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Topic:  Under Center

Topic:  Under Center
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A-townBound
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  Message Not Read  Under Center
   Posted: 4/17/2017 3:52:15 PM 
This should make a few happy -
http://www.thepostathens.com/article/2017/04/ohio-bobcats...



Bleed Green and GO OHIO!!
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Kevin Finnegan
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  Message Not Read  RE: Under Center
   Posted: 4/17/2017 4:53:52 PM 
I've never been anti-Tim Albin, but there is something rather concerning in a quote that basically says, we studied film and saw that other teams go under center. Over and over, the mantra has been that these coaches have forgotten more than we could ever know about the game, but a quote like that sounds pretty concerning. It took studying film to see that other teams do this? Did this seem like a novel idea, using both shotgun and going under center?
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OhioCatFan
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Location: Athens, OH
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  Message Not Read  RE: Under Center
   Posted: 4/17/2017 5:43:42 PM 
finnOhio wrote:
I've never been anti-Tim Albin, but there is something rather concerning in a quote that basically says, we studied film and saw that other teams go under center. Over and over, the mantra has been that these coaches have forgotten more than we could ever know about the game, but a quote like that sounds pretty concerning. It took studying film to see that other teams do this? Did this seem like a novel idea, using both shotgun and going under center?


In my observations, most teams that run some version of the shotgun do not go under center for short yardage situations. There are some, but they are in the minority. I think that's what he meant. That on film he saw several teams that used this successfully. My impression is that Albin didn't make this decision. I think Frank did, and Albin just had to come up with the rationale. In one of Frank's recent statements he kind of made clear that this is what he wanted to do. He did not do his usual deference. He did not use the "royal we," as he often does -- spreading the credit or blame to the whole coaching staff. He used the "Imperial I." [Sarcasm on/] Maybe that's a hint we'll run the I formation. [/Sarcasm off]

Last Edited: 4/17/2017 5:47:39 PM by OhioCatFan

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

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L.C.
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  Message Not Read  RE: Under Center
   Posted: 4/17/2017 5:57:55 PM 
It's possible that the fact that Ohio will have a true Fullback next year in Shallman had something to do with this.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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C Money
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Member Since: 8/28/2010
Post Count: 3,420

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  Message Not Read  RE: Under Center
   Posted: 4/17/2017 6:49:51 PM 
L.C. wrote:
It's possible that the fact that Ohio will have a true Fullback next year in Shallman had something to do with this.


Arkley tweeted over the weekend that Shallman will be a DE at Ohio. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but I'm an idiot so maybe it will work.
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Bcat2
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  Message Not Read  RE: Under Center
   Posted: 4/17/2017 7:53:36 PM 
Did anyone else read they were practicing Aloese as a short yardage back?

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

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allen
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Member Since: 1/24/2006
Post Count: 4,635

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  Message Not Read  RE: Under Center
   Posted: 4/17/2017 7:56:40 PM 
C Money wrote:
L.C. wrote:
It's possible that the fact that Ohio will have a true Fullback next year in Shallman had something to do with this.


Arkley tweeted over the weekend that Shallman will be a DE at Ohio. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but I'm an idiot so maybe it will work.


He will be very fast coming around that end. This may be the qickest way for him to see the field.

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes
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allen
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Member Since: 1/24/2006
Post Count: 4,635

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Under Center
   Posted: 4/17/2017 7:58:14 PM 
finnOhio wrote:
I've never been anti-Tim Albin, but there is something rather concerning in a quote that basically says, we studied film and saw that other teams go under center. Over and over, the mantra has been that these coaches have forgotten more than we could ever know about the game, but a quote like that sounds pretty concerning. It took studying film to see that other teams do this? Did this seem like a novel idea, using both shotgun and going under center?


Lol

Nobody despises to lose more than I do. That's got me into trouble over the years, but it also made a man of mediocre ability into a pretty good coach. Woody Hayes
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OhioCatFan
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Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 14,383

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  Message Not Read  RE: Under Center
   Posted: 4/17/2017 8:23:36 PM 
C Money wrote:
L.C. wrote:
It's possible that the fact that Ohio will have a true Fullback next year in Shallman had something to do with this.


Arkley tweeted over the weekend that Shallman will be a DE at Ohio. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but I'm an idiot so maybe it will work.


