steps)

In the same week Nebraska gave up 54 points to Minnesota, Frank Solich and the Ohio Bobcats beat Toledo to reach eight wins for the third consecutive year and eighth time in Athens. After that effort, the Bobcats are the biggest risers in this week’s All-American 130.

Ohio outscored a then-one-loss Toledo team 14-3 in the third quarter, and for the season the Bobcats have outscored opponents 116-36 in third quarters.

With the Huskers likely to make another coaching change, take some time to appreciate what Solich has accomplished in the Mid-American Conference, where consistency is incredibly hard to come by. From 1969-2004, before Solich arrived, the Bobcats had won as many as eight games once.

“It goes back to having really good players,” Solich said Friday. “We have our share of really good players. You have to be exceptional and keep yourself on the field to set records.”

Solich played at Nebraska in the 1960s and was an assistant there from 1979-97. He was tasked with following Tom Osborne and won at least 10 games three times in his first four seasons, with a Big 12 title and a national championship game berth. But the Cornhuskers struggled on the road, and Solich was fired after a 9-3 season in 2003.

For some schools, winning isn’t enough. The winning has to be big. At Ohio, Solich has found his home.

His staff includes some of the longest-tenured assistants in the FBS, and he puts a lot of the program’s success on them as well.

“We’ve got experienced coaches, they’re bright guys,” Solich said. “They do a great job. They’ve seen a lot of football over their time, and they’re able to make adjustments when things surprise you a little bit in the first half. Some of it is our coaches and how they make adjustments. I think the fact that we have very good players also helps.”

A win against Akron on Tuesday would give the Bobcats their fifth division title under Solich, but a MAC title has still eluded them.

Last Edited: 11/13/2017 1:23:58 PM by bshot44
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Sam bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: More National Recognition
   Posted: 11/13/2017 4:42:34 PM 
bshot44 wrote:
Nice little write up in The Athletic today leading to their 130 rankings.

Not a lot of subsistence... your typical "Nebraska sucks...Frank has found home at Ohio...long tenured staff...blah,blah,blah"

BUT ...

good to see a high level national outlet recognize Ohio ... even if they didn't mention anything they haven't said on every Ohio TV broadcast in last decade

BTW... they rank Ohio #43

Full article for those without subscription (I recommend subscription...some great writing overall....even though they used a pic of Quinton Maxwell for the article. Baby steps, I guess...baby steps)

In the same week Nebraska gave up 54 points to Minnesota, Frank Solich and the Ohio Bobcats beat Toledo to reach eight wins for the third consecutive year and eighth time in Athens. After that effort, the Bobcats are the biggest risers in this week’s All-American 130.

Ohio outscored a then-one-loss Toledo team 14-3 in the third quarter, and for the season the Bobcats have outscored opponents 116-36 in third quarters.

With the Huskers likely to make another coaching change, take some time to appreciate what Solich has accomplished in the Mid-American Conference, where consistency is incredibly hard to come by. From 1969-2004, before Solich arrived, the Bobcats had won as many as eight games once.

“It goes back to having really good players,” Solich said Friday. “We have our share of really good players. You have to be exceptional and keep yourself on the field to set records.”

Solich played at Nebraska in the 1960s and was an assistant there from 1979-97. He was tasked with following Tom Osborne and won at least 10 games three times in his first four seasons, with a Big 12 title and a national championship game berth. But the Cornhuskers struggled on the road, and Solich was fired after a 9-3 season in 2003.

For some schools, winning isn’t enough. The winning has to be big. At Ohio, Solich has found his home.

His staff includes some of the longest-tenured assistants in the FBS, and he puts a lot of the program’s success on them as well.

“We’ve got experienced coaches, they’re bright guys,” Solich said. “They do a great job. They’ve seen a lot of football over their time, and they’re able to make adjustments when things surprise you a little bit in the first half. Some of it is our coaches and how they make adjustments. I think the fact that we have very good players also helps.”

A win against Akron on Tuesday would give the Bobcats their fifth division title under Solich, but a MAC title has still eluded them.


