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I used to call this guy a snake oil salesman. I've now revised my evaluation. I think he gives snake oil salesmen a bad name. I don't believe the players statement, BTW. The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA "It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right." Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org Back to Top L.C. General User Member Since: 8/31/2005 Location: United States Post Count: 10,470 Status: Offline     RE: PJ Fleck NCAA Violation    Posted: 3/8/2017 10:37:19 PM  OhioCatFan wrote: IMHO, this is a microcosm of what's wrong with college football today: ... Which aspect bothers you? The idea that he might recruit former players? Or the idea that a coach can't even wish a former player so much as a "happy birthday" without breaking a rule, and being presumed guilty of something nefarious? “We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus Back to Top OhioCatFan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 14,383 Status: Offline     RE: PJ Fleck NCAA Violation    Posted: 3/8/2017 11:30:38 PM  It's bad enough to "flip" recruits you've recruited for one school to another school. It's legal, but I don't like it. You are recruiting players for your current employer, not building up some kind of "cult of personality." He was at the time in the employment of WMU. It is unsavory, IMHO, for him to then recruit the same guys for his new employer's team. I know it's common, but I think it says all kinds negative things about the state of college athletics. This is no longer collegiate or collegial but cut-throat. The actual violation of NCAA regs was not for the unsavory conduct just mentioned, but for recruiting one of your former players for the team associated with your new employer. That's apparently what Fleck did. I know they are calling this a minor violation, but to me it's emblematic of a much deeper problem. We are talking here about college football, not pro football. These are kids who are planning a college career that includes playing football for the school they've chosen to attend. To have a coach bolt and then take virtually all his recruits with him and at least one player who was already enrolled (the dude who ended our hopes in the MACC) is to me a sign college football has become really no more than a minor league of the NFL. If I were the czar of the NCAA, *both* flipping plays who had signed an LOI with one school to another and recruiting players directly off another school's teams would be major violations. Last Edited: 3/8/2017 11:31:42 PM by OhioCatFan The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA "It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right." Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org Back to Top GoCats105 General User Member Since: 1/31/2006 Location: Seattle, WA Post Count: 7,194 Status: Offline     RE: PJ Fleck NCAA Violation    Posted: 3/9/2017 8:34:33 AM  OhioCatFan wrote: It's bad enough to "flip" recruits you've recruited for one school to another school. It's legal, but I don't like it. You are recruiting players for your current employer, not building up some kind of "cult of personality." He was at the time in the employment of WMU. It is unsavory, IMHO, for him to then recruit the same guys for his new employer's team. I know it's common, but I think it says all kinds negative things about the state of college athletics. This is no longer collegiate or collegial but cut-throat. The actual violation of NCAA regs was not for the unsavory conduct just mentioned, but for recruiting one of your former players for the team associated with your new employer. That's apparently what Fleck did. I know they are calling this a minor violation, but to me it's emblematic of a much deeper problem. We are talking here about college football, not pro football. These are kids who are planning a college career that includes playing football for the school they've chosen to attend. To have a coach bolt and then take virtually all his recruits with him and at least one player who was already enrolled (the dude who ended our hopes in the MACC) is to me a sign college football has become really no more than a minor league of the NFL. If I were the czar of the NCAA, *both* flipping plays who had signed an LOI with one school to another and recruiting players directly off another school's teams would be major violations. This is why Borna always says your kid should sign with the school he loves, not the coach. I think kids are losing sight of that. Back to Top OhioStunter General User Member Since: 2/18/2005 Location: Chicago Post Count: 2,516 Status: Offline     RE: PJ Fleck NCAA Violation    Posted: 3/9/2017 10:08:12 AM  If WMU doesn't want its players to transfer to Minnesota, don't grant them the release. "The St. Paul Pioneer Press first reported the violation, which is thought to involve former Western Michigan star linebacker Robert Spillane, who requested and received a release from the college last week." Back to Top CA Bobcat General User Member Since: 12/22/2004 Location: San Ramon, CA Post Count: 149 Status: Offline     RE: PJ Fleck NCAA Violation    Posted: 3/9/2017 11:18:39 AM  OhioCatFan wrote: It's bad enough to "flip" recruits you've recruited for one school to another school. It's legal, but I don't like it. You are recruiting players for your current employer, not building up some kind of "cult of personality." He was at the time in the employment of WMU. It is unsavory, IMHO, for him to then recruit the same guys for his new employer's team. I know it's common, but I think it says all kinds negative things about the state of college athletics. This is no longer collegiate or collegial but cut-throat. The actual violation of NCAA regs was not for the unsavory conduct just mentioned, but for recruiting one of your former players for the team associated with your new employer. That's apparently what Fleck did. I know they are calling this a minor violation, but to me it's emblematic of a much deeper problem. We are talking here about college football, not pro football. These are kids who are planning a college career that includes playing football for the school they've chosen to attend. To have a coach bolt and then take virtually all his recruits with him and at least one player who was already enrolled (the dude who ended our hopes in the MACC) is to me a sign college football has become really no more than a minor league of the NFL. If I were the czar of the NCAA, *both* flipping plays who had signed an LOI with one school to another and recruiting players directly off another school's teams would be major violations. I worked in NCAA compliance at a DI school for 6 years. The AD's comment about a "minor" violation is laughable. There is no such thing as a minor violation. All violations are called secondary violations unless they rise to the level of a violation that shows lack of institutional control, requiring on campus investigations, etc. The AD is an idiot if he doesn't know that and by using the term "minor", he appears to be downplaying Fleck's actions. That alone tells me Fleck probably contacted the kid. Fleck knew he wasn't allowed to contact any player at another school without a release yet he did it anyhow. Fleck is in over his head at Minnesota. He's a gimmicky, overhyped coach and that works in the lower levels of DI and for a short while at the P5 level, but it won't work at Minnesota. Back to Top L.C. General User Member Since: 8/31/2005 Location: United States Post Count: 10,470 Status: Offline     RE: PJ Fleck NCAA Violation    Posted: 3/9/2017 11:43:14 AM  One thing I would add is that before being a head coach, Fleck was a recruiting coordinator. As such, he had to be very, very familiar with NCAA rules. “We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak.” ― Epictetus Back to Top OhioCatFan General User Member Since: 12/20/2004 Location: Athens, OH Post Count: 14,383 Status: Offline     RE: PJ Fleck NCAA Violation    Posted: 3/9/2017 7:32:37 PM  GoCats105 wrote: This is why Borna always says your kid should sign with the school he loves, not the coach. I think kids are losing sight of that. That's exactly what I'm talking about. This cult of personality that develops around coaches is not healthy for the sport, IMHO. I think Fleck with his off-the-wall style is almost the poster child for this phenomenon. I'm glad to see that there are a few others that agree with me on this. I thought I'd probably be a minority of one. The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA "It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right." Note: My avatar is the national colors of the 78th Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry, which are now preserved in a climate controlled vault at the Ohio History Connection. Learn more about the old 78th at: http://www.78ohio.org Back to Top Showing Replies:   1 - 8  of 8 Posts Jump to Page:   1 View Other 'Ohio Football' Topics                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               WHO'S ONLINE There are 441 Active Visitors on BobcatAttack.com 435 Guests 6 Registered Users:   bobcatsquared, Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame, Bobcat1998, Casper71, MMGrad2022, FJC31 There are no other users looking at this page.

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