Could be true . . . could be misdirection . . . Frank's been known to be able to speak a lot and not say much if he doesn't want to reveal his plans.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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ytownbobcat
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Member Since: 8/7/2006
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  Message Not Read  RE: Under Center
   Posted: 4/17/2017 8:25:19 PM 
It seems like a direct snap under center could have been added at any point over the last few years. With our OL being just average the last few years it could have made a difference in many games on 3rd and 1 or 4th and 1.
We pride ourselves on being physical but when we couldn't convert short yardage situations it was a momentum killer.
What is apparent to many fans, took a long time to register with this staff. Most puzzling because we pride ourselves by moving the ball on the ground. This staff could coach direct handoff and pound the ball on the ground in their sleep. What took so long?????
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OhioCatFan
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 14,383

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Under Center
   Posted: 4/17/2017 8:32:57 PM 
ytownbobcat wrote:
It seems like a direct snap under center could have been added at any point over the last few years. With our OL being just average the last few years it could have made a difference in many games on 3rd and 1 or 4th and 1.
We pride ourselves on being physical but when we couldn't convert short yardage situations it was a momentum killer.
What is apparent to many fans, took a long time to register with this staff. Most puzzling because we pride ourselves by moving the ball on the ground. This staff could coach direct handoff and pound the ball on the ground in their sleep. What took so long?????


They were waiting for Monroe to reach the 100 post limit on this subject.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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C Money
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Member Since: 8/28/2010
Post Count: 3,420

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Under Center
   Posted: 4/17/2017 8:34:19 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
C Money wrote:
L.C. wrote:
It's possible that the fact that Ohio will have a true Fullback next year in Shallman had something to do with this.


Arkley tweeted over the weekend that Shallman will be a DE at Ohio. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but I'm an idiot so maybe it will work.


Could be true . . . could be misdirection . . . Frank's been known to be able to speak a lot and not say much if he doesn't want to reveal his plans.



Hmmmm....then maaaaaaaybe Shallman is the 6th quarterback, but he's a quarterback in the single-wing sense, which is to say, a blocking back....

I think we just solved the mystery transfer mystery!
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L.C.
General User

Member Since: 8/31/2005
Location: United States
Post Count: 10,470

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Under Center
   Posted: 4/17/2017 11:09:22 PM 
It will be interesting to see how effectively they can make this work. I understand it was extremely ineffective in the first attempt to use it, and the primary result was 3 lost fumbles on center-QB exchanges. Thankfully they did this experiment in the Spring, and didn't try to just stick it in a game.

C Money wrote:
Arkley tweeted over the weekend that Shallman will be a DE at Ohio. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but I'm an idiot so maybe it will work.

I stopped reading his tweets as, between Ohio State stuff, high school stuff, politics, and other sports, I found few if any tweets about Spring practice at Ohio.

Last Edited: 4/17/2017 11:12:55 PM by L.C.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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Monroe Slavin
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Oxnard, CA
Post Count: 9,121

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Under Center
   Posted: 4/17/2017 11:51:38 PM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
ytownbobcat wrote:
It seems like a direct snap under center could have been added at any point over the last few years. With our OL being just average the last few years it could have made a difference in many games on 3rd and 1 or 4th and 1.
We pride ourselves on being physical but when we couldn't convert short yardage situations it was a momentum killer.
What is apparent to many fans, took a long time to register with this staff. Most puzzling because we pride ourselves by moving the ball on the ground. This staff could coach direct handoff and pound the ball on the ground in their sleep. What took so long?????


They were waiting for Monroe to reach the 100 post limit on this subject.




I find this 'new' development more annoying than happy-making. What took so stinking long for the coaches to figure this out? Horrible.


I especially like the "There’s some advantages to being under center, especially with the running game" that some of us have been preaching for years.

Sorry. But what this says to me more than anything is "Welcome to a 13th year for this staff of no MACC because the coaching is not sufficient."


Where's the band?!
WHERE"S THE BAND?!


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Bcat2
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Member Since: 7/6/2010
Post Count: 4,295

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Under Center
   Posted: 4/18/2017 9:21:32 AM 
L.C. wrote:

C Money wrote:
Arkley tweeted over the weekend that Shallman will be a DE at Ohio. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but I'm an idiot so maybe it will work.

I stopped reading his tweets as, between Ohio State stuff, high school stuff, politics, and other sports, I found few if any tweets about Spring practice at Ohio.