Thank you for posting the article. (I don't have subscription)
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: More National Recognition
   Posted: 11/13/2017 6:14:53 PM 
I believe that it is against board rules to quote entire articles which are protected by copyright. Excerpting choice sections would be ok, as would providing links to the original source.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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ou79
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  Message Not Read  RE: More National Recognition
   Posted: 11/13/2017 7:27:53 PM 
Not sure this fits here but it does deal with "National Recognition". Tomorrow night's game is the third straight week we will have been on National TV via ESPN2. Also, this Thursday the MBB team will be on National TV when they play Clemson at 5:00 pm. All of these games have to be worth something to the University. Who would have thought a few years ago that we would be featured 4 times in 3 weeks on National TV? Go Bobcats!
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bshot44
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  Message Not Read  RE: More National Recognition
   Posted: 11/14/2017 8:01:08 AM 
L.C. wrote:
I believe that it is against board rules to quote entire articles which are protected by copyright. Excerpting choice sections would be ok, as would providing links to the original source.



It was an excerpt. Entire article is much longer and about much more than Ohio. It ranks all 130 teams.

But thanks for the callout ethics police
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bshot44
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  Message Not Read  RE: More National Recognition
   Posted: 11/14/2017 8:02:16 AM 
ou79 wrote:
Not sure this fits here but it does deal with "National Recognition". Tomorrow night's game is the third straight week we will have been on National TV via ESPN2. Also, this Thursday the MBB team will be on National TV when they play Clemson at 5:00 pm. All of these games have to be worth something to the University. Who would have thought a few years ago that we would be featured 4 times in 3 weeks on National TV? Go Bobcats!


Happens more than you'd think with TV deal for football this time of year
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Andrew Ruck
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  Message Not Read  RE: More National Recognition
   Posted: 11/14/2017 8:18:34 AM 
bshot44 wrote:
... your typical "Nebraska sucks...Frank has found home at Ohio...long tenured staff...blah,blah,blah"


This is so true, the narrative is so predictable and repetitive. I get it from their perspective, but it still annoys me.

Andrew Ruck
B.B.A. 2003

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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: More National Recognition
   Posted: 11/14/2017 9:01:14 AM 
Andrew Ruck wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
... your typical "Nebraska sucks...Frank has found home at Ohio...long tenured staff...blah,blah,blah"


This is so true, the narrative is so predictable and repetitive. I get it from their perspective, but it still annoys me.

There is one piece of this narrative that people here may be unaware of. In his over twenty years at Nebraska, Tom Osborne had virtually no turnover in his coaching staff. The longer he coached, the better his success. He always attributed the continuing improvement to the fact that he had so little staff turnover, and his reason was that each year the staff learned more, about how their part of the system integrated into the whole, about the rest of the staff, and about what the others on the staff expected, and that all of the above enabled them to work together as a team more productively.

I'm not saying this to establish the truth or falsity of the claim that a staff that remains together will continue to improve. I'm just saying that it is a part of the narrative that I'm not sure everyone here is aware of. I think that the reason that the narrative continues to be stated is partially because it is a tie back to the the status of the Nebraska program in the 80s and 90s, and the reasons Tom Osborne always gave for why they were so successful and consistent from year to year.

Last Edited: 11/14/2017 9:03:25 AM by L.C.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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bshot44
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  Message Not Read  RE: More National Recognition
   Posted: 11/14/2017 1:10:00 PM 
L.C. wrote:
Andrew Ruck wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
... your typical "Nebraska sucks...Frank has found home at Ohio...long tenured staff...blah,blah,blah"


This is so true, the narrative is so predictable and repetitive. I get it from their perspective, but it still annoys me.

There is one piece of this narrative that people here may be unaware of. In his over twenty years at Nebraska, Tom Osborne had virtually no turnover in his coaching staff. The longer he coached, the better his success. He always attributed the continuing improvement to the fact that he had so little staff turnover, and his reason was that each year the staff learned more, about how their part of the system integrated into the whole, about the rest of the staff, and about what the others on the staff expected, and that all of the above enabled them to work together as a team more productively.