+1

"Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men." JFK

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Mark Lembright '85
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Member Since: 8/22/2010
Location: Highland Heights, OH
Post Count: 2,460

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Under Center
   Posted: 4/18/2017 9:30:53 AM 
Monroe Slavin wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
ytownbobcat wrote:
It seems like a direct snap under center could have been added at any point over the last few years. With our OL being just average the last few years it could have made a difference in many games on 3rd and 1 or 4th and 1.
We pride ourselves on being physical but when we couldn't convert short yardage situations it was a momentum killer.
What is apparent to many fans, took a long time to register with this staff. Most puzzling because we pride ourselves by moving the ball on the ground. This staff could coach direct handoff and pound the ball on the ground in their sleep. What took so long?????


They were waiting for Monroe to reach the 100 post limit on this subject.




I find this 'new' development more annoying than happy-making. What took so stinking long for the coaches to figure this out? Horrible.


I especially like the "There’s some advantages to being under center, especially with the running game" that some of us have been preaching for years.

Sorry. But what this says to me more than anything is "Welcome to a 13th year for this staff of no MACC because the coaching is not sufficient."




To be fair, at least among the P5 programs QBs taking direct snaps is rather rare. The biggest knock against Deshaun Watson and Patrick Mahomes of Texas Tech is that they're pure shotgun QBs who rarely if ever took direct snaps; the NFL is not certain is to how their skillset will translate to the NFL. And these are potential top 15 draft picks we're talking about.

Last Edited: 4/18/2017 9:31:39 AM by Mark Lembright '85
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UpSan Bobcat
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Member Since: 8/30/2005
Location: Upper Sandusky, OH
Post Count: 3,800

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Under Center
   Posted: 4/18/2017 10:37:15 AM 
OhioCatFan wrote:
finnOhio wrote:
I've never been anti-Tim Albin, but there is something rather concerning in a quote that basically says, we studied film and saw that other teams go under center. Over and over, the mantra has been that these coaches have forgotten more than we could ever know about the game, but a quote like that sounds pretty concerning. It took studying film to see that other teams do this? Did this seem like a novel idea, using both shotgun and going under center?


In my observations, most teams that run some version of the shotgun do not go under center for short yardage situations. There are some, but they are in the minority. I think that's what he meant. That on film he saw several teams that used this successfully. My impression is that Albin didn't make this decision. I think Frank did, and Albin just had to come up with the rationale. In one of Frank's recent statements he kind of made clear that this is what he wanted to do. He did not do his usual deference. He did not use the "royal we," as he often does -- spreading the credit or blame to the whole coaching staff. He used the "Imperial I." [Sarcasm on/] Maybe that's a hint we'll run the I formation. [/Sarcasm off]


I agree. As much as this board liked to bash Ohio for never going under center, the majority of shotgun teams are the same way. They make no exceptions.
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Pataskala
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  Message Not Read  RE: Under Center
   Posted: 4/18/2017 11:11:51 AM 
This should help make direct snaps to the RB more effective. The last few years, every time the QB moved up and talked to the line we just knew what was coming, and I'm sure the opposition did too. With the QB at the line more as part of the regular game plan, defenses will have to think twice.

We will get by.
We will get by.
We will get by.
We will survive.
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LuckySparrow
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Member Since: 10/15/2012
Location: Illinois
Post Count: 1,750

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  Message Not Read  RE: Under Center
   Posted: 4/18/2017 11:22:02 AM 
Monroe Slavin wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
ytownbobcat wrote:
It seems like a direct snap under center could have been added at any point over the last few years. With our OL being just average the last few years it could have made a difference in many games on 3rd and 1 or 4th and 1.
We pride ourselves on being physical but when we couldn't convert short yardage situations it was a momentum killer.
What is apparent to many fans, took a long time to register with this staff. Most puzzling because we pride ourselves by moving the ball on the ground. This staff could coach direct handoff and pound the ball on the ground in their sleep. What took so long?????


They were waiting for Monroe to reach the 100 post limit on this subject.




I find this 'new' development more annoying than happy-making. What took so stinking long for the coaches to figure this out? Horrible.


I especially like the "There’s some advantages to being under center, especially with the running game" that some of us have been preaching for years.

Sorry. But what this says to me more than anything is "Welcome to a 13th year for this staff of no MACC because the coaching is not sufficient."




+1

We're not exactly splitting the atom here. Under center formations should have already been installed for goaline and short yardage situations. You'd think a run oriented offense like ours would have figured that out somewhere along the way.

What a day at the Convo.....Wow!