I'm not saying this to establish the truth or falsity of the claim that a staff that remains together will continue to improve. I'm just saying that it is a part of the narrative that I'm not sure everyone here is aware of. I think that the reason that the narrative continues to be stated is partially because it is a tie back to the the status of the Nebraska program in the 80s and 90s, and the reasons Tom Osborne always gave for why they were so successful and consistent from year to year.


This comparison to me is almost apples to oranges ...

CFB in the 80s and 90s is a much, much, much different game than it is now.

Not to mention Nebraska and Ohio are much, much, much different programs recruiting much different players and playing much different schedules in much different leagues.

(Now that I've typed it a thousand times ... I hate the words "much different" together, ha!)

Anyhow ... I don't think stability is a bad thing ... but I think staleness is. It would be different if what Frank & Co. are doing is running roughshod over the MAC and Ohio is piling up MAC titles like Nebraska did during the Osbourne era in the Big 8.

Osbourne won 12 Big 8 titles in 23 years in the Big 8 and then two Big XII North Division titles (1-1 in the Big XII title game) in his only two years in that league ... AND 8 2nd place finishes during the Big 8 days.

Oh ... and 3 national titles in the last 4 years.

I know you are aware of all of this ...

But my point is, there was no reason to change anything! It was working at a very high rate ... Nebraska was the gold standard in CFB during the Osbourne era.

Would you say Solich is the gold standard in CFB or even in the MAC during his era? 0 MACC in 12 years ... 4 division titles?

It's been a good run for Ohio during that time especially considering where they were before.

But they've had to adapt ... and they've done it a little slower than some programs. Albin's offenses have sputtered for long stretches during those years ... You don't think they couldn't have benefited from a fresh voice at some point during those 12 years?

I know things are humming now ... so it's easy to forget about the scuffling.

But I think it's a little far-fetched to compare Nebraska and Ohio's coaching staffs for a variety of reasons.

Nebraska's success during the Osbourne era in the league and nationwide called for ZERO change.

Ohio has not experienced anywhere near the dominance Nebraska exhibited ... even on a MAC level.

To me, it's no comparison other than the base fact that both the coaching staffs experienced little change ... but the comparison ends there.
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Sam bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: More National Recognition
   Posted: 11/14/2017 1:43:02 PM 
bshot44 wrote:
L.C. wrote:
Andrew Ruck wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
... your typical "Nebraska sucks...Frank has found home at Ohio...long tenured staff...blah,blah,blah"


This is so true, the narrative is so predictable and repetitive. I get it from their perspective, but it still annoys me.

There is one piece of this narrative that people here may be unaware of. In his over twenty years at Nebraska, Tom Osborne had virtually no turnover in his coaching staff. The longer he coached, the better his success. He always attributed the continuing improvement to the fact that he had so little staff turnover, and his reason was that each year the staff learned more, about how their part of the system integrated into the whole, about the rest of the staff, and about what the others on the staff expected, and that all of the above enabled them to work together as a team more productively.

I'm not saying this to establish the truth or falsity of the claim that a staff that remains together will continue to improve. I'm just saying that it is a part of the narrative that I'm not sure everyone here is aware of. I think that the reason that the narrative continues to be stated is partially because it is a tie back to the the status of the Nebraska program in the 80s and 90s, and the reasons Tom Osborne always gave for why they were so successful and consistent from year to year.


This comparison to me is almost apples to oranges ...

CFB in the 80s and 90s is a much, much, much different game than it is now.

Not to mention Nebraska and Ohio are much, much, much different programs recruiting much different players and playing much different schedules in much different leagues.

(Now that I've typed it a thousand times ... I hate the words "much different" together, ha!)

Anyhow ... I don't think stability is a bad thing ... but I think staleness is. It would be different if what Frank & Co. are doing is running roughshod over the MAC and Ohio is piling up MAC titles like Nebraska did during the Osbourne era in the Big 8.

Osbourne won 12 Big 8 titles in 23 years in the Big 8 and then two Big XII North Division titles (1-1 in the Big XII title game) in his only two years in that league ... AND 8 2nd place finishes during the Big 8 days.

Oh ... and 3 national titles in the last 4 years.

I know you are aware of all of this ...

But my point is, there was no reason to change anything! It was working at a very high rate ... Nebraska was the gold standard in CFB during the Osbourne era.

Would you say Solich is the gold standard in CFB or even in the MAC during his era? 0 MACC in 12 years ... 4 division titles?

It's been a good run for Ohio during that time especially considering where they were before.

But they've had to adapt ... and they've done it a little slower than some programs. Albin's offenses have sputtered for long stretches during those years ... You don't think they couldn't have benefited from a fresh voice at some point during those 12 years?

I know things are humming now ... so it's easy to forget about the scuffling.

But I think it's a little far-fetched to compare Nebraska and Ohio's coaching staffs for a variety of reasons.

Nebraska's success during the Osbourne era in the league and nationwide called for ZERO change.

Ohio has not experienced anywhere near the dominance Nebraska exhibited ... even on a MAC level.

To me, it's no comparison other than the base fact that both the coaching staffs experienced little change ... but the comparison ends there.


LOL we're "stale" are we? I disagree.
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: More National Recognition
   Posted: 11/14/2017 1:43:24 PM 
bshot44 wrote:
...Osbourne won 12 Big 8 titles in 23 years in the Big 8 and then two Big XII North Division titles (1-1 in the Big XII title game) in his only two years in that league ... AND 8 2nd place finishes during the Big 8 days.

Oh ... and 3 national titles in the last 4 years.

I know you are aware of all of this ...

But my point is, there was no reason to change anything! It was working at a very high rate ... Nebraska was the gold standard in CFB during the Osbourne era.
..

Actually, Osborne, while pretty good, was not the "gold standard" during his first eight years as a coach. In fact, there were a large number of people who wanted him fired during he 1970s. In particular, he consistently lost to Oklahoma, which prevented him from winning a conference championship, though he shared one in 1975 and 1978. He did beat Oklahoma in 1978, but as a treat, got a re-match in the Orange Bowl, which he lost.

Osborne consistently maintained that the reason that they kept improving was that he was able to keep his staff together. Perhaps the longevity of the staff had nothing to do with the improvement. Perhaps it was really something else. Perhaps it was that Osborne himself became wiser as time went by. Perhaps they recruited better. Perhaps it was that they had two exceptional quarterbacks, in Gill and Frazier.

I'm not trying to claim that Osborne's assertion was correct. I'm only trying to point out that it was a point he made frequently, and that, as a result, that's why the media picks up on it, and points it out. Like it or not, and regardless of whether you think it's s good thing or not, you can expect that the press will continue to mention it. The only reason I even brought it up was that I doubted that most people reading this board knew the reason why some people think it might be important.

Last Edited: 11/14/2017 1:51:57 PM by L.C.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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bshot44
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  Message Not Read  RE: More National Recognition
   Posted: 11/14/2017 2:09:08 PM 
L.C. wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
...Osbourne won 12 Big 8 titles in 23 years in the Big 8 and then two Big XII North Division titles (1-1 in the Big XII title game) in his only two years in that league ... AND 8 2nd place finishes during the Big 8 days.

Oh ... and 3 national titles in the last 4 years.

I know you are aware of all of this ...

But my point is, there was no reason to change anything! It was working at a very high rate ... Nebraska was the gold standard in CFB during the Osbourne era.
..

Actually, Osborne, while pretty good, was not the "gold standard" during his first eight years as a coach. In fact, there were a large number of people who wanted him fired during he 1970s. In particular, he consistently lost to Oklahoma, which prevented him from winning a conference championship, though he shared one in 1975 and 1978. He did beat Oklahoma in 1978, but as a treat, got a re-match in the Orange Bowl, which he lost.

Osborne consistently maintained that the reason that they kept improving was that he was able to keep his staff together. Perhaps the longevity of the staff had nothing to do with the improvement. Perhaps it was really something else. Perhaps it was that Osborne himself became wiser as time went by. Perhaps they recruited better. Perhaps it was that they had two exceptional quarterbacks, in Gill and Frazier.