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L.C.
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Member Since: 8/31/2005
Location: United States
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  Message Not Read  RE: Under Center
   Posted: 4/18/2017 11:45:39 AM 
The three fumbles when they tried to run it in the scrimmage show that some were correct, particularly Billy the Cat, when he explained why most teams don't do this; it takes a lot of practice to get it right. It is simply one more thing to spend practice time on, that takes away from practice time doing something else.

While anything can be practiced, teams can't do everything. I personally like the Power I, and thus I like seeing this, but I don't consider it to be a "no brainer". What should they give up in it's place? For example, should they cut back on practice of fade passes to practice this? With this added to the practice list, remember that they have to also reduce the practice time dedicated to something else.

For those that think this is a no brainer, what would you have the team practice less?

Last Edited: 4/18/2017 11:53:45 AM by L.C.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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The Optimist
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Location: CLE
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  Message Not Read  RE: Under Center
   Posted: 4/18/2017 1:12:26 PM 
LuckySparrow wrote:
Monroe Slavin wrote:
OhioCatFan wrote:
ytownbobcat wrote:
It seems like a direct snap under center could have been added at any point over the last few years. With our OL being just average the last few years it could have made a difference in many games on 3rd and 1 or 4th and 1.
We pride ourselves on being physical but when we couldn't convert short yardage situations it was a momentum killer.
What is apparent to many fans, took a long time to register with this staff. Most puzzling because we pride ourselves by moving the ball on the ground. This staff could coach direct handoff and pound the ball on the ground in their sleep. What took so long?????


They were waiting for Monroe to reach the 100 post limit on this subject.




I find this 'new' development more annoying than happy-making. What took so stinking long for the coaches to figure this out? Horrible.


I especially like the "There’s some advantages to being under center, especially with the running game" that some of us have been preaching for years.

Sorry. But what this says to me more than anything is "Welcome to a 13th year for this staff of no MACC because the coaching is not sufficient."




+1

We're not exactly splitting the atom here. Under center formations should have already been installed for goaline and short yardage situations. You'd think a run oriented offense like ours would have figured that out somewhere along the way.


"We're not exactly splitting the atom here."

-OUr last MAC Championship was 1968.
-Ohio won 6 games in 1968.
-United States tested like 50 nuclear weapons in 1968.

Splitting atoms is easy compared to winning football games in Athens.


I've seen crazier things happen.

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LuckySparrow
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Member Since: 10/15/2012
Location: Illinois
Post Count: 1,750

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  Message Not Read  RE: Under Center
   Posted: 4/18/2017 6:19:01 PM 
You may be onto something, Optimist.

What a day at the Convo.....Wow!

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LuckySparrow
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Member Since: 10/15/2012
Location: Illinois
Post Count: 1,750

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  Message Not Read  RE: Under Center
   Posted: 4/18/2017 6:29:29 PM 
L.C. wrote:

For those that think this is a no brainer, what would you have the team practice less?


This is a weird perspective to take. They shouldn't do new things that can help the team because they'll have to practice something less? Seems like a fearful way of preparing.


Since we're a run based team, there was simply no excuse not to have plays under center installed. Period.

What a day at the Convo.....Wow!

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L.C.
General User

Member Since: 8/31/2005
Location: United States
Post Count: 10,470

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  Message Not Read  RE: Under Center
   Posted: 4/18/2017 7:23:08 PM 
It's not at all weird. Teams have a finite amount of time they are allowed to practice. Each coach has to make a determination of what things they should practice in order to help the team the most. I don't think anyone disputes that there is a benefit to having plays where the QB goes under center. Based on what we see at other schools, some coaches feel that the cost in practice time is worth the benefit, but most do not.

I don't think it's a "no brain" decision, and the fact that coaches are split on this concurs with that. The only people who are clearly in the wrong here are those that think that it doesn't take significant practice time to have it as a workable alternative. The three fumbles in the scrimmage show what can go wrong if you don't practice it enough.

Last Edited: 4/18/2017 8:54:27 PM by L.C.

“We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus

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OhioCatFan
General User



Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 14,383

Status: Offline
  Message Not Read  RE: Under Center
   Posted: 4/18/2017 10:15:44 PM 
L.C. wrote:
. . .I don't think it's a "no brain" decision, and the fact that coaches are split on this concurs with that. The only people who are clearly in the wrong here are those that think that it doesn't take significant practice time to have it as a workable alternative. The three fumbles in the scrimmage show what can go wrong if you don't practice it enough.


+1

Someone on BA will probably suggest what they should practice less is fumbling! ;-)

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org

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