I'm not trying to claim that Osborne's assertion was correct. I'm only trying to point out that it was a point he made frequently, and that, as a result, that's why the media picks up on it, and points it out. Like it or not, and regardless of whether you think it's s good thing or not, you can expect that the press will continue to mention it. The only reason I even brought it up was that I doubted that most people reading this board knew the reason why some people think it might be important.


I see what you're getting at ... I just disagree a little.

I think you're giving the national media WAAAAY too much credit for brains.

Chris Vannini, who wrote the article, graduated in 2011 from college. He is not even 30 years old.

I don't think he knows what Tom Osbourne preached while coaching at Nebraska...or even after his coaching career.

Andrew Ruck wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
... your typical "Nebraska sucks...Frank has found home at Ohio...long tenured staff...blah,blah,blah"


This is so true, the narrative is so predictable and repetitive. I get it from their perspective, but it still annoys me.


This is why he wrote what he wrote. Because every time you see Ohio on TV, they go on and on about how Ohio has one of the longest tenured coaching staffs in the country.

And because Frank coached at Nebraska ... and most announcers on ESPN do little to no leg work for MAC broadcasts outside of reading the game notes provided by the schools ... it's an easy crutch for them to regurgitate that info during the broadcast. They know about Nebraska because anyone with a pulse around the CFB world remembers Nebraska used to be an elite program .... Frank was tied to that program for a long time ... so therefore, it's easy to talk about that.

Why do you think Vannini at no point in his article mentions one Ohio player? That would require a little legwork to actually study up on them. It's easy to write the Solich/Nebraska/long-tenured coaching staff article ... just like it is to talk about during a game .... which is what most people hear, so that is easy to associate Ohio to Nebraska.

Hell .... the article even used a photo of Quinton Maxwell from last season! You'd think a mention of Nathan Rourke might be warranted?

The press mention Solich/Osbourne references because they're easy ... not because they've done the work.

Again ... I'm all for Ohio getting publicized for success on national platforms like "The Athletic" and for getting some exposure with these midweek games (which I still HATE). Every little bit helps with elevating this program.

But these writers and broadcasters don't dive into Ohio football like you and I .... so to assume they went back into the Osbourne archives and attributed quotes of him talking about tenured coaching staffs and then aligned them with Solich .... I think that's fool's gold.

Last Edited: 11/14/2017 2:13:31 PM by bshot44
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bshot44
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  Message Not Read  RE: More National Recognition
   Posted: 11/14/2017 2:16:02 PM 
Sam bobcat wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
L.C. wrote:
Andrew Ruck wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
... your typical "Nebraska sucks...Frank has found home at Ohio...long tenured staff...blah,blah,blah"


This is so true, the narrative is so predictable and repetitive. I get it from their perspective, but it still annoys me.

There is one piece of this narrative that people here may be unaware of. In his over twenty years at Nebraska, Tom Osborne had virtually no turnover in his coaching staff. The longer he coached, the better his success. He always attributed the continuing improvement to the fact that he had so little staff turnover, and his reason was that each year the staff learned more, about how their part of the system integrated into the whole, about the rest of the staff, and about what the others on the staff expected, and that all of the above enabled them to work together as a team more productively.

I'm not saying this to establish the truth or falsity of the claim that a staff that remains together will continue to improve. I'm just saying that it is a part of the narrative that I'm not sure everyone here is aware of. I think that the reason that the narrative continues to be stated is partially because it is a tie back to the the status of the Nebraska program in the 80s and 90s, and the reasons Tom Osborne always gave for why they were so successful and consistent from year to year.


This comparison to me is almost apples to oranges ...

CFB in the 80s and 90s is a much, much, much different game than it is now.

Not to mention Nebraska and Ohio are much, much, much different programs recruiting much different players and playing much different schedules in much different leagues.

(Now that I've typed it a thousand times ... I hate the words "much different" together, ha!)

Anyhow ... I don't think stability is a bad thing ... but I think staleness is. It would be different if what Frank & Co. are doing is running roughshod over the MAC and Ohio is piling up MAC titles like Nebraska did during the Osbourne era in the Big 8.

Osbourne won 12 Big 8 titles in 23 years in the Big 8 and then two Big XII North Division titles (1-1 in the Big XII title game) in his only two years in that league ... AND 8 2nd place finishes during the Big 8 days.

Oh ... and 3 national titles in the last 4 years.

I know you are aware of all of this ...

But my point is, there was no reason to change anything! It was working at a very high rate ... Nebraska was the gold standard in CFB during the Osbourne era.

Would you say Solich is the gold standard in CFB or even in the MAC during his era? 0 MACC in 12 years ... 4 division titles?

It's been a good run for Ohio during that time especially considering where they were before.

But they've had to adapt ... and they've done it a little slower than some programs. Albin's offenses have sputtered for long stretches during those years ... You don't think they couldn't have benefited from a fresh voice at some point during those 12 years?

I know things are humming now ... so it's easy to forget about the scuffling.

But I think it's a little far-fetched to compare Nebraska and Ohio's coaching staffs for a variety of reasons.

Nebraska's success during the Osbourne era in the league and nationwide called for ZERO change.

Ohio has not experienced anywhere near the dominance Nebraska exhibited ... even on a MAC level.

To me, it's no comparison other than the base fact that both the coaching staffs experienced little change ... but the comparison ends there.


LOL we're "stale" are we? I disagree.


Dude ...

bshot44 wrote:

I know things are humming now ... so it's easy to forget about the scuffling.


I think that is pretty self-explanatory.

That is offense was dreadful as recent as last year in spots.

Things were not ... in any way, shape, or form ... humming like this between Tettleton's departure and Rourke's emergence.

So yes ... I think stale is a pretty good way to describe the offense for a pretty good period of time between 2012 and 2017
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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: More National Recognition
   Posted: 11/14/2017 3:04:10 PM 
bshot44 wrote:
I see what you're getting at ... I just disagree a little.

I think you're giving the national media WAAAAY too much credit for brains.
...

Now that is quite possible, lol.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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Sam bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: More National Recognition
   Posted: 11/14/2017 3:12:40 PM 
bshot44 wrote:

Dude ...

[QUOTE=bshot44]
I know things are humming now ... so it's easy to forget about the scuffling.


It's impossible to forget about the scuffling. You remind us daily...
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bshot44
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  Message Not Read  RE: More National Recognition
   Posted: 11/14/2017 3:24:20 PM 
Sam bobcat wrote:
bshot44 wrote:

Dude ...

[QUOTE=bshot44]
I know things are humming now ... so it's easy to forget about the scuffling.


It's impossible to forget about the scuffling. You remind us daily...


I could say the same about some folks over the top cheerleading ;-)
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Sam bobcat
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  Message Not Read  RE: More National Recognition
   Posted: 11/14/2017 4:07:46 PM 
bshot44 wrote:
Sam bobcat wrote:
bshot44 wrote:

Dude ...

[QUOTE=bshot44]
I know things are humming now ... so it's easy to forget about the scuffling.


It's impossible to forget about the scuffling. You remind us daily...


I could say the same about some folks over the top cheerleading ;-)


How have I been over the top? By saying we were getting national attention two days before you decided we were getting national attention? Whoa! Hold me back!lol






Last Edited: 11/14/2017 4:08:39 PM by Sam bobcat
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bshot44
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  Message Not Read  RE: More National Recognition
   Posted: 11/14/2017 6:46:13 PM 
Sam bobcat wrote:
bshot44 wrote:
Sam bobcat wrote:
bshot44 wrote:

Dude ...

[QUOTE=bshot44]
I know things are humming now ... so it's easy to forget about the scuffling.


It's impossible to forget about the scuffling. You remind us daily...


I could say the same about some folks over the top cheerleading ;-)


How have I been over the top? By saying we were getting national attention two days before you decided we were getting national attention? Whoa! Hold me back!lol



Never said you pal.

And yes ... when you said they were getting national attention, I hadn't seen it! I was naturally curious if I missed something.

It's like someone in 2006 saying the US has had a black president ... and because in 2008 it happened, they were right all along.

Why do you continue to pick this scab. Let it go. We're on the same team here.



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